A lot of comments are casting doubt on why “athletes” would be interested in this product. In the bike world, electric pedal assist bikes have become very popular. I have some family members who are avid cyclists. They do 100+ miles a week. As they have gotten older (60+) they were losing the ability to engage in social rides with their bike friends, but e-bikes have solved that issue by giving them just a small boost needed to keep up.
I could see this doing the same for older runners if the tech gets good enough.
“Athlete” != “professional athlete” the word encompasses a wide range of people and abilities.
Yeah, stuff like this is great for people who want to be outside and get some exercise, but aren't doing it for the purpose of competing with anyone.
I personally love hiking. I love going into nature, seeing new places, and being away from people. But there are times where I go for a slightly easier course instead of the one I actually want to do, because that few extra hours would absolutely wreck my body, especially since I'm often hiking in different places for several days. A little boost would be nice.
And with e-bikes, they're great for commuters and people just riding around their neighborhood. Lots of people ride them in my town for doing shopping trips. More affordable than a car, better for the environment, better for your health, and people who otherwise would take a car because they can't deal with pedaling uphill or long distances have a great alternative. I imagine powered shoes will be the same. People who feel like they're too old/out of shape to walk long distances often opt for cars, but if powered shoes give them the confidence to walk, it's far better to take an electronically assisted walk than to sit in a vehicle.
Pedantic, but the definition of an athlete is someone proficient in a physical activity. Quite some people barely use their bodies, unless we count moving in and out of a car.
> I could see this doing the same for older runners if the tech gets good enough.
I have degenerative disc disease that's severe enough to prevent me from running without causing neurological problems or pain. I miss being able to run (I'm in my early 40s), I haven't done it in 8 years. If something like this could lead to treating my problem, it would open up new worlds for me.
People with pedal-assist ebikes do more work and ride them for more distance than people with acoustic bikes.
Less gatekeeping, more celebration: imagine being Pogi and being able to crank 300 watts for hours on end. It would make touring the countryside a joy!
I don't think this is really true in general. When you climb a pass, the distance and elevation are fixed; the ebike riders buzzing by at twice your speed are not doing more work than you - they are avoiding some of the work inherent in the climb.
If they're going twice your speed, they can go twice as far. Assuming they're personally providing at least half the power over the course of the bike ride, they're expending identical calories to you, possibly more to compensate for their heavier bike.
It's true that the moment-to-moment intensity is lower, but lowering intensity is some of the most common advice given to people struggling to get into a sport without their body rebelling, and the challenge as often as not is that they're bored at the beginner's pace and want to push more.
It's the same concept as assisted pull ups or knee pushups. Sure, you can build up from scratch by just doing a fraction of the duration, but that's boring and frustrating. Being able to actually move your body the full distance with less effort is a much more engaging way to build up the physical capacity you need to do it without the assist.
They can't go twice as far if the ride is up a defined climb. One you do the distance, that's it, you reached the pass, you can now only coast back down to the base.
In my experience, those on e-bikes are older and less fit in general, so it's not a matter of them making up for the work in volume; it's more that they couldn't do the climb at all without the assistance.
Also, your assumption about them providing half the work is surely wrong. Even basic ebikes provide 250W; some models provide double or triple that still. The rider provides probably 125W at most, so a third or less of the total power.
I'm sure it depends on geography. In my area, the e-bikes are pretty much confined to the rail-trails, which are flat. When I get out into the hills, the bikes buzzing by me at twice my speed are all conventional. I've seen no e-bikes out there.
Also, making educated guesses, it may be a non-issue. Most of the e-cyclists in my area seem to be divided into two categories: 1) What I would call adult beginners, who had bikes but didn't ride them much before they got e-bikes. 2) Practical uses such as commuting, transporting kids, etc. And recreational use of e-bikes seems to have peaked while basic transportation use continues to grow.
The commuters pass me at a high speed, but they're also in good control, and polite. The beginners tend to ride at the same speed as conventional bikes, or even slower.
The real problem that e-bikes solve is not faster horses, but whether someone wants to get around on a bike at all.
On a particular climb, sure: energy is conserved, but this is a curb-cut effect. It's easier to make a little jaunt on an ebike, so people are more likely to use their ebikes to take that little jaunt.
More rides, for more distance. The integrated effect is more energy expended.
I think the key factor is amount of rides. On a one to one comparison, obviously an ebike is less work but how much more often are ebike riders riding?
I don't own one but there have been plenty of times in my life where I go somewhere ina car that's in biking distance but don't because maybe there's a decent hill on the way and I don't want to arrive sweaty.
The easy ride an ebike offers opens up more opportunities to ride.
Social rides? I think using a pedal assist bike would more readily lead to social ostracizing amongst friends who are using regular bikes. In my experience, at least among my circle of friends, if one person couldn't keep up they would rather shorten the distance than allowing that person to use an e-bike.
Electric pedal assist bikes are best suited for commuting and running errands, i.e. using the bike as a transportation tool, not a recreation tool.
This sounds like a gross generalization of cyclists—I hope everyone’s friends aren’t this petty! I’ve gone on plenty of rides on an e-bike/not on an e-bike with folks doing the opposite and have never felt ostracized or made others feel ostracized.
As other commenters posted, it gets even more people out on the paths who wouldn’t normally be able to keep up or might feel self-conscious, and I think that’s a really positive thing.
I must admit I don't interact with all kinds of cyclists. My circle of cyclists are the ones who like indoor cycling as much as going outdoors, and they almost always have a power meter and like to challenge themselves for power PRs, and they tend to be Strava Premium users.
It’s not about distance, it’s about burst. It sucks to go on a ride where you fall behind or have to all-out every time there’s a hill or you need to accelerate after a stoplight. May only need 50-100w, but makes it so people can keep up with the group and have a fun time.
Depends on how decent your friends are… one couple I know in particular, they both love MTB, but have different endurance levels, so with one having an e-bike it evens out nicely.
Are you sure? I am talking about 60 and 70 year olds who can ride a non e bike 50+ miles without stopping, but who need an e-bike to ride 50+ miles at the same pace as their younger friends. How is that person not athletic? Sure they aren’t winning any gold medals, but they are still clearly in the top 1% of their age group.
Surgery recovery, too. An older cyclist is going to need surgeries more often than a younger one, and will take much longer to recover. For some guys a high-end electric assist bike is how they stay riding with the A-group while they're recovering.
What value is a friendship or connection that can not withstand a few months of "for the next months I will ride with some slower group" or "I may join you for the beginning but I can not go all the way"?
What does "can not" even mean in this context? You could refuse to use an e-bike just like you could refuse to use an expensive bicycle.
Perhaps more interesting, a lot of people I know do train but don't push themselves to the limit. There is always something left in the tank. If their goal is to train to improve it's very [lets say] expensive. They invest a lot for small returns.
Now what if you could keep going if you would otherwise feel the need to quit?
I cycle for a good while then have to guess if ill still be able make it back home. Usually I bet on the safe side. When I bet to low I could add a few laps around the block but this requires an odd kind of discipline that I seem to lack.
Rather than grow it turns into a maintenance routine. If I wanted to do maintenance I would do much less and less frequent.
> You could refuse to use an e-bike just like you could refuse to use an expensive bicycle.
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. I am taking the argument from OP about "people recovering from surgery might need electric assist to keep up with the A-group", and I'm questioning this need.
If someone wants to have some assistance, then by all means go ahead and use it. I'm just not seeing why someone would need to have this sort of assistance, unless they are just doing some poor post-hoc rationalization for their wants.
"Need in order to" is a common construction in English. It refers to a necessary condition, without placing any absolute constraints on the necessity. (Who's to say how the absolute "need" is defined? Do we need to live? Do we need good food, positive social interactions, exercise, shelter?)
> "Need in order to" is a common construction in English.
I was paraphrashing. OP's original comment said "For some guys a high-end electric assist bike is how they stay riding with the A-group while they're recovering."
What I question here is, simply put, why "stay riding with the A-group" is in any way important? While one is recovering from surgery, what is so bad about riding with a B-group? Or why not ride with that A-group, but for a shorter distance?
What a weird take. It's not a case of "withstanding" a friendship, it's a case of enjoying some time with your buddies. If you enjoy spending time with the people you usually ride with why wouldn't you if given the ability to do so?
Is a ski lift athletic, it's powered. Does it make skiers inherently UN-athletic?
I've got a 12 mile bike commute with a big ass hill at the end. If I do 0 miles a day/week/ever without an electric bike to get me up that hill, or I do 8 miles 2x a week with the electric, am I not more athletic? Are firemen who use a hose that is powered by a pump less athletic than those who carry water in buckets?
If I'm normally sitting stationary and I do anything movement at all am I not, in fact, pushing the limits of my body?
My mom was 80, and had a stroke. She couldn't lift her toes on the right side, making it hard to walk without tripping. These shoes are for "everyday athletes". Does this make her completely unathletic, or do they, in fact, allow her to become more athletic than she could be otherwise?
If it were solely about pushing the limits of the body, cyclists wouldn’t obsess about aerodynamics nearly as much and competitions would be about average watts over n-minutes or something like that.
Random point (and definitely not agreeing with OP), but Zwift (and probably others before) has brought on an age of watts/kg competitions.
And a lot of being aerodynamic on a bike is athleticism: you need to be flexible enough and appropriately trained to be in the right posture. The bike frames, skinsuits, etc, are all in the "marginal gains" territory.
I'd like such technology very much, as I lack about 80% of my calf muscles due to an auto immune disease. I can't walk without a (non powered) exo skeleton, and perhaps with these I can walk stairs again.
I completely agree my mother has MS and I have my own autoimmune issues. Something like this would be extremely helpful for people with debilitating diseases that cause muscle deterioration.
I'm a huge fan of "slightly better walking/running" kind of tech. Unfortunately, current technology lends itself to devices that are slightly too heavy. I have a pair of Shift Moonwalkers[0] that I was hoping would fulfill that role.
A motorcycle accident interrupted my fitness program and it took quite a lot of work to get back to where I am. During that period there were many times when I was (minorly) injured repeatedly since all my muscles were just not strong enough to do things and I wasn't disciplined about them.
I picked up some persistent tendinitis that is just healing with some physiotherapy. Things like this aren't terribly limiting in life but the primary problem is that a lot of the stuff you have to do is rest the appropriate body part! And to rest it, you need to not do things. I don't want to not do things. I want to do things while resting the appropriate part of my body.
And I bet as I get older, all this stuff will catch up. So anything that will extend mobility to my elderly years (still far away) is great. If I do the right things, my body will function well into my 80s and if the tech is there hopefully I'll walk around with my grandkids. All in all, I'm hoping that material science in batteries, motors, and frames and product design all do a big leap in this in the next 40 years. The market is likely there with our aging population.
For those of you who don’t “see the point” of a device like this, what you are failing to see is your own personal use case.
The use cases I can see for others are “anyone who might find this useful or fun”. To me, that means
1) people with medically compromised joints who would like to engage in experiences that their bodies don’t currently allow.
2) people who want to challenge themselves by making these joint additions add more resistance.
3) people who want more strength and/or power for any reason. “Fun” is a valid use case.
These joint enhancements exist for hips, knees, and with this, now ankles. The logical end for this is a powered exoskeleton (and, after that, power armor).
> 1) people with medically compromised joints who would like to engage in experiences that their bodies don’t currently allow.
And medically compromised muscles, nervous systems, etc. I know someone in that situation who loves scooters. They say it's like flying - they finally can move at will, instead of the lifelong difficulty and pain of walking.
I find running incredibly boring, because the scenery changes so damn slowly around you. I would happily put in the same effort for the same time, but go substantially faster to make it more fun.
Not sure I would buy this product, but I see more than 0 use for it.
> because the scenery changes so damn slowly around you
Have you considered running faster?
But seriously though, I’ve gotten pretty decent at running (3h15min marathon PR) and the difference between hiking a trail and running the same trail is kinda bonkers. These days I can run a trail in 2 hours that took me 6 hours to hike 10 years ago. Hits totally different. The whole dynamic changes.
Hiking feels immensely boring now
PS: If you run fast enough you don’t even notice the scenery.
Getting off topic but this is exactly why, after never running for fun in my life, I got into cycling (a hobby that admittedly can easily turn expensive even if it doesn't have to).
Instead of running 10km in an hour, I could bike from Silicon Valley to the ocean and back in 3-4 hours, and have views over city, hills, oceans, suburbia, etc.
> 1) people with medically compromised joints who would like to engage in experiences that their bodies don’t currently allow.
They say:
> Engineered to augment natural lower leg and ankle movement
Meanwhile, most people who can't walk/run as they would like have issues from their knees upward.
Worse, having heavier lower leg means more strain on the upper leg.
Yes, there's probably a narrow niche of people with lower leg only issues that can be helped by this device, but most people have issues upward ; and this device have the potential to create issues upward on people not yet concerned by them.
If it was a medical company I'd agree a bit more. But it's Nike. They'll sell that to any person who thinks walking is too hard even though it's not in his best medical interest.
There is nothing natural about the motions of running in modern running shoes, and yet people learn. Getting the behavior right will be difficult, I'm sure, but not impossible.
All the "athlete" and "farther" and "faster" talk is all well and good, but kids are going to buy these, hack them, and use them to create the next generation of impossible dance moves.
Wild! Looks like it pulls your heel up so reduces energy requirement of each up stroke? Seems like it would need to be super light to offset carrying more mass?
"designed to help everyday athletes* go a little bit faster and farther"
When is the last time an athlete said I'm looking to go a little faster and farther with the aid of a powered device? Their target market is all wrong. This would be great if aimed towards low mobility users.
> the power comes from pistons that are filled with a fuel-air mixture, and fired by compression when the user puts his or her full body weight down into the boot
> This makes it easier for everyday athletes to walk or run more often, for longer amounts of time, while having more fun — adding movement to their lives, extending their walking commute, or helping them to enjoy the run for another mile or two.
The people I know who run all do it for the exercise, not because they like the running. Why would you want to extend it?
> The people I know who run all do it for the exercise, not because they like the running.
That sounds like torture. Why would you voluntarily practice a form of exercise that you actively dislike, when there are basically infinite options to get the same benefits in different ways?
Believe it or not, many people who stick with running do it because they enjoy it.
I became a runner by elimination: I needed to do something for "cardiac hygiene". Swimming has a setup cost (you need to go to a pool). Cycling takes too long, so running it became. I run 40-50km/week, and honestly I do not like it. Anyway, I do enjoy the mental health side effects too.
I don't really like and never liked running; I mean, I don't like it as I like skateboarding, which makes me all butterfly hyped just thinking about riding a board and doing even the dumbest simplest tricks.
But I do like the effects of running, which I don't seem to be able to emulate any other way. I can't say it's torture - it should never be nor feel like torture otherwise you're doing it wrong - but it was certainly a learned taste of sorts.
It's more like this human body has been shaped to do this by aeons of evolution, and over time it feels immensely rewarding after the fact when done properly for a given fitness level.
You don't have to like running, your body does already (but might have forgotten)
>Why would you voluntarily practice a form of exercise that you actively dislike, when there are basically infinite options to get the same benefits in different ways?
If there are other, more enjoyable, ways to get a similarly cardo-intensive workout that are equally convenient I'd love to hear them.
I like cycling. But in practice it is difficult to get my heart rate as high in a sustained way - at least, where I live. A similar level of workout takes a lot longer.
So yeah, hit me with some of these infinite possibilities please.
I like this. I like walking, and I already walk quite fast, but I'd like to see more while I walk. (Though, as I'm thinking about it right now, I might also just consciously practice walking faster.)
When Nike was working on the Mags (self-lacing) there were lots of hobby projects to try and build the same thing, but none of them could come close to the finish and integration that Nike could manage with their resources and industrial processes.
Are there any actual videos of this, you know, in use? All I see is a bunch of 3d renders of it. There isn't even a picture of a Nike executive holding a prototype.
This is godawful, I hate it. If you aren't physically disabled or injured you have no business using this kind of thing. I do not want to live in the world where otherwise fully-capable human beings are not even using their own legs to walk anymore either because they can't be bothered to get off the couch for an hour a day or because they don't have the time to improve their health.
Absolutely disgusting nonsense. Get off my lawn, robot hippies
Bikes and cars are modes of transport. They're optimal for getting around at high speeds, but when you don't need them, you need to leave them somewhere, they're large and not very convenient. On the other hand, these are shoes. You put them on in the morning and can wear them anywhere outside, they're not separate things you need to handle. I can definitely see demand for this from people who walk all day long for their jobs (warehouse workers, military, etc) or hikers/runners who want to stretch their endurance over a larger distance.
I would like to have something like this if it helped me with e.g. shin splints, or similar, because I really love running, but I tend to overdo it and I don't have any other options than asphalt to run on. Not sure if this one would be good for shin splits though. I guess this could potentially just be a fun thing to run a bit faster, but that alone wouldn't be worth it for me. But if it allowed me to balance where the strain goes, then yeah.
I was going to comment the same thing, rather than push off harder, I'd hope it help brace for impact and relieve some of the weaker muscles.
Yes, I should perhaps be doing strength training, but I have limited hours to exercise and I'd prefer to spend them running rather than training so that eventually I could be running.
Another thing that happens is that your technique gets worse during longer runs, making you more prone to injuries. Maybe a device like this could either support you so you can run longer runs or compensate to make sure you don't hurt yourself.
So if this device helps with reducing running based injuries, I'm all for it
I have an electric cargo bike that I put in one of the lowest settings, if I cycle at the top speed it doesn't help much if at all. But accelerating from a dead stop is nice. This could be similar
Off topic, but for what it's worth I'm getting myself a rowing machine to try and alleviate my running cravings, especially as winter is coming. I'm not sure if it will be able to reproduce the feelings I get from running as I haven't done rowing enough, but running seems to be the only thing I've found that puts me into this flow state. Cycling is too limited, legs only, HR doesn't get high enough, so hopefully rowing is better due to it being full body. Rowing won't be outside and I won't be physically moving around so that may be the downside. But the metrics to achieve should be much more consistent and comparable compared to if there's many weather changes otherwise, so looking forward to seeing progress there.
It’s somewhat funny that you mention shin splints and technique breakdown, both of which can be helped through regular gym going but also want a shortcut rather than the obvious solution.
Shin splints really do suck though, I had some that put me off running for about 12 months.
Maybe they can be helped, and I've read suggestions like these as well, but I used to do a lot of strength training, including not skipping leg days, and still got shin splints. So strength training might decrease odds for some people, but I don't feel like it would be deciding factor for me.
Might be good for the last mile commuting problem, where people need a way to get from their home to a bus stop that is a mile or two away. A bicycle is not a good solution because then you have to take it on to the bus and to your destination.
I wish that existed too. Not just an event to see how far the human body can be pushed naturally, but also another one to see how far it can be pushed, period. There would still need to be regulation to ensure that people didn't actively harm themselves (like extreme doping or something), but other augmentations like exoskeletons and such would be allowed.
I see this more applicable to the military and law enforcement, but yes also for the elderly and disabled. Yeah, the opening line with “athletes” doesn’t make sense.
There are already powered leg augmentations on the market for $3-5k, but these are much smaller.
"In 2027, mechanically-augmented people all over the world suffered from extreme psychotic delusions, lost control of themselves, and started attacking people. Millions died. Hundreds of thousands more were injured and maimed.
In the wake of this global catastrophe, society has become divided by hatred, prejudice, and fear, with many countries now enacting harsh laws. The most notable of these laws is the highly controversial “Human Restoration Act”, aimed at isolating “Augs” and keeping them away from “Naturals”."
> and Nike will rip you off with the price for "western engineering".
It's the brand more than anything. Nike's brand commands a premium.
I've quite literally never seen a product like this on the market, so as far as I'm concerned if Nike is the first to Western market with the product, and they do a good job introducing it, it's their innovation.
It's like with Nintendo and Apple. They're quite frequently not the first to develop a technology, but they take things and popularize them. Digital cameras, motion control, touch screens, smartphones, tablet gaming devices, ...
The Moonwalkers from Shift Robotics from 2022 come to mind, but are noticeably different. Or the Dephy Exoboot: https://www.dephy.com which is also 'the first'
A lot of comments are casting doubt on why “athletes” would be interested in this product. In the bike world, electric pedal assist bikes have become very popular. I have some family members who are avid cyclists. They do 100+ miles a week. As they have gotten older (60+) they were losing the ability to engage in social rides with their bike friends, but e-bikes have solved that issue by giving them just a small boost needed to keep up.
I could see this doing the same for older runners if the tech gets good enough.
“Athlete” != “professional athlete” the word encompasses a wide range of people and abilities.
Yeah, stuff like this is great for people who want to be outside and get some exercise, but aren't doing it for the purpose of competing with anyone.
I personally love hiking. I love going into nature, seeing new places, and being away from people. But there are times where I go for a slightly easier course instead of the one I actually want to do, because that few extra hours would absolutely wreck my body, especially since I'm often hiking in different places for several days. A little boost would be nice.
And with e-bikes, they're great for commuters and people just riding around their neighborhood. Lots of people ride them in my town for doing shopping trips. More affordable than a car, better for the environment, better for your health, and people who otherwise would take a car because they can't deal with pedaling uphill or long distances have a great alternative. I imagine powered shoes will be the same. People who feel like they're too old/out of shape to walk long distances often opt for cars, but if powered shoes give them the confidence to walk, it's far better to take an electronically assisted walk than to sit in a vehicle.
The linked article says this at the end:
> * If you have a body, you are an athlete.
Pedantic, but the definition of an athlete is someone proficient in a physical activity. Quite some people barely use their bodies, unless we count moving in and out of a car.
> I could see this doing the same for older runners if the tech gets good enough.
I have degenerative disc disease that's severe enough to prevent me from running without causing neurological problems or pain. I miss being able to run (I'm in my early 40s), I haven't done it in 8 years. If something like this could lead to treating my problem, it would open up new worlds for me.
People with pedal-assist ebikes do more work and ride them for more distance than people with acoustic bikes.
Less gatekeeping, more celebration: imagine being Pogi and being able to crank 300 watts for hours on end. It would make touring the countryside a joy!
I don't think this is really true in general. When you climb a pass, the distance and elevation are fixed; the ebike riders buzzing by at twice your speed are not doing more work than you - they are avoiding some of the work inherent in the climb.
If they're going twice your speed, they can go twice as far. Assuming they're personally providing at least half the power over the course of the bike ride, they're expending identical calories to you, possibly more to compensate for their heavier bike.
It's true that the moment-to-moment intensity is lower, but lowering intensity is some of the most common advice given to people struggling to get into a sport without their body rebelling, and the challenge as often as not is that they're bored at the beginner's pace and want to push more.
It's the same concept as assisted pull ups or knee pushups. Sure, you can build up from scratch by just doing a fraction of the duration, but that's boring and frustrating. Being able to actually move your body the full distance with less effort is a much more engaging way to build up the physical capacity you need to do it without the assist.
They can't go twice as far if the ride is up a defined climb. One you do the distance, that's it, you reached the pass, you can now only coast back down to the base.
In my experience, those on e-bikes are older and less fit in general, so it's not a matter of them making up for the work in volume; it's more that they couldn't do the climb at all without the assistance.
Also, your assumption about them providing half the work is surely wrong. Even basic ebikes provide 250W; some models provide double or triple that still. The rider provides probably 125W at most, so a third or less of the total power.
I'm sure it depends on geography. In my area, the e-bikes are pretty much confined to the rail-trails, which are flat. When I get out into the hills, the bikes buzzing by me at twice my speed are all conventional. I've seen no e-bikes out there.
Also, making educated guesses, it may be a non-issue. Most of the e-cyclists in my area seem to be divided into two categories: 1) What I would call adult beginners, who had bikes but didn't ride them much before they got e-bikes. 2) Practical uses such as commuting, transporting kids, etc. And recreational use of e-bikes seems to have peaked while basic transportation use continues to grow.
The commuters pass me at a high speed, but they're also in good control, and polite. The beginners tend to ride at the same speed as conventional bikes, or even slower.
The real problem that e-bikes solve is not faster horses, but whether someone wants to get around on a bike at all.
On a particular climb, sure: energy is conserved, but this is a curb-cut effect. It's easier to make a little jaunt on an ebike, so people are more likely to use their ebikes to take that little jaunt.
More rides, for more distance. The integrated effect is more energy expended.
I think the key factor is amount of rides. On a one to one comparison, obviously an ebike is less work but how much more often are ebike riders riding?
I don't own one but there have been plenty of times in my life where I go somewhere ina car that's in biking distance but don't because maybe there's a decent hill on the way and I don't want to arrive sweaty.
The easy ride an ebike offers opens up more opportunities to ride.
Ding ding ding! It's a curb cut
Social rides? I think using a pedal assist bike would more readily lead to social ostracizing amongst friends who are using regular bikes. In my experience, at least among my circle of friends, if one person couldn't keep up they would rather shorten the distance than allowing that person to use an e-bike.
Electric pedal assist bikes are best suited for commuting and running errands, i.e. using the bike as a transportation tool, not a recreation tool.
This sounds like a gross generalization of cyclists—I hope everyone’s friends aren’t this petty! I’ve gone on plenty of rides on an e-bike/not on an e-bike with folks doing the opposite and have never felt ostracized or made others feel ostracized.
As other commenters posted, it gets even more people out on the paths who wouldn’t normally be able to keep up or might feel self-conscious, and I think that’s a really positive thing.
I must admit I don't interact with all kinds of cyclists. My circle of cyclists are the ones who like indoor cycling as much as going outdoors, and they almost always have a power meter and like to challenge themselves for power PRs, and they tend to be Strava Premium users.
Sounds insufferable.
It’s not about distance, it’s about burst. It sucks to go on a ride where you fall behind or have to all-out every time there’s a hill or you need to accelerate after a stoplight. May only need 50-100w, but makes it so people can keep up with the group and have a fun time.
Who are you to say what e-bikes are best used for? They are a lot of fun to ride.
It's my sincere opinion. You are allowed to disagree.
Depends on how decent your friends are… one couple I know in particular, they both love MTB, but have different endurance levels, so with one having an e-bike it evens out nicely.
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Are you sure? I am talking about 60 and 70 year olds who can ride a non e bike 50+ miles without stopping, but who need an e-bike to ride 50+ miles at the same pace as their younger friends. How is that person not athletic? Sure they aren’t winning any gold medals, but they are still clearly in the top 1% of their age group.
Surgery recovery, too. An older cyclist is going to need surgeries more often than a younger one, and will take much longer to recover. For some guys a high-end electric assist bike is how they stay riding with the A-group while they're recovering.
Other than ego, what's forcing people recovering from surgery to ride with the A-group?
Friendship and other social connections?
What value is a friendship or connection that can not withstand a few months of "for the next months I will ride with some slower group" or "I may join you for the beginning but I can not go all the way"?
What does "can not" even mean in this context? You could refuse to use an e-bike just like you could refuse to use an expensive bicycle.
Perhaps more interesting, a lot of people I know do train but don't push themselves to the limit. There is always something left in the tank. If their goal is to train to improve it's very [lets say] expensive. They invest a lot for small returns.
Now what if you could keep going if you would otherwise feel the need to quit?
I cycle for a good while then have to guess if ill still be able make it back home. Usually I bet on the safe side. When I bet to low I could add a few laps around the block but this requires an odd kind of discipline that I seem to lack.
Rather than grow it turns into a maintenance routine. If I wanted to do maintenance I would do much less and less frequent.
> You could refuse to use an e-bike just like you could refuse to use an expensive bicycle.
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. I am taking the argument from OP about "people recovering from surgery might need electric assist to keep up with the A-group", and I'm questioning this need.
If someone wants to have some assistance, then by all means go ahead and use it. I'm just not seeing why someone would need to have this sort of assistance, unless they are just doing some poor post-hoc rationalization for their wants.
"Need in order to" is a common construction in English. It refers to a necessary condition, without placing any absolute constraints on the necessity. (Who's to say how the absolute "need" is defined? Do we need to live? Do we need good food, positive social interactions, exercise, shelter?)
> "Need in order to" is a common construction in English.
I was paraphrashing. OP's original comment said "For some guys a high-end electric assist bike is how they stay riding with the A-group while they're recovering."
What I question here is, simply put, why "stay riding with the A-group" is in any way important? While one is recovering from surgery, what is so bad about riding with a B-group? Or why not ride with that A-group, but for a shorter distance?
What a weird take. It's not a case of "withstanding" a friendship, it's a case of enjoying some time with your buddies. If you enjoy spending time with the people you usually ride with why wouldn't you if given the ability to do so?
Humans being social animals.
Is a ski lift athletic, it's powered. Does it make skiers inherently UN-athletic?
I've got a 12 mile bike commute with a big ass hill at the end. If I do 0 miles a day/week/ever without an electric bike to get me up that hill, or I do 8 miles 2x a week with the electric, am I not more athletic? Are firemen who use a hose that is powered by a pump less athletic than those who carry water in buckets?
If I'm normally sitting stationary and I do anything movement at all am I not, in fact, pushing the limits of my body?
My mom was 80, and had a stroke. She couldn't lift her toes on the right side, making it hard to walk without tripping. These shoes are for "everyday athletes". Does this make her completely unathletic, or do they, in fact, allow her to become more athletic than she could be otherwise?
If it were solely about pushing the limits of the body, cyclists wouldn’t obsess about aerodynamics nearly as much and competitions would be about average watts over n-minutes or something like that.
Random point (and definitely not agreeing with OP), but Zwift (and probably others before) has brought on an age of watts/kg competitions.
And a lot of being aerodynamic on a bike is athleticism: you need to be flexible enough and appropriately trained to be in the right posture. The bike frames, skinsuits, etc, are all in the "marginal gains" territory.
I still think OP's take is wrong though.
I’ve heard of dirt jumpers using e-bikes to get more laps in for training to help them get familiar with the track.
Are you saying they are not athletic because they didn’t do all their training on a push bike?
I'd like such technology very much, as I lack about 80% of my calf muscles due to an auto immune disease. I can't walk without a (non powered) exo skeleton, and perhaps with these I can walk stairs again.
Maybe you can checkout the Dephy Exoboot: https://www.dephy.com No idea how far along they are though, but looks like they are open for early access.
I'm sure you've already seen https://eu.hypershell.tech
I'm hopeful these get cheaper, smaller and lighter, and more powerful. Would be great to have these accessible to a lot of people.
I completely agree my mother has MS and I have my own autoimmune issues. Something like this would be extremely helpful for people with debilitating diseases that cause muscle deterioration.
Wow, that's awful. Have you looked into the existing powered exoskeletons? Or are those too hip/thigh focused to help?
There's some excellent knee ones, too
Are you using something like this? Do you get back most of your previous functionality?
https://newatlas.com/unpowered-ankle-exoskeleton-walking-eff...
I'm a huge fan of "slightly better walking/running" kind of tech. Unfortunately, current technology lends itself to devices that are slightly too heavy. I have a pair of Shift Moonwalkers[0] that I was hoping would fulfill that role.
A motorcycle accident interrupted my fitness program and it took quite a lot of work to get back to where I am. During that period there were many times when I was (minorly) injured repeatedly since all my muscles were just not strong enough to do things and I wasn't disciplined about them.
I picked up some persistent tendinitis that is just healing with some physiotherapy. Things like this aren't terribly limiting in life but the primary problem is that a lot of the stuff you have to do is rest the appropriate body part! And to rest it, you need to not do things. I don't want to not do things. I want to do things while resting the appropriate part of my body.
And I bet as I get older, all this stuff will catch up. So anything that will extend mobility to my elderly years (still far away) is great. If I do the right things, my body will function well into my 80s and if the tech is there hopefully I'll walk around with my grandkids. All in all, I'm hoping that material science in batteries, motors, and frames and product design all do a big leap in this in the next 40 years. The market is likely there with our aging population.
0: Here's an example of me using them after I got used to them https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qc5PKbJ3tq4
I am that older guy. For sure it catches up.
For those of you who don’t “see the point” of a device like this, what you are failing to see is your own personal use case.
The use cases I can see for others are “anyone who might find this useful or fun”. To me, that means
1) people with medically compromised joints who would like to engage in experiences that their bodies don’t currently allow.
2) people who want to challenge themselves by making these joint additions add more resistance.
3) people who want more strength and/or power for any reason. “Fun” is a valid use case.
These joint enhancements exist for hips, knees, and with this, now ankles. The logical end for this is a powered exoskeleton (and, after that, power armor).
> 1) people with medically compromised joints who would like to engage in experiences that their bodies don’t currently allow.
And medically compromised muscles, nervous systems, etc. I know someone in that situation who loves scooters. They say it's like flying - they finally can move at will, instead of the lifelong difficulty and pain of walking.
I find running incredibly boring, because the scenery changes so damn slowly around you. I would happily put in the same effort for the same time, but go substantially faster to make it more fun.
Not sure I would buy this product, but I see more than 0 use for it.
> because the scenery changes so damn slowly around you
Have you considered running faster?
But seriously though, I’ve gotten pretty decent at running (3h15min marathon PR) and the difference between hiking a trail and running the same trail is kinda bonkers. These days I can run a trail in 2 hours that took me 6 hours to hike 10 years ago. Hits totally different. The whole dynamic changes.
Hiking feels immensely boring now
PS: If you run fast enough you don’t even notice the scenery.
I mean... I run as fast/far as fitness permits. I'm not going slowly on purpose!
If you go at light speed across the universe, the scenery would also not change, until you collide with something.
When you collide with something at light speed, you become the scenery (and the former scenery is no more), no?
Get a bike ;)
Getting off topic but this is exactly why, after never running for fun in my life, I got into cycling (a hobby that admittedly can easily turn expensive even if it doesn't have to).
Instead of running 10km in an hour, I could bike from Silicon Valley to the ocean and back in 3-4 hours, and have views over city, hills, oceans, suburbia, etc.
> 1) people with medically compromised joints who would like to engage in experiences that their bodies don’t currently allow.
They say:
> Engineered to augment natural lower leg and ankle movement
Meanwhile, most people who can't walk/run as they would like have issues from their knees upward.
Worse, having heavier lower leg means more strain on the upper leg.
Yes, there's probably a narrow niche of people with lower leg only issues that can be helped by this device, but most people have issues upward ; and this device have the potential to create issues upward on people not yet concerned by them.
If it was a medical company I'd agree a bit more. But it's Nike. They'll sell that to any person who thinks walking is too hard even though it's not in his best medical interest.
It sounds great, but I’m skeptical that it will actually help without messing up the natural motion.
There is nothing natural about the motions of running in modern running shoes, and yet people learn. Getting the behavior right will be difficult, I'm sure, but not impossible.
Yeah, but do they still work when us-east-1 goes down?
if it does I am buying this for my daughter to replace roomba which doesn’t :)
... Because currently, your daughter rides around on a Roomba? And this will allow her similar freedom of movement, but more fault-tolerant?
He obviously plans to get his daughter to vacuum the house with her new found mobility.
All the "athlete" and "farther" and "faster" talk is all well and good, but kids are going to buy these, hack them, and use them to create the next generation of impossible dance moves.
Sounds pretty exciting to me.
Two possibilities can be true at once. I look forward to seeing both
Yep that's why I said "all well and good" instead of "total hogwash" or the like.
Wild! Looks like it pulls your heel up so reduces energy requirement of each up stroke? Seems like it would need to be super light to offset carrying more mass?
"designed to help everyday athletes* go a little bit faster and farther" When is the last time an athlete said I'm looking to go a little faster and farther with the aid of a powered device? Their target market is all wrong. This would be great if aimed towards low mobility users.
> an athlete said I'm looking to go a little faster and farther with the aid of a powered device
isn't that a time-honoured tradition at tour de france?
I'm sure it's science fiction right now but a pair of shoes that could teach you to do a kick flip would be pretty amazing.
Pair with some power gloves to catch your fall and maybe I can learn to skateboard as my mid life crisis activity down the road.
Pales in comparison to Soviet science ;-):
> the power comes from pistons that are filled with a fuel-air mixture, and fired by compression when the user puts his or her full body weight down into the boot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_boots
https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/these-gas-powered-bo...
Seems to be these ones, and bunch of more videos in the description too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJvmAXCh6Ak
> This makes it easier for everyday athletes to walk or run more often, for longer amounts of time, while having more fun — adding movement to their lives, extending their walking commute, or helping them to enjoy the run for another mile or two.
The people I know who run all do it for the exercise, not because they like the running. Why would you want to extend it?
> The people I know who run all do it for the exercise, not because they like the running.
That sounds like torture. Why would you voluntarily practice a form of exercise that you actively dislike, when there are basically infinite options to get the same benefits in different ways?
Believe it or not, many people who stick with running do it because they enjoy it.
I became a runner by elimination: I needed to do something for "cardiac hygiene". Swimming has a setup cost (you need to go to a pool). Cycling takes too long, so running it became. I run 40-50km/week, and honestly I do not like it. Anyway, I do enjoy the mental health side effects too.
I don't really like and never liked running; I mean, I don't like it as I like skateboarding, which makes me all butterfly hyped just thinking about riding a board and doing even the dumbest simplest tricks.
But I do like the effects of running, which I don't seem to be able to emulate any other way. I can't say it's torture - it should never be nor feel like torture otherwise you're doing it wrong - but it was certainly a learned taste of sorts.
It's more like this human body has been shaped to do this by aeons of evolution, and over time it feels immensely rewarding after the fact when done properly for a given fitness level.
You don't have to like running, your body does already (but might have forgotten)
>Why would you voluntarily practice a form of exercise that you actively dislike, when there are basically infinite options to get the same benefits in different ways?
If there are other, more enjoyable, ways to get a similarly cardo-intensive workout that are equally convenient I'd love to hear them.
I like cycling. But in practice it is difficult to get my heart rate as high in a sustained way - at least, where I live. A similar level of workout takes a lot longer.
So yeah, hit me with some of these infinite possibilities please.
"If one could run without getting tired I don't think one would often want to do anything else" -C.S. Lewis, The Last Battle
Because now they might dislike it less (depending on what they dislike). People do more of things they like.
Why did they picked sport they dont like?
The people I know who stuck to running long term like it.
I run for exercise, but I also genuinely enjoy it as an activity
I understand what you're saying on an intellectual level.
Related:
Nike's plans to put the swoosh back into its sales
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/oct/23/just-redo-it-i...
I like this. I like walking, and I already walk quite fast, but I'd like to see more while I walk. (Though, as I'm thinking about it right now, I might also just consciously practice walking faster.)
Has anyone 3d printed something similar? Looks doable - motors and servos are really cheap on AliExpress
When Nike was working on the Mags (self-lacing) there were lots of hobby projects to try and build the same thing, but none of them could come close to the finish and integration that Nike could manage with their resources and industrial processes.
These Amplify are pretty complicated:
https://youtu.be/Nz2Y0e7SgFY?t=404
So Nike is the apple of shors
Are there any actual videos of this, you know, in use? All I see is a bunch of 3d renders of it. There isn't even a picture of a Nike executive holding a prototype.
https://youtu.be/Psp3YarOKVw
Mrwhosetheboss did a video on the new Nike stuff including these
The batteries belong on a hip belt, not down where the foot swings
> rechargeable cuff battery that seamlessly integrate with a carbon fiber–plated running shoe
I imagine this is dual-use technology. Surely there must have once been a Darpa project along these lines.
How would this impact muscle development? Is the motion "natural', not just for e.g. the calf but also all the (minor) other muscles?
Also. Would this change strain put on e.g knee joints, ankles, hips or spine?
I’m going to be ripped once the powered arms do my lifting for me.
Come to think of it, why is Superman muscular?
This is godawful, I hate it. If you aren't physically disabled or injured you have no business using this kind of thing. I do not want to live in the world where otherwise fully-capable human beings are not even using their own legs to walk anymore either because they can't be bothered to get off the couch for an hour a day or because they don't have the time to improve their health.
Absolutely disgusting nonsense. Get off my lawn, robot hippies
I don’t get the point. Maybe there’s a therapy angle? But otherwise if someone wanted to go faster they could go to a bike, e-bike, or car.
Bikes and cars are modes of transport. They're optimal for getting around at high speeds, but when you don't need them, you need to leave them somewhere, they're large and not very convenient. On the other hand, these are shoes. You put them on in the morning and can wear them anywhere outside, they're not separate things you need to handle. I can definitely see demand for this from people who walk all day long for their jobs (warehouse workers, military, etc) or hikers/runners who want to stretch their endurance over a larger distance.
I would like to have something like this if it helped me with e.g. shin splints, or similar, because I really love running, but I tend to overdo it and I don't have any other options than asphalt to run on. Not sure if this one would be good for shin splits though. I guess this could potentially just be a fun thing to run a bit faster, but that alone wouldn't be worth it for me. But if it allowed me to balance where the strain goes, then yeah.
I was going to comment the same thing, rather than push off harder, I'd hope it help brace for impact and relieve some of the weaker muscles.
Yes, I should perhaps be doing strength training, but I have limited hours to exercise and I'd prefer to spend them running rather than training so that eventually I could be running.
Another thing that happens is that your technique gets worse during longer runs, making you more prone to injuries. Maybe a device like this could either support you so you can run longer runs or compensate to make sure you don't hurt yourself.
So if this device helps with reducing running based injuries, I'm all for it
I have an electric cargo bike that I put in one of the lowest settings, if I cycle at the top speed it doesn't help much if at all. But accelerating from a dead stop is nice. This could be similar
Off topic, but for what it's worth I'm getting myself a rowing machine to try and alleviate my running cravings, especially as winter is coming. I'm not sure if it will be able to reproduce the feelings I get from running as I haven't done rowing enough, but running seems to be the only thing I've found that puts me into this flow state. Cycling is too limited, legs only, HR doesn't get high enough, so hopefully rowing is better due to it being full body. Rowing won't be outside and I won't be physically moving around so that may be the downside. But the metrics to achieve should be much more consistent and comparable compared to if there's many weather changes otherwise, so looking forward to seeing progress there.
Fwiw I find the stairmaster to be the least boring of the cardio machines when looking for a replacement for running.
That thing will make you sweat.
Have you tried rowing and you found that more boring? I feel like rowing with added bonus of training more muscles would seem most fun?
Yeah tried it and I personally found it less fun.
The tension on the hands feels very good though. And I do wonder if it also trains muscles around ankles that will help prevent shin splints.
It’s somewhat funny that you mention shin splints and technique breakdown, both of which can be helped through regular gym going but also want a shortcut rather than the obvious solution.
Shin splints really do suck though, I had some that put me off running for about 12 months.
Maybe they can be helped, and I've read suggestions like these as well, but I used to do a lot of strength training, including not skipping leg days, and still got shin splints. So strength training might decrease odds for some people, but I don't feel like it would be deciding factor for me.
Might be good for the last mile commuting problem, where people need a way to get from their home to a bus stop that is a mile or two away. A bicycle is not a good solution because then you have to take it on to the bus and to your destination.
Lots of people walk long ways for different reasons. I'm very dubious that this will ever be a thing but there's definitely a market.
I want to see a competitive sports event like the Olympics where this sort of technology is allowed.
I wish that existed too. Not just an event to see how far the human body can be pushed naturally, but also another one to see how far it can be pushed, period. There would still need to be regulation to ensure that people didn't actively harm themselves (like extreme doping or something), but other augmentations like exoskeletons and such would be allowed.
I see this more applicable to the military and law enforcement, but yes also for the elderly and disabled. Yeah, the opening line with “athletes” doesn’t make sense.
There are already powered leg augmentations on the market for $3-5k, but these are much smaller.
I assume there is a military angle here.
It sounds fun tbh (not to mention all the potential medical uses)
What about a hike just on the edge of your ability?
"In 2027, mechanically-augmented people all over the world suffered from extreme psychotic delusions, lost control of themselves, and started attacking people. Millions died. Hundreds of thousands more were injured and maimed. In the wake of this global catastrophe, society has become divided by hatred, prejudice, and fear, with many countries now enacting harsh laws. The most notable of these laws is the highly controversial “Human Restoration Act”, aimed at isolating “Augs” and keeping them away from “Naturals”."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-MU5MgRV6U
It's a start, but we're going to need a powered full exoskeleton, with armor, for fighting Nazis.
These are already common in China, and Nike will rip you off with the price for "western engineering".
> These are already common in China
Link?
> and Nike will rip you off with the price for "western engineering".
It's the brand more than anything. Nike's brand commands a premium.
I've quite literally never seen a product like this on the market, so as far as I'm concerned if Nike is the first to Western market with the product, and they do a good job introducing it, it's their innovation.
It's like with Nintendo and Apple. They're quite frequently not the first to develop a technology, but they take things and popularize them. Digital cameras, motion control, touch screens, smartphones, tablet gaming devices, ...
Can you link some? I can only find the hip exoskeletons.
> Nike’s Project Amplify is the world’s first powered footwear system for running and walking,
So this is straight up false?
The Moonwalkers from Shift Robotics from 2022 come to mind, but are noticeably different. Or the Dephy Exoboot: https://www.dephy.com which is also 'the first'
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