Apple's self-service repair is basically malicious compliance. To an extent, I appreciate that they even offer the possibility at all, but despite how good their hardware is, especially my M-series macbooks, I'm getting tired of their user hostility.
My ThinkPad T14, while not macbook quality, is decent enough, and everything is user serviceable, and parts are cheap. Just 7 captive phillips screws and it's open.
I'm also tired of my only choices being either a) enjoy the conveniences of the apple ecosystem and integration but have no ability to self-service my own hardware, or in the case of iOS, run my own software outside of the app store or b) try and hack together some equivalent "ecosystem" using Linux, Android, KDE connect, and various other homegrown scripts and apps but deal with an inferior laptop, inferior smartwatch, and inferior apps.
Consumers are getting screwed over, even those outside of the "ecosystem," by Apple's insistence on not allowing third parties to develop against their protocols (imagine a world where any smartwatch could match the functionality of the Apple watch on iOS, or anyone could create an AirDrop client on any operating system, etc.)
The last time I tried thinkpads, I thought I'd done my research but somehow got one that couldn't use it's wireless card in Debian out of the box (and lacked an ethernet port :/)
Do you have any specific models/lines you'd reccomend? I'm probably just going to throw something XFCE flavored on it and remote into VMs when I need actual processing -- I just need something to do word processing, browsing, maybe watch some videos in VLC.
My Macbook air has great battery life and a nice screen but if anything fails it's a 1k fix -- everything is fused to the motherboard now so when one part fails you have to replace everything
Generally, the newer the hardware, the more you need a more recent kernel which may have been what you ran into with Debian. I've had laptops that worked in Fedora & Arch, but Debian & Ubuntu didn't have a recent enough kernel for the WiFi adapter. If you still have that laptop might be worth it to give it another shot depending on how long ago you tried, Trixie may work on it.
But honestly I'm not someone who's got strong views beyond my controverial view that XFCE style graphics are both artful and functional and that going beyond that is a waste of resource ;)
I'll look around on Craigslist for a used laptop and then run it through thinkwiki.
This was a long time ago BTW. As in, the end of the Bush administration -- but I was in uni and didn't have time to troubleshoot, and then I went into the workforce and as VMs became ubiquitous, I glommed onto MacOS since Apple Stores are great about fixing hardware quickly and software wise, I could beef up my ram and run Debian or Kali or whatever as needed.
(As an aside I've found Parrot more well run than Kali's "try harder" anti-user philosophy in later years)
What exactly do you mean by "not MacBook quality"? Aside from Apple’s M-series chips, I’d take a ThinkPad over a MacBook any day. The T, X, and P series ThinkPads are at least on par with MacBooks in terms of build quality. I will even argue that they are better. And with a ThinkPad, you don’t have to deal with that cold, rigid metal body that MacBooks are known for, and the horribly screens which are like a mirror.
Screen (it's good, I have the 2.8k one), but it's not quite to the level of Apple's (although I definitely prefer the matte over the glossy). It's also not as bright, which does matter to me.
Otherwise, it's mostly nitpicks on my part that don't matter to everyone. The speakers don't remotely hold a candle to the macbook's, nor does the microphone. On mine specifically (5th Gen T14 w/ AMD), the keyboard isn't quite the same as the older thinkpads and I'd rank the Macbook's keyboard better. My last nitpick is battery life.
Not saying the ThinkPad is bad, I like it for what it is, but I still reach for the macbook more when I want to use it as a laptop and not docked into my monitors. It's runs cooler, quieter, better screen, better speakers.
Much of it's going to boil down to personal preferences obviously, however it's very reasonable to argue that the trackpads on Apple laptops are the best in the industry. Generally Apple laptops have great speakers and sound, high quality microphones, with good noise cancelling. The laptop shell is bendy enough to not be brittle, but stiff enough to work even in a lap. Battery life is second to none, keyboard quality is good enough (often better than most PC laptops). Great screen quality, with glossy and matte options.
Their software ecosystem is a more mixed bag, great integration between devices and services, but definitely a walled garden (not 100% a bad thing), and the walls are getting higher (definitely bad).
Apple of today is very consumer and developer hostile, to the point of burning any and all goodwill that they have.
the stiffness of the keyboard deck and entire chassis, even the X series (I used to have an X1 extreme) had significant deflection in the middle of the keyboard deck, poor torsional rigidity, and an ewaste quality display compared to an M1 Pro MBP
The new macbooks can be purchased with an anti reflective coating, works extremely well.
The screen clarity, speakers, and microphone are all better on a mac. That counts as “quality” i think? These are things many users would use daily in zoom meetings for example.
And good luck if you are a heavy trackpad user. The thinkpad trackpad is usable but basically junk as a daily driver. Like most laptops unfortunately.
If I had to buy a non-apple laptop, i’d probably buy a Thinkpad. They’re great machines overall, but i’m picky and they don’t meet my needs in some important areas.
Third-party vendors are selling parts harvested from damaged, used devices. Apple’s prices do seem astronomical, but the comparison isn’t Apple’s to apples.
Apple's self-service repair is basically malicious compliance. To an extent, I appreciate that they even offer the possibility at all, but despite how good their hardware is, especially my M-series macbooks, I'm getting tired of their user hostility.
My ThinkPad T14, while not macbook quality, is decent enough, and everything is user serviceable, and parts are cheap. Just 7 captive phillips screws and it's open.
I'm also tired of my only choices being either a) enjoy the conveniences of the apple ecosystem and integration but have no ability to self-service my own hardware, or in the case of iOS, run my own software outside of the app store or b) try and hack together some equivalent "ecosystem" using Linux, Android, KDE connect, and various other homegrown scripts and apps but deal with an inferior laptop, inferior smartwatch, and inferior apps.
Consumers are getting screwed over, even those outside of the "ecosystem," by Apple's insistence on not allowing third parties to develop against their protocols (imagine a world where any smartwatch could match the functionality of the Apple watch on iOS, or anyone could create an AirDrop client on any operating system, etc.)
The last time I tried thinkpads, I thought I'd done my research but somehow got one that couldn't use it's wireless card in Debian out of the box (and lacked an ethernet port :/)
Do you have any specific models/lines you'd reccomend? I'm probably just going to throw something XFCE flavored on it and remote into VMs when I need actual processing -- I just need something to do word processing, browsing, maybe watch some videos in VLC.
My Macbook air has great battery life and a nice screen but if anything fails it's a 1k fix -- everything is fused to the motherboard now so when one part fails you have to replace everything
> Do you have any specific models/lines you'd reccomend?
My current thinkpad is a T14 5th gen w/ AMD, and everything worked OOTB with both Ubuntu and Fedora.
You can always double check particular models/configurations on ThinkWiki(https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki), or Ubuntu certifications (https://ubuntu.com/certified/laptops?q=&limit=120&vendor=Len...) or RedHat's equivalent(https://catalog.redhat.com/en/search?searchType=Hardware&par...)
Generally, the newer the hardware, the more you need a more recent kernel which may have been what you ran into with Debian. I've had laptops that worked in Fedora & Arch, but Debian & Ubuntu didn't have a recent enough kernel for the WiFi adapter. If you still have that laptop might be worth it to give it another shot depending on how long ago you tried, Trixie may work on it.
Thanks, I think the thinkwiki is a link I didn't have last time I looked into this.
I'm more a fan of debian than ubuntu due to the advertising things they've done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu#System_terminal_adverti...
But honestly I'm not someone who's got strong views beyond my controverial view that XFCE style graphics are both artful and functional and that going beyond that is a waste of resource ;)
I'll look around on Craigslist for a used laptop and then run it through thinkwiki.
This was a long time ago BTW. As in, the end of the Bush administration -- but I was in uni and didn't have time to troubleshoot, and then I went into the workforce and as VMs became ubiquitous, I glommed onto MacOS since Apple Stores are great about fixing hardware quickly and software wise, I could beef up my ram and run Debian or Kali or whatever as needed.
(As an aside I've found Parrot more well run than Kali's "try harder" anti-user philosophy in later years)
DELL XPS
>DELL XPS
I'LL LOOK INTO IT
I felt the same and moved from being a long time mac user to a framework - thinkpads were enticing too.
What exactly do you mean by "not MacBook quality"? Aside from Apple’s M-series chips, I’d take a ThinkPad over a MacBook any day. The T, X, and P series ThinkPads are at least on par with MacBooks in terms of build quality. I will even argue that they are better. And with a ThinkPad, you don’t have to deal with that cold, rigid metal body that MacBooks are known for, and the horribly screens which are like a mirror.
Screen (it's good, I have the 2.8k one), but it's not quite to the level of Apple's (although I definitely prefer the matte over the glossy). It's also not as bright, which does matter to me.
Otherwise, it's mostly nitpicks on my part that don't matter to everyone. The speakers don't remotely hold a candle to the macbook's, nor does the microphone. On mine specifically (5th Gen T14 w/ AMD), the keyboard isn't quite the same as the older thinkpads and I'd rank the Macbook's keyboard better. My last nitpick is battery life.
Not saying the ThinkPad is bad, I like it for what it is, but I still reach for the macbook more when I want to use it as a laptop and not docked into my monitors. It's runs cooler, quieter, better screen, better speakers.
Much of it's going to boil down to personal preferences obviously, however it's very reasonable to argue that the trackpads on Apple laptops are the best in the industry. Generally Apple laptops have great speakers and sound, high quality microphones, with good noise cancelling. The laptop shell is bendy enough to not be brittle, but stiff enough to work even in a lap. Battery life is second to none, keyboard quality is good enough (often better than most PC laptops). Great screen quality, with glossy and matte options.
Their software ecosystem is a more mixed bag, great integration between devices and services, but definitely a walled garden (not 100% a bad thing), and the walls are getting higher (definitely bad).
Apple of today is very consumer and developer hostile, to the point of burning any and all goodwill that they have.
the stiffness of the keyboard deck and entire chassis, even the X series (I used to have an X1 extreme) had significant deflection in the middle of the keyboard deck, poor torsional rigidity, and an ewaste quality display compared to an M1 Pro MBP
The new macbooks can be purchased with an anti reflective coating, works extremely well.
The screen clarity, speakers, and microphone are all better on a mac. That counts as “quality” i think? These are things many users would use daily in zoom meetings for example.
And good luck if you are a heavy trackpad user. The thinkpad trackpad is usable but basically junk as a daily driver. Like most laptops unfortunately.
If I had to buy a non-apple laptop, i’d probably buy a Thinkpad. They’re great machines overall, but i’m picky and they don’t meet my needs in some important areas.
Third-party vendors are selling parts harvested from damaged, used devices. Apple’s prices do seem astronomical, but the comparison isn’t Apple’s to apples.
Also, how do these prices compare to what Apple charges for an out of warranty repair? If it’s the same, there’s no story. https://www.simplymac.com/ipad/how-much-does-it-cost-to-fix-...
> ...more than a third of the iPad parts Apple is now selling are not being sold at a price that is economically viable for independent repair shops.
It's hard to sympathize. It's right-to-repair, not right-to-a-sustainable-business-model.
$250 for a charge port? That is nuts. So much for sustainable practices...