This is a 2017 blog post. It's a throwback to earlier hustle culture writings, before writing like this on LinkedIn became a pop culture meme.
Like most of the hustle culture writing, it's based on a single experience that may or may not have actually happened: The author approached someone in a bar and had a conversation, and now they're preaching this method as some groundbreaking business technique.
Cold approaches like this are not, in my opinion, a good idea if you want valid feedback. When you approach random people in a bar and interrupt them with some request, many people will go into defensive mode where they try to tell you what you want to hear to de-escalate and get you to go away.
Note their reaction:
> Their reaction was notably disturbed!
The author noticed they didn't appreciate his question but pressed on anyway, demanding they give him some feedback. Many people will play along for a few minutes and try to deliver something that fulfills the request and lets them get away from the situation.
That doesn't mean it's good advice. Like most hustle culture writing pieces, I don't think this advice to go to bars and interrupt random people and demand their feedback is a good idea.
I've been working on a few ideas in my free time for several years, and I'm also a frequent bar visitor. I live in a central part of a European city that is quite tourist-heavy, and I don't have a problem talking to strangers, whether they're locals or tourists. I never initiate discussions about my hobby projects, but if enough beer is consumed, such discussions are inevitable.
I have a clear impression that you can't get much reasonable feedback this way. Most people just don't know what you're talking about and will either support or dismiss your idea without knowing anything about the topic. They mostly react based on likeness to previous discussions or on a human likability level. Getting feedback this way has never worked for me.
> I don't think this advice to go to bars and interrupt random people and demand their feedback is a good idea.
Since so many of the comments on here have been exceedingly negative and pearl-clutching...
Given the context of the typical user of this idea, buy them a shot each for their opinions later at night. You'll get a ton of feedback. It won't be coherent, but maybe it doesn't matter. What was the point of this idea again?
It's not "pearl clutching" to explain why the feedback you get from this method isn't going to be helpful.
Annoying your focus group and intruding upon their night out isn't the way to get valid advice. It's how you get "please go away" advice when they start telling you anything to de-escalate and finish the task so they can get on with their night
> It won't be coherent, but maybe it doesn't matter.
I don't understand why people are fixated on the idea of gathering user feedback at a bar, even when they admit it's not going to be good advice.
What's even the point of this exercise? Why go to lengths to extract feedback from bar goers if you don't think it matters?
It's pearl-clutching because bars typically aren't full of people with their assholes puckered quite so tightly and generally appreciate anything different than staring at the wall or talking to people they've known for years (do you remember?)
> Why go to lengths to extract feedback from bar goers if you don't think it matters?
We say this place isn't becoming reddit but man is this the ultimate moment to say "woosh"!
This only works when strangers = target customer because there is no way a stranger would have the understanding of the pain you are relieving for someone when they dont feel that pain. Therefore, it can be better read as "validate your ideas on your target customer" which is kind of obvious.
I'm sure the patrons at dive bars love businesspeople walking up and asking you to listen to their startup idea or review their designs for a corporate rebranding.
Please don't do what this post says. As someone at a bar I would appreciate you leaving me alone without me having to assert my right to a private conversation.
This is like sending an unsolicited email to someone who might want to buy your product.
A single instance is not a bad thing, but once it becomes a repeated occuance it is terrible.
With this particular case, the threshold is likely to be in expectation. If you approach people and any of them are aware of this concept in advance, they might feel used. If they know what you are going to do before you start talking then the entire atmosphere has already been polluted.
It might be easier to think of it in ecological terms. Sustainability and limiting harms mark the core of what should govern human endeavours. If the bar was considered an ecological environment, the harm would be in negatively impacting the enjoyment of customers. A single query from a stranger might do no harm. It might even enrich their evening experience. Done unsustainably however, results in a progressive reduction in the quality of experience across the ecosystem.
Yeah, notice that the "inspiration" for this tactic was a designer who interrupted their loud conversation. He read the room and realized these guys were spitballing business ideas and took advantage of their drunken egos to get some Man On The Street opinions. That all seems fine. The problem comes when you start doing it to people who aren't talking loudly about their own stupid business ideas.
> This is like sending an unsolicited email to someone who might want to buy your product.
It's worse than that. It's interrupting people who are trying to enjoy their night out and demanding they review your homework for you.
If people don't flat out tell you to go away, they're going to try to make up something simple as quick as possible to fulfill your task in the hopes that it will make you leave them alone.
I went to a bar a few years ago and there was someone set up at a table in the corner with a weird-looking deck of cards and a sign that said, "help me test my game design!" That particular approach worked really well, but I think particularly because playing a game in a bar is fun.
If you try this, be prepared for the bartender to tell you to stop hassling the customers, or to cut straight to the part where they kick you out of the bar.
Actually, you can try seeking out your own brutally honest opinion about your own idea. Act like a stingy investor or a totally down-to-earth common man. You should quickly write down the terse half-line questions that your real childish inner self spits out, before they are drowned by the pitch from your refined outer-self.
> Their reaction was notably disturbed! I apologized, saying I had a pitch coming up, and would really like their opinions. Well, they were much more negative toward my idea than I thought they would be!
Because you interrupted their social outing with techbro baggery, including being kinda disingenuous about "a pitch coming up".
> Focus grouping. The only real difference is it is FREE.
A non-consensual focus group, in a venue where people are going partly to get away from biz BS they have to tolerate during the workday.
But if you're going to do it anyway, there is a convention in bars, of offering to buy a person a drink. Especially when it's an ambitious approach. No longer FREE.
A great shortcut to get banned by the bartender because patrons have told them you're harassing and/or soliciting. Bonus points if you try to make your case to the bouncer.
One guy at our company once had this brilliant idea as well. Go to a bar and validate the idea with strangers. After all, our business idea was related to sports and they would surely be interested. I thought this was a great idea. All three of us agreed it was. Later that night, in high spirits, we went to the bar to execute our plan. We sat at the bar for two hours and talked to a grand total of zero people because we were all afraid to approach anyone and bother him or her about our frivolous, idiotic idea.
You might want to limit this to geek-frequented bars in Silicon Valley only, as it is using strangers for your own financial benefits without reimbursing them for their feedback.
Also consider that disclosing your work in public means subsequent attempts to patent anything are toast (unless each stranger signs you an NDA first).
> Also consider that disclosing your work in public means subsequent attempts to patent anything are toast (unless each stranger signs you an NDA first).
Are you suggesting that people trying to have a drink are going to rush out and patent something based on what some asshole was trying to drunkenly describe to them?
This is a 2017 blog post. It's a throwback to earlier hustle culture writings, before writing like this on LinkedIn became a pop culture meme.
Like most of the hustle culture writing, it's based on a single experience that may or may not have actually happened: The author approached someone in a bar and had a conversation, and now they're preaching this method as some groundbreaking business technique.
Cold approaches like this are not, in my opinion, a good idea if you want valid feedback. When you approach random people in a bar and interrupt them with some request, many people will go into defensive mode where they try to tell you what you want to hear to de-escalate and get you to go away.
Note their reaction:
> Their reaction was notably disturbed!
The author noticed they didn't appreciate his question but pressed on anyway, demanding they give him some feedback. Many people will play along for a few minutes and try to deliver something that fulfills the request and lets them get away from the situation.
That doesn't mean it's good advice. Like most hustle culture writing pieces, I don't think this advice to go to bars and interrupt random people and demand their feedback is a good idea.
I've been working on a few ideas in my free time for several years, and I'm also a frequent bar visitor. I live in a central part of a European city that is quite tourist-heavy, and I don't have a problem talking to strangers, whether they're locals or tourists. I never initiate discussions about my hobby projects, but if enough beer is consumed, such discussions are inevitable.
I have a clear impression that you can't get much reasonable feedback this way. Most people just don't know what you're talking about and will either support or dismiss your idea without knowing anything about the topic. They mostly react based on likeness to previous discussions or on a human likability level. Getting feedback this way has never worked for me.
> I never initiate discussions about my hobby projects, but if enough beer is consumed, such discussions are inevitable.
Bringing up a business idea as a conversation topic after getting to know someone over beers is one thing.
This blog post isn't about that, though. It's about ambushing people at a bar and demanding they review your startup idea.
> ...It's about ambushing people at a bar and demanding they review your startup idea.
That sounds even worse to me. That needs a very friendly bar to afford to be that annoying. :)
> I don't think this advice to go to bars and interrupt random people and demand their feedback is a good idea.
Since so many of the comments on here have been exceedingly negative and pearl-clutching...
Given the context of the typical user of this idea, buy them a shot each for their opinions later at night. You'll get a ton of feedback. It won't be coherent, but maybe it doesn't matter. What was the point of this idea again?
> negative and pearl-clutching...
It's not "pearl clutching" to explain why the feedback you get from this method isn't going to be helpful.
Annoying your focus group and intruding upon their night out isn't the way to get valid advice. It's how you get "please go away" advice when they start telling you anything to de-escalate and finish the task so they can get on with their night
> It won't be coherent, but maybe it doesn't matter.
I don't understand why people are fixated on the idea of gathering user feedback at a bar, even when they admit it's not going to be good advice.
What's even the point of this exercise? Why go to lengths to extract feedback from bar goers if you don't think it matters?
It's pearl-clutching because bars typically aren't full of people with their assholes puckered quite so tightly and generally appreciate anything different than staring at the wall or talking to people they've known for years (do you remember?)
> Why go to lengths to extract feedback from bar goers if you don't think it matters?
We say this place isn't becoming reddit but man is this the ultimate moment to say "woosh"!
This only works when strangers = target customer because there is no way a stranger would have the understanding of the pain you are relieving for someone when they dont feel that pain. Therefore, it can be better read as "validate your ideas on your target customer" which is kind of obvious.
I'm sure the patrons at dive bars love businesspeople walking up and asking you to listen to their startup idea or review their designs for a corporate rebranding.
> patrons at dive bars love businesspeople walking up and asking you to listen to their startup idea
Honestly why 10 years ago in SF I stopped telling people I’m a software engineer when we chat at a bar. It was relentless.
> private, albeit very loud, conversation
Please don't do what this post says. As someone at a bar I would appreciate you leaving me alone without me having to assert my right to a private conversation.
Weeeeell, as someone else at a bar, I wouldn’t mind some negative pressure on the private but very loud conversation style.
This is like sending an unsolicited email to someone who might want to buy your product.
A single instance is not a bad thing, but once it becomes a repeated occuance it is terrible.
With this particular case, the threshold is likely to be in expectation. If you approach people and any of them are aware of this concept in advance, they might feel used. If they know what you are going to do before you start talking then the entire atmosphere has already been polluted.
It might be easier to think of it in ecological terms. Sustainability and limiting harms mark the core of what should govern human endeavours. If the bar was considered an ecological environment, the harm would be in negatively impacting the enjoyment of customers. A single query from a stranger might do no harm. It might even enrich their evening experience. Done unsustainably however, results in a progressive reduction in the quality of experience across the ecosystem.
Yeah, notice that the "inspiration" for this tactic was a designer who interrupted their loud conversation. He read the room and realized these guys were spitballing business ideas and took advantage of their drunken egos to get some Man On The Street opinions. That all seems fine. The problem comes when you start doing it to people who aren't talking loudly about their own stupid business ideas.
> This is like sending an unsolicited email to someone who might want to buy your product.
It's worse than that. It's interrupting people who are trying to enjoy their night out and demanding they review your homework for you.
If people don't flat out tell you to go away, they're going to try to make up something simple as quick as possible to fulfill your task in the hopes that it will make you leave them alone.
I went to a bar a few years ago and there was someone set up at a table in the corner with a weird-looking deck of cards and a sign that said, "help me test my game design!" That particular approach worked really well, but I think particularly because playing a game in a bar is fun.
In this case, it might work because you're not only asking for feedback; you're also (hopefully) contributing to people having fun.
$10 if you give me your opinion about my idea...
If you try this, be prepared for the bartender to tell you to stop hassling the customers, or to cut straight to the part where they kick you out of the bar.
This reminds me of a picture where a guy pitch someone in the restroom :D https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G3WSULNaAAAjE17.jpg
when he asks you about his new idea for an app, just pretend you didn't hear him. if we all do it, eventually he'll leave
Actually, you can try seeking out your own brutally honest opinion about your own idea. Act like a stingy investor or a totally down-to-earth common man. You should quickly write down the terse half-line questions that your real childish inner self spits out, before they are drowned by the pitch from your refined outer-self.
At this point, why not simply order an LLM to roast the idea, acting as "the arch-enemy of the pitcher" or something akin to that?
"The Mom Test" book seems to be about this exactly: https://www.momtestbook.com/
> Their reaction was notably disturbed! I apologized, saying I had a pitch coming up, and would really like their opinions. Well, they were much more negative toward my idea than I thought they would be!
Because you interrupted their social outing with techbro baggery, including being kinda disingenuous about "a pitch coming up".
> Focus grouping. The only real difference is it is FREE.
A non-consensual focus group, in a venue where people are going partly to get away from biz BS they have to tolerate during the workday.
But if you're going to do it anyway, there is a convention in bars, of offering to buy a person a drink. Especially when it's an ambitious approach. No longer FREE.
I think that the author needs to read "The Mom Test".
People would use it for sex.
Teens will use anything for sex.
A great shortcut to get banned by the bartender because patrons have told them you're harassing and/or soliciting. Bonus points if you try to make your case to the bouncer.
It should be made clearer that this is from 2017.
I can only speak from my own experience that both the tech scene and bar scene have changed dramatically.
100%
One guy at our company once had this brilliant idea as well. Go to a bar and validate the idea with strangers. After all, our business idea was related to sports and they would surely be interested. I thought this was a great idea. All three of us agreed it was. Later that night, in high spirits, we went to the bar to execute our plan. We sat at the bar for two hours and talked to a grand total of zero people because we were all afraid to approach anyone and bother him or her about our frivolous, idiotic idea.
You might want to limit this to geek-frequented bars in Silicon Valley only, as it is using strangers for your own financial benefits without reimbursing them for their feedback.
Also consider that disclosing your work in public means subsequent attempts to patent anything are toast (unless each stranger signs you an NDA first).
> Also consider that disclosing your work in public means subsequent attempts to patent anything are toast (unless each stranger signs you an NDA first).
Are you suggesting that people trying to have a drink are going to rush out and patent something based on what some asshole was trying to drunkenly describe to them?
propably not but you never know.