I'm struck by how oblivious the European manufacturers are, that they would pull such a user-hostile move. Autos are such a big part of the political machine in Europe they probably think they are immune from the winds of change.
But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance. Good luck selling that pricey BMW or Audi when BYD and Xiaomi cars are better value all around. It'll be like when the Datsuns first arrived in the US: derided until suddenly they were to be feared, and by then it was too late.
If I was the leader of the auto union in Germany, I´d be terrified that my company leadership was shooting itself in the foot just as the opposition were on my doorstep.
I mean they are terrified and are doing their best to manage the situation: by lobbying German state and EU to ban imports of competing products and stop EV migration so they can continue churning out worse and worse ICE cars for higher prices.
BMW is building EVs like any other serious car manufacturer and doesn't show signs of going back and throwing away all those investments. They will have to prove the worth of their mark-up though but I think it's reasonable they ask for a level playing field against Chinese state-supported manufacturers selling below or at cost with state subsidies.
> But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance
The EU doesn't need to bend to China's will.
That's why the EU signed an FTA with India last week. During the Navratri sales season (9 days long and comparable to CNY) Mercedes was selling a car every 6 minutes [0] with an average sales price of $111k before the FTA was signed as well as rolling out 12 new models of which 2 are luxury EVs. It's also why BMW is rolling out 10 new cars in India - 3 of which are luxury EVs [1].
Most other large markets are either closed to European exports or face downward Chinese pricing pressure. By giving European luxury exporters the ability to sell 250K European manufactured cars tariff free a year it helps reduce pressure by giving European exporters a China-free market, with MG Motors India being Indianized [11].
China has also insisted that it will continue to back Russia in Ukraine no matter what [2][3] and Russia has returned the favor [4][5] to China. As such, China-EU relations are essentially irreparable and MoFA aligned think tanks have pointed this out as well [6]. And this is also why the EU is only further expanding trade barriers for Chinese exports [7][8][9][10].
Everything is on the table and everything has to go. China plays the game of empires well- threaten by proxy in war, threaten by trade by having your opponents subsidies their own demise by systematic competition, without triggering the bite reflexes of systemic competition. Then get them to disintegrate by forming self-harming alliances.
> The eu - just recently, sold out its agricultural sector
1. The EU-Mercusor deal does not impact European ag in any shape or form, and much of the nativist ag discourse in the EU has been disinfo driven for years [0].
2. I clearly pointed out how the EU now has a China sized market that is paying China level prices for luxury vehicles while purchasing at Chinese luxury volumes without Chinese competition.
> Everything is on the table and everything has to go
Then go right ahead. All the barriers I pointed out are being implemented despite Trump's actions in Greenland. If the US and China are resorting to wolf warrior diplomacy, there's no point seriously engaging with either.
Either China respects the EU's positions or the EU can work with other middle powers to build both an ExChina and an ExAmerica ecosystem.
Interesting how this is yet another brand new HN account pushing this kind of narrative. 3rd time in two weeks [0] after pointing out the EU doesn't have to negotiate with China as a junior partner.
> The EU-Mercusor deal does not impact European ag in any shape or form, and much of the nativist ag discourse in the EU has been disinfo driven for years [0].
Your link proves nothing and isn't even about the Mercosur. It's about Russia exploiting farmers unrests. It has no explanation or anything really about the impact of Mercosur on European agricultural sector.
I'm convinced that importing cheaper food from south America where they don't even have a minimum hourly wage not have to follow the European regulations will kill the sovereign European agricultural sector.
> L’agriculture européenne, en revanche, risque d’être pénalisée. Selon les dernières estimations effectuées en décembre 2020 par la London School of Economics pour le compte de l’Union européenne, l’accord pourrait faire baisser jusqu’à 1,2 % sa production de viande de bœuf et de mouton, et 1 % celle de sucre.
Déjà je met en doute les 1,2%. C'est une estimation... Mais surtout, c'est pas sur la baisse de production immédiate que ça va se jouer mais sur les prix. 1kg de boeuf vendu pour 70% du prix d'un kg français, ça va pousser les prix vers le bas.
Avec 30 fermes en moins chaque jours, ça va accélérer fortement la perte de production agricole et donc notre souveraineté.
Je suis content de voir que ton lien confirme mon propos.
We've banned this account for posting abusively. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with—it will eventually get your main account banned as well.
Missed opportunity in title to make it "..Even After Heated Heated Seat Debacle.." and it would have grammatically been correct. Oh well!
Let he who is without greed, turn the other cheek to roast..
I'm struck by how oblivious the European manufacturers are, that they would pull such a user-hostile move. Autos are such a big part of the political machine in Europe they probably think they are immune from the winds of change.
But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance. Good luck selling that pricey BMW or Audi when BYD and Xiaomi cars are better value all around. It'll be like when the Datsuns first arrived in the US: derided until suddenly they were to be feared, and by then it was too late.
If I was the leader of the auto union in Germany, I´d be terrified that my company leadership was shooting itself in the foot just as the opposition were on my doorstep.
BMW is not being sold as good value. Its other car brands (Skoda) that will feel the heat.
I mean they are terrified and are doing their best to manage the situation: by lobbying German state and EU to ban imports of competing products and stop EV migration so they can continue churning out worse and worse ICE cars for higher prices.
BMW is building EVs like any other serious car manufacturer and doesn't show signs of going back and throwing away all those investments. They will have to prove the worth of their mark-up though but I think it's reasonable they ask for a level playing field against Chinese state-supported manufacturers selling below or at cost with state subsidies.
> But with the collapse of US/EU relations and the subsequent cozying up to China, it's not impossible that the Chinese demand access to the EU markets in exchange for assistance
The EU doesn't need to bend to China's will.
That's why the EU signed an FTA with India last week. During the Navratri sales season (9 days long and comparable to CNY) Mercedes was selling a car every 6 minutes [0] with an average sales price of $111k before the FTA was signed as well as rolling out 12 new models of which 2 are luxury EVs. It's also why BMW is rolling out 10 new cars in India - 3 of which are luxury EVs [1].
Most other large markets are either closed to European exports or face downward Chinese pricing pressure. By giving European luxury exporters the ability to sell 250K European manufactured cars tariff free a year it helps reduce pressure by giving European exporters a China-free market, with MG Motors India being Indianized [11].
China has also insisted that it will continue to back Russia in Ukraine no matter what [2][3] and Russia has returned the favor [4][5] to China. As such, China-EU relations are essentially irreparable and MoFA aligned think tanks have pointed this out as well [6]. And this is also why the EU is only further expanding trade barriers for Chinese exports [7][8][9][10].
[0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/india/mercedes-indias-revenue-...
[1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-08/bmw-to-ro...
[2] - https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch...
[3] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-russia-discuss-ukr...
[4] - https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russian-b...
[5] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russias-shoigu-chinas-wa...
[6] - https://fddi.fudan.edu.cn/_t2515/57/f8/c21257a743416/page.ht...
[7] - https://www.ft.com/content/5d9f1a02-a60b-418f-8c9b-b711624cd...
[8] - https://www.ft.com/content/eb677cb3-f86c-42de-b819-277bcb042...
[9] - https://www.ft.com/content/101ced1f-e03b-4353-8b1a-401d4feca...
[10] - https://www.ft.com/content/a7190e3e-8656-401e-8645-f342d1a63...
[11] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-saic-cut-stake-in...
The eu - just recently, sold out its agricultural sector, to stabilize the car industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercosur
Everything is on the table and everything has to go. China plays the game of empires well- threaten by proxy in war, threaten by trade by having your opponents subsidies their own demise by systematic competition, without triggering the bite reflexes of systemic competition. Then get them to disintegrate by forming self-harming alliances.
> The eu - just recently, sold out its agricultural sector
1. The EU-Mercusor deal does not impact European ag in any shape or form, and much of the nativist ag discourse in the EU has been disinfo driven for years [0].
2. I clearly pointed out how the EU now has a China sized market that is paying China level prices for luxury vehicles while purchasing at Chinese luxury volumes without Chinese competition.
> Everything is on the table and everything has to go
Then go right ahead. All the barriers I pointed out are being implemented despite Trump's actions in Greenland. If the US and China are resorting to wolf warrior diplomacy, there's no point seriously engaging with either.
Either China respects the EU's positions or the EU can work with other middle powers to build both an ExChina and an ExAmerica ecosystem.
[0] - https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-farmer-protest-russia...
----
Interesting how this is yet another brand new HN account pushing this kind of narrative. 3rd time in two weeks [0] after pointing out the EU doesn't have to negotiate with China as a junior partner.
[0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46856383
> The EU-Mercusor deal does not impact European ag in any shape or form, and much of the nativist ag discourse in the EU has been disinfo driven for years [0].
Your link proves nothing and isn't even about the Mercosur. It's about Russia exploiting farmers unrests. It has no explanation or anything really about the impact of Mercosur on European agricultural sector.
I'm convinced that importing cheaper food from south America where they don't even have a minimum hourly wage not have to follow the European regulations will kill the sovereign European agricultural sector.
https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2026/01/10/mercosur-...
> L’agriculture européenne, en revanche, risque d’être pénalisée. Selon les dernières estimations effectuées en décembre 2020 par la London School of Economics pour le compte de l’Union européenne, l’accord pourrait faire baisser jusqu’à 1,2 % sa production de viande de bœuf et de mouton, et 1 % celle de sucre.
Déjà je met en doute les 1,2%. C'est une estimation... Mais surtout, c'est pas sur la baisse de production immédiate que ça va se jouer mais sur les prix. 1kg de boeuf vendu pour 70% du prix d'un kg français, ça va pousser les prix vers le bas.
Avec 30 fermes en moins chaque jours, ça va accélérer fortement la perte de production agricole et donc notre souveraineté.
Je suis content de voir que ton lien confirme mon propos.
[flagged]
We've banned this account for posting abusively. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with—it will eventually get your main account banned as well.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html