I love the attention to detail in this post. I've thought about picking up one of those Vortex86 based ITX boards like the ITX-Llama [1] since you get the joy of running on real hardware but don't have to worry about tracking down a soundblaster card, network cards, etc. Assuming that they ever come back in stock that is.
Honest question: Will building a high-end PC still be a thing in 10 years? I've built all of mine in the last 20 years. Just finished my first AMD build. But I don't think it'll be possible or allowed after a few more CPU iterations. Sure, you'll be able to do builds with the CPU tech available up to when it stops, but I seriously doubt that the cutting-edge chip tech ten years hence will be available to hobbyists. Tell me why I'm wrong.
I think this hinges on what one considers "cutting edge CPU tech". Is it "newer and better CPU tech than before" or "the highest end CPU tech of the particular day".
If the latter ("the highest end CPU tech of the particular day"), I think it's going to keep getting harder and harder, with more top end options like the M4 Max being "prebuilt only", but I don't think it'll go to 0 options in as short as 10 years from now.
If the former ("newer and better CPU tech than before") I think it'll last even longer than the above, if not indefinitely, just because technology will likely continue to grow consistently enough that even serving a small niche better than before will always eventually be a reasonable target market despite what is considered mainstream.
One possible reason: to achieve the performance improvements, we are seeing more integrated and soldered-together stuff, limiting later upgrades. The Framework Desktop from the modular, user-upgradeable laptop company, has soldered-on memory because they had to "choose two" between memory bus performance, system stability, and user-replaceable memory modules.
If the product succeeds and the market starts saying that this is acceptable for desktops, I could see more and more systems going that way to get either maximum performance (in workstations) or space/power optimisation (e.g. N100-based systems). Then other manufacturers not optimising for either of these things might start shipping soldered-together systems just to get the BoM costs down.
That’s a laptop. It’s soldered for space constraints.
There are high speed memory module form factors. It just adds thickness, cost, expense, and they’re not widely available yet.
Most use cases need the high speed RAM attached to the GPU, though. Desktop CPUs are still on 2-channel memory and it’s fine. Server configs go to 12-channel or more, but desktop hasn’t even begun to crack the higher bandwidth because it’s not all that useful compared to spending the money on a GPU that will blow the CPU away anyway.
The only market for desktops is gaming. Hence nvidia will just slap a cpu on their board and use the unified memory model to sell you an all in one solution. Essentially a desktop console.
Maybe some modularization will survive for slow storage. But other than that demand for modular desktops is dead.
Cases will probably survive since gamers love flashy rigs.
There is still lot of productivity stuff that benefits from power of desktops. Engineering (Ansys etc), local AI development, 3D modeling, working with large C++/Rust codebases, scientific computing, etc etc. And related to gaming there is of course the huge game developer market too. There is a reason why nvidia and amd still make workstation class GPUs for big bucks.
There are a handful of professional uses for a workstation that are hard to beat with a laptop.
If you're compiling code, you generally want as much concurrency as you can get, as well as great single core speed when the task parallelism runs out. There aren't really any laptops with high core counts, and even when you have something with horsepower, you run into thermal limits. You can try and make do with remoting into a machine with more cores, but then you're not really using your laptop, it might as well be a Chromebook.
I always really liked the handle on my old upgraded lenovo E73. It made it much easier to transport when going to university and back for the holidays, and I'm sad that most cases don't have one. Even a hinged one that sits flat to the top of the case when folded down would be awesome
It's much less important for VGA games than for console games. Most used 320x200 resolution, which was line-doubled to 320x400 then displayed on a monitor capable of at least 640x480, so you had distinct and moderately sharp pixels. The monitor was natively progressive scan, so you didn't get the exaggerated spacing between scan lines that you got on consoles using non-standard field timing to force 240p on a 480i TV. And the refresh rate at this resolution was 70Hz, but very few games ran at 70fps, so you lost most of the benefit of the low persistence of CRTs.
oh man, what a trip down memory lane. i started building PCs in college with 386/486s and last year rebuilt my silly custom loop watercooled workstation. :)
and yes: the supplied pc docs back then >>>>>>>> supplied pc docs today
My first "PC" was a Sinclair ZX80. I got my soldering iron out.
Much later on (1986ish) my Dad bought a Commodore 64, unfortunately he plugged the power lead into the video socket, when me and my brother arrived home for Chrimbo. Dad got it repaired and it served us very well for several years.
I still have that C64 and it was repaired again a few years ago (re-capped). It now has a USB interface etc. I also have an original Quickshot II joystick and it still works fine.
My first "real" PC was a 80286 based thing. A maths co pro (80287) was a Chrimbo prezzie too and costed something like £110. It had a whole 1MB RAM and the co processor enabled me to run a dodgy copy of AutoCAD. Yes, AutoCAD used to run in 1MB of RAM! The next version needed something mad like 32MB minimum.
>Joystic port or MIDI port? Back in the days I only ever thought of the DA-15 as the Game port[1]. To me it was only meant to welcome a joystick and play flight simulators. Little did I know that it could also be used as an output to send MIDI commands to a MPU 401-UART!
With no latency of course because USB hadn't been invented yet.
>My SC-55ST came without a power supply. That was the opportunity to understand better the power requirement marking on the back. Voltage and Amperage are obvious but one must also pay attention to the polarity sign. The SC-55ST uses a negative center[7].
This is the "standard" for guitar effects pedals due to the ordinary switching power socket component on their PCB. The outer connector of the barrel jack does the switching by pushing the conductor away from the internal battery pole and over to the external supply when it is plugged in. This would switch the same way physically whether it was positive or negative, except these are often very sensitive or high-gain audio circuits and every bit of earth ground integrity can be essential for the metal enclosures and coaxial cables to shield the inner audio signal properly.
This SC-55ST may not have an internal 9V battery like a guitar pedal would have, but it was designed to run on a Roland "Boss" A/C adapter anyway which is the top shelf wall wart having highly regulated clean power for studio use. Roland set the standard for center ground with their Boss pedals and adapters which basically steamrolled everyone else. Since for this application it's not the power supply that's using any shielding at all, but the audio needs as much shielding as it can get.
MiSTer has been a huge boon for me in terms of saving space and having access to old computers. I have it in an old pizza box case and connected to my old IBM CRT monitor.
I have a modern mouse and mechanical keyboard, but I tried to make everything as beige as possible...
I love the attention to detail in this post. I've thought about picking up one of those Vortex86 based ITX boards like the ITX-Llama [1] since you get the joy of running on real hardware but don't have to worry about tracking down a soundblaster card, network cards, etc. Assuming that they ever come back in stock that is.
[1] https://retrodreams.ca/products/itx-llama-mainboard
Honest question: Will building a high-end PC still be a thing in 10 years? I've built all of mine in the last 20 years. Just finished my first AMD build. But I don't think it'll be possible or allowed after a few more CPU iterations. Sure, you'll be able to do builds with the CPU tech available up to when it stops, but I seriously doubt that the cutting-edge chip tech ten years hence will be available to hobbyists. Tell me why I'm wrong.
I think this hinges on what one considers "cutting edge CPU tech". Is it "newer and better CPU tech than before" or "the highest end CPU tech of the particular day".
If the latter ("the highest end CPU tech of the particular day"), I think it's going to keep getting harder and harder, with more top end options like the M4 Max being "prebuilt only", but I don't think it'll go to 0 options in as short as 10 years from now.
If the former ("newer and better CPU tech than before") I think it'll last even longer than the above, if not indefinitely, just because technology will likely continue to grow consistently enough that even serving a small niche better than before will always eventually be a reasonable target market despite what is considered mainstream.
no, you tell us why you think the next ten years are going to be different than the last thirty
One possible reason: to achieve the performance improvements, we are seeing more integrated and soldered-together stuff, limiting later upgrades. The Framework Desktop from the modular, user-upgradeable laptop company, has soldered-on memory because they had to "choose two" between memory bus performance, system stability, and user-replaceable memory modules.
If the product succeeds and the market starts saying that this is acceptable for desktops, I could see more and more systems going that way to get either maximum performance (in workstations) or space/power optimisation (e.g. N100-based systems). Then other manufacturers not optimising for either of these things might start shipping soldered-together systems just to get the BoM costs down.
That’s a laptop. It’s soldered for space constraints.
There are high speed memory module form factors. It just adds thickness, cost, expense, and they’re not widely available yet.
Most use cases need the high speed RAM attached to the GPU, though. Desktop CPUs are still on 2-channel memory and it’s fine. Server configs go to 12-channel or more, but desktop hasn’t even begun to crack the higher bandwidth because it’s not all that useful compared to spending the money on a GPU that will blow the CPU away anyway.
I'm pretty sure the "Framework Desktop" is a desktop, not a laptop.
The Framework Desktop is not a laptop. The clue is in the name...
https://frame.work/gb/en/desktop
The only market for desktops is gaming. Hence nvidia will just slap a cpu on their board and use the unified memory model to sell you an all in one solution. Essentially a desktop console.
Maybe some modularization will survive for slow storage. But other than that demand for modular desktops is dead.
Cases will probably survive since gamers love flashy rigs.
There is still lot of productivity stuff that benefits from power of desktops. Engineering (Ansys etc), local AI development, 3D modeling, working with large C++/Rust codebases, scientific computing, etc etc. And related to gaming there is of course the huge game developer market too. There is a reason why nvidia and amd still make workstation class GPUs for big bucks.
There are a handful of professional uses for a workstation that are hard to beat with a laptop.
If you're compiling code, you generally want as much concurrency as you can get, as well as great single core speed when the task parallelism runs out. There aren't really any laptops with high core counts, and even when you have something with horsepower, you run into thermal limits. You can try and make do with remoting into a machine with more cores, but then you're not really using your laptop, it might as well be a Chromebook.
If the processor comes with builtin GPU, NPU and RAM will you be really building the system
Sure. Building a PC already is barely building anything. You buy a handful of components and click them into each other.
Yes, as that's already the case with phones. There is more to a phone than the SOC.
Who builds phones?
Past threads
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44021824 May, 2025 (86 comments)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44023088 May, 2025 (0 comment)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44026363 May, 2025 (1 comment)
I have been wanting to do this with 2000s era Athlon system
I always really liked the handle on my old upgraded lenovo E73. It made it much easier to transport when going to university and back for the holidays, and I'm sad that most cases don't have one. Even a hinged one that sits flat to the top of the case when folded down would be awesome
Typing this on a very old Model M keyboard :)
This is nice, but without a CRT monitor (he's using an IPS) it's not quite the real thing regarding the actual on-screen experience.
It's much less important for VGA games than for console games. Most used 320x200 resolution, which was line-doubled to 320x400 then displayed on a monitor capable of at least 640x480, so you had distinct and moderately sharp pixels. The monitor was natively progressive scan, so you didn't get the exaggerated spacing between scan lines that you got on consoles using non-standard field timing to force 240p on a 480i TV. And the refresh rate at this resolution was 70Hz, but very few games ran at 70fps, so you lost most of the benefit of the low persistence of CRTs.
my childhood dreams include gravis ultrasound
Or Roland MT-32. That was the dream.
I lived that dream, and it was good.
oh man, what a trip down memory lane. i started building PCs in college with 386/486s and last year rebuilt my silly custom loop watercooled workstation. :)
and yes: the supplied pc docs back then >>>>>>>> supplied pc docs today
Were they 80486 or i486 8) SX or DX?
My first "PC" was a Sinclair ZX80. I got my soldering iron out.
Much later on (1986ish) my Dad bought a Commodore 64, unfortunately he plugged the power lead into the video socket, when me and my brother arrived home for Chrimbo. Dad got it repaired and it served us very well for several years.
I still have that C64 and it was repaired again a few years ago (re-capped). It now has a USB interface etc. I also have an original Quickshot II joystick and it still works fine.
My first "real" PC was a 80286 based thing. A maths co pro (80287) was a Chrimbo prezzie too and costed something like £110. It had a whole 1MB RAM and the co processor enabled me to run a dodgy copy of AutoCAD. Yes, AutoCAD used to run in 1MB of RAM! The next version needed something mad like 32MB minimum.
Most of what I know about maintaining and assembling computers I learned from the pictures on my Aptiva manual when I was a kid.z
Ah, this is the perfect machine to replicate John Carmack’s work. It’s not a NEXT but is pretty strong to do development on.
>Joystic port or MIDI port? Back in the days I only ever thought of the DA-15 as the Game port[1]. To me it was only meant to welcome a joystick and play flight simulators. Little did I know that it could also be used as an output to send MIDI commands to a MPU 401-UART!
With no latency of course because USB hadn't been invented yet.
>My SC-55ST came without a power supply. That was the opportunity to understand better the power requirement marking on the back. Voltage and Amperage are obvious but one must also pay attention to the polarity sign. The SC-55ST uses a negative center[7].
This is the "standard" for guitar effects pedals due to the ordinary switching power socket component on their PCB. The outer connector of the barrel jack does the switching by pushing the conductor away from the internal battery pole and over to the external supply when it is plugged in. This would switch the same way physically whether it was positive or negative, except these are often very sensitive or high-gain audio circuits and every bit of earth ground integrity can be essential for the metal enclosures and coaxial cables to shield the inner audio signal properly.
This SC-55ST may not have an internal 9V battery like a guitar pedal would have, but it was designed to run on a Roland "Boss" A/C adapter anyway which is the top shelf wall wart having highly regulated clean power for studio use. Roland set the standard for center ground with their Boss pedals and adapters which basically steamrolled everyone else. Since for this application it's not the power supply that's using any shielding at all, but the audio needs as much shielding as it can get.
The rise of retro computing and gaming is wonderful thing.
MiSTer has been a huge boon for me in terms of saving space and having access to old computers. I have it in an old pizza box case and connected to my old IBM CRT monitor.
I have a modern mouse and mechanical keyboard, but I tried to make everything as beige as possible...
wow, this whole blog is a treasure!
I just finished building a water cooled Threadripper 9980X machine today (you can go see it on reddit in r/watercooling or r/threadripper.
My first ever build was a 386 though.
What fond memories.