I have a Tesla, and have driven BYD's. The BYD computer system started to run so slowly it's voice driving directions became unrecognizable, then it rebooted itself while on the highway. After rebooting it worked for a while, then the voice started stuttering again. Do do get of lot of BYD for your money, but there is lot of sizzle compared to the Tesla sausage.
Tesla cop's a lot of crap. Most of it about is how they perform relative to Elon's promises. That's an awfully high bar, as no car a consumer can buy can come close to what Elon been promising for Tesla. Despite missing that bar by miles, the reality is they are probably the best EV you can buy right now, but they priced accordingly, at a premium (albeit not a huge one).
My primary concern about Tesla is whether it will exist in it's current form in 5 or 10 years time. You can't trust a word it's CEO says, it's meme stock whose share price must tank to a fraction of it's current value and it's corporate vision seems to be more focused humanoid robots than cars. It's competitors will catch up.
I'm told Tesla's are hard to repair, but their support is stellar where I live. A man who only works on Tesls's fixed the tail light my wife smashed while it was parked at home, and upgraded a few other things, all for free. Their charging network is second to none. While all that continues, I recon they deserve to sell a lot of cars. I hope it continues.
They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so.
They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles, and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
It's not too surprising that VW sells the most EV's in their domestic (EU) market that still has significant EV incentives in place. If anything they should be selling more but they managed to screw up their software situation pretty badly. Once they integrate what they've licensed from Rivian, that situation should improve.
> I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself.
VW seem to have been consciously moving attention away from the VW brand for a while. In particular, brands like SEAT and Skoda, which a few decades ago were primarily local brands, are now promoted Europe-wide.
VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present.
Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027.
Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.
... I mean, VW Group is the largest seller of EVs in Europe. How are you defining 'winning' here? Some sort of monopoly?
The whole "electric cars in Europe" thing is a fascinating example of what the media finds interesting vs reality. If you got caught up in the media coverage, you'd probably think it was Tesla vs BYD. Here is the reality: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Bar/All-time-by-Ye... (you can definitely see the impact of the Swasticar Problem in 2025).
In the past decade, Tesla has spent maybe a year in the lead. It is currently the smallest player in the top eight. BYD is not even _in_ the top eight. It is not even the best-selling Chinese manufacturer; that'd be Geely (which does just scrape into the top eight).
(Minor caveat on these numbers: IMO Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi is not a _proper_ auto group, and should probably be split out.)
From the media's point of view, the trouble is that "VW is selling a lot of cars" is a _boring_ narrative; that is what one expects to happen. "Two foreign companies are jockeying for position in the market" is a somewhat more interesting one, even if neither actually sells very many cars.
>It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles
Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market.
>they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level?
Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.
VW is already the EV leader by sales, Stellantis will follow suit by the end of the decade at top 2.
There are few important reasons:
1. VW and Stellantis combine a huge array of relevant (in EU) brands including (by memory) Jeep, Maserati, Audi, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Lancia, Seat, Cupra, Lancia, Skoda, Volkswagen, Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Lamborghini.
2. VW and Stellantis have already all the network made of service, parts, dealerships.
3. All markets are different, and as you can imagine European brands know how to build cars for that market.
4. Both companies are gigantic and well diversified across the globe with their supply chains and plenty of deals with Chinese ev and battery makers. Even if the Chinese end up dominating the European market, they will still have to build here and do it in a JV.
Why Stellantis? They are in far worse shape than the competition, their strategy of having one car which is available as ICE and EV seems doomed to failure and their ties to the US will greatly weaken them, as the markets seem to diverge rapidly. Developing ICE only for the US with no ability to sell them in Europe seems dubious, at the same time they can not abandon the US or only sell EVs there.
Renault has actually better products than Stellantis and far fewer of the problems.
I've been eyeing the Touring edition of the Seal 6 DM-i (https://www.byd.com/eu/hybrid-cars/seal-6-dm-i-touring), which supposedly gets up to ~1300KM on one tank. I've test driven it, feels nice and not as plasticky as I thought it would be, but I'm not entirely convinced it'll actually be able to do the distance as marketed. By any chance, have anyone already gotten it themselves and could share their experience, or know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?
As someone living in NL, I wish VW made exactly this.
Why?
I know I can bring my car to the workshop nearby and they will be able to procure parts and service it.
As a customer, I want a reliable mainstream PHEV car that doesn’t _need_ over the air updates, unnecessary complexities, subscriptions etc and gives me the confidence that I can use it for the next 10 years with regular maintenance.
Right, seems we want the same thing, is this something you're afraid of if you would buy a BYD, I'm guessing since this is a reply to my comment?
Personally, seems they have workshops all over the country, and as one of the biggest EV brands, it won't be hard to find parts for the mainstream models nor to service it.
AFAIK, the car doesn't require OTA updates, any subscription or similar, or did I miss something went I went through what they actually offer?
WLTP has absolutely nothing to do with real range. It is a totally artificial test scenario, which aims to give comparability and has no connection to any real world ranges.
No, it will not go 1300km, neither will any other vehicle reach its WLTP range during normal usage.
Other reviews on YouTube seems to give it around ~1000km at least, none of them say/indicate they're sponsored, but looking for someone with real experience here. I realize a single benchmark doesn't represent 100% real world usage.
I was answering the question you had about the marketed range. The answer is "no", it will never make 1300km during regular usage.
It is also pointless to ask people about their experience, as the range is extremely dependent on usage habits and location. The experience of other people is worthless unless they closely coincidence with your personal circumstances.
What you should do is compare the 1300km of WLTP range to your current cars WLTP range. That will give you an accurate estimate what 1300km WLTP will mean for you.
All you answered was "Is WLTP representative of real world usage?", which was not a question I asked, I asked: "know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?".
Like anyone else, I'm aware that marketing material is difference from reality, which is exactly why I'm asking for other people's experience.
> It is also pointless to ask people about their experience
You know what's more pointless? Answering questions no one asked, that you don't know the answer to, and that aren't aimed at you in the first place. You don't have to answer, you can let others with the knowledge do instead.
To be honest I am a bit disgusted how you treat someone who is trying to help you and is trying to explain to you what the 1300km means. Again it is not just marketing, it is a metric for comparison.
I am trying to explain to you that asking for others people experience is not going to help you. Because one person will only ever get 700km of range and another person will easily get 1100km of range. Making a buying decision based on who of these people responds to you is obviously not good.
I am trying to explain to you that there is a way that you can get an extremely accurate figure of how much range you can get from the car. You can do this by comparing the WLTP range of a car you know well to that WLTP range.
Your question is a bad question, because the answers you will get can not help you make an informed decision. If you do not want an informed decision go ahead and seek out "experience", instead of utilizing the WLTP metric to get an understanding of what range you can expect.
Vehicle range is not something you can compare between owners, what people say there experience is not representative of what your experience will be.
So, let me ask you: Do you want know whether the car has enough range for you or do you want to know of the existence of people who get some arbitrary range between 700 and 1100 kilometers of range? Because for every value in between you will find someone who will only get that range. Does that help you at all make a decision?
Car range is not something like towing weight or motor performance.
I don't know if you've spent too much time "answering" questions on Stack Overflow or what the problem is, but I'm not asking about how WLTP works or what single variable I should use for a purchasing decision.
All I asked for is people's personal experience. You don't have that, that's fine, but don't claim you're trying to help someone when you're actively steering the conversation away from what I'm asking about.
If someone asks some specific question, they might have a reason for asking that specific question, and you assuming they haven't done something else because of that question, feels like you're less interested in helping and more interested in proving something to yourself.
> Do you want know whether the car has enough range for you or do you want to know of the existence of people who get some arbitrary range between 700 and 1100 kilometers of range?
I want to know peoples personal experience about this specific model, which I thought was clear from my first comment, but apparently not. I'm not interested in the mechanics of WLTP, the history of WLTP, what other things I should be looking for when buying a car, how to install a charger for the car, what the value of EVs are currently, what alternatives exists or anything else. Just the personal and biased experience of others who have bought that car, or know someone else who have.
It's not the first car I'm buying, and I'm not looking for a "buyers guide", a terminology reference or anything else, just "I own/know someone who owns the car, here is how I subjectively feel about it".
I just answered the question you should be asking. I did not answer the question, which has no possibility of helping you with making an informed decision.
we cant get BYD in Canada, yet.
the argument of "unfair" trade practice against China, is cringy now, but crow is still better eating than stareing at an empty plate.
And once in, BYD stuff will be here to stay if it lives up to it's reputation for solid no nonsense reliable transpo, plus they are saying they will build them here, which will trigger a bidding frenzy with the US "reshoring" plants and then trying to strong arm Canadians into buying strait from them, which may be backfiring as Canada is going through unprecidented changes due to the combined effects of an aging ,born in Canada population, and a huge influx of young ambitious english speaking imigrants from everywhere but England/Europe/US.
Another major factor is that China has the most verticaly integrated supply chains, and everybody else is in dissaray playing games ,favorites ,deals!, deals!, deals!, and Japan cant step in as they are at capacity.
That a huge, HUGE, chunk of the younger population cant own a car, and that BYD is doing deals with rental and cab companies, means that those younger people will have there first automotive fun, in a Chinese electric, and will associate the established brands with denied opportunities or worse, opression.
They make good cars, they deserve to sell.
But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis.
No foreign car company really stands a chance in the European market imho (besides Toyota of course).
I have a Tesla, and have driven BYD's. The BYD computer system started to run so slowly it's voice driving directions became unrecognizable, then it rebooted itself while on the highway. After rebooting it worked for a while, then the voice started stuttering again. Do do get of lot of BYD for your money, but there is lot of sizzle compared to the Tesla sausage.
Tesla cop's a lot of crap. Most of it about is how they perform relative to Elon's promises. That's an awfully high bar, as no car a consumer can buy can come close to what Elon been promising for Tesla. Despite missing that bar by miles, the reality is they are probably the best EV you can buy right now, but they priced accordingly, at a premium (albeit not a huge one).
My primary concern about Tesla is whether it will exist in it's current form in 5 or 10 years time. You can't trust a word it's CEO says, it's meme stock whose share price must tank to a fraction of it's current value and it's corporate vision seems to be more focused humanoid robots than cars. It's competitors will catch up.
I'm told Tesla's are hard to repair, but their support is stellar where I live. A man who only works on Tesls's fixed the tail light my wife smashed while it was parked at home, and upgraded a few other things, all for free. Their charging network is second to none. While all that continues, I recon they deserve to sell a lot of cars. I hope it continues.
They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so.
They’re facing the classic innovator’s dilemma. It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles, and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
> They’ve both had a huge window to win the future of the European car market (EVs) and failed to do so
Volkswagen sells the most EVs in Europe. In fact, Volkswagen's EV market share in Europe is currently the highest it's ever been:
https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Line/All-time-by-Q...
Volkswagen owns many brands (VW, Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Cupra, etc.). Their sales are split across many brands and models.
It's not too surprising that VW sells the most EV's in their domestic (EU) market that still has significant EV incentives in place. If anything they should be selling more but they managed to screw up their software situation pretty badly. Once they integrate what they've licensed from Rivian, that situation should improve.
Thanks. I didn’t realize the Volkswagen family of brands was so large.
I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself.
> I was thinking specifically about the VW brand itself.
VW seem to have been consciously moving attention away from the VW brand for a while. In particular, brands like SEAT and Skoda, which a few decades ago were primarily local brands, are now promoted Europe-wide.
VW is the sales leader in EVs in Europe, they don't need to win the future, they are already winning the present.
Also, VW sold half a million EVs in H1 2025, Tesla sold 730k, so even globally they are closer than you think and VW will likely pass Tesla at current growth rates by halfway 2027.
Also, FYI, Europeans haven't been building ICEs for some time. The last (non sports car) serious ICE developed in Europe was the Mercedes Benz OM654 diesel engine.
Thanks for the details and corrections!
... I mean, VW Group is the largest seller of EVs in Europe. How are you defining 'winning' here? Some sort of monopoly?
The whole "electric cars in Europe" thing is a fascinating example of what the media finds interesting vs reality. If you got caught up in the media coverage, you'd probably think it was Tesla vs BYD. Here is the reality: https://eu-evs.com/marketShare/ALL/Groups/Bar/All-time-by-Ye... (you can definitely see the impact of the Swasticar Problem in 2025).
In the past decade, Tesla has spent maybe a year in the lead. It is currently the smallest player in the top eight. BYD is not even _in_ the top eight. It is not even the best-selling Chinese manufacturer; that'd be Geely (which does just scrape into the top eight).
(Minor caveat on these numbers: IMO Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi is not a _proper_ auto group, and should probably be split out.)
From the media's point of view, the trouble is that "VW is selling a lot of cars" is a _boring_ narrative; that is what one expects to happen. "Two foreign companies are jockeying for position in the market" is a somewhat more interesting one, even if neither actually sells very many cars.
>It will be incredibly difficult for them to build great EVs while the bulk of the money they make is through selling ICE vehicles
Current VW Models can compete with Tesla on equal footing. By sales VW is the defacto winner of the European EV Market.
>they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
VW has been developing the MEB Platform since a decade. It has not developed a new ICE Platform in that time. How are they culturally "prioritizing" ICE, when they have completely abandoned ICE development on a platform level?
Going back to ICE would be a total disaster for VW, the company is completely all in on electrification.
> and more importantly, they’re culturally ICE prioritizing companies.
Some people still need a reason to carry a 1 Ton battery with them all the time. /s
Care to expand on why VW and Stellantis are going to dominate the EV market?
VW is already the EV leader by sales, Stellantis will follow suit by the end of the decade at top 2.
There are few important reasons:
1. VW and Stellantis combine a huge array of relevant (in EU) brands including (by memory) Jeep, Maserati, Audi, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Porsche, Lancia, Seat, Cupra, Lancia, Skoda, Volkswagen, Opel, Peugeot, Citroen, Lamborghini.
2. VW and Stellantis have already all the network made of service, parts, dealerships.
3. All markets are different, and as you can imagine European brands know how to build cars for that market.
4. Both companies are gigantic and well diversified across the globe with their supply chains and plenty of deals with Chinese ev and battery makers. Even if the Chinese end up dominating the European market, they will still have to build here and do it in a JV.
The government will keep changing the rules until VW wins. Using tariffs, price floors, subsidies, whatever it takes.
European and national politics have been anything but kind to European automakers for quite some time.
Why Stellantis? They are in far worse shape than the competition, their strategy of having one car which is available as ICE and EV seems doomed to failure and their ties to the US will greatly weaken them, as the markets seem to diverge rapidly. Developing ICE only for the US with no ability to sell them in Europe seems dubious, at the same time they can not abandon the US or only sell EVs there.
Renault has actually better products than Stellantis and far fewer of the problems.
> But imho the king of EVs in Europe by the end of the decade are going to be Volkswagen and Stellantis.
If they manage to fix their SW bugs, at a competitive price, maybe.
I've been eyeing the Touring edition of the Seal 6 DM-i (https://www.byd.com/eu/hybrid-cars/seal-6-dm-i-touring), which supposedly gets up to ~1300KM on one tank. I've test driven it, feels nice and not as plasticky as I thought it would be, but I'm not entirely convinced it'll actually be able to do the distance as marketed. By any chance, have anyone already gotten it themselves and could share their experience, or know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?
As someone living in NL, I wish VW made exactly this.
Why?
I know I can bring my car to the workshop nearby and they will be able to procure parts and service it.
As a customer, I want a reliable mainstream PHEV car that doesn’t _need_ over the air updates, unnecessary complexities, subscriptions etc and gives me the confidence that I can use it for the next 10 years with regular maintenance.
Right, seems we want the same thing, is this something you're afraid of if you would buy a BYD, I'm guessing since this is a reply to my comment?
Personally, seems they have workshops all over the country, and as one of the biggest EV brands, it won't be hard to find parts for the mainstream models nor to service it.
AFAIK, the car doesn't require OTA updates, any subscription or similar, or did I miss something went I went through what they actually offer?
WLTP has absolutely nothing to do with real range. It is a totally artificial test scenario, which aims to give comparability and has no connection to any real world ranges.
No, it will not go 1300km, neither will any other vehicle reach its WLTP range during normal usage.
Other reviews on YouTube seems to give it around ~1000km at least, none of them say/indicate they're sponsored, but looking for someone with real experience here. I realize a single benchmark doesn't represent 100% real world usage.
I was answering the question you had about the marketed range. The answer is "no", it will never make 1300km during regular usage.
It is also pointless to ask people about their experience, as the range is extremely dependent on usage habits and location. The experience of other people is worthless unless they closely coincidence with your personal circumstances.
What you should do is compare the 1300km of WLTP range to your current cars WLTP range. That will give you an accurate estimate what 1300km WLTP will mean for you.
All you answered was "Is WLTP representative of real world usage?", which was not a question I asked, I asked: "know someone else who did and know more or less how far they can go?".
Like anyone else, I'm aware that marketing material is difference from reality, which is exactly why I'm asking for other people's experience.
> It is also pointless to ask people about their experience
You know what's more pointless? Answering questions no one asked, that you don't know the answer to, and that aren't aimed at you in the first place. You don't have to answer, you can let others with the knowledge do instead.
To be honest I am a bit disgusted how you treat someone who is trying to help you and is trying to explain to you what the 1300km means. Again it is not just marketing, it is a metric for comparison.
I am trying to explain to you that asking for others people experience is not going to help you. Because one person will only ever get 700km of range and another person will easily get 1100km of range. Making a buying decision based on who of these people responds to you is obviously not good.
I am trying to explain to you that there is a way that you can get an extremely accurate figure of how much range you can get from the car. You can do this by comparing the WLTP range of a car you know well to that WLTP range.
Your question is a bad question, because the answers you will get can not help you make an informed decision. If you do not want an informed decision go ahead and seek out "experience", instead of utilizing the WLTP metric to get an understanding of what range you can expect.
Vehicle range is not something you can compare between owners, what people say there experience is not representative of what your experience will be.
So, let me ask you: Do you want know whether the car has enough range for you or do you want to know of the existence of people who get some arbitrary range between 700 and 1100 kilometers of range? Because for every value in between you will find someone who will only get that range. Does that help you at all make a decision?
Car range is not something like towing weight or motor performance.
I don't know if you've spent too much time "answering" questions on Stack Overflow or what the problem is, but I'm not asking about how WLTP works or what single variable I should use for a purchasing decision.
All I asked for is people's personal experience. You don't have that, that's fine, but don't claim you're trying to help someone when you're actively steering the conversation away from what I'm asking about.
If someone asks some specific question, they might have a reason for asking that specific question, and you assuming they haven't done something else because of that question, feels like you're less interested in helping and more interested in proving something to yourself.
> Do you want know whether the car has enough range for you or do you want to know of the existence of people who get some arbitrary range between 700 and 1100 kilometers of range?
I want to know peoples personal experience about this specific model, which I thought was clear from my first comment, but apparently not. I'm not interested in the mechanics of WLTP, the history of WLTP, what other things I should be looking for when buying a car, how to install a charger for the car, what the value of EVs are currently, what alternatives exists or anything else. Just the personal and biased experience of others who have bought that car, or know someone else who have.
It's not the first car I'm buying, and I'm not looking for a "buyers guide", a terminology reference or anything else, just "I own/know someone who owns the car, here is how I subjectively feel about it".
I just answered the question you should be asking. I did not answer the question, which has no possibility of helping you with making an informed decision.
Tesla is cooked.
we cant get BYD in Canada, yet. the argument of "unfair" trade practice against China, is cringy now, but crow is still better eating than stareing at an empty plate. And once in, BYD stuff will be here to stay if it lives up to it's reputation for solid no nonsense reliable transpo, plus they are saying they will build them here, which will trigger a bidding frenzy with the US "reshoring" plants and then trying to strong arm Canadians into buying strait from them, which may be backfiring as Canada is going through unprecidented changes due to the combined effects of an aging ,born in Canada population, and a huge influx of young ambitious english speaking imigrants from everywhere but England/Europe/US. Another major factor is that China has the most verticaly integrated supply chains, and everybody else is in dissaray playing games ,favorites ,deals!, deals!, deals!, and Japan cant step in as they are at capacity. That a huge, HUGE, chunk of the younger population cant own a car, and that BYD is doing deals with rental and cab companies, means that those younger people will have there first automotive fun, in a Chinese electric, and will associate the established brands with denied opportunities or worse, opression.
Alternative headline: European car market to be taken over by BYD in near future.