This is a different Beeper. I don't want a personal CRM, I know everyone in my Beeper chats well enough that I don't need a sidebar to prompt me about where they live. Conversely, I need Signal and Facebook Messenger because that's where my loved ones are.
However I can absolutely see that some people would want this. CRM for email is a solved problem and many professionals use CRM tools, but it doesn't exist in the same way for chat, and maybe it should (although email feels like the bigger market). This is probably in desperate need for a LinkedIn connection though.
My advice to the Amber team: is this for work or personal use? Pick one, make it great for that, and don't try to force it to be the other.
These tools always fall short, not because the teams making them are bad, but because the underlying chat tools they build on are adversarial to the idea of a third-party UI replacing their UI. A new entrant might escape their ire for a while, of course.
Cool, I like to see more innovation in this space.
You obviously have different needs than what Beeper provides, but claiming it's better when you only support a fraction of the networks is a bit steep imo.
Curious what other networks you plan to support and what are your monetization plans?
I really like the addition of folders and CRM features compared to Beeper.
The networks I'm interested in are Telegram (you already got that), Signal, Instagram, Matrix, Threema, Slack and Teams (in that order).
Me too. Even if a lot of the innovation is what we already had with pidgin or trillian years ago. but i love that the walled gardens get torn down a bit. More, please.
AI feeding into a "private" database, so after the keylogger sends everything to OpenAI you can have a garbage summary!
Or if it uses a local model, enjoy the warmth and sound of your GPU while it consumes all of your system resources for instant messaging on, well, as you put it, three random services
> However, you can turn off the AI features if you're into full privacy. :)
I think marketing for AI should always start off with "Includes opt-in AI features should you want them" instead of just "HEY WE HAVE AI" I feel like it would make a lot of people close the browser tab much later than expected.
I'm one who loves some of the AI stuff after being a skeptic, but I see a LOT of immediate hatred for it, sadly even when it is purely opt-in (as it should be tbh).
Also the fact is that I don't need AI included into this software.
Its nice that it never touches your server but beeper is also moving forward in that direction and beeper is also open source and uses the matrix protocol so you can actually be free to use any matrix clients.
What about yours? As someone who uses beeper for talking with insta chats with my friends, I have no regrets picking beeper.
> Also the fact is that I don't need AI included into this software.
Yup, the fact that every new service now is AI-first is troubling... it's literally the first thing said about Amber when going on their website. My tab says "Amber — AI-enabled all-in-on...". It's like the only thing they want you to know about their service.
Screenshots and gifs or something like your Loom, you need a little trailer thing that showcases the app, and its top use cases with minimal noise (minimal chat windows for demo purposes). Heck, start with a few messages, then flood in, and showcase how it helps to keep you organized, that sort of thing.
> All messages are end-to-end encrypted and go straight from your device to the network of choice – never touching our servers.
Just because the messages themselves aren't proxied doesn't mean a service can't steal the content on the end device. I'm obviously not saying you _are_ doing that, but the trust issue is my biggest issue here.
Are there any open source clients for this out there? Also, if someone were to build that, what are the protocols one would even use to get these things talking to each other and reconciling the different accounts quirks
at least from talking to Eric at a meetup, I think some are still on remote implementations. I know texts definitely needs to do the iMessage implementation locally, but they're moving everything client-side, which to me as a thunderbird user, makes the most sense. I just wish we could have something like libpurple again that would allow me to finally get back to the everything-in-one-app paradigm
Besides Beeper, the only consumer bridge hosting service I'm aware of is Element One, but it's only barely maintained, so I'd definitely recommend self-hosting over that.
* What/how are you handling the different customer protection laws? What juristictions are you working in? Where's the data hosted?
* Where's the design description?
* What encryption are you actually using? If you rolled your own, then well.. good luck.
* How could you ensure end-to-end encryption over multiple protocols, without either completely reverse engineering said protocols? If your answer here would be that you're using a central server where messages get passed between services (and thus decrypted), it isn't end-to-end.
The site is also very flaky. Sometimes it loads, sometimes it doesn't.
There are so many questions, and zero answers.
- Yep. You can read our privacy policy here: https://dimadolgopolovn.notion.site/Amber-Privacy-Policy-256...
- Check out the demo in the original post.
- We use native API or reverse-engineer a solution depending on the platform. This approach maintains the security standard as high as the original app. Everything is done locally on your computer.
In context of instant messaging E2EE usually means that service providers servers don't ever see the plaintext with messages stored on device. Just the transport encryption is already an expectation for all networking.
could you please link to stuff like the demo and the privacy policy on the site? i only found this thread by chance and would have missed it otherwise ^^;
Something is weird about the javascript or CSS on the site. When I first scroll down, many things didn't animate and didn't show. When I scroll up and then scroll back down again, then they animated in.
i have never seen a messenger app made by anyone that was capable of migrating all the existing users and their chats from another platform instantly. the day someone makes this, its gonna get traction by a mile compared to anything else out there. imagine clicking "import from messenger" and boom all users and chats from messenger added and clicking "import from whatsapp", "import from wechat" you get the idea
I'm most interested in the CRM. I'm a Linux and Android user, so there's currently nothing for me to try, but a page dedicated to the CRM features might get my email address on your mailing list.
Monica CRM is one too, it sits abandoned on my still powered on raspi zero w because I don't have a queue habit set up to cause me to go check it, but it was nice as a digital personal Rolodex with more automation than just contacts app that's barely more than a vcard
"better Beeper"
This is a different Beeper. I don't want a personal CRM, I know everyone in my Beeper chats well enough that I don't need a sidebar to prompt me about where they live. Conversely, I need Signal and Facebook Messenger because that's where my loved ones are.
However I can absolutely see that some people would want this. CRM for email is a solved problem and many professionals use CRM tools, but it doesn't exist in the same way for chat, and maybe it should (although email feels like the bigger market). This is probably in desperate need for a LinkedIn connection though.
My advice to the Amber team: is this for work or personal use? Pick one, make it great for that, and don't try to force it to be the other.
Anything is automatically better than Beeper
great point
These tools always fall short, not because the teams making them are bad, but because the underlying chat tools they build on are adversarial to the idea of a third-party UI replacing their UI. A new entrant might escape their ire for a while, of course.
Cool, I like to see more innovation in this space.
You obviously have different needs than what Beeper provides, but claiming it's better when you only support a fraction of the networks is a bit steep imo.
Curious what other networks you plan to support and what are your monetization plans?
I really like the addition of folders and CRM features compared to Beeper.
The networks I'm interested in are Telegram (you already got that), Signal, Instagram, Matrix, Threema, Slack and Teams (in that order).
Me too. Even if a lot of the innovation is what we already had with pidgin or trillian years ago. but i love that the walled gardens get torn down a bit. More, please.
Not what I want to see from the homepage for an app that wants to read all of my messages.
> Secure Connection Failed
> An error occurred during a connection to useamber.app. PR_CONNECT_RESET_ERROR
Are you on a work computer/network? Your IT department may be blocking things as mine is
lmao
Seems like a DNS issue. Are you using VPN? We used Framer to host the site.
The Framer team wonders if you continue experiencing the same issue if you use a different browser. Hope this is helpful.
Three random services only, and "AI" for some reasons...
Pidgin at least supports service plugins and many more protocols, and doesn't have AI, which is a big plus when we're talking about private messaging.
AI feeding into a "private" database, so after the keylogger sends everything to OpenAI you can have a garbage summary!
Or if it uses a local model, enjoy the warmth and sound of your GPU while it consumes all of your system resources for instant messaging on, well, as you put it, three random services
but you know he tried Beeper!!!
Our users (including top founders and VCs) usually trust us with the AI features because it saves time and thinking.
However, you can turn off the AI features if you're into full privacy. :)
> However, you can turn off the AI features if you're into full privacy. :)
I think marketing for AI should always start off with "Includes opt-in AI features should you want them" instead of just "HEY WE HAVE AI" I feel like it would make a lot of people close the browser tab much later than expected.
great point
I'm one who loves some of the AI stuff after being a skeptic, but I see a LOT of immediate hatred for it, sadly even when it is purely opt-in (as it should be tbh).
> Our users (including top founders and VCs) usually trust us with the AI features because it saves time and thinking.
I like to think myself, not have AI do it for me ;)
This is super cool, but unfortunately has to be open source and with signed reproducible builds.
You can only sign in by using Google? This sounds really phishy to me.
Why?
lol yes 100%
If it's not open source it's a trap.
You write all messages multiple times, them clarify it's only 3 services. Stop that. If it doesn't support everything mainstream, don't claim "all".
I think beeper does have folders right?
Also the fact is that I don't need AI included into this software.
Its nice that it never touches your server but beeper is also moving forward in that direction and beeper is also open source and uses the matrix protocol so you can actually be free to use any matrix clients.
What about yours? As someone who uses beeper for talking with insta chats with my friends, I have no regrets picking beeper.
> Also the fact is that I don't need AI included into this software.
Yup, the fact that every new service now is AI-first is troubling... it's literally the first thing said about Amber when going on their website. My tab says "Amber — AI-enabled all-in-on...". It's like the only thing they want you to know about their service.
I don't think Beeper is Open Source. They published some of their bridges, but the client is closed source afaik.
You need screenshots on the front page. Put one front and center next to your hero text so it's right there above the fold.
Great thought! We're fixing this right now.
Screenshots and gifs or something like your Loom, you need a little trailer thing that showcases the app, and its top use cases with minimal noise (minimal chat windows for demo purposes). Heck, start with a few messages, then flood in, and showcase how it helps to keep you organized, that sort of thing.
Yes, pictures of the user interface will help a lot. Thanks!
Best of luck on your work, it does look solid!
> All messages are end-to-end encrypted and go straight from your device to the network of choice – never touching our servers.
Just because the messages themselves aren't proxied doesn't mean a service can't steal the content on the end device. I'm obviously not saying you _are_ doing that, but the trust issue is my biggest issue here.
as much as i want something like this to exist... fool me once, shame on thee; fool me twice, shame on me
with that being said, good luck!
thanks
Are there any open source clients for this out there? Also, if someone were to build that, what are the protocols one would even use to get these things talking to each other and reconciling the different accounts quirks
I think most of these are built using Matrix: https://matrix.org. They have connections with most providers like iMessage, FB, Instagram, etc
I don't think they use that anymore though? From what I've heard it all happens locally now with a proprietary solution.
Interesting, i'd be curious to learn more. It's been awhile since I looked into Beeper/Texts type apps.
at least from talking to Eric at a meetup, I think some are still on remote implementations. I know texts definitely needs to do the iMessage implementation locally, but they're moving everything client-side, which to me as a thunderbird user, makes the most sense. I just wish we could have something like libpurple again that would allow me to finally get back to the everything-in-one-app paradigm
ok is there an "open source beeper" that has emerged that i can play with? cant use amber because closed source
The bridges made for Beeper are all open source (https://github.com/mautrix/), so you can set up your own Matrix server with bridges and use any open source Matrix client (https://matrix.org/ecosystem/clients/).
Besides Beeper, the only consumer bridge hosting service I'm aware of is Element One, but it's only barely maintained, so I'd definitely recommend self-hosting over that.
Before I would even consider something like this:
* Where's your privacy policy?
* What/how are you handling the different customer protection laws? What juristictions are you working in? Where's the data hosted?
* Where's the design description?
* What encryption are you actually using? If you rolled your own, then well.. good luck.
* How could you ensure end-to-end encryption over multiple protocols, without either completely reverse engineering said protocols? If your answer here would be that you're using a central server where messages get passed between services (and thus decrypted), it isn't end-to-end.
The site is also very flaky. Sometimes it loads, sometimes it doesn't. There are so many questions, and zero answers.
- Yep. You can read our privacy policy here: https://dimadolgopolovn.notion.site/Amber-Privacy-Policy-256... - Check out the demo in the original post. - We use native API or reverse-engineer a solution depending on the platform. This approach maintains the security standard as high as the original app. Everything is done locally on your computer.
At that point calling it end-to-end encrypted is not true.
What definition of "end-to-end encrypted" do you refer to, if on-device processing does not qualify? Isn't your device one of the endpoints in E2EE?
In context of instant messaging E2EE usually means that service providers servers don't ever see the plaintext with messages stored on device. Just the transport encryption is already an expectation for all networking.
- Signal: E2EE
- Telegram: by default, nah
- Discord, nah
Can you elaborate where you think it stops being encrypted?
could you please link to stuff like the demo and the privacy policy on the site? i only found this thread by chance and would have missed it otherwise ^^;
> The site is also very flaky. Sometimes it loads, sometimes it doesn't.
That's probably the HN front page effect to be fair.
Something is weird about the javascript or CSS on the site. When I first scroll down, many things didn't animate and didn't show. When I scroll up and then scroll back down again, then they animated in.
What browser are you using?
I tested on macOS Safari.
i have never seen a messenger app made by anyone that was capable of migrating all the existing users and their chats from another platform instantly. the day someone makes this, its gonna get traction by a mile compared to anything else out there. imagine clicking "import from messenger" and boom all users and chats from messenger added and clicking "import from whatsapp", "import from wechat" you get the idea
you should try the app :)
I've been using BlueBubbles because the only thing I needed Beeper for is to get iMessage working on windows and linux.
Doesn’t phonelink support that on windows?
Google only login :(.
A deal-breaker for me and others.
We're working on it
Light mode and Apple font please
on the roadmap!
I'm most interested in the CRM. I'm a Linux and Android user, so there's currently nothing for me to try, but a page dedicated to the CRM features might get my email address on your mailing list.
Good luck!
Thanks for the feedback
Cool product! I'd love to see a more refined personal CRM. Right now, it's a hit and miss with contacts on Apple.
Is your AI implementation on device only or is it making use of a 3rd party service (OpenAI, Anthropic, Google etc.)?
We use OpenAI models, and the data is never stored on our servers. The features are, however, fully optional.
This does conflict with the premise "All messages are end-to-end encrypted and go straight from your device to the network of choice".
All AI features are _optional_. :)
Would love you to add Signal, as well as DMs in Instagram, Twitter, Bluesky, LinkedIn.
Does this support every feature of the messengers you support?
if you can make the UI/UX of this better than messages, whatsapps, etc combined, then I'd be willing to pay money for it.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the app! Feel free to reach out to me directly if you encounter any issues. dima@perillalabs.com
How are you supporting iMessage? What method?
Niceeee
Mac only.
Working on it
Looks neat, I'm a little concerned about your iMessage support, is this even allowed by Apple? You might find some resistance on that front.
Resistance is futile
Good job bro
>Personal CRM
Interesting to hear I'm not the only one who's found the need to write something like this.
It's a market! Kindest seems to have staying power: https://www.kindestapp.com
I first thought to share Clay (https://clay.earth) but I see they were acquired by Automattic recently.
Monica CRM is one too, it sits abandoned on my still powered on raspi zero w because I don't have a queue habit set up to cause me to go check it, but it was nice as a digital personal Rolodex with more automation than just contacts app that's barely more than a vcard
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