> but will instead need to use the digital boarding pass generated in their “myRyanair” app during check-in to board their Ryanair flight.
And of course it's only possible using a specific proprietary app. You'd think a penny-pinching company would want to use open standard to save money instead of develop a custom app, right? I'm 100% sure this is done intentionally to scoop up as much personal data from their customers.
Yeah, it's right up there with the rest of the shady business practices.
Delta, for example, charges more physical cash for a cash+miles ticket than for a pure cash ticket (every time I've been inclined to try to use miles over the last few years anyway). I get that they maybe don't meet the legal barrier for fraud, but even a child can see that it's unethical.
Toss in the seat-selection UI (strongly suggesting you have to select a seat if you don't know the game and figure out how to exit that menu, but every possible seat has an upcharge above the ticket price), "trip insurance" which is insanely overpriced and mostly only covers the things the airline is already required to reimburse you for, and everything else they do, and it's obvious that when a new anti-feature comes out (mandatory app usage being the latest and greatest) it just exists to scam a few more dollars out of you and lie a bit more about the true ticket price.
I literally have just got home from a Ryanair flight where they provided me with no option but a paper boarding pass for my daughter.
It’s essentially a result of a crazy hack they’ve implemented to support families who have Ryanair prime.
You can only name adults as Ryanair prime members, and when you book through a Ryanair prime account, you can only book for the named members. There’s a maximum of two per account, as it’s intended for couples. The kids, aged 2-16, you have to make a “linked booking”. You don’t get boarding passes through the app or email - the only option is to go to a customer service desk and have them print you a paper boarding pass.
Also… digital boarding passes are an open standard - IATA BCBP. You can go make your own.
Ill-intentioned persons may falsify their BCBP by changing the flight number or class of service.
They may also simply print two copies of the BCBP and pass one to a friend, or even create a
counterfeit BCBP. Technical solutions exist, e.g. algorithms, called certificates, which can for
example secure the bar code if necessary.
Their goal is not my goal. My goal is to fly to a destination. A paper ticket has always been enough for that. And if they want to upsell a web page can be full of upselling too. But I don't want upsells, only a flight and air companies are commodities. Imagine if I had to install an app for every chain of gas pumps around my country and the nearby ones.
I think with these kinds of ideological issues, all one can do is vote with their wallet. Nobody is forcing you to fly Ryanair, there are other choices, and if you don't like their practices, don't fly with them. If enough people do it, then they might change their ways, but if their 80% number is accurate, you're probably just stuck not flying with them anymore and nobody else is going to care but you, unfortunately.
Not trying to be rude at all... you said their goal is not yours, so that's why you choose not to do business with them. Every business can't please everyone at the same time.
> I think with these kinds of ideological issues, all one can do is vote with their wallet
Needs to be viewed in the light of the distinctly un-open market in which airlines operate. There are only so many airports, and only so many slots. I might wish to start another airline which customers may use an open solution but the reality is that incumbents have a massive moat around them. No market, that I know of, is perfect but air travel is an unusually distorted one.
This was going to be my comment. "vote with your wallet" only works in open competitive markets. But (with a few exceptions), this is not the world we live in. Regulation is the only option left. You have to vote with your vote to get laws in place that force industry to behave better.
Though much less distorted in the EU than in the US. It's common to have the choice between 2-3 different airlines to get from one place to another, and if that's not good enough the next major airport is frequently just a 2-3 hour train journey away
In many European segments we're finding them comparably priced. If we factor getting to the Ryanair airports, luggage, etc., sometimes we're better off flying, say, Brussels Airlines. And I'd happily buy food in Ryanair flights if their catalogue had any proper food.
I refuse to ever fly Southwest because of their history of open seating. I refuse to ever fly Spirit or other American discount airlines because I want to keep the nickle and diming to a minimum. I fly less than I could if I sought out rock bottom airfares, and that’s ok.
True for everybody but Tesla. If you have a Tesla you install the app once to enter your credit card and then you can delete the app if you wish. All you need to recharge is the ability to drive the car (which doesn't require the app).
I don't think it helps if you're arguing their position. We don't want to allow them to upsell. They're crossing the line into social ostracization grounds.
At this point, their destruction of social trust is so severe that simply boycotting is not enough, just like you don't just boycott a company that's doing environmental destruction. They simply need to be stopped, regardless of their goals.
I used this app over the weekend, it's actually quite handy. Can't help but notice those priority boarding and seat selection buttons while checking for the gate number. You can also order food from your phone in the cabin using some magical Bluetooth protocol I didn't understand
Just to be clear I think their policy is horrifically abusive, but I can totally see why they're doing it
Last year I purchased a ticket to a Broadway show in NYC. I refused to use their digital ticketing nonsense, and when I showed up at the box office just before showtime and said my phone wasn't working (for my own definition of "working") they just handed me paper tickets. So I have to believe every one of these companies must have a way of issuing tickets when people's phones "don't work."
It moves the app one notch back from mandatory, but that's still enough to be a real problem. That method is going to have very low capacity and if you lie about your phone being dead or elsewhere that might screw you over.
There's a YouTube video that talks about how valuable the major US airlines reward program is. The market cap of each airline is less than the value of each airline's reward program at the time the video was made.
I recall Apple was valued in a similar manner back in the late 1990s. Their market cap was barely more than cash on hand. Talk about missed investing opportunities...
i cant believe i'm about to defend Ryanair but just fwiw it seems quite normal to do a custom app specifically for tickets, for anticheat purposes + the nicety of putting your ticket in Apple Wallet is nice enough that i willingly do it for the airlines i fly.
ok that wasnt really defending Ryanair but just being argumentative for the sake of fairness. obviously Ryanair doesn't have Ticketmaster level tech.
It absolutely doesn't take an app to issue a boarding pass which will appear in your Apple Wallet. It's literally a zip (with extension .pkpass) containing a master JSON, a few assets like logos and a digital signature. There are tutorials for making your own.
Many airlines let you download one once you check in on their website, or email you one, or embed a download link in an SMS, just to name 3 alternatives.
Recent experience with United: the SMS option was deeply broken (as in couldn't actually get one boarding pass from the link in SMS). Their kiosks were crap too (as in attendant tries to tell me I'm doing it wrong, then they can't do it, and they finally have to check me in on their own terminal).
Why does a boarding pass need a rootkit? ("anticheat" is usually code for root kits, and at least it has some positive trade off for users in the video game case)
They can just check the scanned pass against their own database to verify authenticity. They could also cryptographically sign it.
It's true that not all apps are hostile, but my pessimism and paranoia aren't unfounded. If you think the current state of software, security, privacy, etc, is fine and dandy and doesn't warrant skepticism, then our shared reality is probably too fractured to have a meaningful debate.
I work in cybersecurity, heading the group in a company you know. I also develop open source software. So I am painfully aware of the pandemic of cybersecurity issues we face professionally and at home.
Progress has its good and bad aspects, and we must fight as much as possible in some battles, and choose them wisely. This is why the EU efforts around privacy are great, and without their drawbacks. But ultimately they are great.
Being infuriated as I see in this thread about the decision of a company to use mobiles as boarding passes is not something I adhere to. One can always fly with another airline that does not have these restrictions, and complain on another thread how expensive this is.
Saying that all of current technology is evil means going off the grid and living a quiet life in a remote forest. This is of course a solution.
Saying that some technology is evil (and it definitely is) means fighting for these specific things to be regulated. Ryan Air's digital boarding passes is not one of them.
I'm not trying to crusade against digital boarding passes, my issue is with normalizing mandatory apps for all the things.
If we had high quality, trusted software, leveraging open standards, that would be one thing, but instead we have janky proprietary snowflake apps that are borderline malware. Like you said, it's a pandemic of cybersecurity issues, so it's hard for me to accept the 'just install the app' mentality.
I agree we should pick our battles, but I don't believe regulation is the only solution worth fighting for. My comment was to nudge cultural change, by pushing back against what I see as a bad practice.
You can usually get the ticket printed at the desk, print it at home, have a PDF on any device like a Kindle, take a screenshot of the QR code, add to your wallet on your phone even without proprietary apps, etc…
I download the airline’s apps, but I hate relying exclusively on these potentially unreliable apps, or unreliable phones so I always get the ticket in other formats, too: always have an analog version, and some form of digital version on at least two devices.
I don’t travel often, but when I do, missing a flight would be expensive or annoying, so it’s a reasonable trade off for me, ymmv. With that said, I also don’t fly Ryanair, so they can do whatever they want.
Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a smartphone (or the battery is dead)? They just can't fly?
And, if their server flaky, does that mean all boarding will stop? If the agents can check people in manually, it seems like the small fraction of people using a paper boarding pass can't be adding much extra cost. If they are saving cost by removing that flow, presumably they are giving up redundancy. Given the quality of airline software, I predict they will see a mass outage within a year.
The whole business model of discount airlines is to cater to the fat part of the bell curve and not the long tails. If you require special accommodation at any point in the process don't fly via a super budget value airline. Even if they do support your use case, they're not in the business of making it easy and they'll hit you with a "fuck you" fee to make it worth their while.
They'll make accommodations, but those will be very budget accommodations and not comfy, just like everything else about them.
Hence why you're better off going with something else. In fact, you're almost always better off going with something else. I'm not a giant, but at 6'4" (1.93 meters) I've found that I absolutely detest most shared transit. Either my legs are too long or shoulders too broad, and even non-budget airlines can be unpleasant to fly in.
I had the misfortune of acquiring a temporary disability while I was overseas and it kind of opened my eyes to how shitty the west treats the disabled. While I was in eastern airports the staff were tripping over themselves to accommodate me. I was assigned at least one person whose entire job was to stay with me and take me where I needed to go. They handled my bags, security, even got me food and drinks when I got hungry. It was beyond respectful. But as soon as I got to the western leg of the journey home I became a burden. I basically just got a wheelchair and my partner had to push me around while juggling our luggage.
It's crazy to see real life proof that it doesn't have to be this way.
Every American I know who has spent time overseas comes back with at least one thing where they can't believe how massively we've screwed it up while also somehow ignoring that it's been being handled far more sensibly by others.
Yeah, disability accommodation laws are pretty weak, even in the countries with the strongest protections. "reasonable" accommodations often equate to situations that still don't actually provide practical accommodations for people.
I'm not sure I understand. It sounds like you're saying you don't like the leg room being so cramped that beyond a certain height you're physically required to angle your knees into a neighboring seat's space. That's surely part of the charm though?
It's bad enough when I have to fight for elbow room with the people next to me. It's a whole 'nother experience to fight for the elbow room of the people in front of me to have a place to put my knees.
It’s true, in my experience at 6’7” it is much nicer to fly private. Shared transport offers a much inferior experience except on long haul flights where you have actual first class, but even then you need to be careful while booking to not accidentally end up on some silly plane.
I once flew from London on Ryanair when the airport's passenger Wi-Fi was completely down, and 4G was completely overloaded as a result as well.
Things were indeed pretty chaotic. I can't remember if they did print paper boarding passes in the end.
> it seems like the small fraction of people using a paper boarding pass can't be adding much extra cost
You're looking at this from the wrong angle: This is Ryanair. Actual cost does not matter, only the opportunity to extract more revenue. Presumably app users are that much more valuable to Ryanair (as they can be upsold various things there, and potentially because it also acts as a filter for a generally less profitable customer segment).
It's also a marketing channel for future flights. The app almost certainly asks for notification permissions, and most people will say yes -- they're useful for knowing if your flight is delayed or there's a gate change.
Now they have a channel where they can let you know about deals, etc. I'm sure they've modeled exactly how much this is worth, and I'd be willing to bet it's a lot.
Isn't that against App Store guidelines? (Not that Apple could afford to kick out Ryanair, but I think they have other options, such as blocking updates until it's been remedied etc.)
The upsell opportunity isn't worth anywhere near $50 though. I suspect it acts as a price discrimination filter. You make people jump through hoops (ie. installing an app) to save some money, with the expectation that people who are willing to jump through hoops are more price sensitive, and would also be willing to switch to another airline.
They already charge that and more if you have to check-in at the airport for any reason. And you cannot check-in online without making an account with them. Ryanair is grift squared.
That said I never had problems boarding with a PDF displayed on the phone screen. Unfortunate that they're going away.
Stupid question here, because I haven't flown with Ryanair in like almost 10 years, but I've recently flown with WizzAir and after checking-in online (the night before) it generated a .pdf boarding pass which I saved on my phone. I was then able to get onto the plane by presenting the QR code from said .pdf, i.e. while I was at the gate, no need for internet access. Does Ryanair do things differently?
These byzantine arguments and justifications and profit motivation and incentive tea readings are so ridiculous at a certain point, I'm surprised so many people wont even consider socializing airlines.
What a cold comfort to a grandma struggling to use an upsell-focused dark patterns app when the wifi is poor at some airport to get home to see her grandkids stuck at some airport to say, "Well, this maximized shareholder revenue."
I feel like I'm in the last stages of 'anything goes' capitalism. The ridiculousness here has hit such levels, especially in the USA, that there must be pushback sooner than later. I dunno how the Irish feel about this considering this is their airline (HQ at least), or their experiences, but on this side of the pond, this has all has reached new levels of absurdity that would make even Kafka blush.
I just randomly checked Dublin to Rome route, for early December. The first 3 cheapest options are Ryanair, the 4th option (Air Lingus) is almost triple the price of the cheapest one, $262 vs $90
That’s your answer. People vote with their wallet.
Contrary to what many replies are telling you, the link clearly states that if you don't own a smartphone, you can check in online and then obtain a boarding pass for free at the airport.
(Not sure how easy that will be or if they actually verify that you don't own a smartphone, etc.)
>Contrary to what many replies are telling you, the link clearly states that if you don't own a smartphone, you can check in online and then obtain a boarding pass for free at the airport.
The press release says absolutely nothing of the sort.
Technically, the vast majority of users don't own their device. They are leasing it through their carrier. Then because it is HN, once the device is paid off, the user still doesn't own it as they cannot use it as they see fit and still must use it as the manufacturer sees fit. So this "own" word is potential for interpretation
Frontier already expects digital boarding passes. I do not own a phone, so they charged me a $25 fee to print one at customer service. Except they also do not accept cash, so I had to go buy a gift card with cash from a vending machine for another $5 fee.
For $30 I could buy an entire discount printer and print one myself.
I've once been in that situation with Ryanair: I booked through some reseller, not knowing that they'd make all bookings using some omnibus Ryanair account they would not share the password for (so mobile app use was out), and only emailed me the boarding pass PDF. But I didn't have a printer...
The airport business center did have one, with a moderate 50 cent per page fee – except if that page contains a boarding pass, in which case it was 8 Euro.
I would've photoshopped the barcode onto a Covid certificate and then ask to print it...
Isn't barcode on the PDF good enough anyway, to be scanned by a machine (either biological or electronic)? Obviously it's Scamair, so they could've imposed dumb rules like "we need the physical paper"
Yup, that's it. They explicitly weren't allowing scanning off of a screen, as far as I remember. (The code on the screen might be fraudulent, after all – can't do that on paper!)
> Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a smartphone (or the battery is dead)?
Or you drop your phone. Or it gets stolen. Or for whatever reason the software fails. Electronic devices are so flimsy, even if you want to use an app it's worth having paper as a backup option. It's the same reason why I always carry cash and a card on me (and I pay in cash as much as possible anyway).
> If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone or tablet dies,
you will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
> If passengers don’t have a smartphone or tablet, as long as they have already
checked-in online before arriving at the airport, they will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
Not to mention that the hard copy always scans flawlessly at the gate. Phone scans, not so much.
Not only does the phone scan not work well, but people often aren't prepared and so the boarding line stalls while people unlock their phone and retrieve the e-ticket.
> Not to mention that the hard copy always scans flawlessly at the gate. Phone scans, not so much.
Not true. Recently I printed a hardcopy of my boarding pass at the airline's kiosk, then found it wouldn't scan at security. Luckily I was able to pull up the barcode on my phone.
Ouch. Perhaps it's a dice roll either way. I guess I just assumed everyone else also had issues with phone tickets, and not with paper. You and your sibling comment have opposite experiences however, so it seems I must retract my statement.
This is simply the mindset of discount airlines. If your battery is dead when you arrive at check-in that's too bad for you. It's in the terms and conditions.
If the server is flaky then boarding will be delayed for everyone and it'll be a whole crapshow but if their overall cost is lower than it would have been with printed boarding passes, fine.
Usually they'll happily help you out with a "late boarding pass printing fee" on the order of a hundred €/$, though.
If this really is a total refusal to do even that, I'd be slightly surprised, but I'm sure their business developers have done the analysis and it makes some sense to them.
You would also be surprised at how 'tech savvy' non-tech people are in the UK. It is quite common for non-tech people to screenshot train ticket QR codes just in case they have no signal at the station yet none of the common train booking apps suggest this.
Rest assured, Ryanair knows their passengers very well. They know that every single one of their passengers knows how to babysit a smartphone so the battery doesn't die on their flight. Let's be honest, sudden unexpected incontinence is more likely than a Ryanair passenger fluffing up their pocket device for doom-scrolling.
For more fun, Frontier's app doesn't even run on my phone. Step 1 to fly with them is to go buy a phone from the last 2-3 years (can probably get away with something a little older if iOS).
Passport/EU-ID to check you already have a ticket should be the standard. Everyone saves time and money this way BUT now they can earn more money at the gate.
That's normal in the Schengen area, you only need ID if you're checking a bag. (Or if there's a spot check by police, but they won't care if your boarding pass matches your ID, just that your ID is valid.)
Re: the "their server is flaky" (I believe you mean at the gate) case, I think any airline might be then struggling with boarding passengers, whether they have paper boarding cards or not.
>For what it is worth, at least on iPhone you can still use the bus/train pass feature in Wallet even when the battery is dead.
AFAIK that only works for NFC passes? For passes that are just qr/bar codes I can't imagine how that'd work if the battery is actually dead. The "use bus passes when battery is dead" feature only works because there's dedicated low power circuitry to power the NFC hardware, which obviously doesn't exist for the display.
It depends on the details. Last time I flew I used the airline's app to get the ticket which were then immediately loaded into wallet and read via NFC at the gate.
But this is Ryanair so it's probably going to do some stupid QR thing that will be super touchy and be a struggle to work on at least half of the devices. Bonus points if the app refuses to start if it can't make a live internet connection back to some cursed cloud service so the people waiting in line who accidentally let their phone go to sleep find they can't get it to show the ticket in the dead zone at the gate.
You need the app to download the pass (AFAIK) but it goes into your Google/Apple wallet after that. I have the app disabled (so it can't run in the background, as much as possible), and I only use it to get the pass.
I wish they'd just let me download a pkpass file, but what can you do.
We talk about ryanair, the scummiest of the bottom scum of airlines, they wanted to charge everybody 2 euros to use toilet (or did it pass? I can't imagine in EU, I would piss on their cabinets since I don't carry coins around).
I always print boarding passes, traveled enough to see tons of people struggling with their phones, with their pdf viewers or airline apps, to block everybody else to know what good manners and empathy to others (or simply less stressful travel) are. I wish I could save that atto fraction of a planet by not printing but it can't be like that with current ways of things.
Luckily ryanair is mostly absent from our airport (Geneva), its Easyjet all the way, way more than even Swiss airlines which chickened out on numerous levels on every swiss airport apart from Zurich. They are low cost with their share of issues but man, compared to ryanair they are absolute top versus rotten vomit, to keep things polite but precise.
> Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a smartphone (or the battery is dead)? They just can't fly?
Yup, based on this announcement, and previous policy calls they've made, that person won't be able to fly. End of. They lose their seat, kthxbye!
Ryanair has made its way in the budget market (arguably inventing the budget market to some extent), by employing money-making practices of dubious need from charging people to use toilets on-board, to flying with so little fuel that they regularly call fuel emergencies on approach.
Their bet - that the market seems to support - is that people will put up with almost anything if it means a cheaper ticket.
They're even expecting to get clearance from authorities to get rid of proper seating and move to "standing seats" so they can get more people onboard, their theory being you'll stand for 3 hours on a plane if it means your ticket is x% cheaper.
I refuse to fly with them on principle - they're a terrible airline owned by a terrible person, run in a terrible way. It's only a matter of time before people realise just how dangerous they are as an operation. I hope it's just a data security issue they run into and people run away from the app scared, and not the increasingly inevitable hull loss that many have been predicting for years.
This is just another reason not to fly with them, for me.
This is a PR stunt that is regularly used (like the idea of standing-room-only tickets) to generate a new round of press for the company and highlight how cost-efficient and ruthless they are, which aligns with their branding and keeps the story alive.
I understand the sentiment but as sibling comment points out, you're very light in the way of stating facts to back up these claims.
There's an interview with the CEO where he explains (claims) the idea of that policy is to reduce demand so they can leave out a couple of toilets and put in / sell more seats -- it's not about the charge for the toilet per se.
May I point out that your counter-argument to "this is a PR stunt" is "no no, the CEO himself floated this idea publicly and got interviewed in the press to talk about it".
>to flying with so little fuel that they regularly call fuel emergencies on approach.
If you're talking about the recent incident, I thought that was because they tried landing several times at different airports? Is there any evidence that they routinely fly with less fuel buffer than other airlines?
Sure, I first heard about this years ago when Channel 4 (a UK broadcaster) ran a program about pilots stating they were concerned about the policy. There had been outrage within the aviation industry after three fuel emergencies in one day at one airport. [0] Ryanair sued [1], and lost: Channel 4 had engaged in fair journalism, it turns out.
Seems they're still at it, hence the recent incident.
All three flights were diverted due to weather, and none of them fell below the legally required amount of fuel. One has to wonder if it’s really reasonable to criticize them in this instance if a single weather event affected them all.
I hate just about everything I know about Ryanair but if they're not below required limits, then I'd say they're not the problem and the point is moot.
I mean it isn’t surprising people put up such abuse when I find that usually these discount airlines are half the ticket price of a major carrier for the same sort of flight. I’ve gotten remarkably good at efficiently packing my allotted small personal item bag.
I have no idea about Europeans, but as an American who's flown a lot recently, the push to smartphone based tickets has been a nightmare. Not because of the tickets, but people aren't seemingly smart or considerate enough to use them correctly.
Paper tickets were so fast. Fold, press, beep, done.
App based tickets? Constant announcements (I'm talking 10 or more during boarding) to turn your brightness up. Despite that, I saw
1 - 25ish percent of people had dark screens, so the attendant had to take the phone, up the brightness, scan it, then hand it back.
2 - A number of screen with cracks or something (didn't get a good look) that required moving the QR code around to get it to scan.
3 - An alarming number of people who didn't bother to even unlock their phone, who then proceed to fumble with thumbing or face scanning, close whatever they were doing, then go into the app and find their ticket.
I'd say the boarding process took at minimum two to three times as long as they did with purely paper tickets.
The paper scanning is hardly the limitation with onboarding.
I feel like you never fly because if you did, you’d know the biggest limitation in boarding speed is the inefficient method they use to board people… not the scanning part. If everyone scans efficiently (something you see often at places like SFO), you just are waiting on the jet bridge… It only takes one person who needs to take off their coat before they sit down or has trouble putting their oversized carry on in storage, etc. to completely shutdown onboarding.
It's ok to point out a flaw in my argument without calling me a liar.
I probably should have said 3x the scanning time, perhaps not total boarding time, I agree with that much.
That said, if the person blocking your seating arrived on the plane 20 minutes later because scanning took an extra 20 minutes, that still means you were delayed 20 minutes + person blocking you.
But I'd expect someone who flies from an airport smarter than everyone else in the US to have already factored that in.
Temporarily controlling screen brightness is something that, at least on android, the app can do itself...
The cracked screen thing - funny.
I wonder how long these twats will hold out.
I hope by the next time I fly Ryanair, someone has figured out how to emulate the look of the app and extract the relevant data so I don't have to run their garbage malware on my phone in order to have the pleasure to fly a "cheap" airline which bills you for everything after using every dark pattern imaginable when you purchase their tickets.
I fly a lot and most people are using their phones now without issue. But when someone does have an issue I remind myself that many people rarely fly, and haven't been through the process hundreds of times. Phone, paper, whatever - people screw it up if they haven't done it before. Boarding first, pre-check/global entry are all beneficial in part because you're dealing with other frequent flyers.
While annoying, the boarding pass scanning process usually isn't the bottleneck.
After I scanned my boarding pass, I then waited in line in the jet bridge, because people in the plane were busy putting their luggage in the overhead compartments, searching for their seats, moving to let people sit in the window seats, and other assorted activities.
> If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone or tablet dies / is lost, you will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
> If passengers don’t have a smartphone or tablet, as long as they have already
checked-in online before arriving at the airport, they will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
Wow, this might just be an improvement on the status quo (app optional, but high boarding pass printing fee if it's not used).
I don't think this policy will hold up in the face of Ryanair ticket resellers though, since it seems to be pretty clearly designed to make their life harder once again, but free replacement printing would offer them a way out.
Traveling seems to be essential, but having the App Store, iPhone, or Android definitely are not.
What happens if your phone is stolen, broken, discharged? Finally, I fly several times a month with different companies, does that mean I should have a circus of apps on my phone?
More broadly, we need regulation where companies cannot make "ownership of the newest smartphone" a requirement to do business with them. I'm lucky to be in the USA where we still haven't smartphone-ized everything yet, but every year I see it creeping in. Every year, a new bank requires a smartphone to create a passkey or whatever. Every year, a restaurant I like moves over to QR code menus. Every year, a doctor decides to move over to smartphone-based payments only. And of course, all of the crappy app developers insist that 1. I use a very recent phone and 2. I run the latest OS, or I'm shut out.
I have no problem with enabling smartphone-based payments and passes for people who like them, but companies should not be allowed to block out (or charge extra to) others who prefer not to tether themselves to a phone.
Here in some European countries, like France, having a smartphone out in a restaurant is a sign of bad etiquette. It's not crucial, but from some people's perspective it might seem out of place. However, some restaurants tried QR code menus due to COVID-19, but most of them have since stopped using them.
I fully agree that having the latest version of a phone/OS should not be treated as a requirement for access to services, especially essential ones.
>. And of course, all of the crappy app developers insist that 1. I use a very recent phone and 2. I run the latest OS, or I'm shut out.
Signal did this when my wife's Macbook could no longer be updated to the latest Apple OS version. Signal just stopped working for her completely on her laptop. She couldn't install the latest version of Signal due to her not being on the latest OS, and Signal won't allow the old version to work once it's outdated. We had to buy her a whole new laptop (not Apple this time) to get her back on Signal (something she relies on).
Yes, I know about the hacky workarounds to get the latest OS working on a Macbook, but fuck that noise.
Third party developers dropping support for OS versions that are, frankly, not even very old, is a scourge in software today.
I can maybe understand sunsetting support if the OS made a huge backwards-incompatible step change, but macOS and iOS updates don't tend to be that kind. The differences (for developers) between Catalina and Mojave are minuscule. Retaining support for Mojave should be close to zero effort on the part of the developer. There should be no difference in maintenance burden between building an application that runs on Mojave and Catalina, and building an application that runs only on Catalina+.
>More broadly, we need regulation where companies cannot make "ownership of the newest smartphone" a requirement to do business with them.
I'm not keen on mobile apps in general, but I don't see a need for regulation here. Companies want customers. It's not in their interest to needlessly harass people with pointless technology requirements that drive people to competitors. No company has ever required "the newest smartphone" for everyday tasks.
I don't support a general right to refuse adoption of any and all new technologies. What I do support is a mandate to use open technologies wherever possible for infrastructure that no one can reasonably avoid. What we can't allow is that people who lose some oligopolist account can no longer live a normal life.
"Companies want customers" is often not enough of a market force to result in behavior that is inclusive of everyone, which is why, for example, we need things like the Americans with Disabilities Act, which mandates that companies' services are accessible to all, and other laws which require full and equal accommodations. We could almost argue that making things "[new] smartphone only" might violate the ADA. I'd like to see such a lawsuit.
I agree that we sometimes need regulation to guarantee access for everyone.
But regulations need to be kept up-to-date and they need to be consistently enforced. That's a lot of work. Having too many of them only helps lawyers and people who can afford them.
Some random company requiring a smartphone for access to some service doesn't strike me as exclusionary enough to justify burdening the system with more regulation.
Indeed, and that's why perhaps some internal marketing analytics show that people with installed apps often buy tickets from the same airline company. Then, we discover how airline companies decide to push their mobile phone application adoption through mandatory tickets.
Such decisions are always about sales, and never about security or customer care.
You're probably right. I just think it's not worth piling the equivalent of technical debt on our legal system just to curb small annoyances. Budget airlines are an incredibly rich source of small annoyances.
> I have no problem with enabling smartphone-based payments and passes for people who like them, but companies should not be allowed to block out (or charge extra to) others who prefer not to tether themselves to a phone.
I agree with this. (The same would apply to restaurant menus.)
(In the case of restaurant menus, they could post a single copy near the entrance or somewhere that it can be seen by everyone in case they do not want to make multiple copies (and do not want to waste paper). E-paper displays might be used in case they sometimes change.)
> What happens if your phone is stolen, broken, discharged?
Another comment says that if any of those apply (or if you do not have a (compatible) smart phone) then you can still receive a boarding pass at the airport, although it seems that you will still need check-in online.
Do the checkin online and add the boarding pass to your ios/android wallet, as simple as that. Just did the last weekend with ryanair. Btw the faq specify that as long as you do the checkin online, if you lose your device or it dies a boarding pass will be printed for you for free
If a government offers official apps for those platforms and banks allow you to use some services for free via app but charge a fee if you show up in person I think airlines can get away with it too
Or use a different phone than apple's or google's, one that protect your privacy against airline companies stealing and resselling your data. The free market will... hem...
Traveling by plane, and specifically by budget airline, isn't essential. I'm not in favor of Ryanair's move here but it's also a free market, they can add restrictions and the market will react to it.
I'm fine with restrictions if they are reasonable/justified. I don't have an app store and I'm not planning to use one, and it's unclear to me why I'm unable to download and print a ticket when they can do the same for €50.
From a personal computer there are zero requirements, I don't need to have a special OS, or application, or anything. On the mobile application side, I must have one of two authorized app stores, an account there, and perhaps a specific OS version. This is something that I find unfair in this business practice.
Reminder what kind of company ryanair is. At one point some 15 (?) years ago ryanair used to charge you 60 euros if you showed up at the boarding gate having only the boarding pass on your phone instead of printed on a piece of paper. There was absolutely no reason for this (their reader reads as well from phone as from paper) other than betting that some fraction of the people would forget to print their boarding pass in paper. And they were right, I saw it in front of me many times and one time almost happened to me. If memory serves me I believe that at the time this was regulated out by the EU.
Here's another one. I read some headline years ago that the ryanair boss was happy to order as many 737 MAX as he could, despite the planes reputation for problems, because if you make the flights cheap enough, people will still fly on it.
I have no doubt he's right, but says something about him and the company.
They have a history of buying a lot of planes whenever there's a chance to get them cheaper. Typically, they sell planes for more than they cost to buy new.
For the 737 max at least, they built a simulator training facility in Dublin so they could train their pilots faster for when the max returned to flight.
I wouldn't take anything their CEO says at face value though. He's often saying provocative things just to get news coverage (cheaper and more effective than traditional advertising), and admits to that himself.
Ok but what you're describing is the classic "be cheaper than competition, gain market share, then raise prices" and is basically how business works. Almost every company does this if they are run well enough to manage to pull it off.
Setting up rules to trick customers to make mistakes and then demand 60 euros for printing a sheet of paper is morally dishonest and I would say most don't do this.
Ryanair basically invented most of the dark patterns that are now prevalent in all travel websites. Back then, the experience was so awful that it was comical (and even inspired a song[0]). Therefore I'm not surprised that they are the first to mandate you install their app on your phone. All other companies that have dreamed of this will be quick to follow suit.
Notice the euphemism of calling this "going digital". Everybody is already digital, using a pdf reader on their phone at the terminal, despite some companies discouraging this practice. That's not digital enough, is it?
"Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (Thurs, 6 Nov) reminded passengers that from Wed (12 Nov) it will move to 100% digital boarding passes. This means that from Wed (12 Nov) passengers will no longer be able to download and print a physical paper boarding pass but will instead need to use the digital boarding pass generated in their “myRyanair” app during check-in to board their Ryanair flight."
Why does it matter whether the boarding pass barcode is scanned from a printed paper vs a phone screen?
Didn't Uber get caught tracking their users (I want to say victims but there are actual victims of Uber sexual harassment/assault) even though they didn't have the app open?
Tracking where your passengers go on vacation would be useful data for them. Sheesh you could even track flights: "User was online at London Heathrow until 11:45, and was then offline, and came back online again in Madrid at 14:30, the corresponding flight at those times was EasyJet 78".
It'll be interesting to see where this is enforced. Most people won't actually see a member of Ryanair staff until the gate (at which point very often you're asked to scan your own barcode with a staff member present).
I reckon you'll be able to print out a screenshot of the app and use it to check your bags in and get through security. They won't hold a flight up with checked bags at the gate - will cost them too much money.
It's not rare that some staff are checking that passengers have all needed documents as they head to departures. Looks like they could check app usage there. They could also easily check the app when bags are checked in (that's Ryanair staff doing this).
In smaller airports (the ones Ryanair used to operate from) it's also sometimes their own barcode scanners before the gates that are dedicated to them.
I believe they will be able to enforce this in many places.
Ryanair use scan-and-drop self-checkin of bags in many airports.
It would also be curious to see who pays for removal of persons once they are airside - eg in the case the flyer with nothing to check in who goes past airport security, but before RyanAir staff meet them at the gate.
Anti theft perhaps? Last March a guy was able to sneak onto a Delta flight by taking a picture of someone else's QR code. Some ticketing apps have temporal QR codes that are resistant to this exploit.
For a period after 9/11, ID was required to be shown at the gate on domestic flights. I don't recall when that stopped, but it's been a while (and apparently long enough ago that apparently some have never had to do it).
I seem to recall IDs occasionally being checked at the gate prior to 9/11 as well. Memory is fuzzy, but they weren't checking boarding passes or ids at security. But back then I would always get my boarding pass at the check-in counter (sometimes exchanging an actual ticket for the boarding pass).
I spent some time looking for old information, best I could come up with was this article [1] from 1996 about requiring photo ID at check-in, which doesn't mention checking at the gate, but does mention why the airlines might be happy to do it (protect revenue by making sure passengers don't fly on other people's tickets... unless they share their name with the other person). This article [2] , also from 1996, is a little bit less precise about if people are denied at check-in or by gate agents.
I think it's all quite hazy, because if you had no checked bags and it was a small airport, but you might just go to the gate and try to get your boarding pass there. That and 24 years have passed. :D
It has to be compatible with the physical scanners at the airport, e.g. before security. So Ryanair probably is not very flexible in how they design the code.
A grim view of things to come. More companies will do this, and eventually your defacto tracking device (ie, your smart phone) will become your government-mandated tracking device. I'd like to stop traveling by air altogether. Sadly, I need to travel for work this December.
Boarding an airplane, which requires that someone check your ID, is one of the most reliable tracking indicators available to show that a person was in a specific place at a specific time.
Nabbing people at airports is a common strategy for this reason.
Putting the boarding pass on a phone doesn’t make it easier for the government to know that you’re flying.
I just mean in general. If airplane companies normalize using an app then other companies may as well. Do you need a smartphone to pump gas? Or to use government services? How about to buy groceries? That sort of slippery slope is what I would be afraid of.
> If airplane companies normalize using an app then other companies may as well.
I fly a lot and can't remember the last time I had a paper boarding pass. When I board the vast majority of people also use their phones, so normalization has already happened with air travel.
You think this mandated budget airline app is only going to track a gate check-in and nothing else? My guess is that it will collect an absurd amount of extra data and waste endless amounts of time with up-sells and other dark patterns.
Agreed here. I'll check in online, but I'll only install their app as a last resort. I'm hopeful that boarding passes are still sent as PDF.
Then again, I rarely fly Ryanair anyway.
I'm averse to installing any apps. I don't want to use a smartphone, and I don't want companies or governments to mandate their usage. As a consumer you have no real way of knowing which apps are tracking you and selling your data and which are not. Every app is suspect, even if some are legitimately clean. Every single company that says "just use the app" is another roll of the dice: will they get breached and reveal my data? Are they tracking me and selling to advertisers / insurance companies / police? Consumers really have no way of knowing for sure.
Selling my location, list of the installed apps, cookies, whatever they can extract.
That's for starters.
But most importantly why the hell should I be forced to use phone app if having a printed pass was good enough?
I need to reverse your surprising question into: should I be expected to install, update, maintain and use apps of ALL the service providers I use?
Separate app for train provider A, another for train provider B, another for bus provider C.
No paper tickets.
An app to purchase groceries, another app to pay for the parking, another app to buy a coffee, another app to buy a newspaper in the kiosk. And app to check in the hotel, an app to order food in the restaurant, an app to call the tax return website (not the phone, an app).
In addition to that (which is already bad), you will need a compatible smart phone (I do not have and do not intend to have; other people mentioned the same thing), and if you do have then it might use more battery power and more disk space, and sometimes the battery power will run out (or it can fail due to many other reasons), so it is even worse than what you mention.
In addition to the great reasons others posted, I'll point out another one: Most airline apps won't even install or run on my device anymore. So, even if I wanted to use the airline's app (I don't), their developers have chosen to not support my device, and therefore I cannot even install or run it.
If a company is going to make something a requirement like this, they need to also invest in the effort to support everyone's device, and not block people with old, icky phones.
It's an unnecessary invasion of privacy for one, and not everyone has or wants a smartphone or to install third party apps, or carry it with them onto the plane. It could also be dead, broken or otherwise incompatible, or the passenger may have a disability or religious reason that prevents them from using it.
Think about the future ramifications if more companies were to implement this invasive garbage. Do you want to have to install mcdonalds app to order their food? Great clips app to get a hair cut?
A "boarding pass" was always a redundant document anyway. As are "tickets" whenever ID is required for the service in question. The ID has a number on it, in the system that's the ticket. In police states like China, tickets are a thing of the past.
That flying - an entirely unsustainable mode of transport - is now widely viewed as a commoditized consumer good is already a form of ethical collapse IMO. Now this. We need regulation. But for that, people need choose it, to vote for it.
Huh. I feel like one of Ryanair's major profit centres in the past has been that €50 fee they charge to print your boarding pass at the counter when the app doesn't work...
Right, it doesn't get my main email at the moment, true, turns out an app needs `android.permission.GET_ACCOUNTS` to do that. I do, however, expect them to do that later -- looking at their declared permissions, it's hard to assume a good will:
- `BLUETOOTH_SCAN`, `ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION`, `ACCESS_ADSERVICES_AD_ID` -- all together. Yes, I see they use `android.ext.adservices`
`READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE`? `WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE`?
What for? Do they even offer saving a PDF into a Downloads folder?
I think they can do it without asking for the separate permission.
> and they can only identify apps from a fixed list
And then check their admitted privacy practices/policy from their Google Play listing (com.ryanair.cheapflights)
Notice, the first section is `DATA SHARED`, not just collected. It's shared with the undisclosed third parties (we know from the privacy policy[1], though, that at the very least it includes all the social networks
>> Photos, User ids (plural, it's not just email used to login), Installed apps once again, Files and docs (?!)
Generally;
I have a very little trust for a vendor that is known for the deceptive practices and which lies from the outset about the reasons to force all passengers into using their app.
If they lie in such a fundamental question, it should be assumed they're using deceptions and trickery.
Phone's dead/dropped under a bus tire/stolen at security/got bit-flipped by a cosmic ray, now what?
Nearly 80% of 207M passengers already adopted it means 41M passengers have not.
I apologize in advance for being overly dramatic. I just flew with a digital boarding pass and my phone nearly died while waiting at the outlet-less gate. I'm sure I could have gotten assistance, but it was stressful.
If you lose your phone or if it's out of battery, you'll get a free boarding pass at the airport as long as you checked in online before getting to the airport.
If you didn't check in before, you'll have to pay a 50€ fee. (Same as before)
Empty battery is not unlikely in airports that make it extra-hard to recharge a phone (Looking at you, BER). Long ago it was possible to unplug a vending machine as a last resort, but these days all electrical sockets are concealed, as a measure to prevent overnight stays in airports I believe.
Than you haven't been watching the EU enough. They are currently working on MULTIPLE different omnibus laws that will make owning an Google or Apple Approved Phone, running Google or Apple Approved Firmware and using the Google or Apple App store de-facto mandatory for living in the EU.
You vill download ze app and you vill accept the TOS.
Ironic that RyanAir’s press release website has a print button as if anyone prints websites. There are a lot of advantages to paper and printers. As a general policy policy point I don’t love this direction. But also it’s RyanAir. This is by far the smallest customer rights violation that they have and will continue to commit. And at this point everyone should know that a 25 quid flight from Manchester to Madrid on RyanAir has a catch. Just be glad your luggage wasn’t jettisoned over the channel to save weight.
I specifically don't use smartphone boarding passes when travelling (on full service airlines, mostly LH group), just so they get the statistic of me using paper. (The barcode has an 'issue type' field, it's a single character and generally the only difference between digital QR and paper PDF417 contents.)
(I collect paper boarding passes and want them to stay ;)
I think requiring app is an overreach. I hate installing apps. If you want to save money and not do paper, I would just do this:
- Provide a discount/credit for using electronic digital boarding pass (PDF file, no apps). If someone is not able to use the PDF etc (either their own printout or on their phone) and require a paper pass at the airport for any reason, their discount/credit goes away. Simple.
I wonder how these gate agents will react if I show their app throwing a hissy fit and refusing to work when it is blocked from any data mining. No permissions, no google play services, no safetynet, maybe no network. It is non cooperation with their bs, but it looks like a technical issue. And, if it can work without such things, then I hate it much less.
I just installed it on a fresh profile in GrapheneOS.
Blocked from any access except network, and it didn't even try to check Play Integrity API. Works okay. Didn't have a chance to check in/display boarding pass, but I could access all the details of my flight no problem.
Thank you for checking that. Last time I used it, I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't use android's screenshot prevention to stop you making a copy of the boarding pass. I took a screenshot as a backup in case I had issues with the app.
I'd probably pay the fee, take my flight, then charge it back with a reason like "Fee for not using app, app did not work. Fee advertised as optional was not, in fact, optional for me". Completely true statement.
I don't know about Ryanair, but I've had to reverse credit card transactions due to scams a few times and I've never been banned from other businesses.
^ This, and nothing else. There is a dark, evil underbelly to the data broker ecosystem that is largely powered by random apps people install on their phones.
The whole point of Ryanair has always been low cost flights by shoving passengers in and stick to the rules to make everything faster and having less staff. People want the £30 flight but don't want to stick to the conditions, ultimately. But that is the trade off you make.
Will the app requirement be disclosed at purchase everywhere? IE: If I am buying on a third-party online travel agent, will the checkout process state that in order to board the flight at the cost quoted, that I will need to have a smartphone with the app installed?
Requiring a particular app for something that could be achieved by scanning a code (displayed on a screen) is bullshit.
And let me guess - then they'll use Play Integrity API so that you cannot fly if you're not using Google certified device with preinstalled privileged spyware (or lease an Apple device you don't own)?
Was hoping you could opt out by moving to Morroco, where local regulations bar digital boarding passes. But Ryanair still makes you get digital ones there, and have you redeem it for a physical one at the airport.
Can I download the app, add the boarding pass to Apple Wallet and remove/disable the app? Or just take a screenshot of the boarding pass and then uninstall it?
I suspect that when you install the app, it will require all the juicy permissions like contacts, and hoover up lots of data before you even begin to use it. So the damage will have been done, even though you uninstall it soon.
Ryanair is best thought of, not as an airline, but as a kind of carnival game that delivers a small monetary prize if you win, and a nasty electric shock if you do it wrong. By playing Ryanair, you have the opportunity to acquire a slightly cheaper flight, and if you can keep a steady hand and navigate the arbitrary rules (each a cunning trap), you can indeed save some money. Good luck.
Reminder to airlines ahead of move to more BS for your customers: You provide one of the most enshittified experiences ever conceived. I have been, and will continue avoiding flying at all costs until the customer is considered again.
Last time I flew Ryanair in July, I presented my phone to the agent to check my boarding pass. She took my phone to scan it. I turned my head to talk to my companion.
When I looked back, the agent was in my settings, quietly enabling all the permissions for the app (which I had deliberately disabled).
When I (shocked) told her off, she rolled her eyes and said I would need to change them anyway to scan the bag tags.
Given that Ryanair used to charge to print a boarding pass at the airport, it seems pretty likely their response will just be to do so again. This is a company which literally hates its customers.
Like it or not, we live in a market economy with market competition. There are new airlines every year. In 2022 there was a net increase of 13 airlines in europe alone.
If people want paper boarding passes, some competitor will give it to them. Always been like that in market economies, and socialists will keep fearmongering about "what one company does" like its the end of the world.
> but will instead need to use the digital boarding pass generated in their “myRyanair” app during check-in to board their Ryanair flight.
And of course it's only possible using a specific proprietary app. You'd think a penny-pinching company would want to use open standard to save money instead of develop a custom app, right? I'm 100% sure this is done intentionally to scoop up as much personal data from their customers.
Yeah, it's right up there with the rest of the shady business practices.
Delta, for example, charges more physical cash for a cash+miles ticket than for a pure cash ticket (every time I've been inclined to try to use miles over the last few years anyway). I get that they maybe don't meet the legal barrier for fraud, but even a child can see that it's unethical.
Toss in the seat-selection UI (strongly suggesting you have to select a seat if you don't know the game and figure out how to exit that menu, but every possible seat has an upcharge above the ticket price), "trip insurance" which is insanely overpriced and mostly only covers the things the airline is already required to reimburse you for, and everything else they do, and it's obvious that when a new anti-feature comes out (mandatory app usage being the latest and greatest) it just exists to scam a few more dollars out of you and lie a bit more about the true ticket price.
I am going to summarize with - they want you to use their app for monetization and ux purposes.
Actually, it isn’t even possible in all cases.
I literally have just got home from a Ryanair flight where they provided me with no option but a paper boarding pass for my daughter.
It’s essentially a result of a crazy hack they’ve implemented to support families who have Ryanair prime.
You can only name adults as Ryanair prime members, and when you book through a Ryanair prime account, you can only book for the named members. There’s a maximum of two per account, as it’s intended for couples. The kids, aged 2-16, you have to make a “linked booking”. You don’t get boarding passes through the app or email - the only option is to go to a customer service desk and have them print you a paper boarding pass.
Also… digital boarding passes are an open standard - IATA BCBP. You can go make your own.
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/1dccc9ed041b4f3bbdcf8ee86...
Page | 32
2.6.3. Fraud Prevention
Ill-intentioned persons may falsify their BCBP by changing the flight number or class of service. They may also simply print two copies of the BCBP and pass one to a friend, or even create a counterfeit BCBP. Technical solutions exist, e.g. algorithms, called certificates, which can for example secure the bar code if necessary.
They move 200 million passengers a year. The app is full of upsell. Please explain how your open standard accomplishes their goals
Their goal is not my goal. My goal is to fly to a destination. A paper ticket has always been enough for that. And if they want to upsell a web page can be full of upselling too. But I don't want upsells, only a flight and air companies are commodities. Imagine if I had to install an app for every chain of gas pumps around my country and the nearby ones.
I think with these kinds of ideological issues, all one can do is vote with their wallet. Nobody is forcing you to fly Ryanair, there are other choices, and if you don't like their practices, don't fly with them. If enough people do it, then they might change their ways, but if their 80% number is accurate, you're probably just stuck not flying with them anymore and nobody else is going to care but you, unfortunately.
Not trying to be rude at all... you said their goal is not yours, so that's why you choose not to do business with them. Every business can't please everyone at the same time.
> I think with these kinds of ideological issues, all one can do is vote with their wallet
Needs to be viewed in the light of the distinctly un-open market in which airlines operate. There are only so many airports, and only so many slots. I might wish to start another airline which customers may use an open solution but the reality is that incumbents have a massive moat around them. No market, that I know of, is perfect but air travel is an unusually distorted one.
This was going to be my comment. "vote with your wallet" only works in open competitive markets. But (with a few exceptions), this is not the world we live in. Regulation is the only option left. You have to vote with your vote to get laws in place that force industry to behave better.
Though much less distorted in the EU than in the US. It's common to have the choice between 2-3 different airlines to get from one place to another, and if that's not good enough the next major airport is frequently just a 2-3 hour train journey away
> But I don't want upsells
Ryan is cheap because they sell you lottery tickets on the plane.
If you don’t want upsells there are airlines that cater to that as well.
In many European segments we're finding them comparably priced. If we factor getting to the Ryanair airports, luggage, etc., sometimes we're better off flying, say, Brussels Airlines. And I'd happily buy food in Ryanair flights if their catalogue had any proper food.
I refuse to ever fly Southwest because of their history of open seating. I refuse to ever fly Spirit or other American discount airlines because I want to keep the nickle and diming to a minimum. I fly less than I could if I sought out rock bottom airfares, and that’s ok.
I understand not wanting to deal with open seating but continuing to boycott an airline after they fixed your pet-peeve makes no sense to me.
My reasoning: fuck ‘em. That and loyalty points.
And they’re OK with that as well, clearly :)
[dead]
The GP was commenting on the motivations of Ryanair, and the parent was responding to that.
Imagine you drive an EV and that's exactly what you have to do.
True for everybody but Tesla. If you have a Tesla you install the app once to enter your credit card and then you can delete the app if you wish. All you need to recharge is the ability to drive the car (which doesn't require the app).
Not true for Electrify America and many other chargers.
Plug and charge is supported on many vehicles, and you can skip the app entirely and just pay by card.
Why do they force you to install the app just to enter a credit card? Sounds like something a website could do just fine.
But, it's not. All EV's in Europe I've driven had a simple plastic charging card, no apps required.
> Imagine if I had to install an app for every chain of gas pumps around my country and the nearby ones.
Oh Great. Some oil company CEO's nephew in tech just read this and sent it to his uncle. Who will adopt it forthwith.
That’s pretty much what the EV charging landscape is, right?
I don't think it helps if you're arguing their position. We don't want to allow them to upsell. They're crossing the line into social ostracization grounds.
At this point, their destruction of social trust is so severe that simply boycotting is not enough, just like you don't just boycott a company that's doing environmental destruction. They simply need to be stopped, regardless of their goals.
You can upsell just fine through a website.
I used this app over the weekend, it's actually quite handy. Can't help but notice those priority boarding and seat selection buttons while checking for the gate number. You can also order food from your phone in the cabin using some magical Bluetooth protocol I didn't understand
Just to be clear I think their policy is horrifically abusive, but I can totally see why they're doing it
Which I assume also means you need to agree to a shitty, user-hostile ToS?
I wonder if its like frontier where they hide the standardized mobile boarding pass behind a dark pattern?
So far, you can just download the boarding pass to apple/google wallet after checking in. Only dark patterns are in their booking process.
So instead of one proprietary app now you need two?
What's darker than dark?
There are plenty of open-source apps that can store & show .pkpass files, though I don't know if they're compatible with Frontier's passes
You can also take a screenshot of your ticket. The passes are just for convenience.
Ryanair app blocks screenshots
I just tried and it does not (Android)
Do you perhaps have biometric unlocking disabled?
I do use biometric auth.
Vantadark patterns.
Ryanair is the dark pattern. Like damn.
Open source should work hard on a "universal" VM to load these types of apps into.
There’s an easy solution. Don’t fly Ryanair! I’m perfectly happy to take this sacrifice in exchange for cheaper tickets
Its so they can collect a fee of 50 euros or pounds off you when your phone battery is flat or the app otherwise doesn't work.
It is said on their website that if you lose your phone or it dies, you can get a free boarding pass at the airport.
Source: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
Last year I purchased a ticket to a Broadway show in NYC. I refused to use their digital ticketing nonsense, and when I showed up at the box office just before showtime and said my phone wasn't working (for my own definition of "working") they just handed me paper tickets. So I have to believe every one of these companies must have a way of issuing tickets when people's phones "don't work."
So always carry a dead phone with you when flying Ryanair.
This should be at the top of this thread... it practically makes the whole thing a nothingburger.
It moves the app one notch back from mandatory, but that's still enough to be a real problem. That method is going to have very low capacity and if you lie about your phone being dead or elsewhere that might screw you over.
> if you lie about your phone being dead or elsewhere that might screw you over.
I would bet money this will never happen, but ok.
> And of course it's only possible using a specific proprietary app.
Right. I like email. I guess fuck me.
Yes. Scooping up user data is just another revenue stream. That is the point.
Particularly for airlines. For years actually flying passengers hasn't been profitable, it's all about side income that makes a profit [1].
[1] https://www.investopedia.com/the-four-biggest-us-airlines-al...
There's a YouTube video that talks about how valuable the major US airlines reward program is. The market cap of each airline is less than the value of each airline's reward program at the time the video was made.
I recall Apple was valued in a similar manner back in the late 1990s. Their market cap was barely more than cash on hand. Talk about missed investing opportunities...
Not that I'm saying airlines are the next AAPL.
edit - here's the video - "How Airlines Quietly Became Banks" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggUduBmvQ_4
i cant believe i'm about to defend Ryanair but just fwiw it seems quite normal to do a custom app specifically for tickets, for anticheat purposes + the nicety of putting your ticket in Apple Wallet is nice enough that i willingly do it for the airlines i fly.
ok that wasnt really defending Ryanair but just being argumentative for the sake of fairness. obviously Ryanair doesn't have Ticketmaster level tech.
It absolutely doesn't take an app to issue a boarding pass which will appear in your Apple Wallet. It's literally a zip (with extension .pkpass) containing a master JSON, a few assets like logos and a digital signature. There are tutorials for making your own.
Many airlines let you download one once you check in on their website, or email you one, or embed a download link in an SMS, just to name 3 alternatives.
Recent experience with United: the SMS option was deeply broken (as in couldn't actually get one boarding pass from the link in SMS). Their kiosks were crap too (as in attendant tries to tell me I'm doing it wrong, then they can't do it, and they finally have to check me in on their own terminal).
The overall UX/UI of airlines is terribly broken.
2025 Web of Shit papering over a 1950s era backend.
Why does a boarding pass need a rootkit? ("anticheat" is usually code for root kits, and at least it has some positive trade off for users in the video game case)
They can just check the scanned pass against their own database to verify authenticity. They could also cryptographically sign it.
It may be "quite normal" to you, but that doesn't mean it's good. Stockholm syndrome comes to mind here.
Until technology gives us better controls, we must assume that every app, particularly those from large profit-driven corporations, is hostile.
It may be hostile to you, bit that doesn't mean it is hostile. Paranoia syndrom comes to mind here.
It's true that not all apps are hostile, but my pessimism and paranoia aren't unfounded. If you think the current state of software, security, privacy, etc, is fine and dandy and doesn't warrant skepticism, then our shared reality is probably too fractured to have a meaningful debate.
I work in cybersecurity, heading the group in a company you know. I also develop open source software. So I am painfully aware of the pandemic of cybersecurity issues we face professionally and at home.
Progress has its good and bad aspects, and we must fight as much as possible in some battles, and choose them wisely. This is why the EU efforts around privacy are great, and without their drawbacks. But ultimately they are great.
Being infuriated as I see in this thread about the decision of a company to use mobiles as boarding passes is not something I adhere to. One can always fly with another airline that does not have these restrictions, and complain on another thread how expensive this is.
Saying that all of current technology is evil means going off the grid and living a quiet life in a remote forest. This is of course a solution.
Saying that some technology is evil (and it definitely is) means fighting for these specific things to be regulated. Ryan Air's digital boarding passes is not one of them.
I'm not trying to crusade against digital boarding passes, my issue is with normalizing mandatory apps for all the things.
If we had high quality, trusted software, leveraging open standards, that would be one thing, but instead we have janky proprietary snowflake apps that are borderline malware. Like you said, it's a pandemic of cybersecurity issues, so it's hard for me to accept the 'just install the app' mentality.
I agree we should pick our battles, but I don't believe regulation is the only solution worth fighting for. My comment was to nudge cultural change, by pushing back against what I see as a bad practice.
You can usually get the ticket printed at the desk, print it at home, have a PDF on any device like a Kindle, take a screenshot of the QR code, add to your wallet on your phone even without proprietary apps, etc…
I download the airline’s apps, but I hate relying exclusively on these potentially unreliable apps, or unreliable phones so I always get the ticket in other formats, too: always have an analog version, and some form of digital version on at least two devices.
I don’t travel often, but when I do, missing a flight would be expensive or annoying, so it’s a reasonable trade off for me, ymmv. With that said, I also don’t fly Ryanair, so they can do whatever they want.
btw ryanair charges you like $75 for printing at the desk haha
No. I'm app fatigued and over it. Let's put some power back into he hands of consumers for once.
Why do you need to download and run an app to get your ticket into your phone's Wallet?
Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a smartphone (or the battery is dead)? They just can't fly?
And, if their server flaky, does that mean all boarding will stop? If the agents can check people in manually, it seems like the small fraction of people using a paper boarding pass can't be adding much extra cost. If they are saving cost by removing that flow, presumably they are giving up redundancy. Given the quality of airline software, I predict they will see a mass outage within a year.
The whole business model of discount airlines is to cater to the fat part of the bell curve and not the long tails. If you require special accommodation at any point in the process don't fly via a super budget value airline. Even if they do support your use case, they're not in the business of making it easy and they'll hit you with a "fuck you" fee to make it worth their while.
> If you require special accommodation at any point in the process don't fly via a super budget value airline
That sounds pretty illegal if they aren't making accommodations for disabilities.
They'll make accommodations, but those will be very budget accommodations and not comfy, just like everything else about them.
Hence why you're better off going with something else. In fact, you're almost always better off going with something else. I'm not a giant, but at 6'4" (1.93 meters) I've found that I absolutely detest most shared transit. Either my legs are too long or shoulders too broad, and even non-budget airlines can be unpleasant to fly in.
I had the misfortune of acquiring a temporary disability while I was overseas and it kind of opened my eyes to how shitty the west treats the disabled. While I was in eastern airports the staff were tripping over themselves to accommodate me. I was assigned at least one person whose entire job was to stay with me and take me where I needed to go. They handled my bags, security, even got me food and drinks when I got hungry. It was beyond respectful. But as soon as I got to the western leg of the journey home I became a burden. I basically just got a wheelchair and my partner had to push me around while juggling our luggage.
It's crazy to see real life proof that it doesn't have to be this way.
Every American I know who has spent time overseas comes back with at least one thing where they can't believe how massively we've screwed it up while also somehow ignoring that it's been being handled far more sensibly by others.
The one advantage Ryanair has over non-budget airlines is that none of their seats recline.
Yeah, disability accommodation laws are pretty weak, even in the countries with the strongest protections. "reasonable" accommodations often equate to situations that still don't actually provide practical accommodations for people.
I'm not sure I understand. It sounds like you're saying you don't like the leg room being so cramped that beyond a certain height you're physically required to angle your knees into a neighboring seat's space. That's surely part of the charm though?
It's bad enough when I have to fight for elbow room with the people next to me. It's a whole 'nother experience to fight for the elbow room of the people in front of me to have a place to put my knees.
It’s true, in my experience at 6’7” it is much nicer to fly private. Shared transport offers a much inferior experience except on long haul flights where you have actual first class, but even then you need to be careful while booking to not accidentally end up on some silly plane.
Not having a smart phone is not a disability
Discount airlines charge you if you so much as talk to a gate agent. I think their lawyers have found ironclad routings around something like that.
The right wing rise world wide will gut disability accommodations.
I once flew from London on Ryanair when the airport's passenger Wi-Fi was completely down, and 4G was completely overloaded as a result as well.
Things were indeed pretty chaotic. I can't remember if they did print paper boarding passes in the end.
> it seems like the small fraction of people using a paper boarding pass can't be adding much extra cost
You're looking at this from the wrong angle: This is Ryanair. Actual cost does not matter, only the opportunity to extract more revenue. Presumably app users are that much more valuable to Ryanair (as they can be upsold various things there, and potentially because it also acts as a filter for a generally less profitable customer segment).
It's also a marketing channel for future flights. The app almost certainly asks for notification permissions, and most people will say yes -- they're useful for knowing if your flight is delayed or there's a gate change.
Now they have a channel where they can let you know about deals, etc. I'm sure they've modeled exactly how much this is worth, and I'd be willing to bet it's a lot.
Re notifications: I have seen important apps not working unless you allow notifications.
This might be the case here as well.
You wanna fly? Allow notifications!
Isn't that against App Store guidelines? (Not that Apple could afford to kick out Ryanair, but I think they have other options, such as blocking updates until it's been remedied etc.)
The upsell opportunity isn't worth anywhere near $50 though. I suspect it acts as a price discrimination filter. You make people jump through hoops (ie. installing an app) to save some money, with the expectation that people who are willing to jump through hoops are more price sensitive, and would also be willing to switch to another airline.
They already charge that and more if you have to check-in at the airport for any reason. And you cannot check-in online without making an account with them. Ryanair is grift squared.
That said I never had problems boarding with a PDF displayed on the phone screen. Unfortunate that they're going away.
Stupid question here, because I haven't flown with Ryanair in like almost 10 years, but I've recently flown with WizzAir and after checking-in online (the night before) it generated a .pdf boarding pass which I saved on my phone. I was then able to get onto the plane by presenting the QR code from said .pdf, i.e. while I was at the gate, no need for internet access. Does Ryanair do things differently?
These byzantine arguments and justifications and profit motivation and incentive tea readings are so ridiculous at a certain point, I'm surprised so many people wont even consider socializing airlines.
What a cold comfort to a grandma struggling to use an upsell-focused dark patterns app when the wifi is poor at some airport to get home to see her grandkids stuck at some airport to say, "Well, this maximized shareholder revenue."
I feel like I'm in the last stages of 'anything goes' capitalism. The ridiculousness here has hit such levels, especially in the USA, that there must be pushback sooner than later. I dunno how the Irish feel about this considering this is their airline (HQ at least), or their experiences, but on this side of the pond, this has all has reached new levels of absurdity that would make even Kafka blush.
I just randomly checked Dublin to Rome route, for early December. The first 3 cheapest options are Ryanair, the 4th option (Air Lingus) is almost triple the price of the cheapest one, $262 vs $90
That’s your answer. People vote with their wallet.
Contrary to what many replies are telling you, the link clearly states that if you don't own a smartphone, you can check in online and then obtain a boarding pass for free at the airport.
(Not sure how easy that will be or if they actually verify that you don't own a smartphone, etc.)
>Contrary to what many replies are telling you, the link clearly states that if you don't own a smartphone, you can check in online and then obtain a boarding pass for free at the airport.
The press release says absolutely nothing of the sort.
Technically, the vast majority of users don't own their device. They are leasing it through their carrier. Then because it is HN, once the device is paid off, the user still doesn't own it as they cannot use it as they see fit and still must use it as the manufacturer sees fit. So this "own" word is potential for interpretation
I’m sorry, I am not seeing that at all at the link. I am surely missing something, but can you cut/paste what you are seeing on this point?
The linked article doesn't have that info. But it is in their FAQ
https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
> as long as they have already checked-in online before arriving at the airport, they will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
Frontier already expects digital boarding passes. I do not own a phone, so they charged me a $25 fee to print one at customer service. Except they also do not accept cash, so I had to go buy a gift card with cash from a vending machine for another $5 fee.
For $30 I could buy an entire discount printer and print one myself.
Thank you for FAXing this comment in :)
Or just using a laptop or a desktop pc…
You can print Frontier boarding passes. They just make the link very hard to find.
Keep in mind that Ryanair already charges €50 to print you a replacement boarding pass at the counter if you can't make the app work...
10 years ago I had to pay ryanair that amount for I didn't print the boarding pass. How the times have changed.
but you can print for free before heading to the airport
If you own a printer.
I've once been in that situation with Ryanair: I booked through some reseller, not knowing that they'd make all bookings using some omnibus Ryanair account they would not share the password for (so mobile app use was out), and only emailed me the boarding pass PDF. But I didn't have a printer...
The airport business center did have one, with a moderate 50 cent per page fee – except if that page contains a boarding pass, in which case it was 8 Euro.
I would've photoshopped the barcode onto a Covid certificate and then ask to print it...
Isn't barcode on the PDF good enough anyway, to be scanned by a machine (either biological or electronic)? Obviously it's Scamair, so they could've imposed dumb rules like "we need the physical paper"
Yup, that's it. They explicitly weren't allowing scanning off of a screen, as far as I remember. (The code on the screen might be fraudulent, after all – can't do that on paper!)
Interesting price discrimination here.
> passengers will no longer be able to download and print a physical paper boarding pass
Not now.
> Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a smartphone (or the battery is dead)?
Or you drop your phone. Or it gets stolen. Or for whatever reason the software fails. Electronic devices are so flimsy, even if you want to use an app it's worth having paper as a backup option. It's the same reason why I always carry cash and a card on me (and I pay in cash as much as possible anyway).
> If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone or tablet dies, you will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
> If passengers don’t have a smartphone or tablet, as long as they have already checked-in online before arriving at the airport, they will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
My wife used to laugh at me that I almost always print out a boarding pass. Until the day her phone died at the gate.
Not to mention that the hard copy always scans flawlessly at the gate. Phone scans, not so much.
Not only does the phone scan not work well, but people often aren't prepared and so the boarding line stalls while people unlock their phone and retrieve the e-ticket.
One thing their phone app does is crank the brightness to maximum when you view the boarding pass.
> Not to mention that the hard copy always scans flawlessly at the gate. Phone scans, not so much.
Not true. Recently I printed a hardcopy of my boarding pass at the airline's kiosk, then found it wouldn't scan at security. Luckily I was able to pull up the barcode on my phone.
Ouch. Perhaps it's a dice roll either way. I guess I just assumed everyone else also had issues with phone tickets, and not with paper. You and your sibling comment have opposite experiences however, so it seems I must retract my statement.
Phone scan works fine. People not knowing how to travel/board a plane is a different issue.
This is simply the mindset of discount airlines. If your battery is dead when you arrive at check-in that's too bad for you. It's in the terms and conditions.
If the server is flaky then boarding will be delayed for everyone and it'll be a whole crapshow but if their overall cost is lower than it would have been with printed boarding passes, fine.
Usually they'll happily help you out with a "late boarding pass printing fee" on the order of a hundred €/$, though.
If this really is a total refusal to do even that, I'd be slightly surprised, but I'm sure their business developers have done the analysis and it makes some sense to them.
I’m surprised they can get away with it in the EU. T&C or not, you paid for a fare and they know you did
It is said on their website that if you lose your phone or it dies, you can get a free boarding pass at the airport.
Source: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
You would also be surprised at how 'tech savvy' non-tech people are in the UK. It is quite common for non-tech people to screenshot train ticket QR codes just in case they have no signal at the station yet none of the common train booking apps suggest this.
Rest assured, Ryanair knows their passengers very well. They know that every single one of their passengers knows how to babysit a smartphone so the battery doesn't die on their flight. Let's be honest, sudden unexpected incontinence is more likely than a Ryanair passenger fluffing up their pocket device for doom-scrolling.
For more fun, Frontier's app doesn't even run on my phone. Step 1 to fly with them is to go buy a phone from the last 2-3 years (can probably get away with something a little older if iOS).
Passport/EU-ID to check you already have a ticket should be the standard. Everyone saves time and money this way BUT now they can earn more money at the gate.
In Norway on Norwegian carriers all you need for internal travel is the credit card you booked the ticket with.
No ID? So anyone with the card can use the ticket?
That's normal in the Schengen area, you only need ID if you're checking a bag. (Or if there's a spot check by police, but they won't care if your boarding pass matches your ID, just that your ID is valid.)
If they're for sale online, anyone with the card can buy another ticket.
Most of the answers are here:
https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
Re: the "their server is flaky" (I believe you mean at the gate) case, I think any airline might be then struggling with boarding passengers, whether they have paper boarding cards or not.
For what it is worth, at least on iPhone you can still use the bus/train pass feature in Wallet even when the battery is dead.
But it has always been the Ryanair brand to ask the consumer "how much bullshit are you willing to put up with to save a buck?"
>For what it is worth, at least on iPhone you can still use the bus/train pass feature in Wallet even when the battery is dead.
AFAIK that only works for NFC passes? For passes that are just qr/bar codes I can't imagine how that'd work if the battery is actually dead. The "use bus passes when battery is dead" feature only works because there's dedicated low power circuitry to power the NFC hardware, which obviously doesn't exist for the display.
> For what it is worth, at least on iPhone you can still use the bus/train pass feature in Wallet even when the battery is dead.
Doesn't seem like it'll help in this case, seems Ryanair is forcing the usage to be via their app instead of anything else.
It depends on the details. Last time I flew I used the airline's app to get the ticket which were then immediately loaded into wallet and read via NFC at the gate.
But this is Ryanair so it's probably going to do some stupid QR thing that will be super touchy and be a struggle to work on at least half of the devices. Bonus points if the app refuses to start if it can't make a live internet connection back to some cursed cloud service so the people waiting in line who accidentally let their phone go to sleep find they can't get it to show the ticket in the dead zone at the gate.
For what it's worth, I flew multiple times using the boarding pass from their app without any problem.
You need the app to download the pass (AFAIK) but it goes into your Google/Apple wallet after that. I have the app disabled (so it can't run in the background, as much as possible), and I only use it to get the pass.
I wish they'd just let me download a pkpass file, but what can you do.
You pay 50 €.
No problem. Normally they can print a ticket for you. 50 bucks...
We talk about ryanair, the scummiest of the bottom scum of airlines, they wanted to charge everybody 2 euros to use toilet (or did it pass? I can't imagine in EU, I would piss on their cabinets since I don't carry coins around).
I always print boarding passes, traveled enough to see tons of people struggling with their phones, with their pdf viewers or airline apps, to block everybody else to know what good manners and empathy to others (or simply less stressful travel) are. I wish I could save that atto fraction of a planet by not printing but it can't be like that with current ways of things.
Luckily ryanair is mostly absent from our airport (Geneva), its Easyjet all the way, way more than even Swiss airlines which chickened out on numerous levels on every swiss airport apart from Zurich. They are low cost with their share of issues but man, compared to ryanair they are absolute top versus rotten vomit, to keep things polite but precise.
> Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a smartphone (or the battery is dead)? They just can't fly?
Yup, based on this announcement, and previous policy calls they've made, that person won't be able to fly. End of. They lose their seat, kthxbye!
Ryanair has made its way in the budget market (arguably inventing the budget market to some extent), by employing money-making practices of dubious need from charging people to use toilets on-board, to flying with so little fuel that they regularly call fuel emergencies on approach.
Their bet - that the market seems to support - is that people will put up with almost anything if it means a cheaper ticket.
They're even expecting to get clearance from authorities to get rid of proper seating and move to "standing seats" so they can get more people onboard, their theory being you'll stand for 3 hours on a plane if it means your ticket is x% cheaper.
I refuse to fly with them on principle - they're a terrible airline owned by a terrible person, run in a terrible way. It's only a matter of time before people realise just how dangerous they are as an operation. I hope it's just a data security issue they run into and people run away from the app scared, and not the increasingly inevitable hull loss that many have been predicting for years.
This is just another reason not to fly with them, for me.
> charging people to use toilets on-board
AFAIK this has never happened.
This is a PR stunt that is regularly used (like the idea of standing-room-only tickets) to generate a new round of press for the company and highlight how cost-efficient and ruthless they are, which aligns with their branding and keeps the story alive.
I understand the sentiment but as sibling comment points out, you're very light in the way of stating facts to back up these claims.
There's an interview with the CEO where he explains (claims) the idea of that policy is to reduce demand so they can leave out a couple of toilets and put in / sell more seats -- it's not about the charge for the toilet per se.
> There's an interview with the CEO
May I point out that your counter-argument to "this is a PR stunt" is "no no, the CEO himself floated this idea publicly and got interviewed in the press to talk about it".
>to flying with so little fuel that they regularly call fuel emergencies on approach.
If you're talking about the recent incident, I thought that was because they tried landing several times at different airports? Is there any evidence that they routinely fly with less fuel buffer than other airlines?
Sure, I first heard about this years ago when Channel 4 (a UK broadcaster) ran a program about pilots stating they were concerned about the policy. There had been outrage within the aviation industry after three fuel emergencies in one day at one airport. [0] Ryanair sued [1], and lost: Channel 4 had engaged in fair journalism, it turns out.
Seems they're still at it, hence the recent incident.
[0] https://www.eurocockpit.eu/news/fuelling-debate-safety-vs-pr... [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23686678
All three flights were diverted due to weather, and none of them fell below the legally required amount of fuel. One has to wonder if it’s really reasonable to criticize them in this instance if a single weather event affected them all.
a lot of hearsay saying they pack less fuel than other airlines (but not below minimum required limit) in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45539943
> (but not below minimum required limit)
I hate just about everything I know about Ryanair but if they're not below required limits, then I'd say they're not the problem and the point is moot.
but no one said they did illegal stuff;) just purposefully unsafer stuff than other airlines
strawman
I mean it isn’t surprising people put up such abuse when I find that usually these discount airlines are half the ticket price of a major carrier for the same sort of flight. I’ve gotten remarkably good at efficiently packing my allotted small personal item bag.
I have no idea about Europeans, but as an American who's flown a lot recently, the push to smartphone based tickets has been a nightmare. Not because of the tickets, but people aren't seemingly smart or considerate enough to use them correctly.
Paper tickets were so fast. Fold, press, beep, done.
App based tickets? Constant announcements (I'm talking 10 or more during boarding) to turn your brightness up. Despite that, I saw
1 - 25ish percent of people had dark screens, so the attendant had to take the phone, up the brightness, scan it, then hand it back.
2 - A number of screen with cracks or something (didn't get a good look) that required moving the QR code around to get it to scan.
3 - An alarming number of people who didn't bother to even unlock their phone, who then proceed to fumble with thumbing or face scanning, close whatever they were doing, then go into the app and find their ticket.
I'd say the boarding process took at minimum two to three times as long as they did with purely paper tickets.
The paper scanning is hardly the limitation with onboarding.
I feel like you never fly because if you did, you’d know the biggest limitation in boarding speed is the inefficient method they use to board people… not the scanning part. If everyone scans efficiently (something you see often at places like SFO), you just are waiting on the jet bridge… It only takes one person who needs to take off their coat before they sit down or has trouble putting their oversized carry on in storage, etc. to completely shutdown onboarding.
It's ok to point out a flaw in my argument without calling me a liar.
I probably should have said 3x the scanning time, perhaps not total boarding time, I agree with that much.
That said, if the person blocking your seating arrived on the plane 20 minutes later because scanning took an extra 20 minutes, that still means you were delayed 20 minutes + person blocking you.
But I'd expect someone who flies from an airport smarter than everyone else in the US to have already factored that in.
Temporarily controlling screen brightness is something that, at least on android, the app can do itself...
The cracked screen thing - funny.
I wonder how long these twats will hold out.
I hope by the next time I fly Ryanair, someone has figured out how to emulate the look of the app and extract the relevant data so I don't have to run their garbage malware on my phone in order to have the pleasure to fly a "cheap" airline which bills you for everything after using every dark pattern imaginable when you purchase their tickets.
I fly a lot and most people are using their phones now without issue. But when someone does have an issue I remind myself that many people rarely fly, and haven't been through the process hundreds of times. Phone, paper, whatever - people screw it up if they haven't done it before. Boarding first, pre-check/global entry are all beneficial in part because you're dealing with other frequent flyers.
Quick, someone make a new list:
Myths programmers believe about app-based airline tickets
1) Smartphone users have a constant, reliable, and fast connection to the internet.
2) People flying Ryanair always have a charged phone.
2a) Okay, but at least a powerbank.
While annoying, the boarding pass scanning process usually isn't the bottleneck.
After I scanned my boarding pass, I then waited in line in the jet bridge, because people in the plane were busy putting their luggage in the overhead compartments, searching for their seats, moving to let people sit in the window seats, and other assorted activities.
This announcement is a load of bull. See this page about the new system:
https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
> But what if, and what if, and what if?
> If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone or tablet dies / is lost, you will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
> If passengers don’t have a smartphone or tablet, as long as they have already checked-in online before arriving at the airport, they will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
Wow, this might just be an improvement on the status quo (app optional, but high boarding pass printing fee if it's not used).
I don't think this policy will hold up in the face of Ryanair ticket resellers though, since it seems to be pretty clearly designed to make their life harder once again, but free replacement printing would offer them a way out.
> "If X or Y or Z... you will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport"
After queueing for 1.5h in a single queue for the entire flight, served by one service crew person.
And some Swissair agent denying knowledge about this new policy
It's hilarious how many HN commenters claimed these things weren't true without bothering to check.
Traveling seems to be essential, but having the App Store, iPhone, or Android definitely are not.
What happens if your phone is stolen, broken, discharged? Finally, I fly several times a month with different companies, does that mean I should have a circus of apps on my phone?
I hope someone will regulate this matter.
More broadly, we need regulation where companies cannot make "ownership of the newest smartphone" a requirement to do business with them. I'm lucky to be in the USA where we still haven't smartphone-ized everything yet, but every year I see it creeping in. Every year, a new bank requires a smartphone to create a passkey or whatever. Every year, a restaurant I like moves over to QR code menus. Every year, a doctor decides to move over to smartphone-based payments only. And of course, all of the crappy app developers insist that 1. I use a very recent phone and 2. I run the latest OS, or I'm shut out.
I have no problem with enabling smartphone-based payments and passes for people who like them, but companies should not be allowed to block out (or charge extra to) others who prefer not to tether themselves to a phone.
Here in some European countries, like France, having a smartphone out in a restaurant is a sign of bad etiquette. It's not crucial, but from some people's perspective it might seem out of place. However, some restaurants tried QR code menus due to COVID-19, but most of them have since stopped using them.
I fully agree that having the latest version of a phone/OS should not be treated as a requirement for access to services, especially essential ones.
>. And of course, all of the crappy app developers insist that 1. I use a very recent phone and 2. I run the latest OS, or I'm shut out.
Signal did this when my wife's Macbook could no longer be updated to the latest Apple OS version. Signal just stopped working for her completely on her laptop. She couldn't install the latest version of Signal due to her not being on the latest OS, and Signal won't allow the old version to work once it's outdated. We had to buy her a whole new laptop (not Apple this time) to get her back on Signal (something she relies on).
Yes, I know about the hacky workarounds to get the latest OS working on a Macbook, but fuck that noise.
I was not an active Signal user, but the same thing happens with Signal on my macOS Catalina, which I also don't want to update.
Luckily, email is always with me, despite OS version and platform.
Third party developers dropping support for OS versions that are, frankly, not even very old, is a scourge in software today.
I can maybe understand sunsetting support if the OS made a huge backwards-incompatible step change, but macOS and iOS updates don't tend to be that kind. The differences (for developers) between Catalina and Mojave are minuscule. Retaining support for Mojave should be close to zero effort on the part of the developer. There should be no difference in maintenance burden between building an application that runs on Mojave and Catalina, and building an application that runs only on Catalina+.
>More broadly, we need regulation where companies cannot make "ownership of the newest smartphone" a requirement to do business with them.
I'm not keen on mobile apps in general, but I don't see a need for regulation here. Companies want customers. It's not in their interest to needlessly harass people with pointless technology requirements that drive people to competitors. No company has ever required "the newest smartphone" for everyday tasks.
I don't support a general right to refuse adoption of any and all new technologies. What I do support is a mandate to use open technologies wherever possible for infrastructure that no one can reasonably avoid. What we can't allow is that people who lose some oligopolist account can no longer live a normal life.
"Companies want customers" is often not enough of a market force to result in behavior that is inclusive of everyone, which is why, for example, we need things like the Americans with Disabilities Act, which mandates that companies' services are accessible to all, and other laws which require full and equal accommodations. We could almost argue that making things "[new] smartphone only" might violate the ADA. I'd like to see such a lawsuit.
I agree that we sometimes need regulation to guarantee access for everyone.
But regulations need to be kept up-to-date and they need to be consistently enforced. That's a lot of work. Having too many of them only helps lawyers and people who can afford them.
Some random company requiring a smartphone for access to some service doesn't strike me as exclusionary enough to justify burdening the system with more regulation.
>Companies want customers.
Indeed, and that's why perhaps some internal marketing analytics show that people with installed apps often buy tickets from the same airline company. Then, we discover how airline companies decide to push their mobile phone application adoption through mandatory tickets.
Such decisions are always about sales, and never about security or customer care.
You're probably right. I just think it's not worth piling the equivalent of technical debt on our legal system just to curb small annoyances. Budget airlines are an incredibly rich source of small annoyances.
> I have no problem with enabling smartphone-based payments and passes for people who like them, but companies should not be allowed to block out (or charge extra to) others who prefer not to tether themselves to a phone.
I agree with this. (The same would apply to restaurant menus.)
(In the case of restaurant menus, they could post a single copy near the entrance or somewhere that it can be seen by everyone in case they do not want to make multiple copies (and do not want to waste paper). E-paper displays might be used in case they sometimes change.)
> What happens if your phone is stolen, broken, discharged?
Pay Ryanair 50 bucks for a printed boarding pass at the counter.
Thanks, but I'm fine with printing my own boarding pass at home for free.
From my perspective, even a paid toilet (1) would be a better offering than this.
1. https://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Green/paying-pee-airlines-crit...
> What happens if your phone is stolen, broken, discharged?
Another comment says that if any of those apply (or if you do not have a (compatible) smart phone) then you can still receive a boarding pass at the airport, although it seems that you will still need check-in online.
Do the checkin online and add the boarding pass to your ios/android wallet, as simple as that. Just did the last weekend with ryanair. Btw the faq specify that as long as you do the checkin online, if you lose your device or it dies a boarding pass will be printed for you for free
If a government offers official apps for those platforms and banks allow you to use some services for free via app but charge a fee if you show up in person I think airlines can get away with it too
Use a different airline, the free market will take care of the rest!
Not always a choice unless you want to spend the night at an airport and miss the thing you are flying in for.
And pay more than what you’d pay for ryanairs extortionate ticket printing service
Or use a different phone than apple's or google's, one that protect your privacy against airline companies stealing and resselling your data. The free market will... hem...
Haha all of them end up getting dragged down to Ryanair's level
Almost all short haul airlines in Europe more-or-less resemble the Ryanair model now
Typically other companies have used emails and websites to download passes. Maybe the same can happen here.
It's clearly explained in Ryanair's press release that this is not the case and the application is mandatory.
You can check in online before leaving for the airport in that case.
Traveling by plane, and specifically by budget airline, isn't essential. I'm not in favor of Ryanair's move here but it's also a free market, they can add restrictions and the market will react to it.
I'm fine with restrictions if they are reasonable/justified. I don't have an app store and I'm not planning to use one, and it's unclear to me why I'm unable to download and print a ticket when they can do the same for €50.
From a personal computer there are zero requirements, I don't need to have a special OS, or application, or anything. On the mobile application side, I must have one of two authorized app stores, an account there, and perhaps a specific OS version. This is something that I find unfair in this business practice.
What do we do if/when all other airlines copy Ryanair (again)?
Reminder what kind of company ryanair is. At one point some 15 (?) years ago ryanair used to charge you 60 euros if you showed up at the boarding gate having only the boarding pass on your phone instead of printed on a piece of paper. There was absolutely no reason for this (their reader reads as well from phone as from paper) other than betting that some fraction of the people would forget to print their boarding pass in paper. And they were right, I saw it in front of me many times and one time almost happened to me. If memory serves me I believe that at the time this was regulated out by the EU.
Here's another one. I read some headline years ago that the ryanair boss was happy to order as many 737 MAX as he could, despite the planes reputation for problems, because if you make the flights cheap enough, people will still fly on it.
I have no doubt he's right, but says something about him and the company.
They have a history of buying a lot of planes whenever there's a chance to get them cheaper. Typically, they sell planes for more than they cost to buy new.
For the 737 max at least, they built a simulator training facility in Dublin so they could train their pilots faster for when the max returned to flight.
I wouldn't take anything their CEO says at face value though. He's often saying provocative things just to get news coverage (cheaper and more effective than traditional advertising), and admits to that himself.
20 years ago Ryanair included free baggage - they started charging in 2006.
Ok but what you're describing is the classic "be cheaper than competition, gain market share, then raise prices" and is basically how business works. Almost every company does this if they are run well enough to manage to pull it off.
Setting up rules to trick customers to make mistakes and then demand 60 euros for printing a sheet of paper is morally dishonest and I would say most don't do this.
Ryanair basically invented most of the dark patterns that are now prevalent in all travel websites. Back then, the experience was so awful that it was comical (and even inspired a song[0]). Therefore I'm not surprised that they are the first to mandate you install their app on your phone. All other companies that have dreamed of this will be quick to follow suit.
Notice the euphemism of calling this "going digital". Everybody is already digital, using a pdf reader on their phone at the terminal, despite some companies discouraging this practice. That's not digital enough, is it?
[0]: https://youtu.be/Id-zzOGnN6A?t=102
"Ryanair, Europe’s No.1 airline, today (Thurs, 6 Nov) reminded passengers that from Wed (12 Nov) it will move to 100% digital boarding passes. This means that from Wed (12 Nov) passengers will no longer be able to download and print a physical paper boarding pass but will instead need to use the digital boarding pass generated in their “myRyanair” app during check-in to board their Ryanair flight."
Why does it matter whether the boarding pass barcode is scanned from a printed paper vs a phone screen?
Their app lets them exfiltrate data on you and use it for advertising/sell it to ad networks.
Didn't Uber get caught tracking their users (I want to say victims but there are actual victims of Uber sexual harassment/assault) even though they didn't have the app open?
Tracking where your passengers go on vacation would be useful data for them. Sheesh you could even track flights: "User was online at London Heathrow until 11:45, and was then offline, and came back online again in Madrid at 14:30, the corresponding flight at those times was EasyJet 78".
they say it is it's cause its greener but they could have used a website.
A pdf on your phone would've done that as well, but that's what they're explicitly banning with this move.
It'll be interesting to see where this is enforced. Most people won't actually see a member of Ryanair staff until the gate (at which point very often you're asked to scan your own barcode with a staff member present).
I reckon you'll be able to print out a screenshot of the app and use it to check your bags in and get through security. They won't hold a flight up with checked bags at the gate - will cost them too much money.
It's not rare that some staff are checking that passengers have all needed documents as they head to departures. Looks like they could check app usage there. They could also easily check the app when bags are checked in (that's Ryanair staff doing this).
In smaller airports (the ones Ryanair used to operate from) it's also sometimes their own barcode scanners before the gates that are dedicated to them.
I believe they will be able to enforce this in many places.
Ryanair use scan-and-drop self-checkin of bags in many airports.
It would also be curious to see who pays for removal of persons once they are airside - eg in the case the flyer with nothing to check in who goes past airport security, but before RyanAir staff meet them at the gate.
Unless it's a TOTP style code and changes
Unlikely - that would require changes for non-airline barcode users (eg Airport Security, Duty Free, etc)
Yeah you are right
Flying now requires you to own a smartphone
With Ryanair. Something to be avoided if at all possible, but a very bad precedent in any case.
Rather, enough people have smartphone that they won’t be object to using it as boarding pass.
And to install an app, which almost certainly has privacy invasion baked into the terms of use.
Anti theft perhaps? Last March a guy was able to sneak onto a Delta flight by taking a picture of someone else's QR code. Some ticketing apps have temporal QR codes that are resistant to this exploit.
Wouldn't that be noticed when the actual passenger tried to board and the system said they were already on board?
They didn't verify the passenger's identity at the gate?
ID is never checked at the gate for domestic flights, only international, at least in the US.
This was the case being referenced: https://abc7.com/post/wicliff-yves-fleurizard-stowaway-secur...
I have never been asked to show ID on domestic flights at the gate.
For a period after 9/11, ID was required to be shown at the gate on domestic flights. I don't recall when that stopped, but it's been a while (and apparently long enough ago that apparently some have never had to do it).
I seem to recall IDs occasionally being checked at the gate prior to 9/11 as well. Memory is fuzzy, but they weren't checking boarding passes or ids at security. But back then I would always get my boarding pass at the check-in counter (sometimes exchanging an actual ticket for the boarding pass).
Memory is fuzzy…
Yeah, I can’t recall well enough to agree with you, can’t remember enough to dispute it, either. That was a long time ago. :-)
I spent some time looking for old information, best I could come up with was this article [1] from 1996 about requiring photo ID at check-in, which doesn't mention checking at the gate, but does mention why the airlines might be happy to do it (protect revenue by making sure passengers don't fly on other people's tickets... unless they share their name with the other person). This article [2] , also from 1996, is a little bit less precise about if people are denied at check-in or by gate agents.
I think it's all quite hazy, because if you had no checked bags and it was a small airport, but you might just go to the gate and try to get your boarding pass there. That and 24 years have passed. :D
[1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-09-11-fi-42564-...
[2] https://www.chicagotribune.com/1996/12/29/no-match-no-flight...
>Why does it matter whether the boarding pass barcode is scanned from a printed paper vs a phone screen?
They can't collect your data from a printed sheet.
It's may be a dynamic QR code that changes at intervals.
It has to be compatible with the physical scanners at the airport, e.g. before security. So Ryanair probably is not very flexible in how they design the code.
Does the QR code that you use when boarding have to be the same QR code that you use before security, though?
Maybe it’s nfc not qr.
A grim view of things to come. More companies will do this, and eventually your defacto tracking device (ie, your smart phone) will become your government-mandated tracking device. I'd like to stop traveling by air altogether. Sadly, I need to travel for work this December.
If you live in the EU, the euID app that's coming in the next few years will use the google play integrity API. It's all but inevitable.
It's really remarkable how committed the EU is to selling out to Americans.
> Sadly, I need to travel for work this December.
Tell your employer you need a phone.
Boarding an airplane, which requires that someone check your ID, is one of the most reliable tracking indicators available to show that a person was in a specific place at a specific time.
Nabbing people at airports is a common strategy for this reason.
Putting the boarding pass on a phone doesn’t make it easier for the government to know that you’re flying.
I just mean in general. If airplane companies normalize using an app then other companies may as well. Do you need a smartphone to pump gas? Or to use government services? How about to buy groceries? That sort of slippery slope is what I would be afraid of.
> If airplane companies normalize using an app then other companies may as well.
I fly a lot and can't remember the last time I had a paper boarding pass. When I board the vast majority of people also use their phones, so normalization has already happened with air travel.
You think this mandated budget airline app is only going to track a gate check-in and nothing else? My guess is that it will collect an absurd amount of extra data and waste endless amounts of time with up-sells and other dark patterns.
I'm not installing airline app. So electronic tickets (email PDFs) won't work either?
Agreed here. I'll check in online, but I'll only install their app as a last resort. I'm hopeful that boarding passes are still sent as PDF. Then again, I rarely fly Ryanair anyway.
"passengers will no longer be able to download and print a physical paper boarding pass"
Doesn't look like it will be possible. That's a deal breaker for me, I don't need another app spying on me on my phone.
The announcement says no downloads and required use of their app, but the dedicated help page says otherwise:
https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why are you specifically adverse to installing airline’s apps?
I'm averse to installing any apps. I don't want to use a smartphone, and I don't want companies or governments to mandate their usage. As a consumer you have no real way of knowing which apps are tracking you and selling your data and which are not. Every app is suspect, even if some are legitimately clean. Every single company that says "just use the app" is another roll of the dice: will they get breached and reveal my data? Are they tracking me and selling to advertisers / insurance companies / police? Consumers really have no way of knowing for sure.
Excessive surveillance.
Selling my location, list of the installed apps, cookies, whatever they can extract.
That's for starters.
But most importantly why the hell should I be forced to use phone app if having a printed pass was good enough?
I need to reverse your surprising question into: should I be expected to install, update, maintain and use apps of ALL the service providers I use?
Separate app for train provider A, another for train provider B, another for bus provider C.
No paper tickets.
An app to purchase groceries, another app to pay for the parking, another app to buy a coffee, another app to buy a newspaper in the kiosk. And app to check in the hotel, an app to order food in the restaurant, an app to call the tax return website (not the phone, an app).
Can you see now how absurd is to normalise it?
In addition to that (which is already bad), you will need a compatible smart phone (I do not have and do not intend to have; other people mentioned the same thing), and if you do have then it might use more battery power and more disk space, and sometimes the battery power will run out (or it can fail due to many other reasons), so it is even worse than what you mention.
In addition to the great reasons others posted, I'll point out another one: Most airline apps won't even install or run on my device anymore. So, even if I wanted to use the airline's app (I don't), their developers have chosen to not support my device, and therefore I cannot even install or run it.
If a company is going to make something a requirement like this, they need to also invest in the effort to support everyone's device, and not block people with old, icky phones.
It's an unnecessary invasion of privacy for one, and not everyone has or wants a smartphone or to install third party apps, or carry it with them onto the plane. It could also be dead, broken or otherwise incompatible, or the passenger may have a disability or religious reason that prevents them from using it.
Think about the future ramifications if more companies were to implement this invasive garbage. Do you want to have to install mcdonalds app to order their food? Great clips app to get a hair cut?
I don't carry a smartphone.
A "boarding pass" was always a redundant document anyway. As are "tickets" whenever ID is required for the service in question. The ID has a number on it, in the system that's the ticket. In police states like China, tickets are a thing of the past.
That flying - an entirely unsustainable mode of transport - is now widely viewed as a commoditized consumer good is already a form of ethical collapse IMO. Now this. We need regulation. But for that, people need choose it, to vote for it.
Huh. I feel like one of Ryanair's major profit centres in the past has been that €50 fee they charge to print your boarding pass at the counter when the app doesn't work...
Sure.
You'll no longer be able to print a boarding pass but they will.
And more importantly from https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ryanair/id504270602 which people now are required to download and install:
> Data Linked to You - Location, Contact Info, Identifiers, Usage Data, Other Data
Any app that you log into "links" anything in your profile to your phone, so of course it links this information.
I'm all for calling out bad privacy practice, like when a Weather app says it links your contact info. But an airline app inherently does this.
Did you know that Ryanair knows your name when you fly! They even know what city you're flying from.
They didn't necessarily have to know my main email address though! Or a list of the installed apps.
Installing as an app doesn’t share your main email address and they can only identify apps from a fixed list, so it’s not really useful to do that.
Oh sorry, missed that one.
> your main email address
Right, it doesn't get my main email at the moment, true, turns out an app needs `android.permission.GET_ACCOUNTS` to do that. I do, however, expect them to do that later -- looking at their declared permissions, it's hard to assume a good will:
- `BLUETOOTH_SCAN`, `ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION`, `ACCESS_ADSERVICES_AD_ID` -- all together. Yes, I see they use `android.ext.adservices`
`READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE`? `WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE`? What for? Do they even offer saving a PDF into a Downloads folder? I think they can do it without asking for the separate permission.
> and they can only identify apps from a fixed list
While it's true they would require `QUERY_ALL_PACKAGES` to openly get a _complete_ list, see this: https://www.medianama.com/2025/04/223-android-apps-data-brea...
And then check their admitted privacy practices/policy from their Google Play listing (com.ryanair.cheapflights)
Notice, the first section is `DATA SHARED`, not just collected. It's shared with the undisclosed third parties (we know from the privacy policy[1], though, that at the very least it includes all the social networks
>> App Activity: installed apps >> Purposes: Analytics, Personalisation
>> Also: Email address, financial information, physical address, user payment info, phone info.
`DATA COLLECTED`:
>> Photos, User ids (plural, it's not just email used to login), Installed apps once again, Files and docs (?!)
Generally;
I have a very little trust for a vendor that is known for the deceptive practices and which lies from the outset about the reasons to force all passengers into using their app.
If they lie in such a fundamental question, it should be assumed they're using deceptions and trickery.
Like with disgraced Meta caught red-handed on deception and trickery: https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/06/meta-and-yandex-are...
[1] https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/lp/privacy-policy
I suppose if you’re on android the protections are a lot lower… At least based on your description
I agree. The fact AOSP doesn't offer blocking network by default is ridiculous.
Of course, Google is the ad company, this is the reason.
Thankfully I could contain and strangle it in its dedicated profile with the better AOSP variant. Works for the time being.
You can reject all of these permission requests and the app still works.
"Other Data" and "Identifiers" too? Don't remember seeing requests for those in any application.
The app still works /for now/.
Phone's dead/dropped under a bus tire/stolen at security/got bit-flipped by a cosmic ray, now what?
Nearly 80% of 207M passengers already adopted it means 41M passengers have not.
I apologize in advance for being overly dramatic. I just flew with a digital boarding pass and my phone nearly died while waiting at the outlet-less gate. I'm sure I could have gotten assistance, but it was stressful.
If you lose your phone or if it's out of battery, you'll get a free boarding pass at the airport as long as you checked in online before getting to the airport.
If you didn't check in before, you'll have to pay a 50€ fee. (Same as before)
Source: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
Empty battery is not unlikely in airports that make it extra-hard to recharge a phone (Looking at you, BER). Long ago it was possible to unplug a vending machine as a last resort, but these days all electrical sockets are concealed, as a measure to prevent overnight stays in airports I believe.
I like how their number one benefit is Order to Seat. In one fell swoop it shows that:
* Their priority is revenue above all else (fair enough; honest too)
* They are either deceptive or stupid
Re the deception/stupidity - if everyone is moving to using the same app, how does everyone "get served first" as per their bullet point?
Even before this, I already had all my
> Travel Documents: accessible in one convenient place.
in my hand, with it requiring exactly 0 clicks to present the piece of paper to the barcode scanner.
I'm a bit shocked the EU allowed them away with this.
Than you haven't been watching the EU enough. They are currently working on MULTIPLE different omnibus laws that will make owning an Google or Apple Approved Phone, running Google or Apple Approved Firmware and using the Google or Apple App store de-facto mandatory for living in the EU.
You vill download ze app and you vill accept the TOS.
*Downvote me all you want here's the proof:* https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...
What you are presenting is all opt-in.
Governments would mandate age requirements for many websites and these websites would be forced to check EU digital identity wallet.
It always begins that way to squash criticism.
For now
What about this do you think contradicts EU law?
The EU is remarkably laissez faire about a lot of things in the market.
How can this possibly be legal? If it truly is, the EU needs to get on it immediately.
I'm convinced they won't, they are just slow to react.
Wow, to hell with that. I'm not installing an airline app, even if I had a smartphone.
> faster
Scanning a QR code from a screen is faster than from a piece of paper? How does that work?
> smarter
A smart person would carry both a digital and paper copy of their travel documents.
> greener
Ah, yes, all it takes to make flying "green" is eliminating a single sheet of A4 paper per passenger.
> Ah, yes, all it takes to make flying "green" is eliminating a single sheet of A4 paper per passenger.
That's 80% filled with ads...
Ironic that RyanAir’s press release website has a print button as if anyone prints websites. There are a lot of advantages to paper and printers. As a general policy policy point I don’t love this direction. But also it’s RyanAir. This is by far the smallest customer rights violation that they have and will continue to commit. And at this point everyone should know that a 25 quid flight from Manchester to Madrid on RyanAir has a catch. Just be glad your luggage wasn’t jettisoned over the channel to save weight.
I specifically don't use smartphone boarding passes when travelling (on full service airlines, mostly LH group), just so they get the statistic of me using paper. (The barcode has an 'issue type' field, it's a single character and generally the only difference between digital QR and paper PDF417 contents.)
(I collect paper boarding passes and want them to stay ;)
I think requiring app is an overreach. I hate installing apps. If you want to save money and not do paper, I would just do this:
- Provide a discount/credit for using electronic digital boarding pass (PDF file, no apps). If someone is not able to use the PDF etc (either their own printout or on their phone) and require a paper pass at the airport for any reason, their discount/credit goes away. Simple.
I wonder how these gate agents will react if I show their app throwing a hissy fit and refusing to work when it is blocked from any data mining. No permissions, no google play services, no safetynet, maybe no network. It is non cooperation with their bs, but it looks like a technical issue. And, if it can work without such things, then I hate it much less.
Why should they care? Without presenting a boarding pass you can't even approach the gates, cannot pass security check.
And you cannot get a boarding pass without an app.
I just installed it on a fresh profile in GrapheneOS.
Blocked from any access except network, and it didn't even try to check Play Integrity API. Works okay. Didn't have a chance to check in/display boarding pass, but I could access all the details of my flight no problem.
Thank you for checking that. Last time I used it, I was pleasantly surprised that they didn't use android's screenshot prevention to stop you making a copy of the boarding pass. I took a screenshot as a backup in case I had issues with the app.
When you do this they charge you the human assist fee and boarding pass fee or you don't board.
I'd probably pay the fee, take my flight, then charge it back with a reason like "Fee for not using app, app did not work. Fee advertised as optional was not, in fact, optional for me". Completely true statement.
You would win but then Ryanair would ban you from flying with them in the future.
I don't know about Ryanair, but I've had to reverse credit card transactions due to scams a few times and I've never been banned from other businesses.
Ryanair has a history of banning people who dispute charges.
Probably thats the goal, so there is a way to charge a fee. Do you not know Ryanair
so many opportunities for shenanigans!
'watch this ad before we give you your boarding pass'
'no boarding pass for you until your group is called'
'ah ha! you have an iPhone 17 pro max instead of a $BUDGET_ANDROID, cool your seat fees will be 20% higher'
'oh you got your boarding pass on this device, but need it on a different device now? cool lets do a device transfer fee'
Ryanair are probably reading this thread looking for ideas.
But why? What is wrong with PDFs? Either printed or digitally?
Want to make it a little bit more fancy? Apple Wallet and Google Wallet both support a more fancy setup.
Technologically speaking banning the other things is only driven by hoping that people will forget something and they can charge extra.
What's next? They 'accidentally' kill the app during boarding. And they can up charge you.
A printed PDF doesn't sell your data for profit. An App does.
^ This, and nothing else. There is a dark, evil underbelly to the data broker ecosystem that is largely powered by random apps people install on their phones.
People who don't have a smartphone can ask Ryanair at the airport to print the boarding pass for free provided they did the online check-in.
I don't understand the reasoning here: how is this different than before? Why isn't this more costly for Ryanair?
The whole point of Ryanair has always been low cost flights by shoving passengers in and stick to the rules to make everything faster and having less staff. People want the £30 flight but don't want to stick to the conditions, ultimately. But that is the trade off you make.
Will the app requirement be disclosed at purchase everywhere? IE: If I am buying on a third-party online travel agent, will the checkout process state that in order to board the flight at the cost quoted, that I will need to have a smartphone with the app installed?
There does not appear to be an app requirement after all. You are required to check-in online before heading to the airport though.
See: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
Requiring a particular app for something that could be achieved by scanning a code (displayed on a screen) is bullshit.
And let me guess - then they'll use Play Integrity API so that you cannot fly if you're not using Google certified device with preinstalled privileged spyware (or lease an Apple device you don't own)?
Was hoping you could opt out by moving to Morroco, where local regulations bar digital boarding passes. But Ryanair still makes you get digital ones there, and have you redeem it for a physical one at the airport.
The airline that inspired at least one passenger to write a song about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1SKldiiWm4
The last time I flew Ryanair their printed boarding pass didn't work in security.
Not even when I went back and got them to print it at the desk.
I did eventually get their app to download it, and it was fine in that.
So. There's that.
This requires free USB loading stations at their gates. Do they provide these? I don't think so
Can I download the app, add the boarding pass to Apple Wallet and remove/disable the app? Or just take a screenshot of the boarding pass and then uninstall it?
Last I checked (2022), it has wallet support and didn't prevent you from taking screenshots.
I suspect that when you install the app, it will require all the juicy permissions like contacts, and hoover up lots of data before you even begin to use it. So the damage will have been done, even though you uninstall it soon.
Likely dynamic generated QR codes. These are becoming more and more common place.
Come on, it's not meant to be user-friendly, anyone who buys that deserves to buy a bridge.
Why force the app though?
And is it true it won't allow screenshotting?
Selling customer data for a premium, obviously.
Let's be honnest : more and more service will move to "only Smarphone" way. For economic reason (less process so less expences).
So what.
My 92 year old mother will never be able to fly RyanAir. She is unable to use a cell phone.
Ryanair is best thought of, not as an airline, but as a kind of carnival game that delivers a small monetary prize if you win, and a nasty electric shock if you do it wrong. By playing Ryanair, you have the opportunity to acquire a slightly cheaper flight, and if you can keep a steady hand and navigate the arbitrary rules (each a cunning trap), you can indeed save some money. Good luck.
Note: You can print a boarding card at the kiosk or agent desk.
So i can't fly with Ryanair unless I have smartphone.
> Will deliver a greener experience
LMAO. When you get people on a flight your unprinted paper is meaningless.
Can you display the boarding pass in a web browser? Allowing a RyanAir app on your phone seems high-risk.
Reminder to airlines ahead of move to more BS for your customers: You provide one of the most enshittified experiences ever conceived. I have been, and will continue avoiding flying at all costs until the customer is considered again.
Last time I flew Ryanair in July, I presented my phone to the agent to check my boarding pass. She took my phone to scan it. I turned my head to talk to my companion.
When I looked back, the agent was in my settings, quietly enabling all the permissions for the app (which I had deliberately disabled).
When I (shocked) told her off, she rolled her eyes and said I would need to change them anyway to scan the bag tags.
The cheek.
Seriously, just pin the app to the screen before handing your phone to anyone.
https://www.samsung.com/sg/support/mobile-devices/pin-an-app...
Yep. I naively thought that no-one representing a company would ever do such a thing.
TIL about App Pinning! It's also available in Android on Pixels.
I'm 100% certain the douche who runs Ryanair is extremely concerned about paper waste.
> What happens if I lose my smartphone or tablet?
> If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone or tablet is lost, you will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the airport.
Seems pretty clear what we need to do to stop this nonsense.
Given that Ryanair used to charge to print a boarding pass at the airport, it seems pretty likely their response will just be to do so again. This is a company which literally hates its customers.
Remember: you can always pick a different airline.
No, I can't. They're the only airline serving the city I have to visit a few times a year. Next two airports are 250 and 350 km away.
Not really feasible.
Until all other short-haul airlines copy them
They already copied many, many other aspects of the low-cost business model, so I'm sure this will follow
> Until all other short-haul airlines copy them
Like it or not, we live in a market economy with market competition. There are new airlines every year. In 2022 there was a net increase of 13 airlines in europe alone. If people want paper boarding passes, some competitor will give it to them. Always been like that in market economies, and socialists will keep fearmongering about "what one company does" like its the end of the world.
Yes, but also, collectively, democratically, via are laws, we can set where a race to the bottom ends.
Reminder, soon you need just a strong jammer to stop the world.
God fucking damn it send me a PDF with a QR code like a reasonable human being