It's been a slow tightening of financial transfers in Vietnam.
Not that long ago, it was all cash. Then bank transfers became more common, but it was the wild west compared to the US. You could transfer billions in VND (millions in USD) from whatever account to whatever account - nobody was keeping track. Whether a legitimate payment or a bribe, it was fine.
Then identifies were tightly linked to accounts, starting with national ID numbers and now including facial recognition. Everyone needed to get register or lose access to your bank account (you still owned it, but no online transactions allowed).
The government also put in a new law that requires transfers over a certain amount will now need to be reported as to their purpose or else they'll be considered income and taxed.
In no time Vietnam has gone from wild west to more restrictive than the West!
As a foreigner with a beard living in Vietnam, the facial recognition is an absolute pain. It took me an hour of sitting in a bank with the staff taking photos of me over and over, then whenever I need to do a facial recognition scan in the app (thankfully just for large transactions) it's a complete crapshoot as to whether it'll work.
Of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg regards to problems of banking in Vietnam as a foreigner, and it seems to be getting worse and worse.
I think its only the US that's an outlier in the west.
Here in the Netherlands your biometrics are registered with your ID card. Anyone that has gotten a new dutch ID card pretty much had to scan their fingerprints. Your bank account is also linked to your ID card etc. Reporting of big amounts is also standard practice in the west Europe. Know people that had to work on those system.
Also you don't want foreign money being able to transact freely its a disaster recipe to get regime change going. Especially a country like Vietnam that could be used as a battering ram against China. Which makes it a prime target for western NGOs.
What gave you the idea they are foreign? On the contrary, it's relatively hard to open a bank in Vietnam as a foreigner.
This is because Vietnam is in the process of a massive modernization of their banking and tax system. They introduced biometric ids for citizens a few years ago, then around a year ago they required everyone with a bank account to link it with their id.
These are the bank accounts that didn't get linked. I'm sure a big chunk of them are just people's old barely used accounts that they couldn't be bothered going into a bank and registering.
It’s not easy to open a bank account in Vietnam even before these changes. Typically you’d need some sort of long-term visa.
It’s more likely Vietnam who opened these accounts. Often done to keep money of dubious sources separate from their normal bank account.
Hiding money from the tax man is incredibly common in Vietnam. It’s very common for businesses to pay themselves some small amount, declare it on taxes, then take the other 80% of income tax free.
> Typically you’d need some sort of long-term visa.
You only need a six month visa so it's not that bad. You need a year visa to get a bank card though, but that's not such a big deal since everywhere uses QR code payments here, and you can even withdraw cash from ATMs using the app. I only ever use my Vietnamese bank card for Spotify since that gets me a nice discount.
The big problem is that, whatever type of visa you have, if it expires for some reason then your account gets locked. Hasn't happened to me so I don't know how quick/strict they are. But the rules are changing so quickly here - both for visas and for banking - that I don't feel secure keeping any amount of money beyond my daily needs in my Vietnamese bank.
I visited as a tourist/backapcker ~10 years ago, with visa on arrival. Opened a bank account by walking into a bank with my passport, and walking out 10 minutes later holding a fresh new debit card. It was the easiest of any country I've ever visited.
"[...]all accounts without biometric data will be closed to prevent scams and fraud. After seven years of promoting non-cash payments, we are moving toward real efficiency."
There you have it.. "Scams" and "frauds", "Transparency" for thee but not for all.
I wonder if authorities will just seize money at this point.
You cannot escape your own and foreign governments at this point of human development. You can also not escape tech bullshit complicating our lifes.
The announcement was made on June 2nd. The account closures scheduled to begin on September 1st. It doesn't look like a seizure. Accounts are given about 60 days to address the problem.
"According to Mr. Tuan, unverified accounts may be inactive accounts, abandoned accounts, or accounts with signs of fraud that have been opened widely in the past and are no longer able to be legalized. "
"the whole country had 200 million bank accounts, but after the State Bank required biometric authentication, the number of "live" accounts remaining was 113 million personal account"
The whole country has around around 101.6 million people.
Personally I don't like the idea of a cashless society, but I don't see the Vietnam government doing anything illegal here.
Like Monero, fiat currency has no intrinsic value but derives its value from popular decree and public trust in its stability. The difference is that fiat is legal tender, and people are obligated to accept it under civil and criminal legislation. No one is obliged to accept Monero in payment, or for the settlement of debts public or private.
To date, Cryptocurrency has only ever constituted legal tender in two countries - El Salvador and the Central African Republic - and El Salvador revoked their BTC legal tender law.
There is very much a third way it can gain value and that is features. I and many other value mass acceptance below anonymity, privacy and decentralization. There is a small but steadily growing community of people accepting monero https://monerica.com
There is always the way to swap them for other coins like bitcoin with all there drawbacks.
These governments couldn’t tax properly before (which is why they had import tariffs) and now they found a way around it. Make digital payments cheap and easy to onboard everybody, the introduce taxation as you have a hostage economy. It didn’t work quite well for indonesia (people riot tax increases). We’ll see how it pans out for Vietnam.
It's been a slow tightening of financial transfers in Vietnam.
Not that long ago, it was all cash. Then bank transfers became more common, but it was the wild west compared to the US. You could transfer billions in VND (millions in USD) from whatever account to whatever account - nobody was keeping track. Whether a legitimate payment or a bribe, it was fine.
Then identifies were tightly linked to accounts, starting with national ID numbers and now including facial recognition. Everyone needed to get register or lose access to your bank account (you still owned it, but no online transactions allowed).
The government also put in a new law that requires transfers over a certain amount will now need to be reported as to their purpose or else they'll be considered income and taxed.
In no time Vietnam has gone from wild west to more restrictive than the West!
> now including facial recognition
As a foreigner with a beard living in Vietnam, the facial recognition is an absolute pain. It took me an hour of sitting in a bank with the staff taking photos of me over and over, then whenever I need to do a facial recognition scan in the app (thankfully just for large transactions) it's a complete crapshoot as to whether it'll work.
Of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg regards to problems of banking in Vietnam as a foreigner, and it seems to be getting worse and worse.
I think its only the US that's an outlier in the west.
Here in the Netherlands your biometrics are registered with your ID card. Anyone that has gotten a new dutch ID card pretty much had to scan their fingerprints. Your bank account is also linked to your ID card etc. Reporting of big amounts is also standard practice in the west Europe. Know people that had to work on those system.
Also you don't want foreign money being able to transact freely its a disaster recipe to get regime change going. Especially a country like Vietnam that could be used as a battering ram against China. Which makes it a prime target for western NGOs.
86M accounts in a country of 100M, that's a LOT of foreign accounts.
What gave you the idea they are foreign? On the contrary, it's relatively hard to open a bank in Vietnam as a foreigner.
This is because Vietnam is in the process of a massive modernization of their banking and tax system. They introduced biometric ids for citizens a few years ago, then around a year ago they required everyone with a bank account to link it with their id.
These are the bank accounts that didn't get linked. I'm sure a big chunk of them are just people's old barely used accounts that they couldn't be bothered going into a bank and registering.
I doubt they are mostly foreign accounts.
It’s not easy to open a bank account in Vietnam even before these changes. Typically you’d need some sort of long-term visa.
It’s more likely Vietnam who opened these accounts. Often done to keep money of dubious sources separate from their normal bank account.
Hiding money from the tax man is incredibly common in Vietnam. It’s very common for businesses to pay themselves some small amount, declare it on taxes, then take the other 80% of income tax free.
Not to mention the extensive bribery in Vietnam.
> Typically you’d need some sort of long-term visa.
You only need a six month visa so it's not that bad. You need a year visa to get a bank card though, but that's not such a big deal since everywhere uses QR code payments here, and you can even withdraw cash from ATMs using the app. I only ever use my Vietnamese bank card for Spotify since that gets me a nice discount.
The big problem is that, whatever type of visa you have, if it expires for some reason then your account gets locked. Hasn't happened to me so I don't know how quick/strict they are. But the rules are changing so quickly here - both for visas and for banking - that I don't feel secure keeping any amount of money beyond my daily needs in my Vietnamese bank.
Right, but how many people get 6+ visas in Vietnam? Those are typically work visas.
I doubt there have been 68M foreigners who have opened bank accounts in Vietnam.
I visited as a tourist/backapcker ~10 years ago, with visa on arrival. Opened a bank account by walking into a bank with my passport, and walking out 10 minutes later holding a fresh new debit card. It was the easiest of any country I've ever visited.
"[...]all accounts without biometric data will be closed to prevent scams and fraud. After seven years of promoting non-cash payments, we are moving toward real efficiency."
There you have it.. "Scams" and "frauds", "Transparency" for thee but not for all. I wonder if authorities will just seize money at this point.
You cannot escape your own and foreign governments at this point of human development. You can also not escape tech bullshit complicating our lifes.
The announcement was made on June 2nd. The account closures scheduled to begin on September 1st. It doesn't look like a seizure. Accounts are given about 60 days to address the problem. "According to Mr. Tuan, unverified accounts may be inactive accounts, abandoned accounts, or accounts with signs of fraud that have been opened widely in the past and are no longer able to be legalized. "
"the whole country had 200 million bank accounts, but after the State Bank required biometric authentication, the number of "live" accounts remaining was 113 million personal account" The whole country has around around 101.6 million people.
Personally I don't like the idea of a cashless society, but I don't see the Vietnam government doing anything illegal here.
My country is giving 10 years and I consider it theft.
60 days, if true, is plain day robbery. I wonder if it is just a freeze after 60 days but you can still recover the balance?
Until you try and off-ramp to fiat. Then you hit the same problem.
That's why you use a actual fungible, private and censorship resistant currency like Monero
Like Monero, fiat currency has no intrinsic value but derives its value from popular decree and public trust in its stability. The difference is that fiat is legal tender, and people are obligated to accept it under civil and criminal legislation. No one is obliged to accept Monero in payment, or for the settlement of debts public or private.
To date, Cryptocurrency has only ever constituted legal tender in two countries - El Salvador and the Central African Republic - and El Salvador revoked their BTC legal tender law.
>value from popular decree and public trust
There is very much a third way it can gain value and that is features. I and many other value mass acceptance below anonymity, privacy and decentralization. There is a small but steadily growing community of people accepting monero https://monerica.com
There is always the way to swap them for other coins like bitcoin with all there drawbacks.
These governments couldn’t tax properly before (which is why they had import tariffs) and now they found a way around it. Make digital payments cheap and easy to onboard everybody, the introduce taxation as you have a hostage economy. It didn’t work quite well for indonesia (people riot tax increases). We’ll see how it pans out for Vietnam.
[dead]
Funny, because Scamming and frauds in my experience, does not drop at all.