> However, another brain region saw lower volumes – suggesting the impact cannabis has on the brain is complex and nuanced, requiring further investigation.
> there was a single brain region where we saw that higher cannabis use was actually associated with lower brain volume – the posterior cingulate, which is part of the limbic system and is implicated in processes like memory, learning, and emotion. That said, some research suggests smaller posterior cingulate volume is actually associated with better working memory, so it’s a little unclear what this means.
Is it possible that there could be two separate things going on here? Anecdotally, I can confirm that my memory when actively using it not better. If you tell me something when I'm zoned out, unless I set a reminder or something in my calendar, fat chance I'll remember the next day. However, I am more of a "occasional weekend" user and then only in the evening after my work and family obligations are taken care of for the day; very similar to how many people consume a whisky or other hard liquor in moderation.
> Life long moderate cannabis use improves memory function. That's the main takeaway from the research.
Had you forgotten already? :)
(I don't actually know if it's true; I have no idea. I was just pointing out that if "lifelong" cannabis use improves memory function, and your observation is that your memory got worse after you quit cannabis... that is not a contradiction).
I would have a very hard time accepting it to be true. They don't even strongly make the claim that it is true, they are correlating areas of the brain associated with memory as growing larger, and they are associating a larger brain area with better cognition, but later in the article indicate that there are some areas of the brain which are associated with memory which actually shrink.
I think we should question research which is overwhelmingly against our common experience of life. My memory is absolutely shot when I am consuming weed regularly. It's not particularly subtle, it is noticeably worse. I suppose there is room for a situation in which it is worse while I am heavily using, but if I were to cease maybe it will rebound and settle at a point which is better than it would have been had I not consumed any cannabis... but I don't see any reason to believe this.
it doesnt. It does things with the region of the brain that is asociated with memory we still dont understand.
Honestly in my peer group, weed or no weed, people behave mostly the same memory wise.
I see the drugs are bad crowd are out in force. I'm sure they'll treat any negative stories about drug users or the effects of drugs with just as much scepticism, prejudice, and criticism as they demonstrate here. How wonderful it must be to be powered by objective reason and free from confirmation bias.
If you read the article, I believe it is more of a "we are studying it and there is a lot to do" than "drugs are good".
I think a very important part is:
> For example, I’m interested in the effects of THC versus CBD. We don't have any of that information in the UK Biobank. Most people in this study were using cannabis quite a while ago, and cannabis at that time looked very different from what’s available today. That context really matters. It’s a complex picture.
i see your point but think about it this way. A bowl or a joint holds a certain amount. People fill mostly the same amount and dont regulate it by thc content
Of course junkies would jump on this paper, while conveniently ignoring meta-analyses.
"Longitudinal and twin studies report larger declines in IQ among cannabis users than their non-using peers but it is unclear whether these findings can be attributed to cannabis use or to genetic, mental health and environmental factors."
Yes, and I'm sure virtuous non-"junkies" such as yourself hold all articles that report or demonstrate negative findings about recreational drug use to the same exacting standards. It must be freeing to have a completely objective perspective and be free from the clouds of any ideology or bias.
If only it was legal, I'd happily replace my alcohol use with cannabis, and I don't think I'm alone in my age group. Not a big surprise that that yields improved brain health.
I don't find the effects of the two substances to be at all comparable, except perhaps that both make it somewhat easier to enjoy low-quality and/or mediocre foods and entertainment. Otherwise, the effects on ability to e.g. think quickly, socialize, be motivated, and enjoy things that require e.g. fast attention switching and working memory are just totally different.
Obviously the effects of different substances for different individuals can vary profoundly, and alcohol for me is far superior in almost every way imaginable.
Which sucks, because the long-term and next-day side effects of cannabis seem so much less bad.
You don't have to replace alcohol with anything. If its self medication you should ask yourself or an expert how to lower stress with behavior or life style change.
Apart from that a better medication would be Ketamine which is also a NMDA receptor antagonist like alcohol but not as destructive to every cell in the body. Except your bladder.
*if it does, this is just one study. That said, because it's not legal in many places, any health effects are understudied (not unlike hallicunogens). There's plenty of movements that push for more study though.
Anyway, it's legal where I live, I avoided it for a long time because of reasons but it tends to give similar relaxing / depresant effects to alcohol, minus the downsides.
I'm confident Big Alcohol is pushing hard against legalizing and developing cannabis. As is the government, because alcohol is heavily taxed and therefore a big source of income.
That said, when I walked through the main street of my city after dark, I thought replacing all the drunks with stoned would have been a major improvement.
Yeah if I were navigating a crowd of people and had to choose a substance for them to be zonked out on, marijuana would be near the top. Or MDMA, haha.
n=1 but I've picked up a daily chess hobby over the past couple of years and I noticed a big negative correlation between my chess rating and my weed use to the point that I've stopped using weed after a 20 year habit. I'm talking 100-200 elo drop that would last several days.
I'm pretty sure memory function is bad WHILE being baked but might improve long term when not under the influence. Maybe a rebound effect that makes the brain compensate for the CB1 receptor flooding.
Cannabis is a difficult thing I think for people to talk about. There are people who think it's great, there are people who don't care, and there are people think it's awful. Each will latch onto news like this and use it for what they want. I think it's great, I'm not a regular user, and really don't see it as any better or worse than any other drug, from alcohol, to food, and beyond, that people are using. Most things are fine in moderation. I don't think we need to twist ourselves over whether it's going to make us smarter, dumber, or whatever, unless we can divorce it from our personal opinions on the substance. That has been IMHO the hardest part
How can a study like this be reliably conducted in the UK where it's illegal?
> In the UK Biobank, people were asked to estimate how many times they’d used cannabis over their lifetime, choosing from a set of ranges. We ended up grouping people into no use, moderate use, and high use, based on the number of times they'd used cannabis. And of course that's an imperfect way to group people, but it did allow us to approximate dose-dependent effects.
It's "illegal", but certain places have a semi-permanent funk hanging in the air. It's almost as if it's decriminalised, but I'd expect police to grudgingly act if you're overly blatant when smoking it in the street.
It really should be legalised so that we can earn a bit of tax from its sale and reduce the amount of cash that criminals make from it (not so much the seller to the public, but all the criminal organisations that grow and smuggle it).
From the article:
> However, another brain region saw lower volumes – suggesting the impact cannabis has on the brain is complex and nuanced, requiring further investigation.
Further down:
> there was a single brain region where we saw that higher cannabis use was actually associated with lower brain volume – the posterior cingulate, which is part of the limbic system and is implicated in processes like memory, learning, and emotion. That said, some research suggests smaller posterior cingulate volume is actually associated with better working memory, so it’s a little unclear what this means.
This is the second user who didn't read the article completely. Not using cannabis obviously shows its negative effects here. QED
What is the point to have better cognition if you can't remember anything?
Anecodtal evidence I know but all the long term daily cannabis user I know seem to have memory issues.
Is it possible that there could be two separate things going on here? Anecdotally, I can confirm that my memory when actively using it not better. If you tell me something when I'm zoned out, unless I set a reminder or something in my calendar, fat chance I'll remember the next day. However, I am more of a "occasional weekend" user and then only in the evening after my work and family obligations are taken care of for the day; very similar to how many people consume a whisky or other hard liquor in moderation.
Question is if their memories just decide to remember different things they deem more important.
did the science > know some guys
> if you can't remember anything?
You didn't read the article but instead rely on your bias alone.
Life long moderate cannabis use improves memory function. That's the main takeaway from the research.
Having memory issues after quitting cannabis is not inconsistent with having good memory while using cannabis.
People have better memory while using cannabis? News to me.
The post you replied to stated:
> Life long moderate cannabis use improves memory function. That's the main takeaway from the research.
Had you forgotten already? :)
(I don't actually know if it's true; I have no idea. I was just pointing out that if "lifelong" cannabis use improves memory function, and your observation is that your memory got worse after you quit cannabis... that is not a contradiction).
I would have a very hard time accepting it to be true. They don't even strongly make the claim that it is true, they are correlating areas of the brain associated with memory as growing larger, and they are associating a larger brain area with better cognition, but later in the article indicate that there are some areas of the brain which are associated with memory which actually shrink.
I think we should question research which is overwhelmingly against our common experience of life. My memory is absolutely shot when I am consuming weed regularly. It's not particularly subtle, it is noticeably worse. I suppose there is room for a situation in which it is worse while I am heavily using, but if I were to cease maybe it will rebound and settle at a point which is better than it would have been had I not consumed any cannabis... but I don't see any reason to believe this.
No no, please use the best possible interpretation: he pre-forgot.
We all know that there is no way this is true though, let's be honest :)
it doesnt. It does things with the region of the brain that is asociated with memory we still dont understand. Honestly in my peer group, weed or no weed, people behave mostly the same memory wise.
Buying big clothes causes you to be overweight.
I see the drugs are bad crowd are out in force. I'm sure they'll treat any negative stories about drug users or the effects of drugs with just as much scepticism, prejudice, and criticism as they demonstrate here. How wonderful it must be to be powered by objective reason and free from confirmation bias.
If you read the article, I believe it is more of a "we are studying it and there is a lot to do" than "drugs are good".
I think a very important part is:
> For example, I’m interested in the effects of THC versus CBD. We don't have any of that information in the UK Biobank. Most people in this study were using cannabis quite a while ago, and cannabis at that time looked very different from what’s available today. That context really matters. It’s a complex picture.
That's kind of an odd thing to point out. If my buds are stronger, I use less of them.
It's like having a bottle of beer vs bottle of whiskey. I don't exactly imbibe them in the same way, do I?
> That's kind of an odd thing to point out.
The researcher pretty much says "it is very complex, many things are difficult to control, so we should take all this with a grain of salt".
Your answer: "What a weird thing to say, they should just ask me; I know."
That's funny.
I know plenty of people who haven't really reduced their consumption as things have gotten stronger. Their tolerance just went up.
i see your point but think about it this way. A bowl or a joint holds a certain amount. People fill mostly the same amount and dont regulate it by thc content
Drinking coffee gives positive health effects.
Drinking too much coffee and getting over-caffeinated has bad effects.
Of course junkies would jump on this paper, while conveniently ignoring meta-analyses.
"Longitudinal and twin studies report larger declines in IQ among cannabis users than their non-using peers but it is unclear whether these findings can be attributed to cannabis use or to genetic, mental health and environmental factors."
Yes, and I'm sure virtuous non-"junkies" such as yourself hold all articles that report or demonstrate negative findings about recreational drug use to the same exacting standards. It must be freeing to have a completely objective perspective and be free from the clouds of any ideology or bias.
If only it was legal, I'd happily replace my alcohol use with cannabis, and I don't think I'm alone in my age group. Not a big surprise that that yields improved brain health.
I don't find the effects of the two substances to be at all comparable, except perhaps that both make it somewhat easier to enjoy low-quality and/or mediocre foods and entertainment. Otherwise, the effects on ability to e.g. think quickly, socialize, be motivated, and enjoy things that require e.g. fast attention switching and working memory are just totally different.
Obviously the effects of different substances for different individuals can vary profoundly, and alcohol for me is far superior in almost every way imaginable.
Which sucks, because the long-term and next-day side effects of cannabis seem so much less bad.
You don't have to replace alcohol with anything. If its self medication you should ask yourself or an expert how to lower stress with behavior or life style change.
Apart from that a better medication would be Ketamine which is also a NMDA receptor antagonist like alcohol but not as destructive to every cell in the body. Except your bladder.
And pee my pants and Heil Hitler like Elon Musk? No thank you.
*if it does, this is just one study. That said, because it's not legal in many places, any health effects are understudied (not unlike hallicunogens). There's plenty of movements that push for more study though.
Anyway, it's legal where I live, I avoided it for a long time because of reasons but it tends to give similar relaxing / depresant effects to alcohol, minus the downsides.
I'm confident Big Alcohol is pushing hard against legalizing and developing cannabis. As is the government, because alcohol is heavily taxed and therefore a big source of income.
Imagine you could replace with just existing.
That said, when I walked through the main street of my city after dark, I thought replacing all the drunks with stoned would have been a major improvement.
Yeah if I were navigating a crowd of people and had to choose a substance for them to be zonked out on, marijuana would be near the top. Or MDMA, haha.
Dunno if I could handle everyone hugging me and telling me how much they loved me.
I have a hard time believing this
This appears to be a perfect case of correlation vs. causation.
Off the top of my head I can think of many socio-economic confounding variables, and also survivorship-bias.
I actually kinda like the interpretation that big brained, cognitively superior individuals are more likely to become cannabis users.
* Long term cannabis users that do not slide into something worse over time or just do not consume too much.
Yeah, maybe people able to stick to moderation over many years are just more likely to have their lives together in general.
n=1 but I've picked up a daily chess hobby over the past couple of years and I noticed a big negative correlation between my chess rating and my weed use to the point that I've stopped using weed after a 20 year habit. I'm talking 100-200 elo drop that would last several days.
I'm pretty sure memory function is bad WHILE being baked but might improve long term when not under the influence. Maybe a rebound effect that makes the brain compensate for the CB1 receptor flooding.
Cannabis is a difficult thing I think for people to talk about. There are people who think it's great, there are people who don't care, and there are people think it's awful. Each will latch onto news like this and use it for what they want. I think it's great, I'm not a regular user, and really don't see it as any better or worse than any other drug, from alcohol, to food, and beyond, that people are using. Most things are fine in moderation. I don't think we need to twist ourselves over whether it's going to make us smarter, dumber, or whatever, unless we can divorce it from our personal opinions on the substance. That has been IMHO the hardest part
Forgot to account for survivor bias.
Without accounting for that this is just bad science. It adds too many variables to make meaningful conclusions outside of feel good nonsense.
Cerebral edema?
How can a study like this be reliably conducted in the UK where it's illegal?
> In the UK Biobank, people were asked to estimate how many times they’d used cannabis over their lifetime, choosing from a set of ranges. We ended up grouping people into no use, moderate use, and high use, based on the number of times they'd used cannabis. And of course that's an imperfect way to group people, but it did allow us to approximate dose-dependent effects.
Ah ok, so completely BS as expected.
It's "illegal", but certain places have a semi-permanent funk hanging in the air. It's almost as if it's decriminalised, but I'd expect police to grudgingly act if you're overly blatant when smoking it in the street.
It really should be legalised so that we can earn a bit of tax from its sale and reduce the amount of cash that criminals make from it (not so much the seller to the public, but all the criminal organisations that grow and smuggle it).
So Devo was high!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pegs3LFf6t8
to conclude the article. We still donw know how the brain works.
users have larger brains likely to be addicted to cannabis
Unfortunately, most of it is already occupied with conspiracy theories.
You know, like the ones involving a cabal of child-trafficking, pedophilic elites whose bad acts have something to do with pizza.
It's the pedophilic elites whose bad acts have something to do with hamberders I worry about.
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