Back in 2004, while bored in my college dorm, I learned the Ian Knot from this site. I've used it ever since. A few weeks ago, my 10 year old decided it was time to learn how to tie his shoes "dad's way". I was pleasantly surprised to see the site was still up, so I used it to help teach him how to do it.
Also been exclusively Ian Knot every since. Lightening fast and consistent.
Funny anecdote: In college when I learned it, the woman I was with was leaving my place and when she was putting on her shoes I said "wait I gotta show you something" and dropped to one knee to tie my shoes. She looked terrified until I clarified it was my tying my shoes quickly and not a proposal.
I also learned it back in 2004 and it was one of the single most useful skills I have ever acquired. My shoes never come untied anymore. Coaching baseball, when a kid's shoe comes untied, I re-tie it for them with the Ian knot. Life changing skill.
Amongst all of the technological advances available to us, tying my shoes using the Ian Knot is the one thing that will get people to accuse me of witchcraft.
I've tried a couple of these "better" shoe tying knots and have never had the patience to learn them to the point they become habitual. So I can spend 2 seconds tying a shoelace the way I learned when I was 5 years old, or I can spend 5 minutes fumbling with some other knot. I go with what works for me. Optimizing the time I spend tying my shoes just isn't anywhere on the radar of things that would have a worthwhile ROI.
I haven't mastered the Ian's knot (the super fast one) yet, but I've been tying the "Ian's Secure Knot" [1] for years. I try to teach parents on my kid's soccer team as well, because in my experience, half use the "standard shoelace knot" which is mediocre at staying tied, and the other half tie the granny version of the same, which comes out in about 5 minutes.
This seems very much like the kind of thing that a kid probably learns and is drilled on in late preschool in Japan, and given how much time must be wasted daily by even grown adults re-tying shoes it makes me wish we taught kids practical skills like this. (Yes, I know scouts learn knot-tying in general, but a lot of kids don't even get to do scouting).
P.S. to be honest, I've started buying and installing the sets of elastic laces with buckles (they're only a couple bucks) every time I get a new pair of shoes, so I don't tie shoes anymore, except for things like soccer cleats.
> Yes, I know scouts learn knot-tying in general, but a lot of kids don't even get to do scouting
But do knot scouts learn to tie their shoes correctly? I never did scouting but I have done sailing, and was interested in knot tying as a kid, but shoe tying wasn't given much attention. They certainly told us how to tie a reef/square knot properly, but no one looked at our shoes even though half of us did it wrong. In most books, you had the standard shoe tie if you are lucky, but nothing more.
Ian seems to be the only one who takes shoe tying seriously, even though it may be the most tied knot in the world. I have the Ashley Book of Knots, widely considered the reference on knot tying, if a little dated, and shoe tying only occupies a single page out of 600. Interestingly, a knot analogous to the "Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot" is mentioned (#1219) but despite being, I think, the best in the book, its existence is merely acknowledged.
If you have trouble with toe nail trauma (all chipped for instance) check out heel lock lacing. It will prevent your toes to hit against the front of the shoes.
One example here [0] for running shoes but it's useful also for normal walking. Ian of course has his own entry about this [1]
I found this to be incredibly helpful for blister prevention. Only downside is your laces have to be pretty long since this takes up a couple more inches on each side.
It always brings a smile to my face when it gets posted. I’ve used it to learn ways of lacing shoes, but it’s not even about that, it’s a reminder of what the internet used to be.
> I also have to admit that it’s really not the best for small knots or when having to knot with limited lace, mostly due to the required finger setup.
On the other hand, when the length of lace is limited and you need to maintain tension (e.g. wrapping gifts, tying ice skates) the Ian knot is better than many other methods. Although nobody ever asked, I imagine every onlooker is wondering how I can maintain tension in the lace without asking someone else to put a finger on the first overhand knot. It's because of my finger placement when I tie the knot!
I've been tying my shoes using the Ian knot for years (decades??) now. Makes your laces sit a bit funny compared to regular, but my shoes never come untied by accident. Highly recommend trying it out if you have this problem even occasionally. Once you have the muscle memory down, it's a nice minor life upgrade.
Makes your laces sit a bit funny compared to regular
The 'sit a bit funny' issue is the classic symptom of 'the granny knot'.
If you have inadvertently been tying granny knots, you may notice:
1) Instead of the bows hanging to the sides, they naturally want to hang along the length of your show (one pointing diagonally away from you, and the other diagonally towards you).
2) Your shoelaces get undone often, unless you do a double knot.
The fix (whether you tie your bow using the regular way, bunny ears, or Ian Knot) is to reverse the direction of your initial knot.
If you watch this video I made, you will see that the Ian Knot (when done according to the instructions on Ian's site) results in the laces sit just how they should: https://youtu.be/JaBmehtalAY
> The fix (whether you tie your bow using the regular way, bunny ears, or Ian Knot) is to reverse the direction of your initial knot.
Far too many people say that you need to reverse the direction of your main knot. This also works, of course, but it's way more difficult to unlearn then relearn the main knot. Far easier to change the direction of the initial knot. When I first learn the Ian Knot I quickly discovered I'd learnt it "backwards". So I reversed the initial knot and I've been tying it that way for close to 20 years now.
I never mastered the most common single loop method; it never made sense to me to have an asymmetrical way to tie a symmetrical knot, so I used the bunny ears with two loops, until I learned about the Ian knot with zero loops, and it's a very easy and quick way to tie your shoes.
The resulting knot is the same with all of them, however. Either the regular knot or the granny knot, depending on how you do them.
If you read his support page it's apparent why not. This is a labor of love which he can still hardly keep afloat after trying a variety of income sources such as ads and direct sponsorships.
I've devoted two decades of mostly altruistic labors to the niche topic of shoelaces. I spend probably 60 hours a week continuously improving this website, answering visitors' questions, solving their shoelace problems – even granting permission for my material to be re-used by other educators.
All of this effort earns me less than 1/5 of the Australian National Minimum Wage.
I'm thinking of calling this my “Million Dollar Website” – not because it's worth a million dollars but because it has cost me a million dollars compared to what I could have earned at a regular job (based on an average Australian annual wage of $50,000 × 25+ years).
Any support that you can give will be gratefully accepted and warmly appreciated.
It’s a static catalog. Where’s the money in that? We need to activate the analysis of the database of widgets, to know our inventory availability. Great, huh? How about we turn that and see who’s online and then maximize our ordering function to the overstock? Great! Rinse, repeat, profit! Everyone and everything is an asset to be tracked and managed in real time through our gated and ungated websites, apps and assets… Shop-A-Tron!
I have been using the Secure variant for the last 10 years. It's effective, in that time my shoelaces have become loose precisely zero times, even though the knot is otherwise easy to untie.
I started using the Berluti knot last year, and it has never failed me. It takes a bit longer to tie, but it has never failed me. It is also easy to get undone without making another knot out of itself.
The Secure variant seems to be a slightly easier/quicker knot. I might give it a try. :)
My advice is to use paracord for shoelaces. It's cheap, lasts forever, can be cut to any length, ties well, etc. It lasts so long you can take it off your old worn shoes and put it on your new shoes. I find that the shoelaces that come with shoes typically don't last very long, are too short, etc.
I've made a couple with the Kumihimo technique, using cheap embroidery thread. The texture is similar to paracord, but you get your own pick of colors and patterns. I'm surprised at how durable they are.
A few years ago I discovered that many brands (but I like Skechers) make "hands-free" shoes, with no laces or velcro, just hidden elastic, and a stiff heel so that you can literally step into your shoes and walk away without ever touching them. They actually fit better than laced shoes.
If you prefer a non-disposable shoe, look into Chelsea boots made using a Goodyear welt, such as from one of the many shoemakers in the Northampton area of England. A pair if taken care of will last you a lifetime.
I like Cheaney and Crocket & Jones. Church's is popular but a little overpriced compared to the others. The classic Chelsea boot has a leather sole but both Cheaney and Crocket & Jones make them with rubber soles which are much more hard wearing. Crocket & Jones make them with Dainite soles which last years and cope with all weathers.
Expect to pay £400-450 for a new pair (more in London) and remember to get some conditioning cream like Saphir Crème which is to be used regularly. You can wax them if you like but not necessary for caring purposes. When the soles finally go you can get them resoled at the factory they were made in for around £100 (less than a pair of trainers). My Dainite soles have lasted over 3 years of daily use.
If you are close to the area you can go to their factory shops and often find shoes with slight imperfections for half the price.
I love this site so much. I learned that there are two typologies of shoelace knots -- one falls apart instantly (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm), and the other is as secure as a double knot. I also learned the fast way to tie shoes, https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm. The latter is fun, I have used it every day for decades and people are always amazed when you teach them.
I found this looking for a more secure knot (I did; Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot). What I wasn't expecting was how strange it would be to be as skilled at tying my shoelaces as a four-year-old.
I learned how to my shoes the bunny ears way, then as an adult skipped the standard knot and went straight to the Ian knot. Still can't tie my shoes with the standard knot :)
It is the best way to tie shoelaces (and similarly knotted things). It takes a while to get used to, but it’s so worth it. It works! Unlike every other shoelace knot you’ve ever tied.
Unlike most normal people in the world, I was never taught how to tie shoelaces. And not because my parents and siblings did not try; but because I was too obstinate and wanted to do it my way! Needless to say I implemented a complicated knot that takes way too long and and a source of mockery. But it is my knot and I like it.
I’ve used this site twice, most recently last week for Lock Lacing. I had to upsize my Fuego dance shoes because they don't come in wide sizes. Consequently the heels were slightly loose; everything else was fine. Customer service recommended Lock Lacing which worked and tightened the heel ever so slightly but enough.
Ian's knot saved me some time in the past decade or so.
Is there a knot with two settings for tying and releasing? Releasing it to a point that allows taking off the shoe and pulling somewhere else to fix it firmly again?
It must be adjustable because laces get longer over time.
The lug bowtie and lug knotted styles can be combined to leave an area with almost no pressure on it. It's useful if you find yourself with an injured foot on day two of a long hike.
I use the two loop knot.. The beauty of this knot is that it doesnt come undone as easily and i can remove/wear my shoes without entying shoelaces. It has come undone only 3-4 times in past 2 years for me. Very effective
I was in my teens when I discovered this site. I am now forty. I have been tying my shoes quicker than the average person literally for the better half of my life.
Back in 2004, while bored in my college dorm, I learned the Ian Knot from this site. I've used it ever since. A few weeks ago, my 10 year old decided it was time to learn how to tie his shoes "dad's way". I was pleasantly surprised to see the site was still up, so I used it to help teach him how to do it.
Also been exclusively Ian Knot every since. Lightening fast and consistent.
Funny anecdote: In college when I learned it, the woman I was with was leaving my place and when she was putting on her shoes I said "wait I gotta show you something" and dropped to one knee to tie my shoes. She looked terrified until I clarified it was my tying my shoes quickly and not a proposal.
Same. I also use Ian's Secure Knot in places where you'd use a double-knot https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
I also use this one everyday. I learned the quick one back in the day, but I value never ever having to stop and re-tie my laces.
This is the one I use, too. Learned this and the near-instant one, but this is actually really practical and produces a nice and even knot. Winner!
There's an awesome book Ian put out with laces on the cover and illustrations of all his lacing and knot suggestions. Potential future gift!
I also learned it back in 2004 and it was one of the single most useful skills I have ever acquired. My shoes never come untied anymore. Coaching baseball, when a kid's shoe comes untied, I re-tie it for them with the Ian knot. Life changing skill.
The Ian knot is just as likely to come untied the knot formed by the regular method or the bunny ear method. Because all result in the same knot.
If you noticed a change after you switched knots, you might have been inadvertently creating granny knots:
https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm
Amongst all of the technological advances available to us, tying my shoes using the Ian Knot is the one thing that will get people to accuse me of witchcraft.
I've tried a couple of these "better" shoe tying knots and have never had the patience to learn them to the point they become habitual. So I can spend 2 seconds tying a shoelace the way I learned when I was 5 years old, or I can spend 5 minutes fumbling with some other knot. I go with what works for me. Optimizing the time I spend tying my shoes just isn't anywhere on the radar of things that would have a worthwhile ROI.
I've been 100% slip-ons for years.
There are laces designed to convert a shoe meant for regular laces into a slip-on, such as https://www.locklaces.com/
I've used them and they worked pretty well.
I haven't mastered the Ian's knot (the super fast one) yet, but I've been tying the "Ian's Secure Knot" [1] for years. I try to teach parents on my kid's soccer team as well, because in my experience, half use the "standard shoelace knot" which is mediocre at staying tied, and the other half tie the granny version of the same, which comes out in about 5 minutes.
This seems very much like the kind of thing that a kid probably learns and is drilled on in late preschool in Japan, and given how much time must be wasted daily by even grown adults re-tying shoes it makes me wish we taught kids practical skills like this. (Yes, I know scouts learn knot-tying in general, but a lot of kids don't even get to do scouting).
P.S. to be honest, I've started buying and installing the sets of elastic laces with buckles (they're only a couple bucks) every time I get a new pair of shoes, so I don't tie shoes anymore, except for things like soccer cleats.
1. https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/secureknot.htm
> Yes, I know scouts learn knot-tying in general, but a lot of kids don't even get to do scouting
But do knot scouts learn to tie their shoes correctly? I never did scouting but I have done sailing, and was interested in knot tying as a kid, but shoe tying wasn't given much attention. They certainly told us how to tie a reef/square knot properly, but no one looked at our shoes even though half of us did it wrong. In most books, you had the standard shoe tie if you are lucky, but nothing more.
Ian seems to be the only one who takes shoe tying seriously, even though it may be the most tied knot in the world. I have the Ashley Book of Knots, widely considered the reference on knot tying, if a little dated, and shoe tying only occupies a single page out of 600. Interestingly, a knot analogous to the "Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot" is mentioned (#1219) but despite being, I think, the best in the book, its existence is merely acknowledged.
I've been using the secure knot for years now. It's vastly superior to the standard shoelace knot.
If you have trouble with toe nail trauma (all chipped for instance) check out heel lock lacing. It will prevent your toes to hit against the front of the shoes.
One example here [0] for running shoes but it's useful also for normal walking. Ian of course has his own entry about this [1]
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBbc6TackDQ&t=68s [1] https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/locklacing.htm
I found this to be incredibly helpful for blister prevention. Only downside is your laces have to be pretty long since this takes up a couple more inches on each side.
you lot are obsessed. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+...
It always brings a smile to my face when it gets posted. I’ve used it to learn ways of lacing shoes, but it’s not even about that, it’s a reminder of what the internet used to be.
The searchbox at the bottom of the page here is more accessible:
https://hn.algolia.com/?query=fieggen.com
Optimizing things that people do even think about optimizing and showing off the "better way" is completely in the spirit of Hacker News.
That's the reason I am here ;)
This also from the group that likes to preach about "premature optimization"
A classic never dies.
Sir, do you wear shoes?
I recently wrote an article about the Ian Knot, and what I’ve done with all the extra time I’ve gained from learning it:
https://blog.klungo.no/2025/12/31/two-years-of-the-ian-knot/
> I also have to admit that it’s really not the best for small knots or when having to knot with limited lace, mostly due to the required finger setup.
On the other hand, when the length of lace is limited and you need to maintain tension (e.g. wrapping gifts, tying ice skates) the Ian knot is better than many other methods. Although nobody ever asked, I imagine every onlooker is wondering how I can maintain tension in the lace without asking someone else to put a finger on the first overhand knot. It's because of my finger placement when I tie the knot!
Hadn't considered that! Do you use the left middle finger to apply the tension?
Definitely a neat time-save, even more so if the person you'd otherwise have to ask is far away or busy and the wait would've extra been long!
I daily drive this knot since my mid thirties. Fast, and practically never comes undone.
I've been tying my shoes using the Ian knot for years (decades??) now. Makes your laces sit a bit funny compared to regular, but my shoes never come untied by accident. Highly recommend trying it out if you have this problem even occasionally. Once you have the muscle memory down, it's a nice minor life upgrade.
If you have inadvertently been tying granny knots, you may notice:
1) Instead of the bows hanging to the sides, they naturally want to hang along the length of your show (one pointing diagonally away from you, and the other diagonally towards you).
2) Your shoelaces get undone often, unless you do a double knot.
The fix (whether you tie your bow using the regular way, bunny ears, or Ian Knot) is to reverse the direction of your initial knot.
If you watch this video I made, you will see that the Ian Knot (when done according to the instructions on Ian's site) results in the laces sit just how they should: https://youtu.be/JaBmehtalAY
> The fix (whether you tie your bow using the regular way, bunny ears, or Ian Knot) is to reverse the direction of your initial knot.
Far too many people say that you need to reverse the direction of your main knot. This also works, of course, but it's way more difficult to unlearn then relearn the main knot. Far easier to change the direction of the initial knot. When I first learn the Ian Knot I quickly discovered I'd learnt it "backwards". So I reversed the initial knot and I've been tying it that way for close to 20 years now.
The end result is the same as the regular way of tying it. perhaps you are doing a https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/crossedianknot.htm by mistake
As a way to keep kids from accidentally making a granny knot instead, which will not stay tied, it's pretty decent.
I never mastered the most common single loop method; it never made sense to me to have an asymmetrical way to tie a symmetrical knot, so I used the bunny ears with two loops, until I learned about the Ian knot with zero loops, and it's a very easy and quick way to tie your shoes.
The resulting knot is the same with all of them, however. Either the regular knot or the granny knot, depending on how you do them.
Why isn't all internet like this website?
If you read his support page it's apparent why not. This is a labor of love which he can still hardly keep afloat after trying a variety of income sources such as ads and direct sponsorships.
https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/support.htm
Why Support Ian?
I've devoted two decades of mostly altruistic labors to the niche topic of shoelaces. I spend probably 60 hours a week continuously improving this website, answering visitors' questions, solving their shoelace problems – even granting permission for my material to be re-used by other educators.
All of this effort earns me less than 1/5 of the Australian National Minimum Wage.
I'm thinking of calling this my “Million Dollar Website” – not because it's worth a million dollars but because it has cost me a million dollars compared to what I could have earned at a regular job (based on an average Australian annual wage of $50,000 × 25+ years).
Any support that you can give will be gratefully accepted and warmly appreciated.
It’s a static catalog. Where’s the money in that? We need to activate the analysis of the database of widgets, to know our inventory availability. Great, huh? How about we turn that and see who’s online and then maximize our ordering function to the overstock? Great! Rinse, repeat, profit! Everyone and everything is an asset to be tracked and managed in real time through our gated and ungated websites, apps and assets… Shop-A-Tron!
Because of the greed that killed everything good that internet once had.
What the Internet should be.
So are your guides, by the way. Thank you for writing them.
Some previous discussions:
2023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37646964
"Secure" 2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42155457
"Ian" 2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27728002
"Granny" 2021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26867300
"CIA" 2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24091391
I have been using the Secure variant for the last 10 years. It's effective, in that time my shoelaces have become loose precisely zero times, even though the knot is otherwise easy to untie.
I started using the Berluti knot last year, and it has never failed me. It takes a bit longer to tie, but it has never failed me. It is also easy to get undone without making another knot out of itself.
The Secure variant seems to be a slightly easier/quicker knot. I might give it a try. :)
My advice is to use paracord for shoelaces. It's cheap, lasts forever, can be cut to any length, ties well, etc. It lasts so long you can take it off your old worn shoes and put it on your new shoes. I find that the shoelaces that come with shoes typically don't last very long, are too short, etc.
I've made a couple with the Kumihimo technique, using cheap embroidery thread. The texture is similar to paracord, but you get your own pick of colors and patterns. I'm surprised at how durable they are.
A few years ago I discovered that many brands (but I like Skechers) make "hands-free" shoes, with no laces or velcro, just hidden elastic, and a stiff heel so that you can literally step into your shoes and walk away without ever touching them. They actually fit better than laced shoes.
Changed my life. I recommend highly.
If you prefer a non-disposable shoe, look into Chelsea boots made using a Goodyear welt, such as from one of the many shoemakers in the Northampton area of England. A pair if taken care of will last you a lifetime.
I’ve had a search and they look amazing.
Any recommended brands?
Joseph Cheaney, whilst expensive, will save you £££ in the long run (and theyre a classy shoe)
I like Cheaney and Crocket & Jones. Church's is popular but a little overpriced compared to the others. The classic Chelsea boot has a leather sole but both Cheaney and Crocket & Jones make them with rubber soles which are much more hard wearing. Crocket & Jones make them with Dainite soles which last years and cope with all weathers.
Expect to pay £400-450 for a new pair (more in London) and remember to get some conditioning cream like Saphir Crème which is to be used regularly. You can wax them if you like but not necessary for caring purposes. When the soles finally go you can get them resoled at the factory they were made in for around £100 (less than a pair of trainers). My Dainite soles have lasted over 3 years of daily use.
If you are close to the area you can go to their factory shops and often find shoes with slight imperfections for half the price.
Recently interviews by Chris Person in Aftermath: https://aftermath.site/ians-shoelace-site-is-still-the-best-...
I love this site so much. I learned that there are two typologies of shoelace knots -- one falls apart instantly (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/grannyknot.htm), and the other is as secure as a double knot. I also learned the fast way to tie shoes, https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/ianknot.htm. The latter is fun, I have used it every day for decades and people are always amazed when you teach them.
I was fascinated by this website when I was a teenager about 17 years ago. Finding out about the Ian Knot was a "wow" moment. I've used it ever since!
I remember downloading the iOS app on my iPod Touch and being able to create your own lace pattern by dragging your fingers. Incredible stuff!
I'm very happy that the website is still up and running, preserving the same aesthetic as it had years ago.
I was like 10 years old when I learned about the Ian Knot. I'm 28 now.
I remember showing my friends at school. They were shocked how fast I could tie my shoelaces.
I don't even remember the normal way you're supposed to tie them
I guess I just googled "how to x" for literally everything when I was a kid
I found this looking for a more secure knot (I did; Ian's Secure Shoelace Knot). What I wasn't expecting was how strange it would be to be as skilled at tying my shoelaces as a four-year-old.
I use the fast normal knot for shoes I am going to tie/untie a lot and the secure knot for everything else.
I learned how to my shoes the bunny ears way, then as an adult skipped the standard knot and went straight to the Ian knot. Still can't tie my shoes with the standard knot :)
It is the best way to tie shoelaces (and similarly knotted things). It takes a while to get used to, but it’s so worth it. It works! Unlike every other shoelace knot you’ve ever tied.
Unlike most normal people in the world, I was never taught how to tie shoelaces. And not because my parents and siblings did not try; but because I was too obstinate and wanted to do it my way! Needless to say I implemented a complicated knot that takes way too long and and a source of mockery. But it is my knot and I like it.
Love this. People being stubbornly different makes the world a more interesting and tolerant place :)
I’ve used this site twice, most recently last week for Lock Lacing. I had to upsize my Fuego dance shoes because they don't come in wide sizes. Consequently the heels were slightly loose; everything else was fine. Customer service recommended Lock Lacing which worked and tightened the heel ever so slightly but enough.
This site made it my habit to search for granny knots on people's shoes on public transportation.
Ian's knot saved me some time in the past decade or so.
Is there a knot with two settings for tying and releasing? Releasing it to a point that allows taking off the shoe and pulling somewhere else to fix it firmly again?
It must be adjustable because laces get longer over time.
The lug bowtie and lug knotted styles can be combined to leave an area with almost no pressure on it. It's useful if you find yourself with an injured foot on day two of a long hike.
I use the two loop knot.. The beauty of this knot is that it doesnt come undone as easily and i can remove/wear my shoes without entying shoelaces. It has come undone only 3-4 times in past 2 years for me. Very effective
I was in my teens when I discovered this site. I am now forty. I have been tying my shoes quicker than the average person literally for the better half of my life.
Wow, this is a good flashback! Used to use patterns on his site almost 20 years ago. Pretty sure HW Bush was in office
My old adidas may be long gone, but they still live rent-free on Ian's Shoelace Site since 2009.
Reminds me of inter-dimensional cable
things like this is why the internet rocks
i love it
[flagged]
Quirky or whimsical content has always been welcome on HN.