When I first saw the Arduino I didn't see the point - after all there were boards that cost less, did more, and the Arduino IDE seemed very barebones compared to what you could do with GCC and a custom toolchain.
Then eventually I saw how much community support, ready made hardware emerged around it, to the point that after a while, not going the Arduino route was a decision you needed to justify heavily.
Same thing with the Raspberry Pi - there are commercial devices now running or more or less stock Pi hardware with some accomodations - the power of the community is just too large - you can either spend an insane amount of time getting things working on your custom SBC, or get something well-supported for free.
I hope that the same thing will happen with the Steam Machine - the pull of the community will result in a well-supported 'default' device where people (and Valve) will put in the effort to create a comparable desktop experience to the commercial OSes.
Valve already helped immensely with Wayland - it's crazy to think that the project was stared cca. 2008, and today there's still arguments to be made it's not mature yet - by investing the necessary energy to make sure games run well, the drivers are optimized, and there's a high-quality end-user library (wlroots) for writing compositors has been the push that Wayland needed.
> a comparable desktop experience to the commercial OSes
Isn't it alteady comparable? My Linux desktop has almost the same game compatibility that Windows has, and none of the advertising and jank. Gone are the legendary days of xorg.conf. Linux has less problems than Windows now. Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren't very relevant to me. As for Mac OS it's fine, I guess, but I strongly dislike the settings program, and it's not like you can install an nvidia card there.
People will buy a Steam Machine who would not buy a Linux desktop.
The perception and the marketing are very different. it is small and looks like games console. This is something people will buy instead of a Playstation or a gaming PC. A lot of people buying it will not know what Linux is.
It does not use the word "Linux" at all and only mentions Arch and KDE right at the bottom of the specs.
> Linux has less problems than Windows now.
I agree, and it has been my experience for the last few years. I am not a gamer nor do I use any of the software you mention so its even better for me. I am very glad not to be using Windows 11 from what I hear of it.
>People will buy a Steam Machine who would not buy a Linux desktop.
I have a Linux desktop and a mental block around playing games on a computer. The computer is supposed to be where I work or write code, etc. If I have leisure time, I "should" do something away from the computer.
Getting a steam deck let me shake some of that. I'd be very tempted by a box that is a Linux computer, but for fun use only.
And this is due to Valve's big investments in Proton, Steam Deck and the new Steam hardware to get game compatibility working from both the Linux/Wine side as well as making game developers aim for compatibility.
> Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren't very relevant to me.
I think that's maybe what GP was getting at. If you know how to debug stuff and such then Linux is perfectly serviceable today.
With something like this, between Valve presumably publishing some docs and a big community for a single platform it should become a lot easier for people who are less familiar to search "I got xyz error on my steam box what do I do" and get help they can use. For mass adoption I think that's a big step. And then from there they can start venturing further out, if they want.
What do these things have to do with each other? You can't debug your way out of bad Nvidia support or nonexistent Dassault support. You have to just not use these products in combination with Linux, or just accept the issues that come with them.
> You can't debug your way out of bad Nvidia support or nonexistent Dassault support.
With bad Nvidia support very often you can, there exist a lot of workarounds found by people.
With Dassault support you are right, because a lot less people use their products than Nvidia products and those people typically don't share on public forums.
People using Steam Machine will be sharing problems and solutions on public forums and there will be more of them than people using Dassault products.
> Support from professional software vendors [..] and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren't very relevant to me.
Quality of support from Nvidia on linux is the reason that I went with AMD for my linux work+gaming rig. That's why probably Valve chosen AMD too. As amount of linux gamers increases, maybe Nvidia will see the light too. For me, linux+AMD+Steam stack "just works".
Nvidia has always had a hard time maintaining good relationships with partners (see the whole Apple fiasco in the early 2010s), their Linux support is anemic and now they're gorged up to the gills with stupid AI money.
They probably don't even bother picking up the phone when Valve calls. Only AMD will sell you an integrated CPU/GPU system with the power envelope needed for modern games.
Yes - but now what would you rather plug into a big screen TV? Supposing you opt for an OS like Bazzite/pop that is TV friendly then you are turning a desktop into a multimedia console foremost. People like stuff that works out of the box.
Conversely You can also turn the Steam Machine into a desktop by installing another OS
Another nice thing about the Pi is that you know for sure there won't be any major Linux issues; the official distro is tested for that hardware and that hardware alone. I'm assuming the same will apply for Linux on the Steam Machine, whereas most of the time when I install Linux on a random PC, I have to debug some issue with audio/networking/video (which is less common these days, but I guess I'm unlucky).
Speaking of which, I recently bought a Ryzen Framework laptop assuming the recommended Linux distro would run smoothly, but unfortunately I hit a few glitches, including a really annoying amdgpu bug that keeps making the screen flicker. I might have to mess with kernel boot parameters. Disappointing.
Since the Steam Machine is meant as a consumer product, hopefully it will run Linux solidly, and that's a big plus for me. I wouldn't touch Windows with a 10 foot pole these days.
I have a Framework Ryzen AI 300 series. Had the screen flickering after a kernel update several weeks ago. Fix was to add "amdgpu.dcdebugmask=0x2" to the grub kernel cmdline. Running Fedora 43, fully up to date as of yesterday. I sadly can't find the official forum thread about it. Hope it helps though.
The Arduino was 30$ when it came out. The Raspberry was 35$.
I'd be astonished if they manage to get the Steam Machine down to 800$ (bundled with a controller). Knowing how Valve loves their margins, it's probably closer to 1000$ or even more. This is not something you spontaneously buy to play around with.
In one of the interviews that came out when the Steam Machine embargo ended, someone from Valve said that, unlike with Steam Deck, they can't afford to sell at a loss because the form factor and the OS of the Machine make it possible to buy it just for general compute, which would be devastating with negative margins. So, unfortunately, I guess it will be 800-1000$ in the end
That is still cheaper than the index when it came out, and it sounds like a general improvement in all areas. Flagship vr for less than the cost of the latest smartphone seems pretty reasonable given how low adoption is.
Moore's Law is Dead (chip analyst YouTuber) believes a $300 bill of materials and $600, maybe even $450 for the lower SKU.
The CPU and GPU in this are last generation, and he believes Valve got a bulk discount on unsold RDNA3 mobile GPUs. They did something similar with the Steam Deck riding off a Magic Leap custom design. People predicted that would be pricey too but launched with (and still has) a $399 model.
You have to take MLID with a several large grains of salt. He gets a lot wrong, and when he does, he deletes the corresponding videos. There are Reddit subs that won't allow links to his videos for that reason. Valve has also said that it won't be console-type pricing, more like the pricing of a decent SFF PC.
Having said that, it would be great to see the GabeCube come in around the prices he's guesstimating. I hope it finds great success.
300$ BOM sounds incredibly low to me, especially now with the exploding prices for storage and RAM. Maybe they have already stocked up on it, but I doubt it. The huge heat sink also cannot be cheap. Then of course there's the whole tariff uncertainty.
The lower SKUs for Steam Deck are sold pretty much with zero margin or even at a loss, as Newell said this was a strategic decision to enter the mobile gaming market. However, for PC gaming, Valve already has a monopoly, and selling general-purpose hardware with little or no margin sounds like a recipe for losing money quick, which is not what Valve is known for...
But hey, we don't have to argue. Let's meet on HN again when the price is announced and I'll happily eat my words. :-)
The hardware does not compare favorably to a 2024 (current, in other words) Mac Mini.
Consider what the Steam Machine requires sacrificing:
- fewer USB-C connectors
- larger physical footprint
- can't buy and take it home today
It's hard to do an apples-to-apples comparison between the chips, but where one is better than the other on some dimension, it's offset by some other. They're approximately comparable.
Now, what's the price of the Mac Mini? $598.92
When people are talking about price points that have a higher margin than even Apple's devices have, you have to stop and consider whether people who are tossing around numbers like $750 with a straight face are actually trying to be rational but failing or they are just totally yielding to getting caught up in the hype.
The Mac Mini for 600$ comes with 16GB unified memory and 256GB storage. To make it comparable, you'd need to configure it with 24GB and 512GB, resp., and voila, 999$. You are surely aware that the lowest SKUs from Apple have way lower margins, since nobody buys them anyway because who wants to live with 256GB of storage? It's just to have that sweet "starting at 599$" on the store front page.
Now, of course Apple takes ridiculous money for additional RAM and storage, but this is exactly how they achieve their famous margins (everything's soldered, so you cannot upgrade yourself). Thanks to the AI hype, DDR5 RAM is very expensive at the moment, as is GDDR5, as is SSD storage. Nobody here, including you, knows what kind of deal Valve will be able to get here. There's a reason they are not announcing any prices yet, because there are so many uncertainties at the moment (tariffs, anyone?), that most probably Valve themselves do not know yet.
Depends what people are buying a steam machine for and what are the alternatives. Can you use a Mac mini for pretty much the same purpose? Genuine question since I'm not a gamer nor a Mac user.
The Mac Mini does not have the sustained thermal capability of the big 6-inch fan in the Steam Machine. So it'll throttle. The Mac Studio probably has better thermals than what Steam will ship, but it's far more expensive.
The Mac Mini can play many games, but it cannot play most games like this Steam Machine. Developers barely supported the Mac before the ARM switch, and now it's somehow even worse.
Gaming with a Mac is an exercice in zen enlightenment.
AMD is in dire straits - their GPU market share is basically nothing right now, I wouldn't be surp
Plus the 7600M (which is suspected to be the Steam Machine GPU) is an existing design on a legacy node, and they don't have to worry about it threatening their current lineup. They can go pretty low with the price.
They might get something out of it - considering the modest hardware, devs will have to optimize for it, which might get them a couple extra percent on more modern hardware as well.
This is already happening with the Steam Deck! Some of the best AAA games released in the last few years play excellently on the Steam Deck. This is mainly because it provides an excellent baseline that developers can test and optimise for. When least 1.5% or more of your customers have this exact configuration, it makes sense to optimise for them.
The 2023 game of the year was Baldurs Gate III. During the development they specifically tested on the Deck and it played pretty well. But they optimised the heck out of it, finally shipping a native Deck build earlier this year.
That’s why the Deck punches well above its weight - all the optimisation that devs do for it. And that’s why gamers continue to buy it, years after it released. Devs aren’t lazy, or averse to optimisation. They just need a large enough target to optimise for. If the Deck/GabeCube is a large enough proportion of the player base, they’ll put in the effort.
Experts tend to greatly underestimate the importance of friction.
By the time you’ve finished saying “gcc and a custom toolchain” you’ve lost most of your potential audience. If you’re a professional or even an experienced hobbyist, it’s no big deal. But if the idea of programming embedded systems is new to you, it’s a lot of effort. And it’s not clear how much effort it will be, or if you’ll even be capable of it. It’s not fun to be knee deep in a complicated install and have no idea if you’ll ever be able to get it working. Lots of people will find something else to occupy their time rather than attempt it.
That then leads to community and better tools, and maybe it becomes a good choice even for experts. And even if it never does, it provides a great stepping stone, since trying and failing to set up the more complicated tools is a lot more tolerable if you can fall back to the simple IDE you’ve been using.
SteamOS is locked down. it is not a community driven project. You cannot update if you modify the rootfs. Valve created a true console, it is not a PC.
Sorry that’s absolutely not the case. They’ve created “locked down” experience so that is serviceable and harder to break but you’re absolutely free to install arch, ubuntu, whatever and put Steam on top of it. You can install Windows even.
You don’t have to choose “all or nothing”. You are not being locked in an ecosystem like you do with the consoles Steam Machine aims to compete with.
Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox.
A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless.
I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC.
Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users.
Given Valve gave money to a lot of open source maintainers , it’s also great for Linux.
Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat** or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage*** if you're into those kinds of games.
* I don't care what the intention is, they are _objectively_ intrusive.
** Last time I argued this, someone seemed to assume that I was claiming that writing Linux kernel drivers is harder than Windows kernel drivers. I am not arguing that, you need some kind of trusted party enforcing signed kernel drivers and a signed kernel in order to make KLA sufficiently hard to bypass.
*** In terms of the average Joe just wanting their game to run rather than having to think about the ethical implications of buying hardware you don't actually own or running an OS which gives control of your hardware to various corporations (but not you).
> Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat* or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage** if you're into those kinds of games.
Depends on just how successful SteamOS gets. If it start to have a significant market share, competitive multiplayer games might start to find it hard to ignore it. Though how they decide to deal with that, I have no idea.
I think Valve see a future for anti-cheat where most of it is behavioral analysis. Client-side anti-cheat is a big game of cat and mouse. It does make cheat harder to develop, but to a point where the customer is impacted. Post game analysis cannot be countered "technically". Cheat would need to mimic a real player behavior, which at the end is a success. If you can't tell if a player is cheating or not, does it matter that they are ? Although for things like wallhacks, it might be harder to detect.
"you can't tell if a player is cheating or not, does it matter that they are"
This is basically effectively where KLA has gotten to. There are still plenty of cheaters, people just don't realize.
I think it does matter in a strictly moral sense, and if people were more aware of how bad the problem is, they would likely be outraged. Alas, since they can't see it, they are not aware of it, so there is no outrage and the games companies are satisfied.
I think the assumption that Valve would choose user protection over getting games to work is flawed, they want openness where possible because they see it as a competitive advantage. With VAC they clearly think that maximally invasive anti-cheat isn't necessary so maybe they'll try to push providers in that direction?
Valve thinks it's not necessary and it's still in the air if it really isn't.
They have bet on the behavioral analysis anti-cheat horse but it hasn't won any races yet.
Moreover, they've proven that it's certainty more difficult to get it working than regular old fuck-the-end-user anti cheat.
Lastly, don't assume that the success of the platform will persuade these companies. They were already firmly un-persuaded when the steam deck got popular. And really, I think the popularity of a platform depends on the support of these companies more than the support of these companies depends on the popularity of a platform.
There is a real need for anti cheat / certified hardware. Valve is uniquely be positioned to address it because they have trust from the gaming community. Ideally a single anti cheat mechanism would be shared by all software vendors. Online games could request "console mode" involving hardware key exchange. Done right this wouldn't have to be invasive like current anti cheat.
It's either invasive anti-cheat on a vendor controlled platform or it's a totally locked down vendor controlled platform, there are no other options in the client side anti cheat space.
Given that valve refuses to use KLA for their own competitive multiplayer games, and has gone out of their way to not make their hardware locked down, I really dont think they will go down the path of making a locked down platform or facilitating intrusive anti cheat.
Is it truly either-or? Obviously the root of anti-cheat needs to be totally locked down, aka the TPM. But almost all "open" computers have a locked down TPM. The TPM doesn't need to prevent you from running an unsigned firmware, kernel, modules or user software, it only needs to report on whether you are / have. You can reboot your computer into "trusted" mode and run your games with anti-cheat. Then when you're done playing you can as much unsigned software as you want.
You ask if it's either intrusive spyware or if it's a locked down system and then describe dual-booting intrusive spyware.
A TPM is entirely under your control. It's designed in such a way that you can't do certain things with data within it, but that's not because (at least in theory) someone else can and is controlling your TPM to prevent you from doing those things. The TPM, unlike an installation of Windows, doesn't only listen to Microsoft.
What I'm describing is exactly the situation now. Many people dual boot Windows & Linux, with kernel level anti-cheat on their Windows partition. The existence of Linux on the same computer does not prevent the kernel level anti-cheat from working on Windows.
Similarly, the presence of unsigned software on a computer would not stop a Linux kernel level anti-cheat from working, and the kernel level anti-cheat shouldn't prevent the unsigned software from working. Once you run that unsigned software, your machine is tainted similarly to the way your kernel is tainted if you load the NVidia driver.
I wonder if it’s possible to implement anti-cheat as a USB stick. Your GabeCube or gaming PC would stay open by default, but you could buy an anti-cheat accessory that plugs into a free USB port. Connecting that device grants access to match making with other people who have the device.
There are several products that rely on a USB device like this for DRM solutions. It’s probably much easier to unlock static assets than validate running code, but I don’t have insight on the true complexity.
>I wonder if it’s possible to implement anti-cheat as a USB stick. Your GabeCube or gaming PC would stay open by default, but you could buy an anti-cheat accessory that plugs into a free USB port. Connecting that device grants access to match making with other people who have the device.
What does the USB stick actually do? The hard part of implementing the anti-cheat (ie. either invasive scanning or attestation with hardware root of trust) is entirely unaddressed, so your description is as helpful as "would it be possible to implement a quantum computer as a USB stick?"
> Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users.
We are also out of the rat race of hardware requirements of the 90s. I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch, that thing can run a lot of games. It's mainly storage and RAM for modded minecraft or Satisfactory that's a bit of a mess atm. Though RAM prices are spicy at the moment, jeez.
Similar, my dad has my system from 10 years ago or more, and the only real snag for his strategy games is now a DX12 requirement.
> I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch
Yep, people who didn't fall for the resolution meme can play any games maxed out with a 2060. People chasing 4k and 120+ fps will never ever get satisfied and will always spend $1k every other year for the new high end gpu
I made two upgrades since 2015, ryzen 7 1700 to ryzen 5 5600,for $100. And I swapped my gtx 970 for an rtx 2060, for $300
It's certainly not an existential threat to Playstation, but Xbox certainly has weakened itself enough that yes, this could be another nail in the coffin, given that their plan was to retreat into the Windows ecosystem.
The low specs aren't a problem if it's cheap enough, but for every dollar this goes above the retail price of a PS5 will seriously hurt its mass appeal.
The problem for Valve is that they can't really sell this thing at a console-like discount, because it's a general purpose computer. If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever (just like what happened to Sony when they allowed the PS3 to boot into Linux and they had to release an emergency update that disabled the linux functionality even though it was an advertised feature).
I really hope this will be successful, but it'll likely be successful in a specific niche. The nice thing though about this niche is that they don't have to hit anywhere near the same sales numbers as a console to be a success because the R&D costs are lower, and games didn't have to be specifically tailor made for it.
E.g. the PS Vita sold more units than the SteamDeck, but the Vita was an unmitigated failure for Sony because unlike the SteamDeck, the Vita needed games to be specifically made for it, whereas the SteamDeck benefits from the entire PC ecosystem so doesn't need the same level of adoption to be a (limited) success.
> If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever
Sure, but corporations don't want/need the same spec. They don't need the GPU, they don't need the fancy controller. If you just want a cheap PC that'll run a browser and Office, you can get them for under $200. If you want a Beelink with CPU/RAM/SSD similar to the Steam Machine, that's $350, and it includes a Windows license. Steam machine has an estimated BOM of $425, so even $500 will be a subsidized price after overhead. As long as Valve prices well above $250 it'll be safe from this concern, since corporations will likely want to add a Windows license to the cost.
> It's certainly not an existential threat to Playstation
To add to this, PlayStation is almost entirely sustained by exclusives at this point, and it's starting to backfire (more and more players are just waiting for the PC release, and the wait is killing some of marketing/hype that a game would have had, e.g., FF16 likely would have done a lot better if it released for PC at the same time rather than starting with PS exclusivity, and I suspect Death stranding 2 will be the same
> If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever
On one hand, this would be a problem.
On the other hand, if the Steam Machine doesn't support windows, businesses fleeing from MS Windows en masse because the Steam Machine is cheap would be a VERY interesting turn of events, and I'd be VERY curious to see how it all unfolds.
Sorry if I was unclear, but what I was saying was that this would be unsustainable because the only way it'd be possible is if Valve was subsidizing each unit in hopes of recouping their losses on Steam game sales.
If that happened, Valve would get bankrupted by companies buying up subsidized Steam Machines with no intention of playing games on them.
Yes that's what I understood. But it'd still be insteresting.
Amazon was once a bookstore. There's nothing stopping Steam from adapting to a "Steam Business Machines" / "Steam OS Business Edition" once it has a foothold in the business market. After all, the store already distributes software, they're just not as popular as games. So if this scenario were to happen, and Microsoft failed to react, I'm sure Steam would adapt very quickly to take advantage of it rather than sit and wait for the bankruptcy.
I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me in all the ways that matter, and it's probably going to save me from spending 1500 euros on a mid-range gaming laptop that I don't really need. The only thing that I don't use my ipad for is playing games with my friends in other countries while we chat on discord. And the last 5 games we've played together do benefit from keyboard and mouse controls, but don't have huge spec requirements. And pretty much everything else for which I'd want a bigger screen than my ipad's can be done in the browser, which I can also happily install on the steam machine because it's just a Linux machine with some extra bells. So yeah, it will probably completely replace my need for a PC, and I'd be plenty happy to pay a PC price for it as a result.
> I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me
because "console" isn't what a product is (supply) - it is a name for product niche (demand)
when someone talks about buying a console, the expectations are 1)significantly cheaper than "usual" computer 2)most likely optimized for games (controller input, easy install) 3)expectation of using already existing TV as display
consoles weren't different from low-end pc all the way since x-box
I don't know what Linux you're on. On mine I have to actively maintain it. I have to run something `sudo apt update` `sudo apt upgrade` every week or so and then deal with whatever breaks. Conversely, on my Switch and PS5 it does this automatically. I expect the Steam Machine will also update itself automatically. They have an incentive not to break things since it will cost them money to fix all the device they break. Linux on the other hand (not complaining) basically says "not our fault if it breaks". So, I'd prefer the Steam Machine where, I believe, it is their fault if it breaks and they will fix it.
Sometimes there are regressions in the kernel and other driver issues. My laptop is more than five years old and I had to boot an older kernel for a while until a regression got fixed. I guess that's less likely to happen on Windows. Not being as close to the hardware vendors means there are bound to be more edge cases even on boring distros like Ubuntu.
If you don't need to get an expensive gaming PC your should not get an expensive gaming PC. The steam hardware isn't magic. You can already get equivalent specs for cheap.
I've tried to hit the $600 mark and in the past few years it's gotten harder and harder. The GPU invariably ruins things. And normal APUs are too asthmatic to really game on.
The APU from AMD they have is pretty much magic. You will not find anything comparable, any Ryzen APU you can actually buy is pretty much trash apart from very light-weight gaming. You absolutely need a separate GPU, and even low-end will set you back at least 250$. The only way to build something comparable for cheap would be to buy used.
The APU in the steam deck isn't anything too special (the 740M is comparable but is RDNA3). For the GabeCube they are using a customized 7600M, which previously has been used in many eGPUs for Chinese handhelds (at a very high price).
AMD does have some pretty powerful APUs right now, but I don't think we'll see it on many mass market
How customized it is, I guess we'll find out closer to release, but I am guessing just based on the dimensions that it is just customized specifically for the case, for space and cooling reasons.
A similar PC without the fit and finish with just consumer parts comes in at around $900.
Curious how much pull valve has with AMD to get this into people's hands.
Exactly, I sold my Switch because I just happened to play most of my games on PC and steam. Worst case scenario, it can be a desktop computer (I don't have one, only a laptop)
Whereas a playstation or a switch, once I don't game anymore, it's just an expensive paperweight
Man, I got a free ps5 from my isp and was excited to have friends over for games. Come to find out that playing games with your friends apparently isn’t a thing anymore (I guess there’s fighting and racing games). What a lame-ass boring system.
This is why I've been all in on Steam for so long! The catalog is so huge, there's a massive number of fantastic couch multiplayer games. It is indeed a bit more fiddly... I've found that it's generally easier to connect my Steam Deck to the TV and play lower fidelity games than it is to fiddle with a Windows machine that needs to be prepped for friends popping in every other month.
Although, Nintendo is still doing a good job at keeping the couch-social experience alive, and building 1st party games that can be good solo experiences but really shine when played next to a friend sitting on the same couch.
I used to rally friends over for couch gaming years ago. Think I'll try to put something together for Thanksgiving. Been a bit out of the loop - any recent PC couch games you recommend for normies? I think for my group, it'll lean casual / co-operative. Nintendo's always felt too kid-like for us.
"It takes two", "Split Fiction" and "Lego Voyage" are the same style of casual two-player coop. Downside is it's only two players but otherwise may he exactly what you're looking for and very well made.
If you want something a bit different, check out "keep talking or everbody explodes".
Rivals of Aesther - like Super Smash Bros but with Steam Workshop support for player-made characters... TARS (interstellar) vs Ronald McDonald vs Obama anyone??
nidhogg - deserves to be in an arcade cabinet but honestly this one is ALWAYS a hit...just 2player though
Broforce - 80s action stars in 80s action movie multiplayer platformer
Ultimate Chicken Horse - competitively build a platformer level and then race to complete the level first, best with 4 players
TowerFall Ascension - 2-4 players, also deserves to be in an arcade cabinet
Screen Cheat - FPS made for the couch; think N64 Goldeneye or Quake, but all the players are invisible, so the only way to figure out where your opponents are is to look at their quadrants (screencheat)
Overcooked 2 - it's pretty kid-oriented on the surface, but it's a game where you must out-communicate the absolute chaos unfolding around you in order to succeed...such a good couch-multiplayer experience, but best for experienced gamers imho
Rocket League
Magicka
Regular Human Basketball - control giant basketball automatons by jumping inside them and operating the manual controls in a team v team. Minimum 4 players to really work well, supports up to 10 players shared screen
That should get you started! But oops that wasn't my casual coop list, more my "makes for memorable group experiences" list.
It Takes Two, Portal 2, Untitled Goose Game, Halo Master Chief Collection was like $10 recently, all come to mind as positive local coop experiences I've had.
> But there really aren’t that many “get your mates together” games any more.
It's especially fascinating against the lens of this return-to-office phase we're living through. I'm a big fan of WFH but hear me out: online gaming (physically by yourself) is somewhat analogous to work-from-home. It empowers you to optimize your entertainment, challenge, competition into narrower and narrower facets of the experience. And tribe.
But jibba jabba around the water cooler can be enjoyable with the right people, just like it can be on the couch with friends and fam with Mario Kart, NHL '97, or Jackbox. Or board games.
There's room in this zeitgeist for a breakout multiplayer hit that just doesn't feel good unless you're in person.
Playing games with friends has never been more popular. I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device.
But there's still plenty of couch co-op games. They're usually quite niche though and not your typical racing or shooting game.
> I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device.
> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox.
Xbox, as a console, already is in an existential crisis.
I think people have weird expectations about what the Steam Machine will cost. From what Valve has said so far (cheaper than if you build it yourself from parts), it will still cost significantly more than a PS5, and probably also more than a PS5 Pro, while having less performance than both. You will not beat the PS5 in terms of performance per dollar. Yes, games are more expensive on PS5, but most people don't work that way but just want to know whether they'll be able to play GTA6 on day one.
I don't think it's an existential crisis for console manufacturers, but it's certainly part of a shift in how we think about "consoles".
Microsoft has seen the writing on the wall for years now, and they've expanded their library to run across platforms. The Xbox as we knew it is effectively dead.
Sony and Nintendo are still holding on to the legacy concept, and trying to lure people into their walled garden, but even their hardware is essentially a general purpose PC that happens to be locked down in software.
So I suspect we'll see one last traditional "console" generation with the PS6 and whatever Nintendo makes next, and after that the concept of a single-purpose machine will fizzle out. Nintendo will probably be the last to give in, since they have the strongest first-party IPs to make that feasible, but eventually they'll follow suit as well.
It's not a console you can use as a PC, it's a PC you can use as a PC.
If you want a console you can use as a PC, the next Xbox is rumoured to be along those lines. It will run Windows so you can play Steam, GOG etc but will also run the existing Xbox library natively.
The 70% figure needs to be taken in context, tons of people have Steam installed on old computers that they use for old games. I currently have it installed on three devices, and yes two of them are worse specs than this. But I don't have any intention of upgrading them either, they are just old machines I have hanging around. They do the job if I'm travelling.
> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox.
Not really. An existential crisis to System76, Framework computer and all the other Linux computer companies.
> A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless.
No different to getting a regular PC but this time you can just buy a high performance state of the art GPU like the NVIDIA RTX 5090 and it runs all your games at 4K @ 120 FPS instead of 60.
> I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC.
Proton is the software that is doing the optimizations. However once you want to run a highly anticipated game like Battlefield 6 and your friends are playing it on their Windows PCs and consoles on day 1, the Steam Machine is left behind waiting for compatibility updates.
> Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users.
2020 specs in 2026 isn't really good for convincing 70% of Windows PC gamers or console players either.
The real test is when the next generation Xbox or Playstation arrives, will the Steam Machine outsell them?
> Given Valve gave money to a lot of open source maintainers , it’s also great for Linux.
We will see if that is enough to convince Steam players to run SteamOS instead of Windows or consoles. but so far it is totally underpowered and you might as well get a Windows PC + Nvidia RTX 5090 which runs all your games well including the highly anticipated ones.
This and machines with 5090s are a completely different market.
The Steam Machine is marketed primarily as something sitting under your TV. I don't have 5090 under my TV money, 99.9% of people don't. That's not the target demographic.
Yeah, learn with the computer! When I was growing we had an intellivision game console. My parents bought us the "keyboard component" that turned it into a computer. What a terrible computer it was. Turned out it was released because the company was being fined for advertising a computer add on and not delivering. You wanted to write games but no, worse than the timex Sinclair 1000...
I don’t think that’s true. The whole reason they’re producing PC ports is to sell the most profitable part (software) to those who to haven’t been giving them money.
Sony makes zero dollars off of the consoles, and while they do enjoy taking their PS Store royalties rather than giving it up to Steam, they also have a huge collection of first party studios that might even be a more important business.
And it’s not like Sony is giving their big console releases PC ports on day one, if you want to own them right away you have to buy a PlayStation.
You are mostly right about the broad strategy but a few of the claims are too absolute. Sony does make money on hardware later in the cycle even if margins are small. They also care about PC ports for more than just pure profit such as extending the IP footprint and keeping franchises visible between major releases. The part about delayed PC ports is completely correct. PlayStation is still the primary window and PC is the secondary revenue phase once the console market is saturated.
How could you believe that Sony would give up 30% of every Call of Duty, Madden, Fortnite sale for the measly PC sales of Slapper-Man 2 and God of Warm?
Every Steam Machine sold that plays Sony's exclusives is a genuine threat to Sony's control over the gaming market. The more I think about it, the more I believe Sony's games coming to PC is over since yesterday's announcement.
Sony’s current tactics is to publish all their releases on PC 6-12 months later. Doing this expands the potential player base and even makes some players to double dip and buy the game twice
If this Steam Machine really takes off and starts impacting Sony's ability to sell Playstation consoles, you bet your ass Sony will stop porting games to PC.
What's truly crazy is the VR headset is the same architecture as the Steam Machine. As in, it's a completely open Linux system you can wear on your face. They are literally telling the community to go nuts and hack it and install whatever you want on there.
If there's any time for people who believe in open systems and open software to step up and buy the hell out of something, this it it. It will be very interesting to see if the play works out our not.
The Frame announcement was certainly the one that blew my mind. A VR headset with an ARM CPU which runs a full fledged Linux operating system, can play x86 games via Proton, and can sideload Android APKs? What? Man, those guys have been busy.
All of this is true, but Valve is one of the best companies I know and for now, I’ll happily give them money.
It’s not about the fact that I’m actually going to use it. It’s about the fact that I want people to keep making things like this. It’s about the fact I want to reward them for not locking it down completely.
Ultimately every purchase you make is a vote in support of the company/org you are buying from. Why do you go to one grocery store vs another? One hairdresser vs another?
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the blog and/or comment, but if I don't need groceries, and can list 20+ reasons why I don't need groceries, I'm not going to get groceries anyway just because I like the grocery store very very much.
There's also another way to interpret that. For me for example, I have the same PC for 5 years now, and before that I had the same one for 10 years. Basically, I run it till I really really can't. I can afford replacements more than once every 10 years, but I don't buy it simply cos it's not necessary. But in this situation if I had a similar fondness for valve, I might go ahead and buy it and cut short my not-for-affordability-reasons wait.
I know a lot of people that behave this way with phone purchases.
You wouldn't like Valve so much if you explicitly saw the 30% Steam tax, I mean fee, declared every time you bought a PC game on Steam. Imagine if Microsoft did that. +30% for every Windows software. Like iOS. Then Steam games would be +60% rather than +30%.
It's not really a tax though. Other platforms offer a lower percentage (Epic: 0% up to 1000000 copies sold and 12% above) and yet the prices on Epic aren't cheaper than on steam.
If the final price doesn't change based on the storefront cut, then as a consumer, I don't care.
That's still higher than what seems reasonable for a simple store front, but they aren't as bad as Valve or Apple.
Note that Valve is a relatively small company with only a few hundred employees, but with one of the most extreme revenue-per-employee ratios in the world, estimated at $19 million per employee:
That's orders of magnitude higher than companies like Apple, Elsevier or Nintendo. Steam is basically free money for Valve. Valve is extracting huge rents (around 6.5 billion yearly revenue) for negligible expenses (only 79 people working on Steam).
Based on what? Your arbitrary standards. I still don't understand what's wrong with 30% for everything Steam provides as a platform. It's perfectly acceptable. It's not making indie developers poorer. It helping to ensure Valve can focus on the things that matter to them and do things like invest in Steam Input, Proton, SteamOS, and Steam Deck/Machine/Controller/Frame/etc. And it's still significantly better than the times when your only option was brick and mortar, where you maybe got 10-30% as the developer.
Every other digital storefront does far less and still takes 15-30%. Why is Valve the big boogey man and everybody else is free to charge whatever they want on developers while doing fuck all for anybody but themselves?
> I still don't understand what's wrong with 30% for everything Steam provides as a platform. It's perfectly acceptable. It's not making indie developers poorer.
Of course it makes them poorer if a big chunk of what you pay for their games goes to Valve.
> It helping to ensure Valve can focus on the things that matter to them and do things like invest
But they basically aren't doing that. If a company has an extreme revenue-to-expense ratio, it means they are hardly investing any of their revenue. They only have a few hundred employees while making around 6.5 billion per year.
> Every other digital storefront does far less and still takes 15-30%. Why is Valve the big boogey man
Well, Microsoft seems to do 12-15% in the Microsoft Store. And I fully agree Apple is significantly worse than Valve with iOS, because there is no way to circumvent the 30% fee in iOS; indeed, it wouldn't even be possible to offer a software like Steam on iOS. (But it should also be noted that Apple has a much lower revenue-per-employee ratio than Valve, indicating that they reinvest a lot more of their revenue.)
There's a reason everyone else who comes to take on this "market inefficiency" fails. Amazon threw billions at it. So did Google. So has Epic. And Microsoft.
None of them dethroned steam, so 30% is still the cost to access the steam user base.
If tens of billions can't overcome this "inefficiency" then it sure seems like there might be more to the story than economics 101.
The fact is that Steam has an incredibly loyal _userbase_ and you won't convince them to leave unless steam betrays their trust, which they haven't.
The trust in any competitor is nearly 0 compared with Steam which has been a platform people have loved and used for over a decade now with basically 0 issues. No corporate missteps.
Arguably the biggest controversy is the latest way they made CS2 loot boxes less valuable, popping the insane bubble in the skins market. That's still ultimately good for the average gamer and I expect they'll come out smelling like roses.
> There's a reason everyone else who comes to take on this "market inefficiency" fails.
Yes, network effects, as discussed in the Wikipedia article linked above. It's the reason why Facebook or Twitter are so hard to replace, or eBay, or Amazon. In these cases larger platforms benefit from the fact that everyone else is already there, which makes switching hard. That doesn't mean they are inherently better though. They can even be significantly worse than alternatives, apart from network effects.
Part of the reason why these companies are still around and strong is because they continue to innovate. Facebook spun up Instagram for younger folk, Amazon has some of the best shipping/warehousing/distribution in the world. eBay has slowly become less relevant for local p2p purchase because its market share got eaten up by Facebook Marketplace....
Twitter had a big chunk of its userbase eaten up by Threads, hey I'm seeing a pattern here?
Microsoft takes 30%, Sony takes 30% so that argument is out of the window.
Let's break down what you actually get for that 30% with Microsoft/Sony
- $120/yr (xbox) or $80/yr (ps) subscription fee
- Price subsidized console
- Friends system, voice chat/messages
- Online store/publishing regional pricing and associated locks
- Store for MTX
- Cloud based game saves
- Trophies/achivements and other player related goal setting
- CDN to distribute your game
- Remote play e.g. using your console to stream to your PC/Phone
- First class controller support
Steam gives you all of the above with literally 0 cost to the consumer aside from purchasing your game. The fact that anyone even pretends like this is a valid argument is a joke.
There are only a few hundred people working at Valve, with 79 working on Steam, but they are making 6.5 billion USD yearly. That's extreme. One of the highest revenue per employee ratios in the world. They are spending almost nothing. The 30% are almost pure profit.
Since PC is an open platform, the proper comparison would be other PC store fronts which are substantially cheaper than Steam. Unfortunately there is no incentive for users to switch, as Valve apparently contractually forbids games to be sold at a lower price outside Steam.
"Valve apparently contractually forbids games to be sold at a lower price outside Steam." This quote is based on one email from a valve employee circa 2017.
Furthermore, is it not Valves right to say if you wish to offer the same product at a lower price, we reserve the right not to sell your product anymore. Keep in mind in most cases when a game is not freely purchased through steam anymore you can still download the game from the CDN, you can also still use all of the online features for the game. You just cannot purchase a new copy
I really don't understand why price parity requirement is a bad thing. If you want to take a bigger slice of the pie you can eat up the infrastructure costs yourself or take your business elsewhere, EOS, Xbox, PlayStation store ect
"There are only a few hundred people working at Valve, with 79 working on Steam, but they are making 6.5 billion USD yearly. That's extreme. One of the highest revenues per employee ratios in the world. They are spending almost nothing. The 30% are almost pure profit."
You are absolutely right. that is far too much money and to which I simply ask the question why no other serious competition? Companies have poured millions into this and always miss the first stop gap of consumer rights first meaning any attempt they have to eat away at the market share fails so hard its actually embarrassing. Anyone arguing against the current system is just arguing against capitalism.
Out of all the companies in the gamer space hardware/software Valve are the only one who actually care for their customers and have regularly extended rights that go well beyond the legal minimum requirement, this is just a fraction of a reason why they have been and will continue to be first class in the gaming space
I don’t care about the Steam tax. Steam is one of the few storefronts that actually show me what I want. That give me the ability to download any game I downloaded 20 years ago when I first installed it. They went through a few dozen iterations of nonsense social stuff, but through that all the core functionality just kept working.
I hate the iOS store because it’s full of ad-riddled slop. Steam isn’t remotely close to that. If I find a game on there, even if it’s bad, someone clearly spent time and love making it.
there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of for-profit companies that are not “evil” - making money is not evil endeavor, you provide goods and services in exchange for money :)
I've been using a somewhat low-spec PC to play games and for general desktop usage. Finding stuff in this form factor, that you can guarantee will be well put together and worth the money is a rarity.
Highly likely this could replace my desktop, as I don't need something much more powerful, just with more modern hardware. I don't do much AAA gaming and nearly game in my Steam library would run on this just fine. My regular daily computing needs can reasonably be satisfied with the compute power of a Raspberry Pi. I can swap flatpak based immutable SteamOS with plain Arch without losing the advantages (i.e. custom hardware settings integration) that one might sacrifice doing so on the Steam Deck.
This is going to be a no-brainer for my next upgrade.
> I don't do much AAA gaming and nearly game in my Steam library would run on this just fine.
I think that this is the issue with most people these days... The combination of work, seen it all, and frankly, often disappointing AAA games.
The time spend is often on more smaller studios that do something creative, and those are often not triple A graphical monsters anyway.
> This is going to be a no-brainer for my next upgrade.
Really depends on the price... Do not forget that its going to be released in 2026... At that time we get new Zen 6 CPUs (remember, this Steam Deck is Zen4), what will drive the prices of the old Zen4 down even more. Same with new GPUs.
Like, the Steam deck was incredible pricing for the hardware you got when released and sure, its still a good value for a handheld console, but from a hardware point of view, its really old now (zen2 cores).
It's the same as the steam deck: I don't enjoy video games anymore, I've actually never really enjoyed gaming except for a handful of titles. But I'll be damned, I love that Valve is bringing gaming to Linux and I'll buy the hardware just to support the cause. The people in my life that have been using the "I need Windows for my games" reason (or excuse ;)) to not switch to Linux are now slowly but surely leaving Windows!
Good point, I just made a donation to the wine team. I still think buying Steam hardware is a good way to signal to the market that I want to see more of this.
Gabe buying a yacht makes the company evil or something? What's your point?
Valve has single-handedly massively contributed to Linux gaming. Buying their products is obviously beneficial to Linux gaming as a whole. It's in their best interest to continue their trend of supporting and improving Linux gaming.
I think it's important to note that it's not just gaming, but the improvements have cascaded over to regular desktop users as well: I'm taking about improvements in the kernel (for AMD CPUs mainly), improvements in the graphics stack (Mesa, amdgpu drivers), improvements in KDE and of course, improvements to the Wine project in general (which goes beyond gaming). Anyone who's been closely following the FOSS scene can see how the progress in these projects have exploded exponentially over the past 3-4 years, thanks to Valve.
And with the most recent announcements, we can expect to see a similar sort of growth in the FEX emulator and general ARM support for various projects, which is all every exciting even as a non-gamer.
I don't understand the "You can’t buy this without buying the Steam Controller." bit. If you want one, great, if not, it's no more necessary than with any other PC.
I've been gaming for ~40 years without ever touching a controller, why would I start now?
> without ever touching a controller, why would I start now?
I feel similar, but for us there's also no point to get a Steam Machine. Playing games while sitting on a living room couch in front of a TV with mouse and keyboard is not comfortable at all.
Using mouse and keyboard it is better to play games at a proper desk with an office chair and I already have such a PC.
I agree that I wouldn't get it in addition to a desktop PC (for one thing, I haven't owned a TV in 20+ years so couch gaming isn't a thing for me) but when the time comes to replace my current box I might well consider whatever Steam is offering at the time. Just because it's likely to be nicely designed, thoughtfully specced and decently supported.
Memory (both main and VRAM) might be a bit on the weak side for some non-gaming workloads though. I hope we'll see those bump up once the current supply squeeze is over.
Yeah that's true. But I suppose you could just as well buy any other windows/linux PC. (I did so after finally ditching the playing-games-in-bootcamp-on-an-imac life.) I realize the same could be said about the "a box under the living room tv" use case, but I feel like to a lesser degree?
This is also what i do not understand about the price structure. Valve states that they want to sell it at PC prices, and not console prices. But then sells it like a Console, with the console bits.
Its like there is a identify crisis even at Valve. Why can this not be a streaming machine for people who want to remote game. Why do you need a controller, if maybe you have a steam deck and stream PC games from the Steam PC > Deck...
What if you just want to use this as a cheap dedicated gaming PC with a monitor and keyboard/mouse.
I feel like there is a identify crisis with the product. Like the started out making a console, but then realized that nothing prevents people from using this as a cheap PC, if Valve puts the price too low. So you have this retraction on the pricing.
I absolutely get (and happily used) joysticks, but if a game needs a joystick I'll use a joystick, not a controller in the modern console sense. I'm sure those are good for something, but it's not something I've ever played.
I am kind having a similar dilemma as the author of the blog post. Gabe Cube is the least interesting announcement that Valve did for me if I look at an objective level since I just built a PC that runs Jovian-NixOS (basically SteamOS, but running with NixOS as a base). My PC is way more powerful than the Gabe Cube too (at least in GPU, a Radeon 9070), and it is already connect to my TV since SteamOS makes this easy even if you're running the software in a unsupported configuration like I do.
But the Gabe Cube just lives rent free in my head. It looks sleek. I know that the software experience is going to be top-notch since I have a Steam Deck. I know that it is only going to get better with time (when the Steam Deck was released I barely touched it since lots of things didn't work well, but this year the Steam Deck is by far my most played machine).
Also I am finding gaming fun again since on Steam I can play lots of good and cheap games, since they're almost always on sale and there are lots of indie games that never get released in console.
I want to sell all my other consoles and just invest in the Steam ecosystem, especially nowadays that almost all games will eventually be multi-platform (even the ones from Xbox and PlayStation). It is not like I like to play lots of AAA games anyway, and at least the ones I am interested are already available or will be available in PC eventually (like Final Fantasy VII Remake, MGS3: Remake, etc). I also don't care about online multiplayer for the lack of kernel anti-cheat on SteamOS/Linux to be a problem.
I am seriously considering buying another TV (we only have one in our home right now) just to justify buying a Gabe Cube.
I greatly enjoy the single-purpose aspect of consoles: no upgrades, no other software to manage, etc.
So a single-purpose PC-based console basically made for Steam? That sounds great to me. I don't even have a 4K TV so the performance might be just what I need.
Back during Covid I bought a PC tower just to play PC games. Later I also bought a PlayStation because the couch experience is better. If the steam machine was available I’d definitely opt for that instead of both.
If steam continues the way it is, it will be hard for me to justify having a gaming PC and a console instead of just one machine.
Yeah
I think what they'll miss is a small tool to stream your games to your TV (well maybe it's already possible ?) because the drawback of having just 1 machine as PC and console is that it can't be both at your desk and in next to your TV
I've fixed that with a long HDMI cable and wireless controller. It works great.
The main issue which has kept me at the desk for games, however, is that I'm way too used to keyboard & mouse and the controller experience is frustrating.
There's a Steam app on my Samsung smart TV that I think can do this, with a USB-controller connected to a USB-port on the TV. Haven't tried it though.
But I think the best way to do it is to have a cheap PC (or maybe an Android TV device or something?) connected to your TV. You can stream games to it from your gaming PC in the other room: https://store.steampowered.com/remoteplay
Note that there’s no secret sauce regarding Steam Machines. Once you put Bazzite, ChimeraOS or Jovian Nix on your PC, it can provide a great couch experience.
The secret sauce for me is that it is a complete out of box experience. You'll boot it and sign into steam and that's it. Like, sure you can get little PCs off Amazon or build your own micro-atx system with more performance. But I just wanna buy something and have it done for me. I want to buy a system that developers know is kind of a "base" spec.
If the Steam Machine becomes the base configuration that most games start targeting, then I think everyone will benefit from it.
I expect that steam machine will have better controller support. I found wireless controller support on Windows (both for ps4 and Xbox controllers) seriously lacking.
> In two years, you’ll upgrade your M1 to an M4+: there’s the power upgrade.
Only to play almost nothing or very badly if not supported natively. And no devs won't support mac games there is no incentive. Emulation is subpar compared to Proton on Linux, Apple people should really start stop thinking macbooks can do modern gaming, excepts for a couple of Capcom portings that were paid by apple to have them and some retro gaming
Supporting games on Mac is a huge hassle for developers for several reasons.
It is painfully annoying to compile any MacOS application without actually having a machine with Xcode installed. The server solutions you can get a hold of are bad because apple will not sell any rack mounted servers to the public and the machines they do sell are restricted to a max of two instances of OSX virtualized.
Your best bet is to rent a Mac server from one of these providers who just hoarde mac minis and throw them in custom datacenter racks
I'm also one of those people who does everything on my mac laptop, but hits a kvm switch to jump onto a PC to play games at night (when I have time, which I don't). At this point I've stopped pretending that I want a PC that I can upgrade and swap out parts. I just want a little box that doesn't make any noise and works as is. Framework desktop and now this steam machine look like good options. I'm a bit disappointed at the 8gb gpu though.
Same here. I like the end result of having a gaming/ML PC with all the specs that I chose out but assembling PCs is not a hobby that I enjoy, and gaming seems to be partying ways with ML anyways. The new world might well end up being DGX for ML, and Steam machine for games.
I see no evidence for this, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. Notably, after the initially failed Steam Machines, we now have Steam Deck, Steam Machine Mark II, Steam Frame, Steam Controller Mark II, etc.
And critically, Valve seems to be learning, iterating, and the Steam Deck and Steam Controller Mark II are both much more enjoyable to use than the first Steam Controller.
From their perspective, Valve are otherwise dependent on Microsoft or Apple who see them as competition to squeeze out. Success of the Steam hardware platforms is their only way to change that situation. Therefore all evidence points to Valve continuing to iterate until they find success. They are a private company, so they can afford to do so indefinitely without worrying about pissing off a board or investors.
Eh... again, Valve being a private company plays a role here. Whoever succeeds Gabe will likely be chosen by Gabe, not some board or activist investor looking to maximize short term profit. There is much more freedom in private orgs to make long term strategic decisions.
The 10 years Valve took between Steam machines was invested (wisely, I think) in Linux infrastructure like Wayland, Wine/Proton, GPU and audio drivers, etc. None of which Valve will have to repeat.
To make my point, there was only 1.5 years between the release of the Steam Deck, and Steam Deck OLED, and that involved a new silicon tapeout.
I think it all depends on what their mission is, what bits of the larger ecosystem does valve care about or not care about, what do they want to defend or destroy. I'm tempted to say "defending the store is existential for them" but the scale of it likely gives them an extremely big comfort zone. Whatever OS the users have isn't going to affect whether they can do commerce through them unless MS does something unhinged like getting rid of win32, or as the fear around win8 that they'd centralize all windows software through their channels.
If their mission is SteamOS, then I'm tempted to say they need to expand their area of influence beyond what they're doing with linux now which seems to be strictly game related, which likely involves whittling down the major or minor reasons people don't use desktop linux (and all the projects that comprise it) in general, not just their distro. So long as they're supporting (in one way or another) the majority of windows games in a foreign environment and the richness that mods can bring they could do with improving the experience of that relative to windows and not just the happy path of what happens if the base game launches. And that's before the enigma of anti-cheat. Then find some way to reap the rewards, if any, for doing that greatly expanded workload or investment.
Yeah, I could make a similar post for similar reasons. I already have a bunch of mini-PCs I collect like Raspberry Pis. I already have a mITX build with Bazzite installed on it that I would use over a Steam Machine because it's faster. And like OP, I'd probably get anyways. Assuming price is ~800$ (with controller)
SteamCube would have honestly been such a cool name.
My current PC has a Ryzen 7 5800X and an Intel Arc B580 and I don't really have the need for a device to connect to a TV (which I also don't have), but I can definitely see the appeal to something that is both okay at games, as well as has hardware that the software works really well with, with minimal amounts of driver weirdness. Not everyone views building or buying PC as non-intimidating, especially because of how many different parts of different specs and vendors are there.
I ended up getting a MacBook (M1 Air) and an iPhone (SE 2022) for some work stuff a while back, and while my use cases of those particular devices are a bit limited, I appreciate how most of the computing and updates out of the box... just work (at least for now, in contrast I got a bit unlucky with Windows updates on my main PC so I had to mess around with where the disk partitions are, otherwise it refused to boot after one update, no idea what's up with that).
Plus maybe it'll push developers in the direction of optimize their games a bit more (or at least add more performance oriented presets).
I just hope that they won't pull an Intel Core Ultra with the pricing, which will probably make or break the Steam Machine as something that'd see widespread usage.
I have been trying for a long time to find a way to play my PC games from my couch without dragging my desktop into the living room.
Steam Link works okay but is still noticeable for some games. Docking a Steam Deck wasn’t powerful enough. Running a long HDMI cable isn’t feasible in my current living space. So I’m very intrigued to have this lower powered cube sit under my TV for when I just want to do some couch co-op or play something more casual to wind down at night.
Moonlight/Sunshine is a great steam link alternative if you have a tv box (like an apple tv or similar) that has the Moonlight app available. I'm able to run both steam and non steam games pretty well.
I'm looking for it as a general development machine, sometimes I do stuff that requires GPUs so if they can get a competitive price wrt. building a custom PC then I'm all in for the convenient form factor!
The steam machine as they’re marketing it doesn’t have enough RAM to be a proper development box once you start running IDEs, language servers and debuggers. They’d need to release a 64 or 128 gig sku, unless RAM is easily upgradable.
"Proper" is very subjective here. My entire workflow for developing 3D engines is covered a couple of times over with the announced Steam Machine specs. In fact, even when I was working in web backend development it would've covered it as a dedicated development machine and that was with some pretty pathological dev setups, language servers that ate up way too much memory, etc..
> With The Steam Machine, you might be able to finally properly run DOOM Eternal and all of the Assassin’s Creed games. That you don’t like playing.
In my experience, relation of game's hardware requirements to the amount of fun it provides is inversely proportional. Best games of all time (opinionated, of course) run well on integrated graphics.
I was kind of annoyed at the blog post for being kind of pointless until the last line, which cracked me up.
The Steam Machine is surely meant to be somewhere between mainstream and niche. It’s going to be cheap enough to be a pretty good deal for what it is, but I think those who are already PC builders (at least, those who aren’t unusually high-income and will toss money at a novelty) might not jump on it.
The device does offer some unique features you can’t get on the PC market like HDMI-CEC, which will make it a great living room box.
Perhaps it’s even being somewhat underrated as a PC on your desk type of solution. Perhaps the type of person who wants a small form factor plug and play solution at their desk and isn’t a small form factor expert would want it. The only barrier there is that SteamOS doesn’t bring you to desktop mode instantly, but in that case the user could install their own OS like Bazzite or Windows.
I'm on the fence for SM bc of 8GB GPU RAM, but I just enjoy the tsunami of chinese followups after it, so guess I just have to buy one SM to make the wave work.
>In two years, you’ll upgrade your M1 to an M4+: there’s the power upgrade.
>If CrossOver is struggling to run that particular game you so badly want to play, it’ll be buttery smooth in a few years. You’re going to do the laptop upgrade anyway regardless of the Steam Machine.
The only times I've heard the fan come on on my M4 were with games like Kerbal Space Program and Cities Skylines. Having tried both of them on a variety of MBPs over the years (both Intel and Apple Silicon) I'm not convinced they'll ever run well - in fact they both play worse on my M4. Newer games like CP2077 and No Man's Sky do put in a good showing but they've been optimized for Metal.
I don't need any of the 3 announced Steam hardware products, I already have a decent gaming PC running Steam on Ubuntu, a VR headset (Meta Quest 3, that I would not have bought had I known earlier, though it works wonders streaming PCVR games through ALVR+SteamVR) and a classic Steam controller that is more reliable that my Xbox One one on BLE.
But I do benefit from the announcement, because this means Valve will continue investing in the GNU/Linux ecosystem, and this will net more Linux players, which in turn means better software overall. Yay!
I'm a Nintendo fanboy. Untold thousands from my wallet to their pockets over the last 30 years. NES on up, we've had every console except the virtual boy and specific iterations of mobile consoles (e.g switch but not switch lite). 512gb sd in the switch to fit all the games I bought on it. My house has 5 3DSs in it, which I maintain to this day is the best console ever made.
Sadly though I'll not spend another dollar on a Nintendo product for the rest of my life. Their aggressive targeting of emulation developers and their litigiousness in general I believe is harmful to the videogame industry.
Nintendo imo makes some of the best games ever made, but that's ok, there's still lots of other really good ones that run on my steam deck or my PC, and I can do whatever I want with the save files for those games, play them on my own terms.
The Steam Machine is "just" a normal Linux PC, with good integration.
The point is the target demographics. And, just like the Steam Deck, this is not something for power users. Most people on here know how to build a PC and install Linux with KDE on it, which is the same experience you would get with a Steam Machine.
Valve is selling this to an audience of gamers, specifically those who want an easy gaming experience on low end hardware. This is the same demographic which Sony and Microsoft are selling to.
Their audience is Steam users primarily. There are millions of them and all they need to do is market it on Steam. And as Valve had said (and shown with their hardware survey), the vast majority of users have shitty PC's. People keep mentioning in these comments "oh who is this for? I just built a gaming PC with an RX 9070". Good for you. Then you don't need it. However, there are millions of Steam users who do not have a 9070.
Which means that you can "target" all that you want, if you don't have the dozens of millions of USD of advertising budget that your competitors have, you don't really stand a chance against the incumbents.
Kudos to the author. I also will not buy a steam Box. But i appreciate the effect it will have on gaming and Linux. I use Mint and use steam to play my games just fine. For some games it is a little bit shaky. Game company’s now have a incentive to make gaming just feel right on a Linux machine much more than like the switch deck. Just my thinking of course
I built myself a new gaming desktop and set up my old one next to our TV, telling myself I'd get it all situated with controllers and my large library of split screen games. We have a Shield TV for most streaming, so the desktop is pretty much only used for two things:
My wife watching Chinese shows on random websites and watching movies remotely with friends over SyncLounge[0].
So while the Steam Machine is intriguing, I really don't have a good reason to buy one. That being said, I like the idea of supporting this kind of hardware development.
If I purchase one it is effectively a console-killer for the big screen. The fact that the PS5 is now in the twilight phase is making me consider it. The era of exclusives is almost over as basically everything I want to play on PS5 is also available on PC.
At the same time I don't need a living room machine to be a full-fledged desktop. Nor is that desirable with kids.
I don't have much reasons to buy one either, besides "It'll be fun to thinker with" and "I want to support any company trying to make Linux go mainstream, because ultimately that'll make my desktop experience better". But those two feel more than enough, and I'm happy to open my wallet for them.
My only problem is that the hardware looks downright antiquated compared to the near-silent and power efficient setup offering world leading single-core performance that you get with a Mac Mini.
Especially when both run ARM so you have a apple(s) to apples comparison.
I still hope they succeed. Steam is the one good monopolists that will probably only go full evil when Gabe dies.
My dream would be Steam OS on hardware that can rival apple silicone.
I'm doing a Needs-only-November - Non to 'wants'. But this was top of my list of 2026 'wants'.
Your list has hopefully saved me ~300eur thanks. And to add to your list, hopefully it comes non-upgradable, choca full of adverts, forced AI, spyware/root-kit/anti-cheat, mandatory age verified account requirements, and all the other modern essentials to make me never ever want one.
I too won't be getting one, especially since I already have enough power at my desk.
But I love how amazing of an idea it is. A form factor and ease-of-setup of a console that brings all the best features of PC gaming (inter-generational compatibility, free multiplayer...) into the living room. And unlike with the original Steam Machine, the market is ready this time.
I was going through the list, nodding as I read all the reasons, agreeing with them all. But also thinking each time I’ll get one anyway. I guess I agree with the last sentence of the post haha. If anything, I’ll justify this by saying I want to choose with my money and encourage this further. But that’s really just to give me good conscience.
Fair reasons. I won't be getting one, because the Steam Deck is enough for me.
> It’s Steam, not Good Old Games.
Sure it can run GOG games but the Machine is primarily designed to run Steam. You avoid purchasing from Steam like the plague, yet you’re willing to buy a Machine dedicated to it? Are you crazy?
I prioritise getting games on GOG, and the Steam Deck experience with it is good.
I use Heroic Launcher to install them, and Steam mode to play it.
> You don’t have time to fiddle with configuration. Button and trackpad mappings to get the controls just right enough to play strategy games designed to be played with keyboard and mouse will only leave you frustrated.
+1. I don't bother with configuration. If a game only supports keyboard and mouse I just play it when docked.
Why can't i just shake the feeling that Steam Machines will Valve's gateway to release Half-Life 3 as a Steam Machine title exclusive? Furthermore, HL will only be Linux exclusive, at least for the first few months to put pressure on Sony, MS and Nintendo and the GTA6 launch.
Why it feels like "this year will be the year of Linux desktop" didn't sound absurd enough for you so you went and upgraded the idea to "HL3 will be a Linux exclusive."
I just don't see that happening, aren't linux users only like 5% of the user base? Releasing their most anticipated title only for the minority would make them lose out on a hefty amount of money. The more realistic option I see is that they offer some exclusive content (add-on or cosmetics) for SteamOS users.
I don't need it either. I want it so I'm going to get it. I also don't need the controller and the VR headset. But again, I am going to get it. I am the master of my life. Whatever I say goes. I am getting all 3. But I don't need them. No, no no.
It ultimately comes down to the price. If it’s low enough, I’ll get Steam machine as a living room indie box and for streaming from my main desktop. I would feel bad for overpaying for 8 gigs of VRAM in 2026.
I don't really need one either, but I'll buy it anyway, mostly because I want to support vendors who make hacker-friendly hardware and software. For that reason alone, Valve gets my money.
Most modern "AAA" games are meant to hook you up. It's an addictive cycle, most games are also only on steam which means steam owns you. It has profiled you, your voice chats, your friends, your game habits, etc. If you'd think for even a minute, you'd realize what a shitshow modern gaming is. It's nothing but a masqueraded attempt for mass surveillance from steam and other major game stores
To me it seems you are conflicting multiplayer games with single player games.
The two have very different business incentives.
And Steam has my gaming habits because I want it to have them: it provides good tips in what to buy.
Steam has none of my voice chats and the last 260 hours I played videogames, it doesn't think I even logged in.
My favorite game of the year barely shows up on my profile page because I use it through a mod.
I agree on multiplayer games, but that's due to the business, single player games don't have that incentive.
And Steam is full of beautiful work of arts in the indie game space
AFAIK one Steam Controller is included in the purchase of a Steam Machine already. Also, I find it unlikely that the Steam Machine is not going to work with other controllers, since the SteamOS works with pretty much any controller out there (Xbox, PS4/PS5, Switch, 8-bit Do, you name it).
Not sure what the author meant here. Maybe they're referring for the fact that you can't purchase a cheaper version of Steam Machine without the Steam Controller.
Funnily Valve doesn’t need it either to some extent. It’s almost like a pet project. They won’t sell it retail, no ads, so certainly won’t even hurt the sales of Switch 2 and PS5. Mind you the former just sold more than 10m units in less than 6 months.
Secondly Valve makes disgusting amount of money from the lootboxes and the unregulated underage gambling market (estimated billions) which are almost a 0 effort system. Running an API and releasing a new lootbox every 2nd month or so are peanuts compared to the development, manifacturing, and distribution of the Steam Machine
Tail risk for valve is they get locked out of the windows ecosystem via the App Store or some other trusted computing shenanigans. Steam hardware running windows games on an open OS mitigates this.
all that matters is price. if it's a bang-for-your-buck (similar to the steamdeck) then i'm in. I don't have a PC in my current living space and it takes up as much space as my laptop, if not less.
I'm considering moving my desktop to SteamOS, not just for gaming (web browsing, streaming from my jellyfin server). I have a laptop for embedded programming (and anything I do that needs serious compute I run on a cloud VM), I have dedicated hardware for Home Assistant.
I want to quit windows, but I'm always disappointed by running Linux that isn't backed by a company. I think Valve might be one of the companies I trust the most.
I kinda wonder if someone will start selling productivity tools on steam...
Yes. Because if unrelated industries decide to give up then a theoretical collapse becomes an unavoidable economic collapse. And history has proven that war usually follows economic collapses.
So literally the best thing Valve could do here is carry on like usual.
Notice that I'm not discussing economic collapse, I'm mentioning the environment and international relationships (e.g. the apparent return from the rule of international right we've had since WW2, however partially and imperfectly, to the rule of international anarchy we've seen in Europe since the birth of feodalism).
Notice that I'm also not criticizing Valve. They're doing what they feel is best for their business.
What I'm disagreeing with is enthusiasm for buying yet another gaming rig in the above circumstances.
> Notice that I'm not discussing economic collapse, I'm mentioning the environment and international relationships
Noice how I also discussed international relationships. I didn’t miss your point.
> Notice that I'm also not criticizing Valve. They're doing what they feel is best for their business. What I'm disagreeing with is enthusiasm for buying yet another gaming rig in the above circumstances.
OK, but do you expect Valve to do anything about first two problems you have mentioned? (OK, saying “our next console will be a bunch of refurbished PCs we have sourced from local junkyard” would be a flex)
Both the CPU and GPU Valve chose for the Steam Machine are cut down ("binned") versions of silicon AMD likely had lying around. The CPU is a laptop part which didn't sell in huge volume and has had the GPU fused off. The GPU has several CUs disabled compared to top-of-the-line. This indicates to me that Valve is using silicon which AMD either couldn't use otherwise, or couldn't sell for top price.
You can see the alternative with PS5 and Xbox, where AMD designed and produced large bespoke custom chips. Versions of these chips which don't fully pass QA could have a few defective cores or CUs fused off and used elsewhere, but we don't see that outside of some very niche Chinese motherboards.
Valve's approach instead allows them to re-use standard PC components which just didn't quite meet muster.
So in effect, "our next console will be a bunch of refurbished PCs we have sourced from local junkyard" is exactly what Valve did here.
But the OP didn't discuss "Should Valve do something about the sorry state of the world", it discussed whether we individually should buy a Steam Machine.
You don't "need" most of what you own, conditioned upon mere survival. Liberal democracy allows people to improve their lives and pursue what makes them happy.
Degrowth as a cure is worse than what it is purported to treat. Itwould hurt people. Developing countries improve their standard of living by exporting stuff to us, by consuming resources, etc. The poorest countries trade the least and its not an enviable lifestyle.
We are not headed for collapse by any metric. Fuel use in China has plateaued despite growing energy demand, owing to rapid solar scaling. Matter of time before we catch up. IPCC says climate will suck and be expensive, not apocalyptic. And finally, global population growth is projected to completely stall. The fertility rate is already stagnant in the 1st world. Innovation also improves efficiency, allowing us to build with less energy and resources over time.
We grow only BC of immigration, and immigrants are not coming to consume less, but to consume more.
I'm not going to discuss the details, because we obviously draw different conclusions from the same numbers. For me, the answer is going to be "I'm not going to buy a Steam Machine, not because it's a bad tech, but because it doesn't make my life better, and it uses resources that I'm not sure we can afford."
me too, i just hope the pricing is reasonable. the big draw for me is a reliable, small unit that i can relegate gaming to, without building my own PC.
Fully agree with the sentiments here in terms of "you might not need this", and for many of us the Steam Machine is not really marketed toward us in particular. I think it's not marketed away from us, though.
For me, I am considering it, depending on the price. I already have a small form factor PC that I run Bazzite on in the living room. The problem? There's some kind of hardware issue. Unfortunately, it might be the Intel CPU. It results in sporadic issues including periods of time where memory errors spike like crazy. I love the PC ecosystem for what it is, but here's the problem: without redundant parts, I can't reasonably isolate the problem to figure out what to RMA. It's not abundantly clear, because the problem is sporadic. I'd need to replace parts one-by-one. So I've just been working around it for now.
But the Steam Machine is sold as a single unit, and it already runs the KDE desktop that I'm used to using on my TV. (It's better than you'd expect, with a couple of tweaks, though I hope the SteamOS version that ships with the Steam Machine moves to a Wayland session as my TV supports HDR.) If I have a problem with the hardware, I can send it back to Valve. Even better, I kind of actually trust Valve.
So for me it totally depends on price point. I don't game all that much on TV, but I do want a box connected to my TV that can game. Plus, bonus points if it's able to achieve a better idle power usage than my current small form factor build. Plus, even better, the device ships with native HDMI CEC support, which is fairly rare on PC graphics cards, requiring very frustrating workarounds. This is clearly a potential killer option for people who want a living room PC setup for their TV.
(Aside: if you are wondering what the experience with using a living room PC with KDE is like, it's not too bad. You have to crank up the scale factor a bit, but with a Bluetooth keyboard and touchpad device, it's pretty easy to use. There's no easy way to support receiving Chromecasts, though, though there is Shanocast, but it's a bit sketchy. Funny enough, I believe Apple's AirPlay is less locked down and you can use UxPlay to receive AirPlay requests. I mostly just use Librewolf with some quality of life extensions like YouTube Shorts Block and Sponsorblock and the like. It is a little clunky but my previous weapon of choice was Android TV and it has been horrifically enshittified, so those devices are basically ewaste now.)
If they manage an under $800 price point and deliver on performance, thermals and noise, you simply won't be able to beat this thing in almost any dimension buying parts new to make a build yourself. It is significantly smaller than anything you can build, and it theoretically packs significant power per inch in the sub-$1000 price point. As long as you don't mind paying Valve, I absolutely think this is a potential killer deal for many use cases that will involve barely ever actually using Steam.
(But, despite the end of this article, it is definitely worth some consideration whether you really need one. Even if you ultimately decide you want it anyways :P)
When I first saw the Arduino I didn't see the point - after all there were boards that cost less, did more, and the Arduino IDE seemed very barebones compared to what you could do with GCC and a custom toolchain.
Then eventually I saw how much community support, ready made hardware emerged around it, to the point that after a while, not going the Arduino route was a decision you needed to justify heavily.
Same thing with the Raspberry Pi - there are commercial devices now running or more or less stock Pi hardware with some accomodations - the power of the community is just too large - you can either spend an insane amount of time getting things working on your custom SBC, or get something well-supported for free.
I hope that the same thing will happen with the Steam Machine - the pull of the community will result in a well-supported 'default' device where people (and Valve) will put in the effort to create a comparable desktop experience to the commercial OSes.
Valve already helped immensely with Wayland - it's crazy to think that the project was stared cca. 2008, and today there's still arguments to be made it's not mature yet - by investing the necessary energy to make sure games run well, the drivers are optimized, and there's a high-quality end-user library (wlroots) for writing compositors has been the push that Wayland needed.
> a comparable desktop experience to the commercial OSes
Isn't it alteady comparable? My Linux desktop has almost the same game compatibility that Windows has, and none of the advertising and jank. Gone are the legendary days of xorg.conf. Linux has less problems than Windows now. Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren't very relevant to me. As for Mac OS it's fine, I guess, but I strongly dislike the settings program, and it's not like you can install an nvidia card there.
People will buy a Steam Machine who would not buy a Linux desktop.
The perception and the marketing are very different. it is small and looks like games console. This is something people will buy instead of a Playstation or a gaming PC. A lot of people buying it will not know what Linux is.
If you look at this page:
https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine
It does not use the word "Linux" at all and only mentions Arch and KDE right at the bottom of the specs.
> Linux has less problems than Windows now.
I agree, and it has been my experience for the last few years. I am not a gamer nor do I use any of the software you mention so its even better for me. I am very glad not to be using Windows 11 from what I hear of it.
>People will buy a Steam Machine who would not buy a Linux desktop.
I have a Linux desktop and a mental block around playing games on a computer. The computer is supposed to be where I work or write code, etc. If I have leisure time, I "should" do something away from the computer.
Getting a steam deck let me shake some of that. I'd be very tempted by a box that is a Linux computer, but for fun use only.
And this is due to Valve's big investments in Proton, Steam Deck and the new Steam hardware to get game compatibility working from both the Linux/Wine side as well as making game developers aim for compatibility.
One part of it. The other (and arguably bigger in some way) part are drivers (Nvidia, amd, Intel) that improved a great deal over the years.
Kind of helps that most AI work happens on Linux too. ;)
They've been supporting KDE as well for years now.
> Support from professional software vendors (Dassault, Autodesk, et al) and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren't very relevant to me.
I think that's maybe what GP was getting at. If you know how to debug stuff and such then Linux is perfectly serviceable today.
With something like this, between Valve presumably publishing some docs and a big community for a single platform it should become a lot easier for people who are less familiar to search "I got xyz error on my steam box what do I do" and get help they can use. For mass adoption I think that's a big step. And then from there they can start venturing further out, if they want.
What do these things have to do with each other? You can't debug your way out of bad Nvidia support or nonexistent Dassault support. You have to just not use these products in combination with Linux, or just accept the issues that come with them.
> You can't debug your way out of bad Nvidia support or nonexistent Dassault support.
With bad Nvidia support very often you can, there exist a lot of workarounds found by people.
With Dassault support you are right, because a lot less people use their products than Nvidia products and those people typically don't share on public forums.
People using Steam Machine will be sharing problems and solutions on public forums and there will be more of them than people using Dassault products.
> Support from professional software vendors [..] and Nvidia could be better, admittedly, but these restrictions aren't very relevant to me.
Quality of support from Nvidia on linux is the reason that I went with AMD for my linux work+gaming rig. That's why probably Valve chosen AMD too. As amount of linux gamers increases, maybe Nvidia will see the light too. For me, linux+AMD+Steam stack "just works".
Nvidia has always had a hard time maintaining good relationships with partners (see the whole Apple fiasco in the early 2010s), their Linux support is anemic and now they're gorged up to the gills with stupid AI money.
They probably don't even bother picking up the phone when Valve calls. Only AMD will sell you an integrated CPU/GPU system with the power envelope needed for modern games.
Yes - but now what would you rather plug into a big screen TV? Supposing you opt for an OS like Bazzite/pop that is TV friendly then you are turning a desktop into a multimedia console foremost. People like stuff that works out of the box.
Conversely You can also turn the Steam Machine into a desktop by installing another OS
Another nice thing about the Pi is that you know for sure there won't be any major Linux issues; the official distro is tested for that hardware and that hardware alone. I'm assuming the same will apply for Linux on the Steam Machine, whereas most of the time when I install Linux on a random PC, I have to debug some issue with audio/networking/video (which is less common these days, but I guess I'm unlucky).
Speaking of which, I recently bought a Ryzen Framework laptop assuming the recommended Linux distro would run smoothly, but unfortunately I hit a few glitches, including a really annoying amdgpu bug that keeps making the screen flicker. I might have to mess with kernel boot parameters. Disappointing.
Since the Steam Machine is meant as a consumer product, hopefully it will run Linux solidly, and that's a big plus for me. I wouldn't touch Windows with a 10 foot pole these days.
I have a Framework Ryzen AI 300 series. Had the screen flickering after a kernel update several weeks ago. Fix was to add "amdgpu.dcdebugmask=0x2" to the grub kernel cmdline. Running Fedora 43, fully up to date as of yesterday. I sadly can't find the official forum thread about it. Hope it helps though.
The Arduino was 30$ when it came out. The Raspberry was 35$.
I'd be astonished if they manage to get the Steam Machine down to 800$ (bundled with a controller). Knowing how Valve loves their margins, it's probably closer to 1000$ or even more. This is not something you spontaneously buy to play around with.
In one of the interviews that came out when the Steam Machine embargo ended, someone from Valve said that, unlike with Steam Deck, they can't afford to sell at a loss because the form factor and the OS of the Machine make it possible to buy it just for general compute, which would be devastating with negative margins. So, unfortunately, I guess it will be 800-1000$ in the end
That is still cheaper than the index when it came out, and it sounds like a general improvement in all areas. Flagship vr for less than the cost of the latest smartphone seems pretty reasonable given how low adoption is.
They are talking about the Machine (computer/console), not the Frame (VR-glasses).
The cost of freedom.
Moore's Law is Dead (chip analyst YouTuber) believes a $300 bill of materials and $600, maybe even $450 for the lower SKU.
The CPU and GPU in this are last generation, and he believes Valve got a bulk discount on unsold RDNA3 mobile GPUs. They did something similar with the Steam Deck riding off a Magic Leap custom design. People predicted that would be pricey too but launched with (and still has) a $399 model.
You have to take MLID with a several large grains of salt. He gets a lot wrong, and when he does, he deletes the corresponding videos. There are Reddit subs that won't allow links to his videos for that reason. Valve has also said that it won't be console-type pricing, more like the pricing of a decent SFF PC.
Having said that, it would be great to see the GabeCube come in around the prices he's guesstimating. I hope it finds great success.
300$ BOM sounds incredibly low to me, especially now with the exploding prices for storage and RAM. Maybe they have already stocked up on it, but I doubt it. The huge heat sink also cannot be cheap. Then of course there's the whole tariff uncertainty.
The lower SKUs for Steam Deck are sold pretty much with zero margin or even at a loss, as Newell said this was a strategic decision to enter the mobile gaming market. However, for PC gaming, Valve already has a monopoly, and selling general-purpose hardware with little or no margin sounds like a recipe for losing money quick, which is not what Valve is known for...
But hey, we don't have to argue. Let's meet on HN again when the price is announced and I'll happily eat my words. :-)
The hardware does not compare favorably to a 2024 (current, in other words) Mac Mini.
Consider what the Steam Machine requires sacrificing:
- fewer USB-C connectors
- larger physical footprint
- can't buy and take it home today
It's hard to do an apples-to-apples comparison between the chips, but where one is better than the other on some dimension, it's offset by some other. They're approximately comparable.
Now, what's the price of the Mac Mini? $598.92
When people are talking about price points that have a higher margin than even Apple's devices have, you have to stop and consider whether people who are tossing around numbers like $750 with a straight face are actually trying to be rational but failing or they are just totally yielding to getting caught up in the hype.
The Mac Mini for 600$ comes with 16GB unified memory and 256GB storage. To make it comparable, you'd need to configure it with 24GB and 512GB, resp., and voila, 999$. You are surely aware that the lowest SKUs from Apple have way lower margins, since nobody buys them anyway because who wants to live with 256GB of storage? It's just to have that sweet "starting at 599$" on the store front page.
Now, of course Apple takes ridiculous money for additional RAM and storage, but this is exactly how they achieve their famous margins (everything's soldered, so you cannot upgrade yourself). Thanks to the AI hype, DDR5 RAM is very expensive at the moment, as is GDDR5, as is SSD storage. Nobody here, including you, knows what kind of deal Valve will be able to get here. There's a reason they are not announcing any prices yet, because there are so many uncertainties at the moment (tariffs, anyone?), that most probably Valve themselves do not know yet.
Depends what people are buying a steam machine for and what are the alternatives. Can you use a Mac mini for pretty much the same purpose? Genuine question since I'm not a gamer nor a Mac user.
The Mac Mini does not have the sustained thermal capability of the big 6-inch fan in the Steam Machine. So it'll throttle. The Mac Studio probably has better thermals than what Steam will ship, but it's far more expensive.
The Mac Mini can play many games, but it cannot play most games like this Steam Machine. Developers barely supported the Mac before the ARM switch, and now it's somehow even worse.
Gaming with a Mac is an exercice in zen enlightenment.
AMD is in dire straits - their GPU market share is basically nothing right now, I wouldn't be surp
Plus the 7600M (which is suspected to be the Steam Machine GPU) is an existing design on a legacy node, and they don't have to worry about it threatening their current lineup. They can go pretty low with the price.
They might get something out of it - considering the modest hardware, devs will have to optimize for it, which might get them a couple extra percent on more modern hardware as well.
This is already happening with the Steam Deck! Some of the best AAA games released in the last few years play excellently on the Steam Deck. This is mainly because it provides an excellent baseline that developers can test and optimise for. When least 1.5% or more of your customers have this exact configuration, it makes sense to optimise for them.
The 2023 game of the year was Baldurs Gate III. During the development they specifically tested on the Deck and it played pretty well. But they optimised the heck out of it, finally shipping a native Deck build earlier this year.
That’s why the Deck punches well above its weight - all the optimisation that devs do for it. And that’s why gamers continue to buy it, years after it released. Devs aren’t lazy, or averse to optimisation. They just need a large enough target to optimise for. If the Deck/GabeCube is a large enough proportion of the player base, they’ll put in the effort.
Experts tend to greatly underestimate the importance of friction.
By the time you’ve finished saying “gcc and a custom toolchain” you’ve lost most of your potential audience. If you’re a professional or even an experienced hobbyist, it’s no big deal. But if the idea of programming embedded systems is new to you, it’s a lot of effort. And it’s not clear how much effort it will be, or if you’ll even be capable of it. It’s not fun to be knee deep in a complicated install and have no idea if you’ll ever be able to get it working. Lots of people will find something else to occupy their time rather than attempt it.
That then leads to community and better tools, and maybe it becomes a good choice even for experts. And even if it never does, it provides a great stepping stone, since trying and failing to set up the more complicated tools is a lot more tolerable if you can fall back to the simple IDE you’ve been using.
SteamOS is locked down. it is not a community driven project. You cannot update if you modify the rootfs. Valve created a true console, it is not a PC.
Sorry that’s absolutely not the case. They’ve created “locked down” experience so that is serviceable and harder to break but you’re absolutely free to install arch, ubuntu, whatever and put Steam on top of it. You can install Windows even.
You don’t have to choose “all or nothing”. You are not being locked in an ecosystem like you do with the consoles Steam Machine aims to compete with.
Immutable =/= locked down
Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox.
A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless.
I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC.
Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users.
Given Valve gave money to a lot of open source maintainers , it’s also great for Linux.
Just take my money
Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat** or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage*** if you're into those kinds of games.
* I don't care what the intention is, they are _objectively_ intrusive.
** Last time I argued this, someone seemed to assume that I was claiming that writing Linux kernel drivers is harder than Windows kernel drivers. I am not arguing that, you need some kind of trusted party enforcing signed kernel drivers and a signed kernel in order to make KLA sufficiently hard to bypass.
*** In terms of the average Joe just wanting their game to run rather than having to think about the ethical implications of buying hardware you don't actually own or running an OS which gives control of your hardware to various corporations (but not you).
> Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat* or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage** if you're into those kinds of games.
Depends on just how successful SteamOS gets. If it start to have a significant market share, competitive multiplayer games might start to find it hard to ignore it. Though how they decide to deal with that, I have no idea.
I think Valve see a future for anti-cheat where most of it is behavioral analysis. Client-side anti-cheat is a big game of cat and mouse. It does make cheat harder to develop, but to a point where the customer is impacted. Post game analysis cannot be countered "technically". Cheat would need to mimic a real player behavior, which at the end is a success. If you can't tell if a player is cheating or not, does it matter that they are ? Although for things like wallhacks, it might be harder to detect.
"you can't tell if a player is cheating or not, does it matter that they are"
This is basically effectively where KLA has gotten to. There are still plenty of cheaters, people just don't realize.
I think it does matter in a strictly moral sense, and if people were more aware of how bad the problem is, they would likely be outraged. Alas, since they can't see it, they are not aware of it, so there is no outrage and the games companies are satisfied.
KLA?
Kernel-level Anticheat
I think the assumption that Valve would choose user protection over getting games to work is flawed, they want openness where possible because they see it as a competitive advantage. With VAC they clearly think that maximally invasive anti-cheat isn't necessary so maybe they'll try to push providers in that direction?
Valve thinks it's not necessary and it's still in the air if it really isn't.
They have bet on the behavioral analysis anti-cheat horse but it hasn't won any races yet.
Moreover, they've proven that it's certainty more difficult to get it working than regular old fuck-the-end-user anti cheat.
Lastly, don't assume that the success of the platform will persuade these companies. They were already firmly un-persuaded when the steam deck got popular. And really, I think the popularity of a platform depends on the support of these companies more than the support of these companies depends on the popularity of a platform.
There is a real need for anti cheat / certified hardware. Valve is uniquely be positioned to address it because they have trust from the gaming community. Ideally a single anti cheat mechanism would be shared by all software vendors. Online games could request "console mode" involving hardware key exchange. Done right this wouldn't have to be invasive like current anti cheat.
It's either invasive anti-cheat on a vendor controlled platform or it's a totally locked down vendor controlled platform, there are no other options in the client side anti cheat space.
Given that valve refuses to use KLA for their own competitive multiplayer games, and has gone out of their way to not make their hardware locked down, I really dont think they will go down the path of making a locked down platform or facilitating intrusive anti cheat.
Is it truly either-or? Obviously the root of anti-cheat needs to be totally locked down, aka the TPM. But almost all "open" computers have a locked down TPM. The TPM doesn't need to prevent you from running an unsigned firmware, kernel, modules or user software, it only needs to report on whether you are / have. You can reboot your computer into "trusted" mode and run your games with anti-cheat. Then when you're done playing you can as much unsigned software as you want.
You ask if it's either intrusive spyware or if it's a locked down system and then describe dual-booting intrusive spyware.
A TPM is entirely under your control. It's designed in such a way that you can't do certain things with data within it, but that's not because (at least in theory) someone else can and is controlling your TPM to prevent you from doing those things. The TPM, unlike an installation of Windows, doesn't only listen to Microsoft.
What I'm describing is exactly the situation now. Many people dual boot Windows & Linux, with kernel level anti-cheat on their Windows partition. The existence of Linux on the same computer does not prevent the kernel level anti-cheat from working on Windows.
Similarly, the presence of unsigned software on a computer would not stop a Linux kernel level anti-cheat from working, and the kernel level anti-cheat shouldn't prevent the unsigned software from working. Once you run that unsigned software, your machine is tainted similarly to the way your kernel is tainted if you load the NVidia driver.
I wonder if it’s possible to implement anti-cheat as a USB stick. Your GabeCube or gaming PC would stay open by default, but you could buy an anti-cheat accessory that plugs into a free USB port. Connecting that device grants access to match making with other people who have the device.
There are several products that rely on a USB device like this for DRM solutions. It’s probably much easier to unlock static assets than validate running code, but I don’t have insight on the true complexity.
>I wonder if it’s possible to implement anti-cheat as a USB stick. Your GabeCube or gaming PC would stay open by default, but you could buy an anti-cheat accessory that plugs into a free USB port. Connecting that device grants access to match making with other people who have the device.
What does the USB stick actually do? The hard part of implementing the anti-cheat (ie. either invasive scanning or attestation with hardware root of trust) is entirely unaddressed, so your description is as helpful as "would it be possible to implement a quantum computer as a USB stick?"
I am very skeptic there's much cheating in Counter Strike or Dota.
They use different means to detect cheaters, which means sometimes they are banned several weeks after the fact, but they do ban cheaters.
> Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users.
We are also out of the rat race of hardware requirements of the 90s. I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch, that thing can run a lot of games. It's mainly storage and RAM for modded minecraft or Satisfactory that's a bit of a mess atm. Though RAM prices are spicy at the moment, jeez.
Similar, my dad has my system from 10 years ago or more, and the only real snag for his strategy games is now a DX12 requirement.
> I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch
Yep, people who didn't fall for the resolution meme can play any games maxed out with a 2060. People chasing 4k and 120+ fps will never ever get satisfied and will always spend $1k every other year for the new high end gpu
I made two upgrades since 2015, ryzen 7 1700 to ryzen 5 5600,for $100. And I swapped my gtx 970 for an rtx 2060, for $300
any strategy game recommendations from your dad?
It's certainly not an existential threat to Playstation, but Xbox certainly has weakened itself enough that yes, this could be another nail in the coffin, given that their plan was to retreat into the Windows ecosystem.
The low specs aren't a problem if it's cheap enough, but for every dollar this goes above the retail price of a PS5 will seriously hurt its mass appeal.
The problem for Valve is that they can't really sell this thing at a console-like discount, because it's a general purpose computer. If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever (just like what happened to Sony when they allowed the PS3 to boot into Linux and they had to release an emergency update that disabled the linux functionality even though it was an advertised feature).
I really hope this will be successful, but it'll likely be successful in a specific niche. The nice thing though about this niche is that they don't have to hit anywhere near the same sales numbers as a console to be a success because the R&D costs are lower, and games didn't have to be specifically tailor made for it.
E.g. the PS Vita sold more units than the SteamDeck, but the Vita was an unmitigated failure for Sony because unlike the SteamDeck, the Vita needed games to be specifically made for it, whereas the SteamDeck benefits from the entire PC ecosystem so doesn't need the same level of adoption to be a (limited) success.
> If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever
Sure, but corporations don't want/need the same spec. They don't need the GPU, they don't need the fancy controller. If you just want a cheap PC that'll run a browser and Office, you can get them for under $200. If you want a Beelink with CPU/RAM/SSD similar to the Steam Machine, that's $350, and it includes a Windows license. Steam machine has an estimated BOM of $425, so even $500 will be a subsidized price after overhead. As long as Valve prices well above $250 it'll be safe from this concern, since corporations will likely want to add a Windows license to the cost.
> It's certainly not an existential threat to Playstation
To add to this, PlayStation is almost entirely sustained by exclusives at this point, and it's starting to backfire (more and more players are just waiting for the PC release, and the wait is killing some of marketing/hype that a game would have had, e.g., FF16 likely would have done a lot better if it released for PC at the same time rather than starting with PS exclusivity, and I suspect Death stranding 2 will be the same
> If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever
On one hand, this would be a problem.
On the other hand, if the Steam Machine doesn't support windows, businesses fleeing from MS Windows en masse because the Steam Machine is cheap would be a VERY interesting turn of events, and I'd be VERY curious to see how it all unfolds.
Sorry if I was unclear, but what I was saying was that this would be unsustainable because the only way it'd be possible is if Valve was subsidizing each unit in hopes of recouping their losses on Steam game sales.
If that happened, Valve would get bankrupted by companies buying up subsidized Steam Machines with no intention of playing games on them.
Yes that's what I understood. But it'd still be insteresting.
Amazon was once a bookstore. There's nothing stopping Steam from adapting to a "Steam Business Machines" / "Steam OS Business Edition" once it has a foothold in the business market. After all, the store already distributes software, they're just not as popular as games. So if this scenario were to happen, and Microsoft failed to react, I'm sure Steam would adapt very quickly to take advantage of it rather than sit and wait for the bankruptcy.
I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me in all the ways that matter, and it's probably going to save me from spending 1500 euros on a mid-range gaming laptop that I don't really need. The only thing that I don't use my ipad for is playing games with my friends in other countries while we chat on discord. And the last 5 games we've played together do benefit from keyboard and mouse controls, but don't have huge spec requirements. And pretty much everything else for which I'd want a bigger screen than my ipad's can be done in the browser, which I can also happily install on the steam machine because it's just a Linux machine with some extra bells. So yeah, it will probably completely replace my need for a PC, and I'd be plenty happy to pay a PC price for it as a result.
> I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me
because "console" isn't what a product is (supply) - it is a name for product niche (demand)
when someone talks about buying a console, the expectations are 1)significantly cheaper than "usual" computer 2)most likely optimized for games (controller input, easy install) 3)expectation of using already existing TV as display
consoles weren't different from low-end pc all the way since x-box
Because it gives you a console-like experience. What's so hard to get about that? In their own press release, Steam notes it's "just a PC."
Well, it's kind of a new thing, isn't it.
Just like the deck popularized the idea of "handheld PCs". Maybe the Machine will do the same to "console PC". It's a PC, but also a console.
To me, PC = Windows = Microsoft's Spyware and every other game company's anti-cheat root kits
Someone might say I can install Linux on my PC but then I have to deal with maintaining it.
So, what I hope the Steam Machine is, is effectively PC based console with no Microsoft, no root kits, and no maintainence.
> Someone might say I can install Linux on my PC but then I have to deal with maintaining it.
What maintenance do you mean? I do not know of an OS that does not require allowing updates to keep secure.
It definitely meets the other criteria you want.
I don't know what Linux you're on. On mine I have to actively maintain it. I have to run something `sudo apt update` `sudo apt upgrade` every week or so and then deal with whatever breaks. Conversely, on my Switch and PS5 it does this automatically. I expect the Steam Machine will also update itself automatically. They have an incentive not to break things since it will cost them money to fix all the device they break. Linux on the other hand (not complaining) basically says "not our fault if it breaks". So, I'd prefer the Steam Machine where, I believe, it is their fault if it breaks and they will fix it.
Sometimes there are regressions in the kernel and other driver issues. My laptop is more than five years old and I had to boot an older kernel for a while until a regression got fixed. I guess that's less likely to happen on Windows. Not being as close to the hardware vendors means there are bound to be more edge cases even on boring distros like Ubuntu.
If you don't need to get an expensive gaming PC your should not get an expensive gaming PC. The steam hardware isn't magic. You can already get equivalent specs for cheap.
You can? What am I looking for?
I've tried to hit the $600 mark and in the past few years it's gotten harder and harder. The GPU invariably ruins things. And normal APUs are too asthmatic to really game on.
Good, the Steam Machine won't be 600$ most likely, either.
Also you don't necessarily need a dedicated GPU, unless you go with Intel.
The APU from AMD they have is pretty much magic. You will not find anything comparable, any Ryzen APU you can actually buy is pretty much trash apart from very light-weight gaming. You absolutely need a separate GPU, and even low-end will set you back at least 250$. The only way to build something comparable for cheap would be to buy used.
The APU in the steam deck isn't anything too special (the 740M is comparable but is RDNA3). For the GabeCube they are using a customized 7600M, which previously has been used in many eGPUs for Chinese handhelds (at a very high price).
AMD does have some pretty powerful APUs right now, but I don't think we'll see it on many mass market
How customized it is, I guess we'll find out closer to release, but I am guessing just based on the dimensions that it is just customized specifically for the case, for space and cooling reasons.
A similar PC without the fit and finish with just consumer parts comes in at around $900.
Curious how much pull valve has with AMD to get this into people's hands.
Exactly, I sold my Switch because I just happened to play most of my games on PC and steam. Worst case scenario, it can be a desktop computer (I don't have one, only a laptop)
Whereas a playstation or a switch, once I don't game anymore, it's just an expensive paperweight
Man, I got a free ps5 from my isp and was excited to have friends over for games. Come to find out that playing games with your friends apparently isn’t a thing anymore (I guess there’s fighting and racing games). What a lame-ass boring system.
This is why I've been all in on Steam for so long! The catalog is so huge, there's a massive number of fantastic couch multiplayer games. It is indeed a bit more fiddly... I've found that it's generally easier to connect my Steam Deck to the TV and play lower fidelity games than it is to fiddle with a Windows machine that needs to be prepped for friends popping in every other month.
Although, Nintendo is still doing a good job at keeping the couch-social experience alive, and building 1st party games that can be good solo experiences but really shine when played next to a friend sitting on the same couch.
I used to rally friends over for couch gaming years ago. Think I'll try to put something together for Thanksgiving. Been a bit out of the loop - any recent PC couch games you recommend for normies? I think for my group, it'll lean casual / co-operative. Nintendo's always felt too kid-like for us.
The Trine series was a big hit for us way back.
"It takes two", "Split Fiction" and "Lego Voyage" are the same style of casual two-player coop. Downside is it's only two players but otherwise may he exactly what you're looking for and very well made.
If you want something a bit different, check out "keep talking or everbody explodes".
Rivals of Aesther - like Super Smash Bros but with Steam Workshop support for player-made characters... TARS (interstellar) vs Ronald McDonald vs Obama anyone??
nidhogg - deserves to be in an arcade cabinet but honestly this one is ALWAYS a hit...just 2player though
Broforce - 80s action stars in 80s action movie multiplayer platformer
Ultimate Chicken Horse - competitively build a platformer level and then race to complete the level first, best with 4 players
TowerFall Ascension - 2-4 players, also deserves to be in an arcade cabinet
Screen Cheat - FPS made for the couch; think N64 Goldeneye or Quake, but all the players are invisible, so the only way to figure out where your opponents are is to look at their quadrants (screencheat)
Overcooked 2 - it's pretty kid-oriented on the surface, but it's a game where you must out-communicate the absolute chaos unfolding around you in order to succeed...such a good couch-multiplayer experience, but best for experienced gamers imho
Rocket League
Magicka
Regular Human Basketball - control giant basketball automatons by jumping inside them and operating the manual controls in a team v team. Minimum 4 players to really work well, supports up to 10 players shared screen
That should get you started! But oops that wasn't my casual coop list, more my "makes for memorable group experiences" list.
It Takes Two, Portal 2, Untitled Goose Game, Halo Master Chief Collection was like $10 recently, all come to mind as positive local coop experiences I've had.
Thank you!
There are a few games that support couch coop, but you’re right it’s not very well supported any more.
We enjoyed Split Fiction and It Takes Two recently, but those are quite couple-y. And Blue Prince is very playable as a group effort.
Then there are games like “overcooked”, though again not many. IIRC there’s a new Katamari on the way as well.
But there really aren’t that many “get your mates together” games any more.
> But there really aren’t that many “get your mates together” games any more.
It's especially fascinating against the lens of this return-to-office phase we're living through. I'm a big fan of WFH but hear me out: online gaming (physically by yourself) is somewhat analogous to work-from-home. It empowers you to optimize your entertainment, challenge, competition into narrower and narrower facets of the experience. And tribe.
But jibba jabba around the water cooler can be enjoyable with the right people, just like it can be on the couch with friends and fam with Mario Kart, NHL '97, or Jackbox. Or board games.
There's room in this zeitgeist for a breakout multiplayer hit that just doesn't feel good unless you're in person.
Playing games with friends has never been more popular. I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device.
But there's still plenty of couch co-op games. They're usually quite niche though and not your typical racing or shooting game.
We ended up hooking up my old N64 and playing Goldeneye
> I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device.
What's the point with a console then though?
It is on the Nintendo Switch. My kids play loads of Mario Party, Minecraft and Mario Cart.
> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox.
Xbox, as a console, already is in an existential crisis.
I think people have weird expectations about what the Steam Machine will cost. From what Valve has said so far (cheaper than if you build it yourself from parts), it will still cost significantly more than a PS5, and probably also more than a PS5 Pro, while having less performance than both. You will not beat the PS5 in terms of performance per dollar. Yes, games are more expensive on PS5, but most people don't work that way but just want to know whether they'll be able to play GTA6 on day one.
I don't think it's an existential crisis for console manufacturers, but it's certainly part of a shift in how we think about "consoles".
Microsoft has seen the writing on the wall for years now, and they've expanded their library to run across platforms. The Xbox as we knew it is effectively dead.
Sony and Nintendo are still holding on to the legacy concept, and trying to lure people into their walled garden, but even their hardware is essentially a general purpose PC that happens to be locked down in software.
So I suspect we'll see one last traditional "console" generation with the PS6 and whatever Nintendo makes next, and after that the concept of a single-purpose machine will fizzle out. Nintendo will probably be the last to give in, since they have the strongest first-party IPs to make that feasible, but eventually they'll follow suit as well.
It's not a console you can use as a PC, it's a PC you can use as a PC.
If you want a console you can use as a PC, the next Xbox is rumoured to be along those lines. It will run Windows so you can play Steam, GOG etc but will also run the existing Xbox library natively.
The 70% figure needs to be taken in context, tons of people have Steam installed on old computers that they use for old games. I currently have it installed on three devices, and yes two of them are worse specs than this. But I don't have any intention of upgrading them either, they are just old machines I have hanging around. They do the job if I'm travelling.
Is that actually confirmed? That Microsoft is going to allow steam and other third party stores on the new Xbox console?
> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox.
Not really. An existential crisis to System76, Framework computer and all the other Linux computer companies.
> A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless.
No different to getting a regular PC but this time you can just buy a high performance state of the art GPU like the NVIDIA RTX 5090 and it runs all your games at 4K @ 120 FPS instead of 60.
> I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC.
Proton is the software that is doing the optimizations. However once you want to run a highly anticipated game like Battlefield 6 and your friends are playing it on their Windows PCs and consoles on day 1, the Steam Machine is left behind waiting for compatibility updates.
> Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users.
2020 specs in 2026 isn't really good for convincing 70% of Windows PC gamers or console players either.
The real test is when the next generation Xbox or Playstation arrives, will the Steam Machine outsell them?
> Given Valve gave money to a lot of open source maintainers , it’s also great for Linux.
We will see if that is enough to convince Steam players to run SteamOS instead of Windows or consoles. but so far it is totally underpowered and you might as well get a Windows PC + Nvidia RTX 5090 which runs all your games well including the highly anticipated ones.
No thanks and no deal.
A 5090 is likely 3x the cost of the steam machine. You are at the extreme high end of the gaming market here and not the target of the steam machine.
This and machines with 5090s are a completely different market.
The Steam Machine is marketed primarily as something sitting under your TV. I don't have 5090 under my TV money, 99.9% of people don't. That's not the target demographic.
Funny to see "Game Machine that can be used as a PC" when, as I was growing up, it was "Personal Computer can also play games".
In both cases I suppose it was the dedicated gaming-machines (Switch now, Atari then) that were feeling the squeeze.
Yeah, learn with the computer! When I was growing we had an intellivision game console. My parents bought us the "keyboard component" that turned it into a computer. What a terrible computer it was. Turned out it was released because the company was being fined for advertising a computer add on and not delivering. You wanted to write games but no, worse than the timex Sinclair 1000...
A lot of home computing used tvs back then
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Computer_System
Then sony produce ps only exclusive s. No pc ports anymore.
That is only a problem if you suffer from FOMO. Otherwise there are enough PC games for a hundred lifetimes.
Not going to happen. In fact, they seem to go the opposite direction because there's more money to be made.
I also don't believe it, but sony was a all time bad player.
I like the Xbox because they changed so much in the console ecosystem, play anywhere, backwards compatibility without extra cost.
I don’t think that’s true. The whole reason they’re producing PC ports is to sell the most profitable part (software) to those who to haven’t been giving them money.
Sony makes zero dollars off of the consoles, and while they do enjoy taking their PS Store royalties rather than giving it up to Steam, they also have a huge collection of first party studios that might even be a more important business.
And it’s not like Sony is giving their big console releases PC ports on day one, if you want to own them right away you have to buy a PlayStation.
You are mostly right about the broad strategy but a few of the claims are too absolute. Sony does make money on hardware later in the cycle even if margins are small. They also care about PC ports for more than just pure profit such as extending the IP footprint and keeping franchises visible between major releases. The part about delayed PC ports is completely correct. PlayStation is still the primary window and PC is the secondary revenue phase once the console market is saturated.
How could you believe that Sony would give up 30% of every Call of Duty, Madden, Fortnite sale for the measly PC sales of Slapper-Man 2 and God of Warm?
Every Steam Machine sold that plays Sony's exclusives is a genuine threat to Sony's control over the gaming market. The more I think about it, the more I believe Sony's games coming to PC is over since yesterday's announcement.
Sony’s current tactics is to publish all their releases on PC 6-12 months later. Doing this expands the potential player base and even makes some players to double dip and buy the game twice
If this Steam Machine really takes off and starts impacting Sony's ability to sell Playstation consoles, you bet your ass Sony will stop porting games to PC.
What's truly crazy is the VR headset is the same architecture as the Steam Machine. As in, it's a completely open Linux system you can wear on your face. They are literally telling the community to go nuts and hack it and install whatever you want on there.
If there's any time for people who believe in open systems and open software to step up and buy the hell out of something, this it it. It will be very interesting to see if the play works out our not.
The Frame announcement was certainly the one that blew my mind. A VR headset with an ARM CPU which runs a full fledged Linux operating system, can play x86 games via Proton, and can sideload Android APKs? What? Man, those guys have been busy.
Valve probably also spent a small fraction of the absurd billions meta spent on VR.
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All of this is true, but Valve is one of the best companies I know and for now, I’ll happily give them money.
It’s not about the fact that I’m actually going to use it. It’s about the fact that I want people to keep making things like this. It’s about the fact I want to reward them for not locking it down completely.
I wish I had that kind of money. Making a purchase solely for such reasons is completely out of the question for me. And for most people I'd assume?
Ultimately every purchase you make is a vote in support of the company/org you are buying from. Why do you go to one grocery store vs another? One hairdresser vs another?
Maybe I'm misinterpreting the blog and/or comment, but if I don't need groceries, and can list 20+ reasons why I don't need groceries, I'm not going to get groceries anyway just because I like the grocery store very very much.
There's also another way to interpret that. For me for example, I have the same PC for 5 years now, and before that I had the same one for 10 years. Basically, I run it till I really really can't. I can afford replacements more than once every 10 years, but I don't buy it simply cos it's not necessary. But in this situation if I had a similar fondness for valve, I might go ahead and buy it and cut short my not-for-affordability-reasons wait.
I know a lot of people that behave this way with phone purchases.
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You wouldn't like Valve so much if you explicitly saw the 30% Steam tax, I mean fee, declared every time you bought a PC game on Steam. Imagine if Microsoft did that. +30% for every Windows software. Like iOS. Then Steam games would be +60% rather than +30%.
It's not really a tax though. Other platforms offer a lower percentage (Epic: 0% up to 1000000 copies sold and 12% above) and yet the prices on Epic aren't cheaper than on steam.
If the final price doesn't change based on the storefront cut, then as a consumer, I don't care.
Doesn't Steam have a price-parity clause in their contracts with developers?
https://www.wolfire.com/blog/2021/05/Regarding-the-Valve-cla...
You don't have to imagine anything, Microsoft also takes 30% of every purchase made via Microsoft Store.
Apparently they don't, this says 12% to 15%: https://www.techradar.com/pro/microsoft-just-dropped-its-sto...
That's still higher than what seems reasonable for a simple store front, but they aren't as bad as Valve or Apple.
Note that Valve is a relatively small company with only a few hundred employees, but with one of the most extreme revenue-per-employee ratios in the world, estimated at $19 million per employee:
https://upptic.com/valve-structure-employment-numbers-revenu...
That's orders of magnitude higher than companies like Apple, Elsevier or Nintendo. Steam is basically free money for Valve. Valve is extracting huge rents (around 6.5 billion yearly revenue) for negligible expenses (only 79 people working on Steam).
> That's still higher than what seems reasonable
Based on what? Your arbitrary standards. I still don't understand what's wrong with 30% for everything Steam provides as a platform. It's perfectly acceptable. It's not making indie developers poorer. It helping to ensure Valve can focus on the things that matter to them and do things like invest in Steam Input, Proton, SteamOS, and Steam Deck/Machine/Controller/Frame/etc. And it's still significantly better than the times when your only option was brick and mortar, where you maybe got 10-30% as the developer.
Every other digital storefront does far less and still takes 15-30%. Why is Valve the big boogey man and everybody else is free to charge whatever they want on developers while doing fuck all for anybody but themselves?
> It's not making indie developers poorer.
Are you sure?
> Based on what? Your arbitrary standards.
Based on a strongly and persistently imbalanced ratio of revenue to expenses, which indicates a form of market inefficiency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_rent#Monopoly_rent (the mentioned network effects are basically what drives Steam rents)
> I still don't understand what's wrong with 30% for everything Steam provides as a platform. It's perfectly acceptable. It's not making indie developers poorer.
Of course it makes them poorer if a big chunk of what you pay for their games goes to Valve.
> It helping to ensure Valve can focus on the things that matter to them and do things like invest
But they basically aren't doing that. If a company has an extreme revenue-to-expense ratio, it means they are hardly investing any of their revenue. They only have a few hundred employees while making around 6.5 billion per year.
> Every other digital storefront does far less and still takes 15-30%. Why is Valve the big boogey man
Well, Microsoft seems to do 12-15% in the Microsoft Store. And I fully agree Apple is significantly worse than Valve with iOS, because there is no way to circumvent the 30% fee in iOS; indeed, it wouldn't even be possible to offer a software like Steam on iOS. (But it should also be noted that Apple has a much lower revenue-per-employee ratio than Valve, indicating that they reinvest a lot more of their revenue.)
There's a reason everyone else who comes to take on this "market inefficiency" fails. Amazon threw billions at it. So did Google. So has Epic. And Microsoft.
None of them dethroned steam, so 30% is still the cost to access the steam user base.
If tens of billions can't overcome this "inefficiency" then it sure seems like there might be more to the story than economics 101.
The fact is that Steam has an incredibly loyal _userbase_ and you won't convince them to leave unless steam betrays their trust, which they haven't.
The trust in any competitor is nearly 0 compared with Steam which has been a platform people have loved and used for over a decade now with basically 0 issues. No corporate missteps.
Arguably the biggest controversy is the latest way they made CS2 loot boxes less valuable, popping the insane bubble in the skins market. That's still ultimately good for the average gamer and I expect they'll come out smelling like roses.
> There's a reason everyone else who comes to take on this "market inefficiency" fails.
Yes, network effects, as discussed in the Wikipedia article linked above. It's the reason why Facebook or Twitter are so hard to replace, or eBay, or Amazon. In these cases larger platforms benefit from the fact that everyone else is already there, which makes switching hard. That doesn't mean they are inherently better though. They can even be significantly worse than alternatives, apart from network effects.
Part of the reason why these companies are still around and strong is because they continue to innovate. Facebook spun up Instagram for younger folk, Amazon has some of the best shipping/warehousing/distribution in the world. eBay has slowly become less relevant for local p2p purchase because its market share got eaten up by Facebook Marketplace.... Twitter had a big chunk of its userbase eaten up by Threads, hey I'm seeing a pattern here?
Yes, AFAIK this is an industry standard, both Sony and Nintendo also takes a similar approach.
Microsoft takes 30%, Sony takes 30% so that argument is out of the window.
Let's break down what you actually get for that 30% with Microsoft/Sony
- $120/yr (xbox) or $80/yr (ps) subscription fee
- Price subsidized console
- Friends system, voice chat/messages
- Online store/publishing regional pricing and associated locks
- Store for MTX
- Cloud based game saves
- Trophies/achivements and other player related goal setting
- CDN to distribute your game
- Remote play e.g. using your console to stream to your PC/Phone
- First class controller support
Steam gives you all of the above with literally 0 cost to the consumer aside from purchasing your game. The fact that anyone even pretends like this is a valid argument is a joke.
There are only a few hundred people working at Valve, with 79 working on Steam, but they are making 6.5 billion USD yearly. That's extreme. One of the highest revenue per employee ratios in the world. They are spending almost nothing. The 30% are almost pure profit.
Since PC is an open platform, the proper comparison would be other PC store fronts which are substantially cheaper than Steam. Unfortunately there is no incentive for users to switch, as Valve apparently contractually forbids games to be sold at a lower price outside Steam.
"Valve apparently contractually forbids games to be sold at a lower price outside Steam." This quote is based on one email from a valve employee circa 2017.
Furthermore, is it not Valves right to say if you wish to offer the same product at a lower price, we reserve the right not to sell your product anymore. Keep in mind in most cases when a game is not freely purchased through steam anymore you can still download the game from the CDN, you can also still use all of the online features for the game. You just cannot purchase a new copy
I really don't understand why price parity requirement is a bad thing. If you want to take a bigger slice of the pie you can eat up the infrastructure costs yourself or take your business elsewhere, EOS, Xbox, PlayStation store ect
"There are only a few hundred people working at Valve, with 79 working on Steam, but they are making 6.5 billion USD yearly. That's extreme. One of the highest revenues per employee ratios in the world. They are spending almost nothing. The 30% are almost pure profit."
You are absolutely right. that is far too much money and to which I simply ask the question why no other serious competition? Companies have poured millions into this and always miss the first stop gap of consumer rights first meaning any attempt they have to eat away at the market share fails so hard its actually embarrassing. Anyone arguing against the current system is just arguing against capitalism.
Out of all the companies in the gamer space hardware/software Valve are the only one who actually care for their customers and have regularly extended rights that go well beyond the legal minimum requirement, this is just a fraction of a reason why they have been and will continue to be first class in the gaming space
Said to a company that just released all their os as open source, contributing drastically to the community.
Please, compare that with Amazon and AWS, spot the difference
Nobody prevents game devs to sell on their own website with 0% tax. Curiously, they choose to go on the market with 30% tax.
I think the thing people are complaining about is that the game devs are prevented from selling on steam and also cheaper on another store.
This is because of network effects, which cause a monopoly-like situation. It's mentioned in the Wikipedia article on economic rent cited above.
I don’t care about the Steam tax. Steam is one of the few storefronts that actually show me what I want. That give me the ability to download any game I downloaded 20 years ago when I first installed it. They went through a few dozen iterations of nonsense social stuff, but through that all the core functionality just kept working.
I hate the iOS store because it’s full of ad-riddled slop. Steam isn’t remotely close to that. If I find a game on there, even if it’s bad, someone clearly spent time and love making it.
Steam definitely has a ton of garbage, half-assed, slop games on it. They definitely were not made with time and love.
And these games are usually review bombed to hell so that consumers can inform other people to stay away. It is an open marketplace
first world.. solutions?
Valve is still evil, just like any for-profit tech corps. They have made a fortune in csgo gambling boxes
there are tens if not hundreds of thousands of for-profit companies that are not “evil” - making money is not evil endeavor, you provide goods and services in exchange for money :)
I highly doubt it. Maybe not at the surface level but if you dig, you'll always find the dirt on any for-profit endeavor
dirt != evil
I guess we have different definitions of ‘evil.’
Average HN user has happily chugged the sugar coated propaganda from valve, which paints them as a saint which they clearly aren't
Valve has done good things, but I feel like the whole gambling drama went over people's heads for some reason
I've been using a somewhat low-spec PC to play games and for general desktop usage. Finding stuff in this form factor, that you can guarantee will be well put together and worth the money is a rarity.
Highly likely this could replace my desktop, as I don't need something much more powerful, just with more modern hardware. I don't do much AAA gaming and nearly game in my Steam library would run on this just fine. My regular daily computing needs can reasonably be satisfied with the compute power of a Raspberry Pi. I can swap flatpak based immutable SteamOS with plain Arch without losing the advantages (i.e. custom hardware settings integration) that one might sacrifice doing so on the Steam Deck.
This is going to be a no-brainer for my next upgrade.
> I don't do much AAA gaming and nearly game in my Steam library would run on this just fine.
I think that this is the issue with most people these days... The combination of work, seen it all, and frankly, often disappointing AAA games.
The time spend is often on more smaller studios that do something creative, and those are often not triple A graphical monsters anyway.
> This is going to be a no-brainer for my next upgrade.
Really depends on the price... Do not forget that its going to be released in 2026... At that time we get new Zen 6 CPUs (remember, this Steam Deck is Zen4), what will drive the prices of the old Zen4 down even more. Same with new GPUs.
Like, the Steam deck was incredible pricing for the hardware you got when released and sure, its still a good value for a handheld console, but from a hardware point of view, its really old now (zen2 cores).
Ditto, I don't need to pull double duty for desktop plus gaming. One device for each works.
It's the same as the steam deck: I don't enjoy video games anymore, I've actually never really enjoyed gaming except for a handful of titles. But I'll be damned, I love that Valve is bringing gaming to Linux and I'll buy the hardware just to support the cause. The people in my life that have been using the "I need Windows for my games" reason (or excuse ;)) to not switch to Linux are now slowly but surely leaving Windows!
wait, your going to buy Steam hardware to support Linux gaming? WFT. isn't the multi-million yatch Gabe bought enough?
go donate to khronos or the wine team. maybe even Godot, which treats Linux as a 1° class citizen
Good point, I just made a donation to the wine team. I still think buying Steam hardware is a good way to signal to the market that I want to see more of this.
Gabe buying a yacht makes the company evil or something? What's your point?
Valve has single-handedly massively contributed to Linux gaming. Buying their products is obviously beneficial to Linux gaming as a whole. It's in their best interest to continue their trend of supporting and improving Linux gaming.
I think it's important to note that it's not just gaming, but the improvements have cascaded over to regular desktop users as well: I'm taking about improvements in the kernel (for AMD CPUs mainly), improvements in the graphics stack (Mesa, amdgpu drivers), improvements in KDE and of course, improvements to the Wine project in general (which goes beyond gaming). Anyone who's been closely following the FOSS scene can see how the progress in these projects have exploded exponentially over the past 3-4 years, thanks to Valve.
And with the most recent announcements, we can expect to see a similar sort of growth in the FEX emulator and general ARM support for various projects, which is all every exciting even as a non-gamer.
I don't understand the "You can’t buy this without buying the Steam Controller." bit. If you want one, great, if not, it's no more necessary than with any other PC.
I've been gaming for ~40 years without ever touching a controller, why would I start now?
> without ever touching a controller, why would I start now?
I feel similar, but for us there's also no point to get a Steam Machine. Playing games while sitting on a living room couch in front of a TV with mouse and keyboard is not comfortable at all.
Using mouse and keyboard it is better to play games at a proper desk with an office chair and I already have such a PC.
I agree that I wouldn't get it in addition to a desktop PC (for one thing, I haven't owned a TV in 20+ years so couch gaming isn't a thing for me) but when the time comes to replace my current box I might well consider whatever Steam is offering at the time. Just because it's likely to be nicely designed, thoughtfully specced and decently supported.
Memory (both main and VRAM) might be a bit on the weak side for some non-gaming workloads though. I hope we'll see those bump up once the current supply squeeze is over.
I don't :)
I have an M1 Macbook, no gaming for me. So the Steam Machine is perfect for me.
I can just tap a button, it'll turn on and I can be gaming on my main monitor before I have time to grab a controller.
Yeah that's true. But I suppose you could just as well buy any other windows/linux PC. (I did so after finally ditching the playing-games-in-bootcamp-on-an-imac life.) I realize the same could be said about the "a box under the living room tv" use case, but I feel like to a lesser degree?
This is also what i do not understand about the price structure. Valve states that they want to sell it at PC prices, and not console prices. But then sells it like a Console, with the console bits.
Its like there is a identify crisis even at Valve. Why can this not be a streaming machine for people who want to remote game. Why do you need a controller, if maybe you have a steam deck and stream PC games from the Steam PC > Deck...
What if you just want to use this as a cheap dedicated gaming PC with a monitor and keyboard/mouse.
I feel like there is a identify crisis with the product. Like the started out making a console, but then realized that nothing prevents people from using this as a cheap PC, if Valve puts the price too low. So you have this retraction on the pricing.
Early PC gaming, such as the mid 80s (40 years ago) was dominated by the need for a joystick, which is the parent to modern controllers.
Regardless, some games are far better with a joystick, some with mouse. If we care for gaming experiences, it should be whatever is best.
Rocket league is an example. The pros play on pcs but hook a controller into it
I absolutely get (and happily used) joysticks, but if a game needs a joystick I'll use a joystick, not a controller in the modern console sense. I'm sure those are good for something, but it's not something I've ever played.
I am also in the same category, but some games are made for the controller.
Admittedly, the only one I can think of at the moment is Eldenring: The PC (mouse+keyboard) experience was terrible.
I still passed on a controller but the controller first experience was glaring.
Action roguelikes like Hades is also better on controller.
This is intended for use in a living room, on a couch, in front of a TV. Keyboards or joysticks are not suited for this.
Can't in the sense that it's irresistible :)
Because people on the internet will call you a fake gamer if you don't play souls like games and those are best experienced on a controller?
I am kind having a similar dilemma as the author of the blog post. Gabe Cube is the least interesting announcement that Valve did for me if I look at an objective level since I just built a PC that runs Jovian-NixOS (basically SteamOS, but running with NixOS as a base). My PC is way more powerful than the Gabe Cube too (at least in GPU, a Radeon 9070), and it is already connect to my TV since SteamOS makes this easy even if you're running the software in a unsupported configuration like I do.
But the Gabe Cube just lives rent free in my head. It looks sleek. I know that the software experience is going to be top-notch since I have a Steam Deck. I know that it is only going to get better with time (when the Steam Deck was released I barely touched it since lots of things didn't work well, but this year the Steam Deck is by far my most played machine).
Also I am finding gaming fun again since on Steam I can play lots of good and cheap games, since they're almost always on sale and there are lots of indie games that never get released in console.
I want to sell all my other consoles and just invest in the Steam ecosystem, especially nowadays that almost all games will eventually be multi-platform (even the ones from Xbox and PlayStation). It is not like I like to play lots of AAA games anyway, and at least the ones I am interested are already available or will be available in PC eventually (like Final Fantasy VII Remake, MGS3: Remake, etc). I also don't care about online multiplayer for the lack of kernel anti-cheat on SteamOS/Linux to be a problem.
I am seriously considering buying another TV (we only have one in our home right now) just to justify buying a Gabe Cube.
I greatly enjoy the single-purpose aspect of consoles: no upgrades, no other software to manage, etc.
So a single-purpose PC-based console basically made for Steam? That sounds great to me. I don't even have a 4K TV so the performance might be just what I need.
Back during Covid I bought a PC tower just to play PC games. Later I also bought a PlayStation because the couch experience is better. If the steam machine was available I’d definitely opt for that instead of both.
If steam continues the way it is, it will be hard for me to justify having a gaming PC and a console instead of just one machine.
Yeah I think what they'll miss is a small tool to stream your games to your TV (well maybe it's already possible ?) because the drawback of having just 1 machine as PC and console is that it can't be both at your desk and in next to your TV
I've fixed that with a long HDMI cable and wireless controller. It works great.
The main issue which has kept me at the desk for games, however, is that I'm way too used to keyboard & mouse and the controller experience is frustrating.
Do you mean Steam Remote Play and Steam Link?
Rightttt steam link, as I wrote this I wasn't sure it existed already or not. Perfect !
There's a Steam app on my Samsung smart TV that I think can do this, with a USB-controller connected to a USB-port on the TV. Haven't tried it though.
But I think the best way to do it is to have a cheap PC (or maybe an Android TV device or something?) connected to your TV. You can stream games to it from your gaming PC in the other room: https://store.steampowered.com/remoteplay
Note that there’s no secret sauce regarding Steam Machines. Once you put Bazzite, ChimeraOS or Jovian Nix on your PC, it can provide a great couch experience.
The secret sauce for me is that it is a complete out of box experience. You'll boot it and sign into steam and that's it. Like, sure you can get little PCs off Amazon or build your own micro-atx system with more performance. But I just wanna buy something and have it done for me. I want to buy a system that developers know is kind of a "base" spec.
If the Steam Machine becomes the base configuration that most games start targeting, then I think everyone will benefit from it.
I expect that steam machine will have better controller support. I found wireless controller support on Windows (both for ps4 and Xbox controllers) seriously lacking.
> In two years, you’ll upgrade your M1 to an M4+: there’s the power upgrade.
Only to play almost nothing or very badly if not supported natively. And no devs won't support mac games there is no incentive. Emulation is subpar compared to Proton on Linux, Apple people should really start stop thinking macbooks can do modern gaming, excepts for a couple of Capcom portings that were paid by apple to have them and some retro gaming
Supporting games on Mac is a huge hassle for developers for several reasons.
It is painfully annoying to compile any MacOS application without actually having a machine with Xcode installed. The server solutions you can get a hold of are bad because apple will not sell any rack mounted servers to the public and the machines they do sell are restricted to a max of two instances of OSX virtualized.
Your best bet is to rent a Mac server from one of these providers who just hoarde mac minis and throw them in custom datacenter racks
I'm also one of those people who does everything on my mac laptop, but hits a kvm switch to jump onto a PC to play games at night (when I have time, which I don't). At this point I've stopped pretending that I want a PC that I can upgrade and swap out parts. I just want a little box that doesn't make any noise and works as is. Framework desktop and now this steam machine look like good options. I'm a bit disappointed at the 8gb gpu though.
Same here. I like the end result of having a gaming/ML PC with all the specs that I chose out but assembling PCs is not a hobby that I enjoy, and gaming seems to be partying ways with ML anyways. The new world might well end up being DGX for ML, and Steam machine for games.
I think the Steam Machine has to succeed for SteamOS on Linux to keep growing, and for the niche of the Linux desktop to become larger.
Steam has already failed at this once, and it won’t try a third time.
(And Windows is currently at its lowest point, so it’s the perfect opportunity.)
> won’t try a third time
I see no evidence for this, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. Notably, after the initially failed Steam Machines, we now have Steam Deck, Steam Machine Mark II, Steam Frame, Steam Controller Mark II, etc.
And critically, Valve seems to be learning, iterating, and the Steam Deck and Steam Controller Mark II are both much more enjoyable to use than the first Steam Controller.
From their perspective, Valve are otherwise dependent on Microsoft or Apple who see them as competition to squeeze out. Success of the Steam hardware platforms is their only way to change that situation. Therefore all evidence points to Valve continuing to iterate until they find success. They are a private company, so they can afford to do so indefinitely without worrying about pissing off a board or investors.
Because steam/valve ist bound to gabe, not sure who comes after him. (10 years between the steam machines)
But such changes are mostly more negative.
Eh... again, Valve being a private company plays a role here. Whoever succeeds Gabe will likely be chosen by Gabe, not some board or activist investor looking to maximize short term profit. There is much more freedom in private orgs to make long term strategic decisions.
The 10 years Valve took between Steam machines was invested (wisely, I think) in Linux infrastructure like Wayland, Wine/Proton, GPU and audio drivers, etc. None of which Valve will have to repeat.
To make my point, there was only 1.5 years between the release of the Steam Deck, and Steam Deck OLED, and that involved a new silicon tapeout.
I think it all depends on what their mission is, what bits of the larger ecosystem does valve care about or not care about, what do they want to defend or destroy. I'm tempted to say "defending the store is existential for them" but the scale of it likely gives them an extremely big comfort zone. Whatever OS the users have isn't going to affect whether they can do commerce through them unless MS does something unhinged like getting rid of win32, or as the fear around win8 that they'd centralize all windows software through their channels.
If their mission is SteamOS, then I'm tempted to say they need to expand their area of influence beyond what they're doing with linux now which seems to be strictly game related, which likely involves whittling down the major or minor reasons people don't use desktop linux (and all the projects that comprise it) in general, not just their distro. So long as they're supporting (in one way or another) the majority of windows games in a foreign environment and the richness that mods can bring they could do with improving the experience of that relative to windows and not just the happy path of what happens if the base game launches. And that's before the enigma of anti-cheat. Then find some way to reap the rewards, if any, for doing that greatly expanded workload or investment.
Read all the way to the end: "I’m getting one."
So will I, if anything to support the effort, and check it out maybe I'll buy more for my kids or something.
Yeah, I could make a similar post for similar reasons. I already have a bunch of mini-PCs I collect like Raspberry Pis. I already have a mITX build with Bazzite installed on it that I would use over a Steam Machine because it's faster. And like OP, I'd probably get anyways. Assuming price is ~800$ (with controller)
SteamCube would have honestly been such a cool name.
My current PC has a Ryzen 7 5800X and an Intel Arc B580 and I don't really have the need for a device to connect to a TV (which I also don't have), but I can definitely see the appeal to something that is both okay at games, as well as has hardware that the software works really well with, with minimal amounts of driver weirdness. Not everyone views building or buying PC as non-intimidating, especially because of how many different parts of different specs and vendors are there.
I ended up getting a MacBook (M1 Air) and an iPhone (SE 2022) for some work stuff a while back, and while my use cases of those particular devices are a bit limited, I appreciate how most of the computing and updates out of the box... just work (at least for now, in contrast I got a bit unlucky with Windows updates on my main PC so I had to mess around with where the disk partitions are, otherwise it refused to boot after one update, no idea what's up with that).
Plus maybe it'll push developers in the direction of optimize their games a bit more (or at least add more performance oriented presets).
I just hope that they won't pull an Intel Core Ultra with the pricing, which will probably make or break the Steam Machine as something that'd see widespread usage.
I have been trying for a long time to find a way to play my PC games from my couch without dragging my desktop into the living room.
Steam Link works okay but is still noticeable for some games. Docking a Steam Deck wasn’t powerful enough. Running a long HDMI cable isn’t feasible in my current living space. So I’m very intrigued to have this lower powered cube sit under my TV for when I just want to do some couch co-op or play something more casual to wind down at night.
Moonlight/Sunshine is a great steam link alternative if you have a tv box (like an apple tv or similar) that has the Moonlight app available. I'm able to run both steam and non steam games pretty well.
I'm looking for it as a general development machine, sometimes I do stuff that requires GPUs so if they can get a competitive price wrt. building a custom PC then I'm all in for the convenient form factor!
The steam machine as they’re marketing it doesn’t have enough RAM to be a proper development box once you start running IDEs, language servers and debuggers. They’d need to release a 64 or 128 gig sku, unless RAM is easily upgradable.
> [...] proper development box [...]
"Proper" is very subjective here. My entire workflow for developing 3D engines is covered a couple of times over with the announced Steam Machine specs. In fact, even when I was working in web backend development it would've covered it as a dedicated development machine and that was with some pretty pathological dev setups, language servers that ate up way too much memory, etc..
RAM is upgradable according to Linus LTT, standard modules fit. But you can't upgrade graphics/cpu AFAIR.
> But you can't upgrade graphics/cpu AFAIR
It's a laptop APU with graphics card moved to a daughter board, hence "semi-custom".
> With The Steam Machine, you might be able to finally properly run DOOM Eternal and all of the Assassin’s Creed games. That you don’t like playing.
In my experience, relation of game's hardware requirements to the amount of fun it provides is inversely proportional. Best games of all time (opinionated, of course) run well on integrated graphics.
I was kind of annoyed at the blog post for being kind of pointless until the last line, which cracked me up.
The Steam Machine is surely meant to be somewhere between mainstream and niche. It’s going to be cheap enough to be a pretty good deal for what it is, but I think those who are already PC builders (at least, those who aren’t unusually high-income and will toss money at a novelty) might not jump on it.
The device does offer some unique features you can’t get on the PC market like HDMI-CEC, which will make it a great living room box.
Perhaps it’s even being somewhat underrated as a PC on your desk type of solution. Perhaps the type of person who wants a small form factor plug and play solution at their desk and isn’t a small form factor expert would want it. The only barrier there is that SteamOS doesn’t bring you to desktop mode instantly, but in that case the user could install their own OS like Bazzite or Windows.
I'm on the fence for SM bc of 8GB GPU RAM, but I just enjoy the tsunami of chinese followups after it, so guess I just have to buy one SM to make the wave work.
>In two years, you’ll upgrade your M1 to an M4+: there’s the power upgrade.
>If CrossOver is struggling to run that particular game you so badly want to play, it’ll be buttery smooth in a few years. You’re going to do the laptop upgrade anyway regardless of the Steam Machine.
The only times I've heard the fan come on on my M4 were with games like Kerbal Space Program and Cities Skylines. Having tried both of them on a variety of MBPs over the years (both Intel and Apple Silicon) I'm not convinced they'll ever run well - in fact they both play worse on my M4. Newer games like CP2077 and No Man's Sky do put in a good showing but they've been optimized for Metal.
I don't need any of the 3 announced Steam hardware products, I already have a decent gaming PC running Steam on Ubuntu, a VR headset (Meta Quest 3, that I would not have bought had I known earlier, though it works wonders streaming PCVR games through ALVR+SteamVR) and a classic Steam controller that is more reliable that my Xbox One one on BLE.
But I do benefit from the announcement, because this means Valve will continue investing in the GNU/Linux ecosystem, and this will net more Linux players, which in turn means better software overall. Yay!
A lot of notes about Switch 2 on there.
I'm a Nintendo fanboy. Untold thousands from my wallet to their pockets over the last 30 years. NES on up, we've had every console except the virtual boy and specific iterations of mobile consoles (e.g switch but not switch lite). 512gb sd in the switch to fit all the games I bought on it. My house has 5 3DSs in it, which I maintain to this day is the best console ever made.
Sadly though I'll not spend another dollar on a Nintendo product for the rest of my life. Their aggressive targeting of emulation developers and their litigiousness in general I believe is harmful to the videogame industry.
Nintendo imo makes some of the best games ever made, but that's ok, there's still lots of other really good ones that run on my steam deck or my PC, and I can do whatever I want with the save files for those games, play them on my own terms.
The Steam Machine is "just" a normal Linux PC, with good integration.
The point is the target demographics. And, just like the Steam Deck, this is not something for power users. Most people on here know how to build a PC and install Linux with KDE on it, which is the same experience you would get with a Steam Machine.
Valve is selling this to an audience of gamers, specifically those who want an easy gaming experience on low end hardware. This is the same demographic which Sony and Microsoft are selling to.
> This is the same demographic which Sony and Microsoft are selling to.
Steam has nowhere near the same name recognition as Playstation or Xbox in the general public.
Their audience is Steam users primarily. There are millions of them and all they need to do is market it on Steam. And as Valve had said (and shown with their hardware survey), the vast majority of users have shitty PC's. People keep mentioning in these comments "oh who is this for? I just built a gaming PC with an RX 9070". Good for you. Then you don't need it. However, there are millions of Steam users who do not have a 9070.
Which means what exactly?
Inserting a random factoid does not make a sentence have a point.
Which means that you can "target" all that you want, if you don't have the dozens of millions of USD of advertising budget that your competitors have, you don't really stand a chance against the incumbents.
Steam has a larger user base than the PSN. It is not like Valve is some unknown company unheard of in Gaming circles.
Valve also does not need to advertise to the general public, the general public is not their demographic.
Kudos to the author. I also will not buy a steam Box. But i appreciate the effect it will have on gaming and Linux. I use Mint and use steam to play my games just fine. For some games it is a little bit shaky. Game company’s now have a incentive to make gaming just feel right on a Linux machine much more than like the switch deck. Just my thinking of course
if you read to the end, you'll see he gets one anyway
This list actually convinced me to get one, since I'm almost the opposite of every list item, haha.
I built myself a new gaming desktop and set up my old one next to our TV, telling myself I'd get it all situated with controllers and my large library of split screen games. We have a Shield TV for most streaming, so the desktop is pretty much only used for two things: My wife watching Chinese shows on random websites and watching movies remotely with friends over SyncLounge[0].
So while the Steam Machine is intriguing, I really don't have a good reason to buy one. That being said, I like the idea of supporting this kind of hardware development.
[0]https://github.com/synclounge/synclounge
If I purchase one it is effectively a console-killer for the big screen. The fact that the PS5 is now in the twilight phase is making me consider it. The era of exclusives is almost over as basically everything I want to play on PS5 is also available on PC.
At the same time I don't need a living room machine to be a full-fledged desktop. Nor is that desirable with kids.
I don't have much reasons to buy one either, besides "It'll be fun to thinker with" and "I want to support any company trying to make Linux go mainstream, because ultimately that'll make my desktop experience better". But those two feel more than enough, and I'm happy to open my wallet for them.
My only problem is that the hardware looks downright antiquated compared to the near-silent and power efficient setup offering world leading single-core performance that you get with a Mac Mini.
Especially when both run ARM so you have a apple(s) to apples comparison.
I still hope they succeed. Steam is the one good monopolists that will probably only go full evil when Gabe dies.
My dream would be Steam OS on hardware that can rival apple silicone.
Steam machine is x86
I'm doing a Needs-only-November - Non to 'wants'. But this was top of my list of 2026 'wants'.
Your list has hopefully saved me ~300eur thanks. And to add to your list, hopefully it comes non-upgradable, choca full of adverts, forced AI, spyware/root-kit/anti-cheat, mandatory age verified account requirements, and all the other modern essentials to make me never ever want one.
Still, it is kinda cute.
Tiny form factor, simple design and, most important, no external power brick, has already sold the Steam Machine for me.
I too won't be getting one, especially since I already have enough power at my desk.
But I love how amazing of an idea it is. A form factor and ease-of-setup of a console that brings all the best features of PC gaming (inter-generational compatibility, free multiplayer...) into the living room. And unlike with the original Steam Machine, the market is ready this time.
> The Steam Machine is not a Switch: you can’t switch to handheld mode
Buy a gamsir g8 and now you have a Switch (via steam link).
I was going through the list, nodding as I read all the reasons, agreeing with them all. But also thinking each time I’ll get one anyway. I guess I agree with the last sentence of the post haha. If anything, I’ll justify this by saying I want to choose with my money and encourage this further. But that’s really just to give me good conscience.
Fair reasons. I won't be getting one, because the Steam Deck is enough for me.
> It’s Steam, not Good Old Games. Sure it can run GOG games but the Machine is primarily designed to run Steam. You avoid purchasing from Steam like the plague, yet you’re willing to buy a Machine dedicated to it? Are you crazy?
I prioritise getting games on GOG, and the Steam Deck experience with it is good.
I use Heroic Launcher to install them, and Steam mode to play it.
> You don’t have time to fiddle with configuration. Button and trackpad mappings to get the controls just right enough to play strategy games designed to be played with keyboard and mouse will only leave you frustrated.
+1. I don't bother with configuration. If a game only supports keyboard and mouse I just play it when docked.
> Fuck it, I’m getting one.
Haha.
Why can't i just shake the feeling that Steam Machines will Valve's gateway to release Half-Life 3 as a Steam Machine title exclusive? Furthermore, HL will only be Linux exclusive, at least for the first few months to put pressure on Sony, MS and Nintendo and the GTA6 launch.
Are people who know of or remember Half Life even a significant fraction of the market anymore?
At this point it's like releasing a new Fred Astaire musical. A new episode of The Lone Ranger.
Why it feels like "this year will be the year of Linux desktop" didn't sound absurd enough for you so you went and upgraded the idea to "HL3 will be a Linux exclusive."
I just don't see that happening, aren't linux users only like 5% of the user base? Releasing their most anticipated title only for the minority would make them lose out on a hefty amount of money. The more realistic option I see is that they offer some exclusive content (add-on or cosmetics) for SteamOS users.
The only reason I know about the Steam Machine is HackerNews. Probably most people are "living under a rock" according to the author.
I don't need it either. I want it so I'm going to get it. I also don't need the controller and the VR headset. But again, I am going to get it. I am the master of my life. Whatever I say goes. I am getting all 3. But I don't need them. No, no no.
@dang The title is now "Why I Don't Need a Steam Machine"
It ultimately comes down to the price. If it’s low enough, I’ll get Steam machine as a living room indie box and for streaming from my main desktop. I would feel bad for overpaying for 8 gigs of VRAM in 2026.
I don't really need one either, but I'll buy it anyway, mostly because I want to support vendors who make hacker-friendly hardware and software. For that reason alone, Valve gets my money.
Ok so the author isn't a target demographic for this. I don't really see why it's warranted a blog post
I think the author could use another TV if they have the space. Solves both the missing HDMI input and the "TV in use" error. :)
> You don’t have time to play games anyway.
Yes. Games are a complete waste of time and the sooner you realize it the better
Why reading a fantasy book would be less of a waste of time?
Most modern "AAA" games are meant to hook you up. It's an addictive cycle, most games are also only on steam which means steam owns you. It has profiled you, your voice chats, your friends, your game habits, etc. If you'd think for even a minute, you'd realize what a shitshow modern gaming is. It's nothing but a masqueraded attempt for mass surveillance from steam and other major game stores
To me it seems you are conflicting multiplayer games with single player games. The two have very different business incentives.
And Steam has my gaming habits because I want it to have them: it provides good tips in what to buy.
Steam has none of my voice chats and the last 260 hours I played videogames, it doesn't think I even logged in. My favorite game of the year barely shows up on my profile page because I use it through a mod.
I agree on multiplayer games, but that's due to the business, single player games don't have that incentive.
And Steam is full of beautiful work of arts in the indie game space
> You can’t buy this without buying the Steam Controller.
Oh, this is ugly! Haven't noticed this being mentioned anywhere.
AFAIK one Steam Controller is included in the purchase of a Steam Machine already. Also, I find it unlikely that the Steam Machine is not going to work with other controllers, since the SteamOS works with pretty much any controller out there (Xbox, PS4/PS5, Switch, 8-bit Do, you name it).
Not sure what the author meant here. Maybe they're referring for the fact that you can't purchase a cheaper version of Steam Machine without the Steam Controller.
I need a VR linux environment. With eye tracking letting you use a mouse without taking your hands off the keyboard.
I don't want my kids to spend too much time on screens. They already watch too much cartoons.
Have a limited screen time per-day rule, and let them choose whether they want to spend it watching cartoons OR playing video games.
Funnily Valve doesn’t need it either to some extent. It’s almost like a pet project. They won’t sell it retail, no ads, so certainly won’t even hurt the sales of Switch 2 and PS5. Mind you the former just sold more than 10m units in less than 6 months.
Secondly Valve makes disgusting amount of money from the lootboxes and the unregulated underage gambling market (estimated billions) which are almost a 0 effort system. Running an API and releasing a new lootbox every 2nd month or so are peanuts compared to the development, manifacturing, and distribution of the Steam Machine
Tail risk for valve is they get locked out of the windows ecosystem via the App Store or some other trusted computing shenanigans. Steam hardware running windows games on an open OS mitigates this.
all that matters is price. if it's a bang-for-your-buck (similar to the steamdeck) then i'm in. I don't have a PC in my current living space and it takes up as much space as my laptop, if not less.
Couldn't relate to a single argument.
I'm considering moving my desktop to SteamOS, not just for gaming (web browsing, streaming from my jellyfin server). I have a laptop for embedded programming (and anything I do that needs serious compute I run on a cloud VM), I have dedicated hardware for Home Assistant.
I want to quit windows, but I'm always disappointed by running Linux that isn't backed by a company. I think Valve might be one of the companies I trust the most.
I kinda wonder if someone will start selling productivity tools on steam...
Is the steam machine coming with open source drivers or specifications?
For those who didn't read til the end:
> Fuck it, I'm getting one.
reading the comments on HN, guess most did not really read to the end. lol
Let me be that guy: we live in a time of collapse, for both the environment and international relationships – do we really need more gaming rigs?
Yes. Because if unrelated industries decide to give up then a theoretical collapse becomes an unavoidable economic collapse. And history has proven that war usually follows economic collapses.
So literally the best thing Valve could do here is carry on like usual.
Notice that I'm not discussing economic collapse, I'm mentioning the environment and international relationships (e.g. the apparent return from the rule of international right we've had since WW2, however partially and imperfectly, to the rule of international anarchy we've seen in Europe since the birth of feodalism).
Notice that I'm also not criticizing Valve. They're doing what they feel is best for their business.
What I'm disagreeing with is enthusiasm for buying yet another gaming rig in the above circumstances.
> Notice that I'm not discussing economic collapse, I'm mentioning the environment and international relationships
Noice how I also discussed international relationships. I didn’t miss your point.
> Notice that I'm also not criticizing Valve. They're doing what they feel is best for their business. What I'm disagreeing with is enthusiasm for buying yet another gaming rig in the above circumstances.
My same rebuttal applies.
OK, but do you expect Valve to do anything about first two problems you have mentioned? (OK, saying “our next console will be a bunch of refurbished PCs we have sourced from local junkyard” would be a flex)
Both the CPU and GPU Valve chose for the Steam Machine are cut down ("binned") versions of silicon AMD likely had lying around. The CPU is a laptop part which didn't sell in huge volume and has had the GPU fused off. The GPU has several CUs disabled compared to top-of-the-line. This indicates to me that Valve is using silicon which AMD either couldn't use otherwise, or couldn't sell for top price.
You can see the alternative with PS5 and Xbox, where AMD designed and produced large bespoke custom chips. Versions of these chips which don't fully pass QA could have a few defective cores or CUs fused off and used elsewhere, but we don't see that outside of some very niche Chinese motherboards.
Valve's approach instead allows them to re-use standard PC components which just didn't quite meet muster.
So in effect, "our next console will be a bunch of refurbished PCs we have sourced from local junkyard" is exactly what Valve did here.
No, I don't.
But the OP didn't discuss "Should Valve do something about the sorry state of the world", it discussed whether we individually should buy a Steam Machine.
It sure beats giving up, laying on the ground and letting the moss reclaim us.
You don't "need" most of what you own, conditioned upon mere survival. Liberal democracy allows people to improve their lives and pursue what makes them happy.
Degrowth as a cure is worse than what it is purported to treat. Itwould hurt people. Developing countries improve their standard of living by exporting stuff to us, by consuming resources, etc. The poorest countries trade the least and its not an enviable lifestyle.
We are not headed for collapse by any metric. Fuel use in China has plateaued despite growing energy demand, owing to rapid solar scaling. Matter of time before we catch up. IPCC says climate will suck and be expensive, not apocalyptic. And finally, global population growth is projected to completely stall. The fertility rate is already stagnant in the 1st world. Innovation also improves efficiency, allowing us to build with less energy and resources over time.
We grow only BC of immigration, and immigrants are not coming to consume less, but to consume more.
I'm not going to discuss the details, because we obviously draw different conclusions from the same numbers. For me, the answer is going to be "I'm not going to buy a Steam Machine, not because it's a bad tech, but because it doesn't make my life better, and it uses resources that I'm not sure we can afford."
(Nice nickname, btw. French or Belgian?)
French adjacent.
I don't think it will make my life better today. One day though I will be in the market for a modern console to play next-gen, because that's fun.
My conspiracy theory: Microsoft knew the Steam Machine was coming and decided to get out of the console market.
me too, i just hope the pricing is reasonable. the big draw for me is a reliable, small unit that i can relegate gaming to, without building my own PC.
Fully agree with the sentiments here in terms of "you might not need this", and for many of us the Steam Machine is not really marketed toward us in particular. I think it's not marketed away from us, though.
For me, I am considering it, depending on the price. I already have a small form factor PC that I run Bazzite on in the living room. The problem? There's some kind of hardware issue. Unfortunately, it might be the Intel CPU. It results in sporadic issues including periods of time where memory errors spike like crazy. I love the PC ecosystem for what it is, but here's the problem: without redundant parts, I can't reasonably isolate the problem to figure out what to RMA. It's not abundantly clear, because the problem is sporadic. I'd need to replace parts one-by-one. So I've just been working around it for now.
But the Steam Machine is sold as a single unit, and it already runs the KDE desktop that I'm used to using on my TV. (It's better than you'd expect, with a couple of tweaks, though I hope the SteamOS version that ships with the Steam Machine moves to a Wayland session as my TV supports HDR.) If I have a problem with the hardware, I can send it back to Valve. Even better, I kind of actually trust Valve.
So for me it totally depends on price point. I don't game all that much on TV, but I do want a box connected to my TV that can game. Plus, bonus points if it's able to achieve a better idle power usage than my current small form factor build. Plus, even better, the device ships with native HDMI CEC support, which is fairly rare on PC graphics cards, requiring very frustrating workarounds. This is clearly a potential killer option for people who want a living room PC setup for their TV.
(Aside: if you are wondering what the experience with using a living room PC with KDE is like, it's not too bad. You have to crank up the scale factor a bit, but with a Bluetooth keyboard and touchpad device, it's pretty easy to use. There's no easy way to support receiving Chromecasts, though, though there is Shanocast, but it's a bit sketchy. Funny enough, I believe Apple's AirPlay is less locked down and you can use UxPlay to receive AirPlay requests. I mostly just use Librewolf with some quality of life extensions like YouTube Shorts Block and Sponsorblock and the like. It is a little clunky but my previous weapon of choice was Android TV and it has been horrifically enshittified, so those devices are basically ewaste now.)
If they manage an under $800 price point and deliver on performance, thermals and noise, you simply won't be able to beat this thing in almost any dimension buying parts new to make a build yourself. It is significantly smaller than anything you can build, and it theoretically packs significant power per inch in the sub-$1000 price point. As long as you don't mind paying Valve, I absolutely think this is a potential killer deal for many use cases that will involve barely ever actually using Steam.
(But, despite the end of this article, it is definitely worth some consideration whether you really need one. Even if you ultimately decide you want it anyways :P)
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I think working on "AGI" is more important than getting a Steam Machine or any other console these days.
What are you doing on Hacker News? You should be working on "AGI".
This may come as a surprise to you, but us humans need entertainment