I'm surprised that anyone can believe to be protected from Israel. Neither the US or European countries demand accountability when Israel kills their any of their citizens; the EU and even the US have curtailed freedom of speech to benefit Israel; in its favour they send the police against their own citizens to disrupt protests, and betray their deepest values and international law. It's clear that in the West, Israel's interest comes before everything else.
Theo whole situation is so messed up. Israel declares Hamas as the enemy and invades Gaza, the US supports and declares Hamas a terrorist organization. US has friendly relations with Qatar, Qatar gives the US a 747 while also hosting Hamas. The whole Middle East is f…ed up and nothing that’s done makes sense.
That's a simplistic take. If the US decried the attack, then all that would change is this article would say something about the US supporting hamas, and someone else instead of yourself would have called out the US for antisemitism.
Swings and roundabouts. As someone above said, the whole place is a basket case.
This is the second post about Israeli strikes on Qatar I've seen in just the last few days that gets flagged. While it would be lovely to know what kinds of assholes keep flagging such things for their own bullshit ideological reasons, it would be even nicer if the admin of this forum simply decided to apply some sane restrictions on flagging by any random idiot for whatever reason they like.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
Politics are politics no matter whether you happen to agree with them or not. If politics are off-topic then so are all those Guardian articles and flagging them is the correct approach.
Mind you, I have my disagreements with this policy since I know nearly everything has been made political. Be that as it may the policy should be applied without bias for this forum to not devolve into yet another Reddit clone.
"Complaining" about what exactly? The 680,000 Palestinians killed since Oct 7th? Or 380,000 Palestinian Infants ? Mind you only 1,900 Israelis have been killed since Oct 7th. I come to this Forum for the level of intellect that is hard to come across elsewhere. However it is becoming a problem when each post is flagged for whatever reasons.
Without taking any sides here, the most liberal estimate of Palestinian casualties, coming from the Palestinian Health Authority, don't break 70,000 Palestinian deaths TOTAL. Where did you get these numbers from?
Complaining about the moderation, because it will only lead to harsher moderation.
Political content of any kind is considered mainstream and off topic by many people here, and thus unlikely to lead to curious and intellectually stimulating conversation. Which is the only kind of conversation we're allowed to have. Good hackers aren't supposed to find this interesting.
If you want to keep discussing these things, it really is best to just keep your head down and accept that the thread will be flagged at some point, and when it's dead, move on.
But ... nobody should have faith in air defense for an area bigger than a few square kilometers. If anybody promises that, their only option is a separate air defense system for every few square kilometers. I don't know but I doubt that sort of thing is deployed anywhere outside of Ukraine or Washington. And in Ukraine only the places that are currently engaged in active warfare. Not even Brussels or Israel has that. In Israel, only specific borders and some city centers are protected (much like in Ukraine) but the grand total of protected areas is not going to be that much. Even Tel Aviv airport did not have active air defense systems, partly because that's much harder, though probably now a few of smart Israeli have been told to solve the hard problem.
And if anybody has faith that even the best such systems would protect against a cruise or ballistic missile with a nuke on board, they don't.
>But ... nobody should have faith in air defense for an area bigger than a few square kilometers. If anybody promises that, their only option is a separate air defense system for every few square kilometers.
It's not about their faith in air defense from the US. It's about their faith in the US defending them (not through air defense, through deterence, diplomacy, and so on), since it colluded with Israel to let it bomb their territory.
That said, not sure how much is the faith of their leaders "shaken". They probably already knew at the top level.
If they didn’t learn from Ukraine (which was supposed to be protected by the US in return for giving up nuclear weapons), hopefully this lesson sticks. US security guarantees are of no value due to political whims.
Uh, Qatar has colluded with hamas, in fact they are colluding with hamas, who have killed US civilians and attacked the US army. So the Qatari government has done worse to the US ... so what? Are they claiming the moral high ground? Seriously? Oh right, they see themselves as superior, they are god, and the entire world needs to be punished in revenge for this "disrespect" to their "power". Yes, raising a stink about this is clearly necessary to protect some Al-Thani ego, but a stink is all they can have.
Qatar is an ally of the US for one reason, and one reason only: to sell their oil. Both to have an export market and because they have absolutely zero hope of getting their oil dug up in the first place, and safely past Iranian waters without US military support. Oh and they have some somewhat conveniently located land the US uses for that deal. Frankly, neither Iran nor Russia or China can offer a deal 10% as sweet as the US offers them, plus you'd have to be totally insane to trust these them.
So when it comes to Qatar's position, the cold analysis is simple: this does not matter, does not change anything.
Either the Qataris knew about it and threw one of their citizens under the bus or they didn't know about it and they won't do anything to avenge one of their citizens. Either way their reputation amongst the Arab word as the U.S.' useful idiot stands.
Imagine having all the money in the world only to let people walk all over you, phew.
I think these countries have to somehow balance their reputation amongst Arabs while maintaining oil revenue, supporting terrorist organizations, buying western weapons, not getting attacked by Israel and not having an internal revolution that overthrows their dictatorships. A very difficult task.
I'm surprised that anyone can believe to be protected from Israel. Neither the US or European countries demand accountability when Israel kills their any of their citizens; the EU and even the US have curtailed freedom of speech to benefit Israel; in its favour they send the police against their own citizens to disrupt protests, and betray their deepest values and international law. It's clear that in the West, Israel's interest comes before everything else.
The US is a vassal of Israel.
rare take
Theo whole situation is so messed up. Israel declares Hamas as the enemy and invades Gaza, the US supports and declares Hamas a terrorist organization. US has friendly relations with Qatar, Qatar gives the US a 747 while also hosting Hamas. The whole Middle East is f…ed up and nothing that’s done makes sense.
And if there wasn't any oil there, most of these problems wouldn't exist (for the US anyway).
There would still be Israel but it definitely be much easier to navigate.
The US is has been a net exporter of oil and gas since the fracking revolution during the Bush administration.
Israel attacked 6 countries within 72 hours during "cease fire" talks. If all neighbors are a "threat" I wonder who the real problem is.
All Qatar had to do was to look at Ukraine to see how some of US promises are worth in the current administration. Better luck next time.
That's a simplistic take. If the US decried the attack, then all that would change is this article would say something about the US supporting hamas, and someone else instead of yourself would have called out the US for antisemitism.
Swings and roundabouts. As someone above said, the whole place is a basket case.
> If the US decried the attack
There would have been no attack to decry
Exactly. The last two years have proven to bibi that no matter who rules the US, they'll let him do whatever he wants
This is the second post about Israeli strikes on Qatar I've seen in just the last few days that gets flagged. While it would be lovely to know what kinds of assholes keep flagging such things for their own bullshit ideological reasons, it would be even nicer if the admin of this forum simply decided to apply some sane restrictions on flagging by any random idiot for whatever reason they like.
Thank you. Someone had to say it.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
Politics are politics no matter whether you happen to agree with them or not. If politics are off-topic then so are all those Guardian articles and flagging them is the correct approach.
Mind you, I have my disagreements with this policy since I know nearly everything has been made political. Be that as it may the policy should be applied without bias for this forum to not devolve into yet another Reddit clone.
I kind of wish people would stop complaining about it, though. We all know what the game is here, and Hacker News isn't going to change.
"Complaining" about what exactly? The 680,000 Palestinians killed since Oct 7th? Or 380,000 Palestinian Infants ? Mind you only 1,900 Israelis have been killed since Oct 7th. I come to this Forum for the level of intellect that is hard to come across elsewhere. However it is becoming a problem when each post is flagged for whatever reasons.
Without taking any sides here, the most liberal estimate of Palestinian casualties, coming from the Palestinian Health Authority, don't break 70,000 Palestinian deaths TOTAL. Where did you get these numbers from?
Complaining about the moderation, because it will only lead to harsher moderation.
Political content of any kind is considered mainstream and off topic by many people here, and thus unlikely to lead to curious and intellectually stimulating conversation. Which is the only kind of conversation we're allowed to have. Good hackers aren't supposed to find this interesting.
If you want to keep discussing these things, it really is best to just keep your head down and accept that the thread will be flagged at some point, and when it's dead, move on.
Thank you for the reply. This I can understand. Hope you have a great weekend!
But ... nobody should have faith in air defense for an area bigger than a few square kilometers. If anybody promises that, their only option is a separate air defense system for every few square kilometers. I don't know but I doubt that sort of thing is deployed anywhere outside of Ukraine or Washington. And in Ukraine only the places that are currently engaged in active warfare. Not even Brussels or Israel has that. In Israel, only specific borders and some city centers are protected (much like in Ukraine) but the grand total of protected areas is not going to be that much. Even Tel Aviv airport did not have active air defense systems, partly because that's much harder, though probably now a few of smart Israeli have been told to solve the hard problem.
And if anybody has faith that even the best such systems would protect against a cruise or ballistic missile with a nuke on board, they don't.
>But ... nobody should have faith in air defense for an area bigger than a few square kilometers. If anybody promises that, their only option is a separate air defense system for every few square kilometers.
It's not about their faith in air defense from the US. It's about their faith in the US defending them (not through air defense, through deterence, diplomacy, and so on), since it colluded with Israel to let it bomb their territory.
That said, not sure how much is the faith of their leaders "shaken". They probably already knew at the top level.
If they didn’t learn from Ukraine (which was supposed to be protected by the US in return for giving up nuclear weapons), hopefully this lesson sticks. US security guarantees are of no value due to political whims.
Uh, Qatar has colluded with hamas, in fact they are colluding with hamas, who have killed US civilians and attacked the US army. So the Qatari government has done worse to the US ... so what? Are they claiming the moral high ground? Seriously? Oh right, they see themselves as superior, they are god, and the entire world needs to be punished in revenge for this "disrespect" to their "power". Yes, raising a stink about this is clearly necessary to protect some Al-Thani ego, but a stink is all they can have.
Qatar is an ally of the US for one reason, and one reason only: to sell their oil. Both to have an export market and because they have absolutely zero hope of getting their oil dug up in the first place, and safely past Iranian waters without US military support. Oh and they have some somewhat conveniently located land the US uses for that deal. Frankly, neither Iran nor Russia or China can offer a deal 10% as sweet as the US offers them, plus you'd have to be totally insane to trust these them.
So when it comes to Qatar's position, the cold analysis is simple: this does not matter, does not change anything.
Either the Qataris knew about it and threw one of their citizens under the bus or they didn't know about it and they won't do anything to avenge one of their citizens. Either way their reputation amongst the Arab word as the U.S.' useful idiot stands.
Imagine having all the money in the world only to let people walk all over you, phew.
I think these countries have to somehow balance their reputation amongst Arabs while maintaining oil revenue, supporting terrorist organizations, buying western weapons, not getting attacked by Israel and not having an internal revolution that overthrows their dictatorships. A very difficult task.
You never can tell if text is satire, but I assume you mean like how the US currently lets China walk all over.