> Something about the whole thing always registered to me as, like, lame—too normcore, too boring, perhaps even too cheugy to an informed and taste-driven millennial ur-consumer like me. The kinds of brands I like to buy aren’t what they sell at Costco
Good example of how people can build identities through their brand choices and purchasing habits.
It’s a foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant if another company releases a better product. Yet the crossover between brands, identities, and lifestyles is deeply held by many people.
I know some will try to turn this into a criticism of Americans, but in my travels and international business experience I wouldn’t even rank Americans in the top 10 for integrating brands and identity. In some countries I had to make a conscious effort to try to wear clothes from acceptable brands and swap my functional laptop bag for something more stylish to avoid letting my purchasing habits become a point of judgment from others. It’s actually refreshing to come back to America where as long as you’ve made some effort to look more or less appropriate for the occasion few people care about the brand of your clothes, laptop bag, or car. Some people are proud of their Audi or designer bag, but I rarely run into situations where I’d be judged for arriving in a sensible Subaru instead of a Mercedes.
> "What's great about this country is America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you can know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good.” - Andy Warhol
Unfortunately I think America is starting to lose this way a bit, with the influx of newer premium brands and the fracturing of American consumers into endless lifestyle personas. But there's still some truth left in it.
> where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest
To say that "the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest" by using Coke as an example is a significant oversimplification and is cherry picking examples to prove a point. The richest consumers buy plenty of consumer goods that the poorest cannot even dream of buying or even renting.
If there was a truffle-infused Coke with edible 24k gold flakes that cost 10x as much (and actually tasted good) you can be sure pretty much only the richest consumers would be drinking it, and that everyone who couldn't afford it would be doing everything in their power to keep up with the Joneses.
What percentage of "the poorest" own their own home or go on international trips more than once a year let alone owning multiple homes, luxury cars, and private jets?
Andy Warhol's quote is about aspiration and perceived attainment. The average person is not aspiring to drink a gold flake truffle-infused Coke.
The implication is the lack of a rigorous class hierarchy in America. Not that the rich don't live different lifestyles or consume more. But that niche luxury products were considered effete and un-American.
(Andy Warhol was almost certainly also being ironic - that the richest people in America publicly shared the same trashy taste as average Americans).
The closest analogue today might be an iPhone. Rich or poor, if you want the "best" phone you have an iPhone. Sure, there are gaudier and more expensive phones out there. But you're essentially using the same product as the richest Americans.
Personally I don't envy an "high-end" car (RR, McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, etc.), or a big mansion which needs a horde of people to run.
I personally developed a feeling for things which are at the edge of "diminishing returns" curve. I get the things which are high-end enough, but not in the "pay 3x more to get 1% more" region.
I agree, but will say that having a well-built house in a great area is extremely expensive, especially if you happen to like walkable cities along the southern California coast.
A well built house doesn't have to be big, needs multiple staff on payroll, or come with a pool.
Buying high quality things is a thing, but buying things just because they are high end and flashy is something else.
If I failed to convey what I tried to say in my first comment, let me give another examples.
Personally, I'll pay pretty penny for a bass guitar, if its build quality and features is worth it, not because of hype or it's a signature model of someone else's.
I'll buy a high end computer or a car with all (meaningful) options installed, not because I want to show off but I'll need the features or processing power.
I buy high end audio gear (for listening or recording), not because to brag about it but to use it.
And when I buy these things, I use them until they run out of steam, not until they're out of fashion.
But it's not expensive to the person getting it serviced. Finance becomes a matter of perspective at a certain level, I imagine. You buy the Lambo because it's fun to drive, you buy the clothing with the most 000's at the end of the price because it's most likely the best. It's not 'expensive,' it's just... why would you take anything less than the best everytime?
> you buy the clothing with the most 000's at the end of the price because it's most likely the best
This is very rarely the case. For tailored or custom clothing, sure, but that doesn’t end up being the most expensive. Silly designer brands with lower quality do.
Which is of course entirely besides the point. While it’s receiving service the owner will be in their Honda accord (they drive it daily), but they will always have the top trim and will probably get a new one once it’s out of warranty and needs its first “real entropy” repair.
Being rich is better than being poor. The Warhol quote has nothing to do with that fact.
As someone who started out very poor, and is now ~ 30x above that. I strongly subscribe to the idea that happiness from income is very logarithmic. The first 2-3x income was life changing. I'm talking going from eating pasta, rice and beans for most meals to fresh fruit and veg, lean cuts of meat. From renting a room in a noisy apartment with 4 other people to having my own place that was both safe and quiet. My reading list was suddenly more constrained by time instead of price or library backlog.
I suppose it's down to my starting position, a content disposition and a boring lack of imagination, but my expenses have now ~ 5x'd what they were when I was on the strugglebus, but still very modest, and I honestly can't identify any spending that would make my life better or make me happier long term.
It’s very true. When I got my first apartment on my own I was living on $3000/month (today’s dollars adjusted for inflation). Now I live on $20k and I can’t say there’s many things better about my day to day. I seem to spend a lot on things that don’t matter that much :(
You're equals in that regard, but try riding a motorcycle one day. I live in a country where lanesplitting is legal. There's nothing quite like getting passed by an extremely expensive car, and then at the traffic lights, cut in front of it.
Yeah, I switched to a bike too. Way better quality of life, and lane splitting is a godsend. In my area not allowing a bike to pass is actually a ticketable offense (though I've never actually heard of anyone getting a ticket for it). Either way, the cars know what to expect and the cars in the left-most lane hug the left side of the lane to give you room.
Thank you! I don't get how many people are just accepting of them. I do hate the pay-to-play lanes ones, but the ones I faced driving out in Illinois where there's no viable alternative and you have to produce exact change are crazy, should be illegal.
Not in LA/socal. The secret is out. There's a bunch of underground tunnels that rich and well connected people can use, that the little people can not.
The real question is what about toilets. You'd think they're all the same, but a $700 Toto bidet with a heated seat that cleans your butthole with warm water is a better experience than using toilet paper.
A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now. Even the cheapest cars can have giant screens and climate control. I don't think they are equal to a Rolls Royce, but extreme luxury has greater diminishing returns now than at any point in history.
Where I live pretty much all new houses are being built with granite counter tops and hardwood floors. Whether that's a good thing is a whole other topic ...
> Where I live pretty much all new houses are being built with granite counter tops and hardwood floors. Whether that's a good thing is a whole other topic ...
When land and labor (and fees leveraged by the city, state, etc.) are extremely expensive, the additional cost for these "luxury" items is very low by comparison. The buyers for these homes are buying everything new and it makes little sense to save $10k or so on such a visible amenity that is expensive to retrofit afterwards, on a home that costs $500k.
It is the same reason why crank windows are gone from cars. They aren't really status symbols.
And when my kitchen had to get rebuilt after a fire, I got neither. There are better synthetics for countertops and good tile is generally better for the floors. Maybe new houses are being built with granite and hardwood floors but they're not necessarily the best choices. I've known lots of people who had issues with granite (and my contractor agreed) and my hardwood was pretty beaten up even before the fire though I still have plenty of very old hardwood flooring in other less-trafficked areas of the house.
Like car colors, new house design decisions tend to be driven a lot by various current fashions because they're the low risk for purchasing reasons whether by developers or perceived resale by buyers.
Personally, I didn't care. My new color schemes are muted but not neutral. And my kitchen/dining room choices were, I think, practical for the most part.
>It is the same reason why crank windows are gone from cars. They aren't really status symbols.
That has more to do with automotive engineering being tightly coupled to academic engineering and the latter having gone through a "people are idiots, rob them of the ability to put force on anything at every opportunity" phase.
The first Teslas were poorly built expensive semi-luxury cars.
The current Model 3 and Model Y are properly built competitively priced cars with many luxury features (such as huge trunks, rear climate control, all wheel drive, etc) and gadgets (Netflix on huge touchscreen, self-driving, etc).
Both are absurd and entirely unnecessary for vehicles not on a race track. Tesla's great trick was replacing BMW as the car your neighborhood prick who wants to look upscale buys by default.
Right, there's no form of racing that is a straight line, is there.
Regardless, optimizing a pick up for 0-60 time is a strange goal, unless you have some express desire to launch 2x4s a great distance in a complicated way.
I was sad to see it discontinued. I hope the slate truck is gonna be good when it's released, cause I dig their emphasis on customization and repairability.
Me too, it's such a fantastic truck. Built like a tank, huge battery and insanely fast charging for a 400V architecture. The only thing that sucks about it is it's a bit bouncy, and the software can be stupid. But I love it.
We bought it mostly because we wanted an EV for power backup for the house. We get ice storms in the winter and it can knock out power for days, and we need to be able to keep almost 1,000 gallons of aquariums running during them. The F150 extended range has that in spades and was cheaper than the equivalent power wall system.
It's basically a whole house backup generator that we can happen to drive around.
The frunk on the F150-Lightning has not been praised enough. It's a really great truck, but having that giant storage space that locks makes it so much better than anything else out there if that's what you need.
The fascinating thing for me was that they actually had trouble selling it ( and thus the production stop and fairly aggressive incentives to sell the remaining ones off ). I really do enjoy mine and I swear I was not a truck person.
You know how I know you're not an F150 lightning owner?
It's as capable, if not more so, than your standard F150 at truck duties in everything except towing. And it's a bit of a mixed bag there, it can tow way more than a standard f150, but it cuts the range to 1/3 so you have to charge pretty often. Still, 100 miles towing 10,000 pounds is nothing to sneeze at.
I owned one, and I'd say it's as capable in truck duties as a crew-cab short-bed F-150, which is to say, not very much. Can't fit a full sheet of drywall in the bed, etc. The short-bed crew-cab F-150 is by day a carpool vehicle with room for everyone's toolboxes and by night a family minivan that can hold everyone's sports bags. That was perfect for me, I knew what I was getting, but even the gasser short-beds are pretty useless as trucks.
I mean, there is a part of me that is kinda ok lightning being one of those 'if you know, you know' kinda cars. It is still kinda weird reading this, because it does not seem to be an isolated opinion. My extended family member voiced something similar.
Yeah I didn’t get one to do “truck stuff”. I pay people to do truck stuff for me, and use my “not a truck” truck for shuttling my family around. Never saw any R1T or F150 lightning or god forbid, Hummer EV truck owners do truck stuff either.
>A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now.
Claims presented without evidence. My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened. (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher. My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving. Neither of those cars are "niche".
> My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened.
Slightly modified is doing some heavy lifting there. No 2005 Subaru wagon in stock config is anywhere close to beating a Model 3.
> (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher.
Pretty much irrelevant, because they’re still blisteringly fast up to 60 which is where most of the acceleration happens in day to day. Nobody really cares about 60-80 or 60-100.
> My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving.
What Kia is that? Even the stinger GT (which is definitely a niche car) is slower than a regular dual motor model 3.
'05 Legacy GT - turbo motor from the STI. With a tune, it was 300+ HP. MULTIPLE runs against Tesla model 3s from a stop - I won most of them.
'19 Stinger GT AWD. jb4 (piggyback) - dual model 3 couldn't pass me on track (he had more experience than I did) - he cornered a little better due to low center-of-mass, I pulled on him in the straights. Repeatedly.
> '05 Legacy GT - turbo motor from the STI. With a tune, it was 300+ HP. MULTIPLE runs against Tesla model 3s from a stop - I won most of them.
I'd believe it. I wouldn't call adding 20%+ horsepower to a car 'slightly' modifying it though. The original point still stands that your niche car (a performance version of the Subaru Legacy, with a tune on top of it) still barely manages to go toe-to-toe with a stock Model 3. If you left it stock, it would definitely be slower.
> '19 Stinger GT AWD. jb4 (piggyback) - dual model 3 couldn't pass me on track (he had more experience than I did) - he cornered a little better due to low center-of-mass, I pulled on him in the straights. Repeatedly.
So, you're proving my point? Stinger GT is already a niche car. You then threw a tune on it, which is even more niche. Compare it to a performance model 3 if you want to be fair in that case. I guarantee there's more performance model 3 owners than there are Stinger GT owners.
Another reason it's irrelevant is you just don't need the accel. Flooring a Tesla is fun once or twice, but if you floor it every chance you get I don't want to be your passenger. It's neither comfortable nor safe.
EV motors can rev insanely high, so they don't need to shift gears, while most gas engines are limited to 6-7k RPM from factory. Thus the gassers need gears that essentially torque divide to reduce RPMs. You are very confused.
I’m guessing your ‘slightly modified Subaru’ is an ‘05 Impreza STi (276 HP stock) with a chip and higher boost? That is a niche car.
It’s not particularly noteworthy that the road version a vehicle used by Subaru’s WRC team can keep up with a Tesla if you modify the ECU and add more boost.
It's close to true about personal computers. The poorest can't afford Apple computers, but you don't need to be that rich to buy Apple hardware and what's up from that in terms of mainstream status? Nothing, as far as I can see. Specific groups might want a Framework laptop or System76, but those brands are invisible to most people, including, it seems, most rich people.
(And for servers and other business machines, well, other criteria apply, but owning something in the Top500 has to count for something in terms of prestige.)
> Or go on international trips more than once a year
Or, hell, go on trips period, let alone once a year. I went a couple states over last September to visit a friend and it damn near broke my wallet. I didn't even fly either. Just drove.
There was a time when some people were paying “10x” the price of regular water for “raw” water. It was stupid but there is little chance your average Jane and Joe on the street aspired to buy that water. Of anything it was a the butt of some of their jokes.
It's not the same, but concerts used to be affordable. Now they are insane. I'm incredibly fortunate that I have a high paying job and can afford to go to shows if I wanted to but I refuse to pay these insane ticket prices. Same with sports. I no longer have any desire to go to an MLB game and get fleeced with a $15 bud light. I'll go to some minor league game in a shitty stadium with no special amenities and enjoy a baseball experience. We are at the breaking point and it's showing.
Earlier today I read how World Cup resale tickets are dropping below face value for many of the upcoming matches. This evening I read that FIFA tripled the price for the best seats. Bifurcation indeed.
the minor league stadiums i've been to in Texas were on par with the mega stadiums, just smaller (and cheaper!)
you'll get a kick out of this. one concrt hall i went to recently was charging THIRTY THREE DOLLARS for a single shot of Whistle Pig. Not even the good stuff.
> with the influx of newer premium brands and the fracturing of American consumers
I don't find it unfortunate, but I also think this is a bit of a misdiagnosis of the problem.
Coke is a bad example of this because it's mostly unchanged (and when they did try to change it, it became infamous. The "new coke" change). For almost all other american consumer products, the old time well known brands have decided to cut corners and cheap out on production. It's particularly obvious with restaurants where so many of the old chains have moved over to pre-prepped microwaved foods instead of actually cooking in house.
Americans have learned that brands can't be trusted to maintain quality. If a company can get away with it, they'll use any sort of deception to raise the price or cheap out on the ingredients. And they relied heavily on "it's X brand" to keep selling the lower quality goods.
That, IMO, is what's driven americans to brand fracture. People have learned that for a lot of clothing there's no difference between what they get from Temu and what they get from Old Navy. In fact, there's a real good chance those goods were made in the same factory.
American capitalism, for all its defects, was always a mass oriented endeavour in constrast with Continental Europe.
The mantra was sell more, more, more and more, and to do that, you need to sell things to poor people to. A French enterpreneur would be happy selling phones only for the upper middle class and above. In America the idea was to install as many landlines as possible and gain with scale.
Exactly. The deeper wisdom is that the current bifurcated US economy reveals the malaise at the heart of modern America.
When a company can make more profit by catering to the ultra-rich-only than selling a quality mass-market product at a reasonable price to masses, that says a lot about the economic segmentation of those masses.
> American capitalism, for all its defects, was always a mass oriented endeavour in constrast with Continental Europe.
I think it's important to call out that the "capitalism = more stuff" idea is a bit of historical revisionism.
Soviet leaders very specifically saw the goal of Communism was to create abundance and a post scarcity society. There are lots of quotes in particular from Khrushchev about this:
“The socialist system will outstrip capitalism in labor productivity. It will provide the people with more goods, more cultural benefits, and ensure a higher standard of living.”
“Communism is the highest form of organization of society for labor. On the basis of powerful productive forces, it ensures the highest productivity of labor and abundance of material and cultural values for the whole people.”
And it's worth pointing out that that this isn't a Soviet invention. Marx himself made it a central point that material deprivation was an ill (not a feature) of captialism:
"After the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly — only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety…”
“The possibility of securing for every member of society, by means of socialized production, an existence not only fully sufficient materially… but guaranteeing them the free development and exercise of their physical and mental faculties — this possibility is now for the first time here.”
When communist abundance failed to materialize, there was a concerted effort to reframe the promise of communism to be purely one of egalitarianism and turn overconsumption against the West as a criticism.
Soviet Ideology and Lenin in particular deturpated Marxism.
For Marx, capitalism is historically revolutionary precisely because it expands productive forces at a scale impossible under feudalism. In the Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels explicitly say the bourgeoisie created “more massive and more colossal productive forces” than earlier generations, and then argue that capitalism becomes self-contradictory because those productive forces outgrow capitalist property relations, producing crises of overproduction and destruction of wealth.
We can even say, that is a strict reading of Marx, communism is impossible if the problem of scarcity hasn't been solved before.
Marxism requires abundance as a material precondition for higher communism
> In the Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels explicitly say the bourgeoisie created “more massive and more colossal productive forces” than earlier generations, and then argue that capitalism becomes self-contradictory
and then left this thought (every system outgrows itself and becomes self-contradictory) applied to communism as an exercise to readers, which gave us Lenin and Stalin's (and Mao's) permanent bloody revolution as a pupil's halfbaked attempt at a solution, because their attempt to create communism contradicted itself way before it succeeded.
> I think it's important to call out that the "capitalism = more stuff" idea is a bit of historical revisionism.
As always with communism, there's the lofty ideals and quotes on what it should be, but then there's the contrasting reality of Continental Europe's run at communism producing way less stuff.
The irony is that, in contrast to their relative positions in the 1960s, communism (in the political-economic Marxian sense) vs capitalism (in the 2026 sense) is now more true to the original communist view above.
To wit, that end stage capitalism has become an ouroboros eating its own tail that profits off artificial scarcity, while communism's primary defect (an inability to execute economic planning at a pace, scale, and granularity required to run a country well) is now technologically-feasible.
Though the greatest enemy to communism was always the people who made up the party and their fallibility as human beings.
I bet if they wrote a 100 year plan then taking a detour through selling things to Capitalist countries is part of the plan to getting to a Marxist utopia.
Andy Warhol was an apologist for the toxic consumer culture in the US. It’s a big part of why he was so successful.
Coke is a great example. There’s no product more useless and unnecessary than that flavored fizzy sugar water. Or should I say, high fructose corn syrup water. If you drink it, why? Probably because you were indoctrinated since childhood. Same goes for pretty much all fast food. There’s nothing good or desirable about any of it unless you’ve been indoctrinated into thinking that.
Coke is amazingly popular around the entire world, though. You can go to China, India, South Africa, and find Coke for sale and selling well even though they have their own traditional beverages. Obviously sugar water isn't very good for you -- it's liquid candy, but the idea that people only drink it if they've been "indoctrinated" isn't very likely.
Modern US coke doesn't taste much like the coke I drank growing up (late 70s, early 80s, before they switched over). I remember drinking "a perfect coke" on a hot day, it tasted almost "botanical". These days, the closest thing I can find is Mexican Coke (which they sell at Costco), it's a lot dryer (less sweet) tasting to me than US coke.
Sometimes on a hot day for the short period the kid's napping I find myself at Home Depot searching for this or that tired from the work week under pressure as the clock ticks down having no idea what I'm doing and I make it to checkout tired no exhausted and I see the ice cold cooler the Coke its last moments before it's soaked with condensation open the door scan it rush to the car twist it open it screams wow sometimes there's nothing like an ice cold Coke.
One: It's terrible that you're shopping at a big box hardware retailer instead of a local hardware store and drinking high fructose mass market soda.
The other: Home Depot usually has what's needed, at a decent price, nearby. And Coke from the cooler next to the cash register is convenient, cold, and delicious.
Neither of these are wrong, and they're both worth keeping simultaneously in mind: life should be both aspirational and satisfying.
The French, I guess kinda the paragons of mom and pop (well along with Italy and Japan) still built out lots of carrefours where lots of people go shopping for stuff while still enjoying the corner pastry shop and non-chain coffee shop.
Indoctrination via decades of advertisements in clear demonstration. The imagery from this description are taken directly from coke advertisements. Either that or this is a parody.
> Indoctrination via decades of advertisements in clear demonstration. The imagery from this description are taken directly from coke advertisements. Either that or this is a parody.
How can you be so sure you've broken free of the indoctrination, when what you have written is also the product of indoctrination? The only practical difference is the banner under which the indoctrination happened under.
I suppose but fizzy drinks while not as popular today were yet pretty popular before the aftermath of WWII unleashed a vigorous advertising industry. Sure before then you had roadside painted signs (T bar style) but it’s not attributable to saturation.
People have been drinking syrup mixed with water for centuries, maybe even Millenia.
Wikipedia dates the popularity of soft drinks to the medieval middle east, but the origins of sweet fruity water are thought to be ~400 BC Persia at least.
> In some countries I had to make a conscious effort to try to wear clothes from acceptable brands and swap my functional laptop bag for something more stylish to avoid letting my purchasing habits become a point of judgment from others.
It is kind of fascinating, having come from such a culture, to realize that in the end, Americans, at least the average of the America I met, are not nearly brand conscious as I and everyone in my place supposed them to be.
Of course, America is a fucking giant and diverse place, and I think that even native born Americans have no fucking idea of how many different Americas exist, so, take my views of America with a giant grain of salt.
> It is kind of fascinating, having come from such a culture, to realize that in the end, Americans, at least the average of the America I met, are not nearly brand conscious as I and everyone in my place supposed them to be.
Speaking as an American with a formative decade overseas, I think some of that may come from the economics of international trade.
People think about a faraway place based on what gets transported and sold from there. If a country's most-visible exports are gourmet food, you'd start thinking that perhaps the average resident is a gourmand. In the case of the US, those "cultural exports" often involve branded goods, copyrighted media, food franchises, etc.
That brand was in fact created for the American market, I recall. Australians also don't talk about "throwing another shrimp on the barbie". That's another Americanism. We call them prawns.
The original usage of Gourmand was synonymous with gluttony and excess; while a gourmet might be satisfied with exquisitely prepared micro portions tucked away within an expansive plate criss crossed by a drizzle of ??, a gourmand wants the full stack pyramided to the maximal stope angle.
No, it's an observation that the first primary usage seemed to disagree (not that it did) and so it was observed that the second alt was used by the commenter above
OED has a lot to say about gourmand, Chesterfield in his 1758 letter that you quoted was saying that the Landgrave has a well stocked table .. good food and a lot of it, for he is a Gourmand. Following that Chesterfield example is a 1816 Coleridge extract from Statesman's Man that also about having a lot (but with no talent for preparation) - excess over taste:
Their best cooks have no more idea of dressing a turtle than the gourmands themselves
And, again, the first 1a primary most common usage cited in the OED is:
1. a. One who is over-fond of eating, one who eats greedily or to excess, a glutton.
It's a usage that has morphed in recent times, sure .. but as seen in the OED for a great deal of time the emphasis has always been on the quantity of good food rather than mere quality of good food.
This really gets on my nerves. ishouldstayaway provided a perfectly valid resource to support the initial statement that gourmand isn't just about quantity anymore.
> Well, you had to go to #2
This is clearly a disparaging remark meant to discredit their comment. So what if it's #2? It's a definition in multiple dictionaries. This usage warranted its own definition.
> in an American English dictionary
Same thing here- italicizing American as if it means anything. Again, both Merriam Webster and the OED carry both definitions.
> It's a usage that has morphed in recent times, sure
"Recent" being 1758. 268 years. Long enough that it doesn't warrant a nit anymore.
> the first 1a primary
Again: the non-quantity usage warranted a dictionary definition.
> Following that Chesterfield example is a 1816 Coleridge extract
Ignoring the 1804 extract before that and the extracts after it.
All in all I find this type of interaction (needing to be "correct" instead of accepting that there are multiple usages) to be extremely distasteful, leaving a sour taste in my mouth.
Gourmand still, in large parts of the English speaking world, carries large overtones of excessive eating under the guise of quality eating.
If I were to make a guess, I suspect that in your part of the world some of the French persuasion made frequent reference to those that overstack their plates as gourmands and it has since locally become synonymous with gourmet as the troll escaped them.
American here, only every heard it meaning someone who likes fancy food.
Never heard of it being a fat person, except in so far as the word is old fashioned enough to conjure the image of a fancy dressed fat person eating fancy food.
Same. "Gourmand" has always been linked to "gourmet" in my brain. However wrong according to the "dictionaries", I've seen it mean the same in colloquial use in a couple of languages I'm familiar with.
Your original “well actually” is incorrect by your own admission. The correct statement is “a gourmand [was] [in some sense] the opposite of a gourmet”.
Not as punchy. I can see why you exaggerated, but as a fellow pedant I can’t approve of the misinformation.
> Of course, America is a fucking giant and diverse place, and I think that even native born Americans have no fucking idea of how many different Americas exist, so, take my views of America with a giant grain of salt.
I've been around a good amount of the US and yeah, being very judgey on brands just doesn't seem to be much of a thing. Maybe if I hung around rich people it'd be different, but I do know some rich people and they typically don't seem to give a shit either.
> Maybe if I hung around rich people it'd be different
Most rich people I know not only dont give a shit a brands, they actively judge you negatively for buying expensive brands that they see as non-utilitarian. Not even a tech thing either, maybe it's because chicago has a generally blue collar vibe and it would be different with rich people on the coasts, but I know many rich people and almost all of them judge for wasting money and buying into advertising psyops
> Of course, America is a fucking giant and diverse place, and I think that even native born Americans have no fucking idea of how many different Americas exist, so, take my views of America with a giant grain of salt.
And yet somehow, with first 3/4 of this sentence, you've given a more accurate story about America than is almost ever provided!
I mean there's probably some correlation between arriving at this conclusion and the fact that most Americans establishing any sort of presence outside the US are probably influencers who are being bought to wear product. Hasan, for example, has a pretty decent user base outside the US, and literally wears nothing but designer clothing (which I always found comically ironic, given his political views).
I had a recent conversation with a colleague out of SE Asia and it was surprising to me how little access they have to a diversity of product. For example, I was describing my homelab which uses a lot of Minisforum hardware (mostly due to size constraints) and I found out that, despite literally being geographically closer, said product could not be purchased in their country. So I would imagine that leads to more homogenization than what might occur in the States. But that's just my ignorant conjecture.
> foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant
But you are, yourself, defining yourself partially here through your own purchasing habits. In fact you are doing it to a far more universal degree than most of the ones you criticize.
Not that I'm immune to it, but nor do I claim to be. I think it's useful signal just like anything else. Watch: My quintessential American habit is that I wear roughly the same nondescript black T shirt, black boxer briefs, black socks, and maybe an unlabeled black hoddie that I purchase off of Amazon, mostly just sorting by ratings. If at any point I reach into my closet and the stock-flow system that is my laundry habits have deemed it such that I am actually out of stock of any of these items, I immediately go to Amazon and purchase another 6- or 4- or 12-pack. If you feel you understand me better as a person after reading all that, you probably do.
To add to your point: Someone should let the author know that considering oneself informed and taste-driven is itself cheugy. The performative aspect is the essence of cheug. So I hope he was being ironic.
Costco itself, in a way, is a sort of Wittgenstein's ladder, or Wittgenstein's warehouse, because eventually you realize that everything sold under the Kirkland label is just a de-badged top brand. If you still reach for brand names for staple goods at Costco knowing full well the Kirkland product is either the same or superior, then you know that the shadows of brand names still haunt you and occlude your sight. When you are able to escape these shadows and see the sun, then you are free.
While true concerning the quality of Kirkland brand, sometimes there are still differences that can matter. I love the Kirkland bacon but they don't sell a thick cut version (at least at my Costco) so sometimes I buy the "brand name" instead.
That's interesting. Where I live, the thing that sticks out in my mind the most about buying Kirkland bacon from Costco, is how ridiculously thick-cut it is. It's literally the thickest bacon I've ever encountered lol
I also find it funny that many of the people who look down on Costco rave about Trader Joe's and find it cool -- even though, like Kirkland, Trader Joe's products are mostly de-badged brands as well.
> I know some will try to turn this into a criticism of Americans, but in my travels and international business experience I wouldn’t even rank Americans in the top 10 for integrating brands and identity.
Can you give a few examples of those brand-centric cultures? Which product categories do they follow? I've never seen anything like this, so if I were to go to one of the places that has this culture, I should probably know about it in advance.
It sounds like you’ve just been around toxic and superficial people in your international travels and then extrapolated from them to their whole countries.
Unfortunately, they have people like that everywhere.
South Korea is one example that I have intimate knowledge of where one's consumer habits (the clothes one wears, the car one drives, the logo on one's handbag) is the ultimate signal of status.
You're automatically pre-judged by complete strangers without having to say a single word.
There are always exceptions to the rule, but it is in fact an unspoken rule over there.
The same is true in India. I live in the US, and when I visit relatives in India, they are nonplussed that I can afford a fancier car but choose to drive a Toyota. Clothes, watches, my phone brand - everything is under constant analysis and people feel free to comment on everything. I am used to it now but it gets tiring.
Nope, the US (especially the West Coast and Mountain States) is extremely non superficial in certain very odd ways:
* Almost nobody cares what kind of car you drive. The richest people I know literally don't care and drive Subarus and Toyotas and Ford pickups.
* Nobody cares about watches or jewelry.
* Clothing? It's literally Costco or Walmart for people I know who have tons of money. Unless their wives/gfs/bfs/husbands buy them something fancy for their birthday.
* Fancy wines and liquor? Wines yes, scotch yes. But it's not outrageous.
The things where you notice the money are private planes and nice houses/apartments (and multiples thereof) and art. And perhaps caring even less what people think of them.
In mountain states everything exposed to nature is just beaten into an average. The environment is so harsh it makes sense things affected aren’t much of a status symbol or at least don’t remain one for long hah.
Not just mountain states. I lived in one of the windy US deserts, and everything outside is minimally cared about because it's getting practically sand blasted several times a year.
Nobody is going to come to your funeral and tearfully wail that you had fabulous taste in handbags.
Brands may serve as camouflage when you're trying to conform, but conforming is not an identity. Your identity is based on what you create, not what you consume.
I've absolutely heard eulogies that talk about stylish grandma was up to the very end. The could go on about how she never left the house without looking like she could have been ready for a photo shoot. How she brightened every gathering she was a part of, and even had this marvelous ability to pick the perfect accessories, including -- yes -- handbags.
You seem to be conflating two things that are different -- "fabulous taste", and "conforming/consuming". Putting together and accessorizing an outfit is an act of creation. Looking sharp is usually quite the opposite of conforming.
Remember that when you dress with style, you're brightening the day of the people who look at you, like a walking work of art. Some people look at it as vain, but other people understand it's making the world a more pleasant place, just like good manners or a helping attitude. If you can appreciate the way a tasteful statue adorns a park, you can appreciate the way a tasteful outfit -- handbag included -- does the same.
But, I won't be there to see how they feel about me at my funeral. I'm here now, to see how they treat me. So yes, doing things to conform / be one of the crowd may not be what people remember you for... but it may be what impacts your daily life.
Just an observation. My computer bag is older than most of my coworkers.
The great thing about Costco is that everything they sell is reliably fine. Is it the best in the world? Probably not. But it's usually good. At worst it's average.
When I find myself reading Consumer Reports or The Wirecutter looking for "what is the best toothbrush" it's not that I actually need the best toothbrush. I'd be perfectly happy with a good toothbrush. What I'm trying to do is avoid spending a bunch of money on something that looked like a good option and turns out to be ineffective, unreliable, short-lived, or otherwise terrible. Most retailers are absolutely overrun with trash now.
Generally at Costco it's not a worry, if it's a crappy product they're not selling it.
This is how I approach Costco. Everything there will meet a minimum standard, so I'm more willing to try something new. Also, the prices will pretty much always be fair. Could I track down a better deal somewhere else? Possibly but I usually don't want to expend that extra effort to save a buck or two.
> It’s a foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant if another company releases a better product.
Perhaps those folks found certain brands regularly have decent (enought) quality and stick with them, and/or they have a personal aesthetic that they've developed that may be 'limited' to certain brands.
Some folks also don't want to go through the effort of constantly/regularly (re-)evaluating things: they've found that Brand X gives them enough quality/value, and have stopped looking.
> Some folks also don't want to go through the effort of constantly/regularly (re-)evaluating things: they've found that Brand X gives them enough quality/value, and have stopped looking
This argument stops holding water when those same people start judging other people for not also using Brand X.
> Some people are proud of their Audi or designer bag, but I rarely run into situations where I’d be judged for arriving in a sensible Subaru instead of a Mercedes.
I agree. You can go into Costco and see a store full of individuals who happen to be shopping at Costco that day, or you can go to Costco and see the same people as slaves to an imagined Costco lifestyle that you can then write about for 800 words. It says more about the author than the shoppers. This article is the worst kind of lifestyle trend engineering.
Slaves to an imagined Costco lifestyle? That's not the vibe I picked up from the article at all.
I enjoyed reading about the writer realizing he's turning into his father and taking photos of things his dad used to buy to share with his mom. He spots people that may be falling in love. Clumsy people apologizing to nobody. He counts eight different languages.
> It’s a foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant if another company releases a better product.
For those of us who grew up in the era of the "Are you a Mac or a PC" [1], many Americans are intimately familiar with the concept of brand identity.
Mac, yes. But I feel like being a "PC user" was never a coherent social identity. People use PCs for various reasons, usually pragmatic.
(Reflecting on it, I don't think I ever knew anyone who was "loyal" to Microsoft, or, dare I say, even particularly liked them as a company. At least certainly not the way people like Apple.)
In that sense, I feel as though Apple is the exception that proves the rule. There are really (almost) no other brands in Americans' everyday lives that elicit such a strong brand identity.
Yeah I could see that. I think Apple being naturally more vertically integrated (controlling the hardware and the software), was able to establish a stronger narrative around its identity early on in order to court certain types of people.
The best clothes here in Sweden, from our own Swedish brands, have no logos. And have not been for a long time. Scandinavian minimalism and quality is the best.
Asia is the one obsessed with brands. Europe is not. We care about quality.
But quality is strongly associated with brand. Showing off the logo might be taboo, but everyone can tell the difference between an IKEA kitchen and a Funkiskök.
Honest question: What does it matter if others judge you, in this time? Back in the day I understand; you'd be ostracized from the group or killed, but in this day and age people just give you a side eye or murmur at best. It really doesn't affect anything anymore. Why should we care?
Man, you must move in some shitty circles, no polite way of saying that. The other option is that its self-projection, I've met folks like that who overanalyzed to death what they thought others were thinking, usually being completely wrong since few other folks have OCDish personalities like them.
This is not how we generally work in Europe, but you were not precise of your destinations. Life in 2026 ain't some Victorian novel.
But there's a cult following for various Costco products including food. The frozen croissants, the ~$5 rotisserie chicken, the vodka. The generic clothes items, shirts, socks etc. The pizza.
I don't even have a Costco membership! Maybe this is a Socal/urban thing?
In any case, I think you're overthinking it, people love Costco.
Feudal Japan had a measurement called the "koku", which is roughly the amount of rice needed to feed a person for a year: about 330 lb. You can now buy 50 lb. of rice at Costco for $30, which is a few hours of work at minimum wage.
To me, that is a modern marvel. I don't want people to buy things that they don't need, and I also don't like the crowds, but I can't help but feel grateful for a stocked grocery store that is accessible to basically everyone—isn't that the dream?
I wish Costco were accessible to basically everyone. Among some poorer people I've got to know in the SF Bay Area, having the card and confidence in the means to use it are a mark of the middle class, an aspirational thing.
Membership is an up-front cost. That excludes those who can't part with the cash for no immediate benefit. Depending on what you buy, and what else is available around you, breakeven can take a good part of the year and a sizable number of purchases. Basically, you have to have the cash flow to play with money over time, even over a short timeline like an annual membership cycle.
Costco also sells many if not all items in relatively large quantity, so membership makes more sense for those who can afford to pre-buy and store more than they need. It's the inverse of something like a so-called dollar store, which is too often where poor people get stuck buying smaller than grocery-standard quantities at higher per-unit costs.
Of course, sometimes it makes sense to pool funds, buy together on one membership, and break packs. That costs coordination. Corner stores in poorer areas where I live often do this, with business memberships and resale certificates. At a margin, of course.
I can't pretend to truly understand what it's like not being able to afford Costco. But I've had some opportunities to hear people who see it as out of reach. And to make some trips with "guests".
I dont understand this. All Costco memberships are functionally $65 at most. How is this beyond literally anyone in America? Am I so out of touch? Why would corner stores have to pool together to get a membership when they absolutely negate the cost of the membership from the cashback? You only have to spend roughly $6,500/year for the executive membership of $130 to cost zero. That seems like something a corner store in any neighborhood wouldn't have much issue doing. As for the non store owners... $65 is the cost of one or two fast food meals. I don't believe this.
To maybe add some framing, 37% of Americans don’t have enough cash to cover a $400 unexpected expense. Obviously $400 > $65 but I think it puts some perspective on how tight cash flow is for a good chunk of the population.
You don't need to buy the membership with cash. Credit card, pay off $3-5 a week with your food savings, you'll barely pay any interest.
Also not having $400 would have to be the number after buying food with your paycheck, right? If you get the membership as part of your first food purchase, including that nice bag of rice, you'll be okay.
You’re not mathematically wrong, but you assume that everyone has a rational disciplined approach to their finances, and a reasonably stable income behind that.
And for buying in bulk (which is basically what Costco offers) to work, you need a larger amount of available cash up front, and a home with sufficient safe space for storage.
And of course you need some sort of transport to bring your bulk purchases home from the Costco, often built on cheap land away from dense housing.
> you assume that everyone has a rational disciplined approach to their finances, and a reasonably stable income behind that.
I'm not assuming that. If you get a paycheck at all you can impulse buy a $65 thing.
> And for buying in bulk (which is basically what Costco offers) to work, you need a larger amount of available cash up front, and a home with sufficient safe space for storage.
The bag of rice is cheap and compact, along with many other options. Your upfront need can be covered by your normal spend.
Yes it does need a mild amount of safety.
> transport
For sure, but I was responding about the $65 issue.
> > you assume that everyone has a rational disciplined approach to their finances, and a reasonably stable income behind that.
> I'm not assuming that. If you get a paycheck at all you can impulse buy a $65 thing.
Not to buy the membership, but to gain meaningful benefit from it afterwards by buying in bulk in the long term, despite the greater upfront cost, motivation, planning, etc. that that requires.
You’re probably a professional with a good wage. The working poor are too poor to have much and too rich to be poor and get benefits. They are cashflow constrained.
When I coached little league, we had parents who walked miles to games because the bus fare (1.50) for 3-4 people would push them over the edge. Vulture companies like dollar general exist because they sell consumer staples in smaller quantities at a slightly lower price, but much higher unit cost.
Costco uses an upfront membership to allow you to buy large units of products at a consistently good price. The consumer needs excess cash flow for it to work. Saving on toilet paper doesn’t work if I can’t make my car payment.
I’ve never been “need to stop at the food bank” poor thankfully, but I have been “dinner this week is rice and 50¢ frozen pot pies”, “living with 4 other people to make rent”, “boss I need more hours or I literally can’t afford the gas to come to work for the hours you’ve scheduled me” poor. And even in those times one of my very first purchases was a BJs membership (Costco like club) because it was absolutely cheaper to buy a lot of my groceries and food stuffs that way.
It is possible to be too poor to afford a membership club (even Sam’s Club). But you absolutely do not need to be a “professional with a good wage” to afford it or benefit from it.
Why are the dollar stores “vulture companies”? Costco and Trader Joes only puts their stores in or on the border of higher income neighborhoods. At least Dollar General is willing to locate their stores near poorer people.
Dollar General now has a similar profit margin to Costco:
No, you are not out of touch. Functionally everyone can afford a Costco membership and buy staples in bulk at a higher upfront but lower unit costs. The GP's comment about a family of four walking miles to a Little League game because they couldn't afford the bus fare is an extreme outlier.
There's a large overlap between people who cannot "afford" to shop at Costco and people who spend hundreds of dollars a month on scratch-offs. Whether or not someone shops at Costco is mostly a function of preferences and behavioral choices, not dollars.
These are not out of luck people if this is a long term
Problem. These are people who are chronically bad at allocating resources.
Even if they could afford the 65$ membership (yes anyone car). They couldn’t afford the per package goods. Is this even alluring to them? They demonstrate poor basic economic understanding.
Okay I'm really curious, where do you live and what are you eating for a "fast food meal"? That's at least 10x what I pay for a fast food meal, and although I know California and other places are expensive, I wouldn't have guessed they are that expensive.
These days Taco Bell for two people will easily hit $15-20 and that’s at the drive through. If you’re crazy enough to order it through door dash, that’s closer to $40
I've had friends homeless recently, Costco was the basis of the best choices of their poverty finance even when living out of a car.
I think it's accessible to even the poorest people who work in the US, but it doesn't mean it's cheap for them or worthwhile without a home/reasonable commute.
Time is a major commodity for people working 2 or more jobs and an hour and back commute to Costco is often not worth it.
not only is the membership cost up front, but because you're buying in bulk, the cost of the food is also up front; that doesn't work if you're literally living 2-week paycheck to paycheck. Nearly 40% of Americans have less than $500 in savings.
> $65 is the cost of one or two fast food meals ... Am I so out of touch?
When I had less than $50 in savings and lived paycheck to paycheck, I still had a BJs membership. When I was growing up living in a single teacher income home and “K-Mart” was our luxury store, we had a BJs membership. Sales clubs like Costco and BJs are absolutely affordable even to the working poor.
In San Diego, we have a discount store called GTM that buys Costco closeouts and scratch-and-dent items and resells them for less. It has a loyal base of bargain shoppers, and it feels a bit like a treasure hunt.
You can buy normal or even individual quantities, like a single roll of paper towels, with no membership required. I imagine other big cities have similar stores, probably in lower-income areas, that fill a similar role.
Costo makes almost no money on food sale, and almost all of its profit from the membership fee. It's required for their business model, which is VERY friendly for its employees. This is an example of capitalism done right.
This is such a misconception/oversimplification that drives me nuts and it is so common. It isn’t at all supported by their filings.
In past years their profits match the approximate amount of revenue from their memberships (which, I suspect is the origin of this idea), although recently their profit exceeds their membership revenue by a fair margin (total membership revenue was less than half of operating income for 2025). Membership is not what causes them to be profitable since the “cost” of the membership is operating the rest of the business. You can’t separate retail sales from membership sales since they mutually require each other in the business model. If they got rid of their retail sales (which are, in fact, more profitable than membership sales on their own) then the membership would be worthless. The reverse is not true.
It's true that in recent years profits have exceeded membership revenue, but that still comprises 67% of total profit. It is still a requirement for their business model to operate, unless you're arguing that they would be comfortable with significant losses in the lean years, which I would contest.
There's 1655 calories in a pound of uncooked rice, so with 330lbs you are sitting at ~1500 calories a day for a whole year.
You wouldn't starve to death, but you'd absolutely want to supplement (both for more calories and probably for vitamins). But also you'd be eating that rice every single day pretty much, how else are you getting through that much rice?
Wouldn't you also need at least a little protein? and some lipids? For example, there is a lot more in Soylent than just rice flour. Oh, are we talking brown rice or white rice? That seems like it might make a huge difference, not only in nutrition, but also pooping.
For commoners in Feudal Japan, it would’ve been unpolished/brown rice, refining rice was labor intensive/expensive. When accessibility of white rice spread due to automation making it much cheaper, in the 1800s, it caused a huge epidemic of beriberi, which had once been a rich man’s disease, and killed a huge number of people.
There are famous stories of prisoners in Japanese prisons during the World Wars being healthier than their captors because they ate refined, white rice instead of the brown rice for the prisoners.
the biggest problem with white rice is the lack of fiber, the somewhat high glycemic index, and it has the same problem all processed grains have: lacking potassium, iron and magnesium. these days though white rice and other processed grains all come with added b-vitamins (before that started at the turn of the century, there were massive b-vitamin deficiencies popping up everywhere). white rice has less protein than most grains but at 9% of calories, that's still not bad though some variety wouldn't hurt.
don't get me wrong, white rice isn't the worst thing in your diet but i think it's great to diversify with some whole grains and lots of beans (a real superfood), many of which can be had for 2$ to 3$ per 2k calories.
The lameness is that brown rice is more expensive than white rice because it is a healthy choice.
I know, price is what the market will bear blah blah. There is just something that feels fundamentally wrong about a product cheaper to produce being sold at a higher price purely because its the better choice for your health.
Another cute principle in that category is convenience pricing. The 0.5L cola bottle with resealable twist cap is more expensive per liter than the 0.25L cans, purely because the bottle is more convenient to use on the go.
> There is just something that feels fundamentally wrong about a product cheaper to produce being sold at a higher price purely because its the better choice for your health.
You just described almost all food sold in the US. The cheapest stuff is pure garbage. The more you try to escape the preprocessed garbage and get back to the raw, unprocessed, untreated, food, the more you pay. Insane, but true. (And then we wonder why Americans are so unhealthy.)
Err (150kg)(3500kcal/kg) = (5.25E5 kcal/E_koku)/(365 days) = ~1500 kcal/day. So not great working in the field or fighting for the average guy. But I feel like this is one of those things where the average lord didn't count how many fish you caught or what have you. So I bet if you had miso, fish, and like some vegetables from the outside your house, you would probably survive alright.
EDIT: the actual point is that it's probably not literal. Ease of quantifying and transporting dried rice over long distances without refrigeration probably had a lot of how they ended up with a Koku as useful measurement.
> As a rule of thumb, one koku was considered a sufficient quantity of rice to feed one person for one year.
I assume "sufficient rice" means it needs to be supplemented, and this is supported by the footnote as well:
> Apparently 1.8 koku (1 koku and 8 to) was actually required for nourishment by a man each year, according to the conventional wisdom documented in a "home code" (kakun [ja]) of a certain merchant family in the Edo period.
Sometimes I do that and figure out how much time I work for something. For many, that is only one or two days of work to get a year of minimum calories.
If I decided to go full homestead and grow and process this myself, how long would that take? Way, way, WAY more than 2 days. Scale and specialization has done some amazing things and this is a great example of it.
That’s because the rice sold in Japan is generally the highest quality, so it makes sense that it costs more than the rice exported overseas to places like American supermarkets and Costco. The rice you see in US stores is usually a lower grade than what stays in Japan, though not necessarily “low quality.” Japan has historically been pretty selective about what gets exported versus kept for domestic consumption.
I would guess that rice is also a lot better quality
Surely also restaurants and larger vendors have ways to buy rice in bulk in Japan - maybe they just don't have the American version for of this for consumers ? Sort of like how in the US people can go to a restaurant supply store (but often dont)
I have a really mixed feeling about Costco. I hate it, I going there, I hate the crowds, the parking, the people, being hawked a credit card, a cell phone, whatever the vendors are selling. It makes me feel like a pig in a slaughterhouse waiting to get out of the store, I feel like it's the platonic form of consumption. We all go to the nice little consumption center like good piggies to get our sustenance and to get milked further (maybe I should buy some electronics!)
Yet, I keep going. I like the cranberry bread, the cheap chicken, the granola, I like not thinking about what to buy so much. I like that it's of an acceptable quality at an acceptable price. I like that I can return stuff easily without getting shit for it. I like "scoring" deals on stuff that seems like a good value.
The Costco episode on the Acquired podcast was really good, imo. It covered the trajectory from genesis till today. Highly recommended: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/costco
This is a great perspective! Somehow it makes it feel better to think of it that way, that basically this is likely as good as it can get on those two very important metrics, and that improving other things would probably cause those to decrease.
Better than optimizing for short-term shareholder value like most other firms...
This is relatable. I'm constantly baffled by the selection - half the items you find will be there in a month, the other half you will never see again, or maybe see seasonally. And then at random, they move things. Like halfway across the store.
I remember loving a Costco trip with friends at age 18, because we'd walk every aisle, and there were always so many cool things and at prices we could afford. But now as an adult with a stressful and rushed lifestyle due to children, it kills me that it's so difficult to find the 10 things I need quickly and get out, without walking every aisle. They clearly really want you to walk every aisle!
Perhaps worth noting that this Costco experience is localized. I've experienced it myself in Los Angeles when visiting, and when I lived in the Bay Area. No carts. Takes 10 minutes to get a parking spot, etc. But here in Montana Costco is very chill. The same people have worked there for 25 years and will ask you how your kids are doing. Plenty carts. Plenty parking. There is still the cell phone guy but even he can be defeated with a cheery "my company pays for my service".
Your observation makes sense given the population density and sheer number of people that the Bay Area has relative to Montana. If the Costco in where-you-are Montana weren’t chill, there would be similarities between that area and the Bay Area / LA.
The experience definitely differs. I’ve never even noticed a cell phone person in Canadian Costcos. There’s a booth off in the electronics section but no one bothers you. If you can get there on a Monday, the place seems fairly empty.
The one thing that brings me back there is their croissants. There are none other like it, and their product is a 12ct pack for a very reasonable price.
Heh, I guess you mean apart form true French ones. You won't find them anywhere else in the world, there is always something off in dough or overall process so result is different and worse.
But its true that ignorance is quite often a bliss.
It's right next to Costco, literally in the same mall.
Products are kind of shittier but they're good enough. But good enough is better for me because the rest of the experience is just better.
Walking through Sam's Club is often a breeze whereas through Costco I waddle like a penguin sandwiched between a waddle of penguins, each competing for enough space and quiet and mental clarity to score a good purchase.
It can be panic inducing.
At Sam's Club I don't even walk to a cash register. I pay with my phone and I'm out.
Do they even have Sam's Club in the PNW? I've never seen one.
But even if they did, no way am I shopping at Sam's Club for the same reason that I'm never shopping at its parent company, Walmart. Walmart arguably did more to destroy small town America than any other company, and it also treats retail employees like shit. On the other hand, Costco is one of the best places to work as a retail employee (which is why they have so little turnover).
Not shopping at Sam's Club because its parent company destroys small town America is a perfectly reasonable sociopolitical stance so I respect it. Bravo.
But if you're still shopping at Costco then you don't really care about the effects that these big box stores have on small town economies.
You're just into performative activism.
But Costco does have better working conditions so I'll give you that.
>Not shopping at Sam's Club because its parent company destroys small town America is a perfectly reasonable sociopolitical stance so I respect it. Bravo.
Not saying you specifically, but it drives me up the wall that the same people who complain big business bad have so much overlap with the people who champion government policy that makes it so only the big businesses that can amortize the fixed costs of doing business over absurd quantities can exist competitively.
> But if you're still shopping at Costco then you don't really care about the effects that these big box stores have on small town economies.
Costco operates quite differently from Walmart and therefore does not have the same effect as Walmart.
Walmart carries a much much larger selection (~150K SKUs at a SuperCenter vs ~4K SKUs at a Costco) and therefore competes with local grocery stores and pretty much any local store that carry just about everything needed for day-to-day living.
Costco aims at a much narrower demographic, and is designed for bulk buying, which most people don't do, or might only do for a few items. That's why, though its prices might be lower than a local grocery, it doesn't necessarily put the grocery store out of business.
It did not, and does not, target small towns the way Walmart did (doesn't do it anymore much because all the small businesses are gone now).
Also, Costco has a much smaller footprint across in the US -- about 600 stores vs ~4600 Walmart.
> You're just into performative activism.
No. While I'd like to do my shopping at small local stores out of principle, and I do where I have a choice, most don't exist anymore, and I can't resurrect them. Even the small "local" grocery that I do shop at, it turns out (I found out quite by accident on Wikipedia) is now owned by some larger company. That means instead of the "best" options, I have to choose the "least worst" options.
I've noticed that my local Costco business centers actually tend to have a larger selection of things like soft drinks and single-serving packaged snacks, and not in obscenely large quantities (any more than normal Costcos).
Parking is easy, the store is quiet, there are no vendors set up yet.
I have my list of things I need, I get it, get out, easy.
Idk, I’ve never felt the pull of ‘I MUST buy some new electronics’ when I walk by the tvs.
I don’t really understand the hate against ’consumption’ either. I’ve gotta eat and I’ve gotta shit, so I might as well go and by the cheap toilet paper and food. I don’t pay attention to all the other stuff.
The consumption aspect is perhaps similar, but the crowds at Costco are much, much worse (in quantity mainly) than any other grocery or big-box store I've ever been to.
I also refuse to go to Costco these days. Every once in a while my memory fades and I agree to accompany a family member or friend, and am quickly reminded why I should stick to Aldi.
I hate going there and mostly use Instacart to avoid having to, but even with a Instacart mark-up and tip it's cheaper and higher quality than most other options, happy to pay someone else to do my shopping.
Yes, genuinely. At most stores, "store brand" equates to "cheap, lower quality". Kirkland Signature is sometimes higher quality than other brands, and there are items for which they're my preferred brand.
I’ve learned from FarmTok that Costco is a big reason farms maintain proper standards even going beyond what’s required from them to keep Costco’s business.
Products get made to the standards of the pickiest customer. The condiments and sauce industry has the (((same situation)))[1] going on. If Costco went poof tomorrow the change would only be a marginal one down to the standards of the next pickiest customer worth optimizing for which is probably only a hair's breadth away. If Costco was trying to drag the standards way up then farms would raise separate stuff for them.
[1] Many condiments are Kosher not because the recipe inherently is, but because it's easy to do without much downside so doing so pencils out handily. I couldn't resist the parenthesis joke.
I’m in the same boat. The quality to terrible. No I don’t want a bunch of pumpkin seeds that you’re using as filler for products. The produce isn’t great either. A huge portion of the food is either premade factory food that’s chilled or frozen.
I don’t want a bunch of cellulose in my cheese either.
I seriously question if you’ve ever actually been to Costco. The produce is generally fine but everything else is good to great quality. I always load up with a huge wedge of parmigiano reggiano, Spanish olive oil, Barolo wine (all Kirkland branded and DOP labeled) for literally half the price of anywhere else. Everything else is generally solid too. Just looking around at the other Kirkland food I’ve got right now, their tofu, sparkling water, eggs, salted butter, huge loaf of sourdough that I freeze, are all solid. I’m struggling to think of a Kirkland signature food product I’ve been dissatisfied with.
Your local grocery store must be terrible if you think Costco has good food and produce. No, I’m not talking about wine, oil, or water. I buy those 3 things plus paper towels and toilet paper (not Kirkland toilet paper post Covid).
Everything you mentioned is a prepackaged, premade item. It’s not fresh. The Kirkland Parmesan is cut and sealed in a factory. Not cut by my local grocery or Whole Foods from a giant wheel that has the Italian markings.
The last bag of chicken breasts I got were almost the size of turkey breast and it was woody and stringy. Google if you don’t believe me.
Stuff like USDA Prime meats are substantially cheaper and same quality as anywhere else. I smoke a lot of meats though.
Organic produce is super cheap. Especially stuff like pre-cut broccoli, lettuce mixes, etc.
Protein powders, crackers, chips, organic yogurt, organic milk, organic eggs, cheese, prosciutto, etc.
Also liquor including decent beer and wine selection.
I get all this stuff, mid to high quality compared to Whole Foods or whatever grocery store. Sure, I could buy higher quality organic meats directly from the farmer over USDA Prime at Costco or more sustainable seafood and what not, but it would easily cost 3-5x.
I don't buy it alot, but people love the bakery - croissants, pies, cakes, etc. and they're high quality, comparable to most local bakeries.
The one near my office is like Mad Max Fury Road if you try to go at lunch time. Good luck getting gas much less checking out with 200+ people all trying to get back to the office.
Costco's gimmick is relieving you of choice and price shopping. They find the best stuff and don't mark it up. If Consumer is your identity yet you fear executing its labors, let Costco step in and become your denomination of consumerism, complete with tithe, proscribed usury, and communion hot dog.
I wouldn't call it a gimmick when the business has been so successful for so many years. They target educated shoppers who want to buy quality at minimum markup and not think too hard about it. If I want a TV, I know Costco will have good ones at a good price. If I need socks, same. Their food is cheaper and better than Kroger. It's just a win-win for shoppers and Costco. The only tradeoff is selection and dealing with the crowds.
What you wrote sounds intelligent but belies an ignorance of the business model.
Parallel to that, I have to imagine Costco makes a lot of money off of impulse purchases, which are induced by uncertainty in the specific items they will have available, plus mutable store layouts.
Long ago in undergrad I took a retail marketing class and we did a field trip to Costco; the GM told us it was part of their policy to rearrange parts of the store occasionally so that you had to browse the entire place to check off your shopping list. This increases the likelihood that you stumble across new products. So it’s this combination of “best price/quality without decision fatigue” plus some impulse buying that works for them. The fact that they are figuring out the price/quality trade off for you up front probably also makes it easier to impulse buy with fewer regrets.
Yea so true. Unlike many with families here, I (a single 26M) recently got a costco membership for the gas savings, whenever i stop by costco in the middle of the month, i'm looking for one or two things. This time it happened to be peanut butter, it's insane the amount of times I had to tell myself, no you dont need this, get peanut butter and leave.
Ofcourse it's very convenient that their app doesnt show what aisle things belong to so that was a fun realization.
I have seen things move for no reason, but I have seen things remain where they are for a decade. I am in south bay and go to Sunnyvale Costco. They move their bread, the oil and bunch of stuff many times, but the wine (which I do not partake) has not moved, the batteries are exactly in the same spot for decade(s), I find my dishwasher liquid exactly in the same spot, and although I do not consume it any more, but I am 100% certain the eggo waffles have not moved an inch in 2 decades. Yes toilet paper has moved but it is right adjacent and is explained by making it easier than harder to find things.
The word is treasure hunt. Stores like Costco or TJ Maxx (there are others) use what they call the treasure hunt. They design the whole experience around you walking around hunting for that new piece of treasure that you have to buy.
Yeah, this right here. I don't want to sift through thousands of options. Sometimes I just want a widget that is good quality and I don't want to get ripped off.
Exactly. Competition and choice is good for the market, but the ideal shopping experience is where there is exactly one option and it satisfies your needs.
Identifying as a rabid consumer is not a requirement of appreciating Costco. The end result of that gimmick is that it feels like they're looking out for their customers and offering them a valuable service as opposed to trying to suck them dry. Buy this blender; don't buy this blender; they don't care, just know that this is probably the one that will best meet your needs, it's the best deal you're going to find on it anywhere, and if you're unhappy with it for any reason they'll take it back.
It's a gimmick only for those who get sucked into buying things that they don't need. I've been a Costco shopper for decades, and sure have succumbed to some useless stuff, but my Costco list is 90% the same month to month. I get appalled when I see the same items on my list, that are smaller and in a pack of 1 instead of 2-4, for more money at other stores. If electronics were just like food, it would be like seeing a Macbook Pro for $2000 everywhere but it was $799 at Costco.
Some companies serve the people and some companies want people to serve them.
The sabbath was always meant for man and that makes a lot of people very angry because whatever ideological or religious lip service someone gives their behavior demonstrate they hate man, or more subtly, love mankind like dollars in their pocket, stripping humans of their humanity.
This mendacious attitude is also a major driver of enshitification.
The internet and executive social distancing has made a huge swath of people lose touch with how unique individuals are, so they treat humanity with the bigotry and coldness that the law of large numbers has lead them to, which is ultimately very mean.
> If Consumer is your identity yet you fear executing its labors
This is an interesting take. Spending hours min-maxxing the "best" combination of product/price in every given category has always been peak consumerism as an identity to me. Subreddits filled with tens of thousands of posts and strongly held groupthink opinions about why knife brand x is the best option for you to open your amazon packages, or how much you need to try the new mechanical keyboard switch collaboration, deep dives on wirecutter, waiting for the right sale, etc.
I go to costco because I don't want to do any of that for my groceries and basic home needs. I need oil for my car this weekend, and beer and burgers to hang out after I'm done with it. I don't want to spend 10 hours reading about the best 5w30 oil (or should I get 0w20?), I want a high-quality option at a fair price.
The entire activity of going to buy a few things for around the house during the weekend is something that is performed by a consumer. This guy is exactly talking about you, but you aren't seeing it because your own internal identity isn't Consumer it's something like "guy who wants a chill weekend." However in the marketplace your identity is consumer.
I think we're just arguing semantics at this point. From an economic definition you, me, and everyone else who has to exchange money for goods and services is a consumer. I'm referring to consumer culture/consumerism, which wikipedia defines in a cleaner way than I can. Buying groceries period makes you a consumer, having a weird sense of superiority because you go to a specific grocery store is consumerism.
> In contemporary consumer society, the purchase and the consumption of products have evolved beyond the mere satisfaction of basic human needs,[1] transforming into an activity that is not only economic but also cultural, social, and even identity-forming.
I'm specifically trying to make the point that identity is not just a personal experience -- the experience of how you see yourself. Identity is also a label that can be placed upon you.
Parent Comment was trying to reject the personal identity of consumer while their words actively affirming their identity as a consumer in the marketplace. You can reject the personal identity of a consumer all you want, but businesses will still judge you by your actions (how much you spend).
Parent Comment was responding to a person talking about self-identity and not the mere fact that everyone buys things. "This guy is exactly talking about you" is completely wrong, OP was not talking about every person ever.
But you can spend endless time reading forum debates about whether the OEM specification is the optimal one for any given car, complete with lab test results, which was the point I was making.
I often times walk through a local store chain and see 30 types of mustard on the shelves and I think to myself: “Who needs so much choice?”
Another thing on the top of my mind is oatmeal - I’m not a oatmeal connoisseur but I can’t taste the difference between the 5-10 types of oatmeal in the store, not that I’ve an active choice to try them. Do we need that much diversity in oatmeal choices?
One area where I'd say Costco -is- a let down is electronics. Yes, you don't always need the latest and greatest, but in my area Costco was selling 2 and 3 year old model TVs that have been superseded by the manufacturer at their (low but still retail) same prices.
Also the reason that small specialty shops, and mom-and-pop grocery, fruit, dairy, bakeries and butcher shops are largely gone. They just cannot compete with Costco and Sam's Club/Walmart's buying power.
A specialty shop can probably survive Costco much more easily than they can survive Walmart or any other conventional (American) grocery store. The grocery store carries 20 or 30 different olive oils, to select one example. Odds are all the snobbiest will find something they like... odds are even decent that in a blind taste test even the snobbiest would find something that they would be horrified to discover came from a normal grocery store.
Costco carries one or two options for a given thing, and are outright missing many things you might want. As nice as Costco is for buying things on a budget when you're going to use them up fully, I think it would be a bit of a challenge to make them your only grocery source. Doable as a sort of self-imposed challenge, no problem, there's certainly enough for that, but you'd be missing a lot of things, and/or wasting money on huge quantities of things you won't use. The quality is generally pretty decent (I may have more brand loyalty for "Kirkland" than almost any other brand) but not necessarily the most premium options. If you are the type to even consider the specialty shop in the first place you're more likely to be unsatisfied by Costco than a grocery store.
Costco is for bulk staples and commodities for me. Products that I really don't need the best of the best for, good enough is good enough and as long as I can use it all before it goes bad, I'd rather not waste more thought than needed for it. Milk, eggs, flour, flowers, microfiber towels, batteries, salt and pepper.
Then for all the niche stuff that I do truly care about, there's the specialty stores or really the farmer's market. That's where I'll indulge for the first press seasonal olive oils, all sorts of pluot/apriplums/plumpicots combinations, short shelf life wild berries, blueberry/orange/mint blossum honey and whatnot.
> Costco is for bulk staples and commodities for me
> Milk, eggs, flour, flowers, microfiber towels, batteries, salt and pepper
If you can walk out of Costco month after month with just those essentials, and never pick up any of the nice-looking and reasonably-priced goodies there, I think it's safe to say that you have the level of discipline required to be financially successful and not have to care about whether you're getting the best price per unit of whatever it is you're buying. :-)
Actual specialty shops survive just fine. There's plenty of value in real expertise. Run-of-the-mill stores selling the same commodity at a higher price are simply inefficient.
The idealized small mom-and-pop shops were largely put out of business by WWII and rationing more than anything. Supermarkets and department stores have more or less been the norm in the US since long before Wal-Mart began spreading across the country.
There are still plenty of produce stands, bakeries, and butcher shops in the country. Most of what was driven out of business were small bodega-style corner stores.
I would argue that corner stores were also driven out of business by suburbanization. If no one is within walking distance to a corner store, then it's not going to survive. Fewer people are going to drive to a corner store that costs more and stocks less than a supermarket.
They mostly exist now in a different form as gas station markets, or in dense urban areas like NYC, or some central business districts.
I will not buy coffee at Costco. I've had Costco coffee beans and it's terrible. I only buy premium beans at specialty shops and always will. The masses can drink their subpar coffee from Costco if they wish.
I remember reading costco has leverage on their supplier-producers, enough that they than enforce better standards above regulation (i.e. meats/produce), which is something mom-pop can't do.
Robinson-Patman is a bad law. Even if it were a good law, it would be effectively impossible to enforce equitably and not capriciously, which is probably why it hasn’t been.
The government telling competitive buyers and sellers which kinds of price negotiation are legal and which are not is terrible economics because it attenuates price signals.
Pre-1980's, it seems to have been enforced well enough to keep a whole lot of mom-and-pop grocery stores in business.
I'm thinking the faded-out enforcement was due to a certain 1980's President, and his administration's "Greed is God" ethos. A lot of protections for the little guy got dumped on his watch.
You don’t have to guess. Wikipedia’s cite for the claim of decline says:
Enforcement of the RPA is overseen by the Federal Trade Commission, but cases have declined since the 1980s due to the complexity of the law and the requirement to prove intended damages. Juries in recent cases claiming RPA violations have not found the defendants guilty.
> note how the modern Democratic Party... utterly failed to give a crap about the issue
From the article on the Act -
"Enforcement of the RPA has declined since the 1980s. In 2022, FTC commissioner Alvaro Bedoya endorsed a revival of enforcing the RPA in order to curb price discrimination. In April 2024, sixteen members of Congress wrote to the FTC urging for a revival of the enforcement of the Act. In December 2024, the FTC sued liquor distributor Southern Glazer's under the Act, asserting that they charged small stores more than they charged large chains. On January 17, 2025, the closing days of the Biden Administration, the FTC filed a lawsuit against PepsiCo. In May 2025, The FTC voted to dismiss the PepsiCo suit but the suit against Southern Glazer's is proceeding."
It's a low bar but the Democratic party has given more of a crap about it than anyone else.
I get the allure, but it's not for me and my partner.
We live in a small apartment. We drive a small car. The pantry has a good amount of dry bulk & canned food, but we largely shop one week at a time.
Sure, we could "lock in" on two or three foods, buy weeks worth of them at a time, and save some money. But like most people we like a bit of verity. It's just not possible to buy such massive quantities of things with nowhere to store them.
What I want is an anti-costco. More like a bodega. Still curated, maybe a larger mark-up, but smaller quantities of everything. Half loaves of bread, small bags of frozen veg, enough sugar or flour to bake just a couple batches.
Trader Joe's is probably closest to what you want. It targets single shoppers with small quantities and low prices, and it rotates products frequently to keep things interesting.
Anecdotally I feel like a lot of TJ's shoppers shift into Costco shoppers as they age up.
The nice thing about Trader Joe's is that you can be in and out in 5-10 minutes if you're just buying weekly food items. The store is modestly sized and the checkout lines are short. I'm in there about once a week.
I go to Costco once every three months or so and buy paper towels, detergent, and other consumables that have long shelf lives. I don't feel drawn to it; it's just the warehouse for boring items to buy in bulk. Their hot dog is OK. But a lifestyle? No.
We only shop regularly at three stores: Costco (every 2 weeks), TJs (random stuff that we don't need as much of or that is cheaper/better at TJs, like organic peanut butter, or sometimes their cheeses and marinated meats, oh, and the kids love TJ takis, also wine), and our local grocer (makes fresh bread daily, and we get meat, milk and eggs there because they source locally).
Maybe it varies by location, but in my experience, Whole Foods is significantly more expensive than Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's is pretty affordable. It may not be Walmart cheap, but it's no worse than Target.
I don't think this is abnormal. I think every family in my (middle class+) neighborhood does both Costco and Trader Joes. We don't have a convenient Whole Foods though.
The basic membership is $65. If all you do is get a year's worth of detergent, toilet paper, and cleaning supplies chances are that will already pay for the membership. They also have grocery items that are kinda wholesale but not really. Pantry stuff like a bag of nuts that you can go through on your own in under a week that is marked down significantly from the grocery store. Oh also olive oil is another big one for me.
The issue for many apartment-dwellers is storage. You can't store a year's worth of detergent, toilet paper, and cleaning supplies in an apartment.
Costco really incentivizes shopping in bulk, from the huge value-pack sized portions to the focus on frozen & dry goods to the super-sized carts to the anxiety-inducing shopping experience. My wife and I shoot to go no more than once a quarter, just because it's a hassle.
We found our habits (and need for Costco) changed dramatically once we moved into a home and could now put in a chest freezer and pile toilet paper rolls in a corner.
Yes I'm cognizant of that. Not everything I get there is a large item. The dishwasher detergent for example goes under the sink. Bulk is basically a two pack. Coffee also just throw it in the pantry. Ditto for other drinks and food items. And electronics. I've gotten a MacBook air from Costco only for the extended warranty they offer. Another perk is free installs which I guess doesn't apply for apartment folks but I will say I got a dishwasher from them and the install being included was on it's own worth the price.
I actually only got Costco originally when I lived in Hawaii and it's kinda a requirement there but kept it cause it's actually really nice.
It's just nice to have cause of the gas price discount and the fact that a lot of the product in US big box stores is sold at relatively sane prices with shipping and handling taken care of.
We live in a smaller place and my wife and I just piggyback off friends and end up going roughly once a quarter as well. We do have enough space for a year's worth of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, etc but even then it's often not worth the hassle of driving (we live in an urban enough area that we don't drive often), parking, fighting through lines, etc just to get stuff once a quarter.
>The basic membership is $65. If all you do is get a year's worth of detergent, toilet paper, and cleaning supplies chances are that will already pay for the membership.
Maybe savings are that large if you're comparing against regular prices at retailers, but if you wait for sales, they're as cheap, if not cheaper than Costco.
Depending on how close/far your Costco is, it could be worth it for fuel savings alone. They're generally $0.15-$0.30 / gallon cheaper than nearby gas stations. I've seen it as much as $0.60 / gallon cheaper on occasion. On top of that, their gas is Top Tier.
The simpler variant of this is to obtain a gift certificate. They are required to let you spend it it, so you can get into the store that way. Bring cash, though -- they don't love that people do this, so they don't always take credit cards on these transactions.
If you ever visit Japan, you can buy a Costco membership there for $35 and use it in the US.
I heard you can also get someone with a membership to buy you a gift card, and use the reloadable gift card for continued access. (Or buy one for yourself and then cancel your membership.)
If you do most of your grocery shopping there like me, you can get the executive membership which gives you 2% cash back on everything at the end of the year which for me makes the membership completely free. Pay with the Costco credit card and you get an additional 2%.
For the kinds of people who post on HN, the real savings of a Costco membership is that they regularly have high-end electronics, appliances, and home furnishings at $50-100 or more off retail elsewhere. Get a robot vacuum or a couch or a VR headset for $100 off and your membership's already paid for itself that year. For several years, if you need to replace a refrigerator or washing machine.
> Get a robot vacuum or a couch or a VR headset for $100 off and your membership's already paid for itself that year
I think one danger with Costco is that it encourages overconsumption. It may feel like you're saving money - but you'd save even more just not buying a robot vaccum or VR headset.
If you do the research and decide you would benefit from a robot vacuum, compare different models to decide on the best fit for your needs, and then check prices at different stores and find that it's cheapest at Costco - then yeah I'd say you're saving money. But I'd venture to guess that most robot vacuums are just bought on impulse during Black Friday sales (for example) - which I don't think counts as saving money even if you get a big discount from the MSRP.
To be fair, this isn't a problem unique to Costco. I'm guilty of buying a lot of junk on Amazon.
> If you do the research and decide you would benefit from a robot vacuum, compare different models to decide on the best fit for your needs, and then check prices at different stores and find that it's cheapest at Costco - then yeah I'd say you're saving money.
That sounds like you might well be spending more time than the money you're saving.
There was a point where two friends and I each lived alone in an apartment, and I was the only one who had a (2-door) car. We still occasionally did Costco runs.
We'd go in and walk the store - the whole store - aisle by aisle.
If I saw something like a 2-pound bag of tortellini, but thought two pounds was too big a quantity for me, I'd ask, "does anybody want to split two pounds or tortellini?" One might say yes, so we'd throw the tortellini in the shopping cart.
At the end, one person (the membership holder) would pay, and we'd divvy up the result of our haul into reusable containers, in the parking lot. One of us would then take point on itemizing the receipt, and we'd pay back the person with the membership.
In hindsight, I think we did this more to socialize than to save money, but we definitely did save money. Even as a single apartment-dweller, I bought my fair share of 24-packs of yogurt and 5-pound bags of frozen vegetables.
Growing up as a kid, we lived in the sticks and the small local grocery store had a limited produce section. My mom joined a little co-op where each person would put in the same amount of cash, but one person would make a trip to the downtown farmer's market. The purchase was split evenly between each member. Each trip a different person made the trip so the variety changed not only by what was available but by the person making the trip's preferences.
This was my introduction to collective buying and at the same time the fact there's a bigger world out there than where one lives.
This is what I did with 3 roommates in college. We saved a ton of money that way.
After college, I only had one roommate and Costco didn't work as well. The quantities for certain things are just a bit much. Buying 36 eggs for 4 adults made sense. Buying 36 eggs for 2 adults... not so much. I ended up going to Costco for toilet paper and gas, and that's it.
To this day, I'm still the "spouse" on one of those college roommates' costco memberships, LOL.
Some stuff like milk is a nonstarter. But most everything else I will go to costco for even living in a small apartment. Big costco thing of olive oil is far cheaper than olive oil anywhere else and not too hard to store. pack of trash bags again easy to store cheaper than anywhere else. likewise for dish soap, just as wide as a standard bottle but square and far cheaper. A lot of stuff with longer shelf lifes that I eat anyway in maybe 1.5-2x the volume as sold in a regular grocery stores and works out to be cheaper still somehow than that smaller volume unit at the regular grocery store. Cereal. Oats. I will even get my creatine there. My rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide. My generic allergy medicine and psuedoephedrine (which is a RACKET at CVS by the way). There's been times I've had some baking in front of me and 24 rack of eggs made sense. I also get their golf balls and golf gloves. Cheap zinc sunscreen.
> What I want is an anti-costco. More like a bodega. Still curated, maybe a larger mark-up, but smaller quantities of everything. Half loaves of bread, small bags of frozen veg, enough sugar or flour to bake just a couple batches.
This is becoming even harder to achieve nowadays, there is all this variety in size of products and more and more over the years(at least in the midwest) it seems that grocery stores want to take the small product and apply minimums to deals.
there will be an 8oz offering and a 14 oz offering, the 8 oz will be on sale but only if you buy at least 2 or 3, its incredibly frustrating.
It has incidentally made my junk food habits better though, If i see 2 for 5$ for a package of cookies with no minimum purchase, I'll likely grab a box. As soon as they apply that minimum, i am gonna be thinking "do i really wanna eat all those cookies?" instead i end up with 0.
> the 8 oz will be on sale but only if you buy at least 2 or 3, its incredibly frustrating.
Have you tested this by buying just one, and checking the price on the receipt?
I ask because someone once told me this was illegal in the US; that a shop was allowed to display the sale price only for a larger quantity, but they had to honor the same price per unit if you only bought one. (I think we were discussing produce at the time, in case that matters.) I've long wondered if that was true or just an urban legend.
My grocery store does both. If the label says "Sale: 2/$5, Was: $3.99" and I buy one, I get charged $2.50. If the label says "2/$5, Single item: $3" and I buy one, I get charged $3.
Most likely that pricing rule was/is at a more local level. The national level in the US doesn't have anything like that, but there are some states or cities or counties that can and do.
iirc yes it did not apply on purchase as well, on the label it is always also explicit about cost if not bought in those quantities(2 for 5 in any quantity is still sometimes the actual offering). I am assuming my memory is correct because its baked into my shopping experience to ensure i am reading the label correctly now.
Meijer is slowly becoming a bad offender of these types of things, Jewel has been horrifying for years, to the point where i avoid their store entirely. The final straw was this limit applied to gallons of milk.
The computers are not dumb. If you do not purchase the correct number of items, the discount is not applied. Also, if you do not have a member/loyalty account, you do not get those discounts. They now have a new level that requires you to have their app for "digital" coupons that are on top of the loyalty prices. There are many times where I don't input my number in until the very end, and then see it calculate all of the deductions. Sometimes it's not much, but I've seen it drop $30 from the "member" price discounts.
I thought this was obvious, but to spell it out: I was suggesting that they might not necessarily be programmed to apply a different price depending on quantity. An item might have a flat price of $1 each, but labeled on the shelf/bin as "special: five for $5" to encourage larger purchases.
I have personally encountered this. Meanwhile, I do not recall an example of buying a quantity smaller than suggested and being charged a higher price per item. Hence my question about labeling and law.
> Also, if you do not have a member/loyalty account, you do not get those discounts.
> An item might have a flat price of $1 each, but labeled on the shelf/bin as "special: five for $5" to encourage larger purchases.
That's not a special, that's just math. I've only ever seen that kind of nonsense from Amazon. I've seen Buy 3 for $5, while the individual is $1.99. If you buy one you pay $1.99, if you buy two you pay $3.98, but if you buy three, you end up paying $5. The receipt will show 3 @ $1.99 with a discount under the item bringing the total to $5. My store routinely has various meat offerings of Buy 1, get 2 free. If you ring up one, it shows the price. If you ring up 3, it shows all three items, but discount the cheapest two prices so you only pay for the single highest priced item.
Major chains are not going to be futzing around with gotcha tags. They know they'll be called out for it. It would be the bodega style places that I'd be suspect of that kind of shenanigans.
> I'm not talking about membership discounts.
Why not? It clearly shows two different prices. If you are not using a discount/loyalty card, you pay the full price. A lot of times I've seen when you use a line with a human checker they'll have a card on stand by (probably their own) to get the points while giving the buyer the lower prices.
> I ask because someone once told me this was illegal in the US; that a shop was allowed to display the sale price only for a larger quantity, but they had to honor the same price per unit if you only bought one.
No, WTF? That's not a thing, why would you even credit such obvious nonsense?
The thing is you can save a ton of money on a few non-food items to make it worth it. Just over-the-counter medicines save me a huge chunk of the membership fee. Then there are just random household goods: paper products, trash bags, dishwasher detergent, etc.
I've been seeing more and more of these "weird" membership perks. I had not seen the car rental until now. I've seen the vacations and other home repair/upgrade things. I'm in a perpetual disagreement with Enterprise that makes them not allow me to rent a car from them or their sub-brands (which is most of them now it seems). I might check into Costco's offerings for this summer. Thanks for the reminder.
We've been buying their "fresh" salmon (not freeze-packed) for years, until parasites started crawling out of one fillet. Statistically nothing, but the wife will never buy it again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've been doing most of my grocery shopping at Costco for more than 20 years and I still don't understand this claim. I'm only shopping for my wife and I. I have a normal sized house, normal sized pantry, normal sized car. I just don't buy things in bulk that I can't use before they spoil and I freeze all meats. Most things at Costco are barely larger than standard size. You can buy a single gallon of milk, a single quart of creamer, 18 eggs, etc. It's never once been a problem. I fill in smaller things from Aldi (like if I need a bottle of mustard). I have plenty of variety - I'm buying raw ingredients and can make a wide variety of things from them.
Shopping like you're talking about (small quantities of everything) will easily double your grocery spending, and I don't know why you would do it unless there's something about the experience you really like. If that's what you want, the chain that comes to mind is Fresh Market if you're in the eastern US, or just a local market.
Yeah bodegas and specialty grocery stores are for this and tend to be frequent in dense or HCOL areas in the US. We shop at one (also because we're food snobs and cook a lot, so we strongly prefer not getting the "Costco basics" version of our staples) for most things and likewise shop roughly weekly.
Not sure if there's anything preventing this from happening in North America but in Japan there are stores that literally just sold broken down bulk items bought at Costco.
If you're willing to drive far and are in the western US, I highly recommend WinCo foods as a place to buy all your "normal" foods in individual units for very low prices no membership required. Theyre outside the center city usually.
sounds like you just want to live in europe (or probably anywhere outside of the US?). You can typically go buy a half (or quarter) loaf of bread from a baker, and street markets let you buy all the small quantities you want by the kilo
One of the few things I miss about living in Charlotte a few years back, it's the brand spanking new Lidl stores that popped up. Like mini Costcos' with decent pricing. Bright and cheery. I must've gone there daily, not least for exploring the middle mystery isle. There were Aldis' too, but they were 2 tiers below Lidl. I've been to both chains in Germany and Aldi and Lidl seemed on par there.
The author's view is alien to me. It paints Costco as some sort of cultural retirement home. A boring place for boring people, not just a big store in a warehouse. I know that displaying brand affinity towards some companies is seen as tasteful and praiseworthy in our cultures, but I didn't realize many people extended this view to something as basic and pragmatic as the place they go to buy flour or whatever.
Costco is a store... where coffee, usually gas and most food + home goods are reliable in quality and priced well comparatively. Comparing the price of salmon fillets at Costco to Whole Foods or elsewhere is eye-opening. Would I buy clothes or furniture from Costco? No - because both are bland. The end.
If the writer wants to make it anything more than that... They are a bit too obsessed with self-image vs wasting money and, dare I say, a loser for judging others over something as classist as personal finances. Feels like the write-up is just a statement piece meant to either rattle people for engagement or make the writer feel more hip than they actually are.
Careful - even Gen-Z is looking at Kirkland clothing for certain pieces, and some furniture (like the Murphy bed I bought from them) is better when it's bland and greige
No hate on people who buy that stuff - I like more eccentric style/colors and a specific fit that I've never seen at a Costco (athletic/form fitting vs bulky). Something like pajamas pants I would consider, but otherwise I've never had luck with their clothing and their furniture usually doesn't fit the decor of my house. I did snag a great kitchen island there last year that's held up really well, but otherwise I really don't like their couches, chairs, lawn decor, etc
I've found that the price of Costco dress shirts is good enough that I can just buy 4-6 at a time, pay to get them all tailored to be form-fitting, and I'm still hitting a good value:effort.
Costco also has a decent rotation of non-Kirkland "mall" brand clothing that frequently changes (probably intentionally so you have to come in regularly). My wife is always looking to find and replace the Lucky Brand t-shirts she found once in there.
They used to be better but I stopped buying them after COVID related supply chain problems lowered the quality, at least a few years ago. Dunno if they rebounded. Supposedly they are made in the same factory as Smartwool
That seems improbable. I have bought "merino" socks from Costco and they are only something like 20% merino. I also have Smartwool socks and they are quite different.
I actually like Costco's generic black-and-orange athletic sock as a daily driver. I treat them poorly; we take off our shoes in the house but not socks. As they wear out, I throw them away; once a year I buy a new pack to refresh the losses. I use the Smartwool for activities but otherwise take good care of them. They last.
> Would I buy clothes or furniture from Costco? No - because both are bland. The end.
But they're like the gas and food at Costco - reliable in quality and comparatively well-priced. I'd buy clothes from other places if I knew where they were. Online shopping is a crapshoot and I mean that (almost) literally: they shoot crap into your mailbox. Department stores and clothes stores at the mall are overpriced for average quality. Ditto for IRL furniture stores.
I think you might be missing a subtle point about Costco, and how it fits into the social order.
Costco pledges (I have no idea if its true) that they offer goods at cost, no markup, and their profits (net income ? this is where it gets fuzzy) are simply the membership fees. In fact, I think there's a lawsuit from a Costco purchaser to get back some tariffs if Costco gets refunded tariffs.
So the idea is premium groceries (and homegoods, and tires, and pharma, etc) with zero retail markup.
Its a compelling idea, and it works because it actually seems to work. What you write is "priced well comparatively" is (according to the legend) the wholesale pricing at the quantities offered (again, I'm not sure about spoilage and some of the other details)
> I think you might be missing a subtle point about Costco
It's not a subtle point. Members buy a membership and if they shop there enough recoup the cost of the membership and more. It's their entire business model.
You'll never live like Costco people
You'll never do what ever Costco people do
Never fail like Costco people
You'll never watch your life slide out of view
And then dance and drink and screw
Because there's nothing else to do
The entire Has Been album is a great work. I have many of the songs on rotation in my daily playlist. I'm very much looking forward to his heavy metal album which lands in a few months. Obviously also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdUMICxLXhM
hacker news really needs a best-of page the way craigslist did (sorry, does), just so I can nominate this. Made me discover a great song (and a great cover), with such a wry commentary (the song's and your own comment being spot on for the original drivel). Or like we used to say, you win the internet for today.
I think the most extreme hoi polloi, kings and paupers experience I've had in the U.S is at the DMV. No matter how rich you are, you have to show up in person with everyone else, from the poorest mentally ill welfare/SSDI recipient who has to get someone to help them because they can't read the forms in any language, to the extremely wealthy. Everyone has to sit there and wait on those generic plastic chairs.
Always found Costco's largest source of profits interesting:
> Revenue from membership fees accounts for the majority of the company's profits, accounting for over 72% of the company's net operating income in fiscal years 2022 and 2023, and 65.5% in fiscal year 2024.[115][a]
The sentence you quoted from Wikipedia is nonsensical.
Comparing one revenue line to total net profit is a category error: the numerator and denominator measure different things.
In FY2024, Costco did $249.6B in net sales and collected $4.8B in membership fees. Gross margin on product sales was about $25B. That $25B is 5x the membership fee revenue. So, even if you consider membership fees as being free money, membership fees are only 16% of gross margin.
Moreover, without those product sales, the membership would be worth zero and no one would buy it.
Agreed it's a weird comparison, but I'd argue SG&A needs to come out of gross margin too for a fair comparison. You need a warehouse/staff/utilities/etc to sell merchandise, you need nothing to sell a membership (whether it's worth anything is another question of course).
In their 2025 filing, gross margin on merchandise was $30B, but SG&A cost $25B (with membership fees at $5.3B).
Note that $2.6B of those membership fees will go back to members as membership rewards, which is interesting too.
The claim could be true even if every customer is exactly like you. The implication is that Costco doesn't really make money selling stuff, they just need to roughly break even. And "breaking even" here includes paying rewards on purchases. The fact that you earn a lot of rewards doesn't stop your membership dues from contributing to Costco's bottom line.
If you have an executive membership they guarantee that you make back your membership dues. If you fall short you can just ask them to give you the difference (and then they will downgrade you to the regular membership).
But also remember regular members don't get cash back. The ratio is about 50/50. So about 40 million people pay for membership and don't get cash back.
> If you have an executive membership they guarantee that you make back your membership dues.
That's not quite their policy - their explicit policy is "The Reward is not guaranteed to be equal to or greater than the Executive upgrade fee paid." - but they will refund you if you ask for it.
The only year I broke even-ish on my executive membership was the year I bought an expensive engagement ring. All other years I (household of 3-4) went below break even. I lived 1/4th of a mile across the highway from them even. I just couldn’t make it work.
Then why keep signing up? You clearly don’t need the bulk quantities, so why put up with that inconvenience?
To justify the subscription I made the commitment to buy all my necessities there that I could, and in return I get back the equivalent of a month’s worth of free groceries.
That’s my point, it didn’t work and we did quit shopping there.
The prices never really worked out in our favor and the experience of finding a cool product we did truly love only to find it not stocked the following month is awful.
It really makes me wonder how astroturfed the brand is.
I grew up in a post soviet country. To me Costco, has perfected the soviet ideal of shopping more than any soviet economy ever could.
In a Costco, we are all equal. I could be shopping for the same set of beige slacks right next to the CEO of a multi-million dollar company and never know it. We'll own the same Waterpik. Identical towels. Our lawn furniture will look the same.
Everything is purchased at a fair price. And we know it's a fair price because it's Costco. The workers are happy because they are given a fair wage and respect by an executive team that doesn't think they're better than them.
Yes, you have to admit to yourself that a certain part of shopping at Costco is rejecting iconoclasm. You must be okay being part of a crowd. But the other side of that - are you able to surrender? Can you deny yourself when you find something that is legitimately good? Must you be different to the point of self-detrimental?
So yes, I will go to a store that has better olive oil or coffee or oranges. But how can you not love Costco?
Interestingly, my local subreddit loves to describe Costco as a late stage capitalist dystopia.
- fighting for space everywhere: fighting for a parking lot, avoiding people seeming to ram you with their shopping cart, waiting for the extended family of seven in front of you to pick a cereal so you can leave the aisle, waiting for traffic to clear so you can _leave_ the costco
- you have to pay to get in
- and then you have to pay extra to jump to the head of the line
It's wild that you can look at a physical testament of the sheer abundance and affordability that capitalism has created for almost every consumer good, and people will call it a dystopia because they experience traffic or fight over the right to buy cardboard childrens toys
This is Costco literally suffering from success, they have had an enormous growth in subscriptions yet opening stores takes time, faces regulations, has limited availability
There is nothing about Costco that is causing the fighting.
It's entirely a unrelated subculture going insane about pumping up the prices of pieces of cardboard, and 30's-ish adults who never grew up mentally but now have disposable income.
Normal people buy whatever packs for the kids who proceed to play the game completely wrong.
Look, I get that everybody has a job and can't go during the week, but if you're going to Costco outside of working hours, you're doing it wrong. I dunno about fighting over pokemon cards, which like you do you, but crowding doesn't happen at 10 am on a tuesday.
Good comment, but IMHO the main reason to not love it so much is the annual membership fee. It sits well with cult cultivation. Other stores don't require it and they don't form a cult around them.
Costco derives the majority of their revenue from the membership fee, followed by services. They actually make very little on the products themselves as they have a hard cap on markups at like 11% or something around there.
The membership is the whole reason they can offer the deals they do.
right, it buys Costco people. my local Haggens is a veritable paradise by comparison to the overcrowded warehouse that's too far away and closes too early to shop at after work. don't get me started on Fred Meyer clientele
The price is so low that it makes no real difference at this point. I barely go to my local CostCo (on the edge of being worth the annual fee myself!) because it's so incredibly crowded at all times that the savings are only worth it for more expensive items. In contrast, there are several BJ's nearby and the closest one to me is often blissfully sparse. No idea how they manage to stay in business in that location, but it's really nice.
There is no such thing as a free rider in this context, only a fee rider. After all, other supermarkets do fine without a fee. This is not Amazon Prime with free shipping that we're talking about. Charging for just the item still works.
I occasionally go into a Walmart. If a modest membership fee keeps those people out, I'm all for it.
I know what you're thinking, but if a Costco membership is elitism, then fine you can call me elitist. Along with apparently 30% of the American population over the age of 18. We're the big bad 30-percenters, I guess.
But the fee isn't an initiation ritual. It's what partially subsidizes the low prices, often at the expense of people who buy the membership and underutilize it, spending more money upfront than they save on later purchases.
The yearly fee is $65. If you save $5/month on what you buy you break even. Personally I save over $5/month just buying butter there vs buying from my local supermarket.
Most people can do even better with the executive membership if you spend ~$550 a month you'll get the $130 fee back in your rebate. That may seem like a lot but not if you buy most of your groceries there, or things like tires or book a vacation.
We get like 4-5x our exec. membership fee back in rewards cost every year - and I stopped buying tires/car batteries there (takes too long / quality no longer as good) and usually go to best buy for electronics (their return policy is no longer as good, and they often stock sub-par models, etc). Even with that, Costo is essentially paying us to save money.
Yeah, with TVs, Costcos in our area only stock one tier of Samsung models, but "worse" they're recently the 2-3 year old model that has already been superseded. And while the markup is minimal, you're still paying retail for a 3 year old model. Shades of Apple selling the Mac Pro 2019 (cheese grater) with a 4 year old Xeon processor at "full Apple" prices (I almost said full retail, but full Apple is a bit more), and with RAM prices from 4 years prior, too.
Out of all the things I enjoy buying at Costco, the bakery section is mostly a miss. Cookies are bland and they make you buy bottom tier flavors like oatmeal to subsidize the macadamia's. Muffins are bland and tasteless. Bagels are just circular bread instead of a nice chewy outside. They also use carraway seeds in their everything seasoning, so too much licorice for my personal tastes. At .50 a pop I have no complaints on the croissants.
Maybe the East coast bakery just can't compete, but I find time and time again I want to buy something yummy and can't find anything that is worth it.
That's yet another thinly disguised case of punching down: the author wants you to know that they are not the type of person who lives close to a Costco, typically in the suburbs. This author's attitude is so tiresome.
I just got (at 38) a Costco membership this year, thanks to my in-laws gifting us a membership. There's another huge discount retailer here in Boston (BJs) that I have gone to for years, but Costco is another 10+ min drive away so I've resisted thus far. I will say... I'm still adjusting.
- No aisle signs or labels anywhere. I understand the retail strategy here but the lack of efficiency in MY experience kills me. Clearly they can't move the bakery, or meat department. But after ~5 visits I still have no idea where some basic products can be found.
- Who is buying a kayak, or shed while shopping for groceries?
- I continually make the mistake of going during the weekend when it is the most packed store on Earth. There were no less than 3 Cybertrucks in the parking lot.
I don't have the "must-buy" item yet, but every time I go, I feel like I need to take a nap after.
I have talked my wife out of us both nearly impulse-buying a mini greenhouse at Costco multiple times.
And the worst part is, I regret it. We need a greenhouse now and greenhouse prices are through the roof! I can't afford NOT to impulse buy a greenhouse at Costco 18 months ago now! I'll never make that mistake again.
> No aisle signs or labels anywhere. I understand the retail strategy here but the lack of efficiency in MY experience kills me. Clearly they can't move the bakery, or meat department. But after ~5 visits I still have no idea where some basic products can be found.
What are you having trouble finding, out of curiosity? In my Costco everything is pretty much in the same general area. They might move stuff a little bit, but it's pretty consistent.
> Who is buying a kayak, or shed while shopping for groceries?
I see this as separate trips for the larger items. Nobody is buying appliances either when you buy meat or paper towels. Also, Costco never fully replaces a full grocery store in my experience. You just don't need things in the sizes they sell them for many goods. Certain foodstuffs are really designed for restaurants and not people. Like, who is buying the 40 lb bags of flour besides people VERY into baking or restaurants?
> What are you having trouble finding, out of curiosity?
Five employees couldn't find the macarons (I found them next to the raw chicken!?)
The snack bars are being moved around. Now some of the ones we buy are with the toothpaste!?
My wife asks me to pick up some sort of caffeine product. There's three spots they could be in she tells me to look. Sometimes that doesn't work either.
We're considering cancelling. We don't drive much and our vehicles are electric. Not a lot of extra money for their vacation packages.
I do agree that Costco's can be laid out pretty differently and I get confused. My home Costco flows in a circle where you first see:
1. appliances/bedding/toothbrushes
2. alcohol
3. refrigerated foods with the bakery/meat department
4. cleaning products and flats of drinks
5. dry foods
when this cycle is broken or changed in a different Costco I am visiting, I feel VERY lost
The biggest thing I've noticed is a Costco chirality. My home Costco was right-handed (enter on the right, things are in the same order you described, exit on the left), but then I moved and now my local Costco is left-handed (pretty much the same but mirrored, except, for whatever reason, the alcohol, which precedes the perishables rather than succeeding them). Kinda funny.
Long ago we found that we saved more money shopping at Costco than the membership cost by a long shot. We even get the executive membership because they will refund the difference of you don’t get at least that back rewards (we always have).
For things that are acceptable, it’s usually hard to beat Costco. You have to give up variety, possibly brand choice, and maybe even buy more than you’ll use, but it works out to be significantly cheaper. There are categories, however, where Costco is never the cheapest (soft drinks) or where the commodity store brand is significantly worse than alternatives (batteries).
> where the commodity store brand is significantly worse than alternatives (batteries).
Kirkland batteries actually last longer than Duracell. They're some of the best alkaline batteries you can get, especially considering the price. Sure, lithium batteries will last longer, but the mAh per dollar is lower, so they'll still cost more.
It’s probably my own battery hygiene, but I’ve had so many Kirkland batteries leak over the years that I no longer trust them. I still buy batteries at Costco, but haven’t had the same issue with the name brand leaking.
I don't use a lot of AA/AAA batteries, so I'll buy a pack from Costco and it'll sit in my drawer for 5+ years without issue. They go into a TV remote or bathroom scale or whatever and last a couple years with no issue.
The only time this happens to me is when there is a drain on the battery over a long time, or when you have two cells that don't have matching voltage and the lower one gets over-discharged. I've never had one go bad from sitting in a drawer or a box.
I've actually had a whole pile of Duracell CR2023 batteries from Costco leak inside the packaging. (You can google for various reports/pictures of the problem.)
That has not been my experience at all. I think Kirkland batteries have less capacity than the premium brands. Also the point of lithium batteries is that they don't leak, not that they last longer.
Kirkland Alkaline was on par with the Rayovac Fusion+ and Duracell Powerboost. Only Rayovac Fusion was noticeably better (oddly, the non-plus version was better), and even then, it's not significantly better considering the price.
In terms of dollars per mAh, Kirkland is #2, only behind AmazonBasics.
> Also the point of lithium batteries is that they don't leak, not that they last longer.
Not leaking is part of the point, but it's definitely not the only point. Alkaline batteries have half the capacity (roughly) compared to lithium cells. They also have lower voltages over time vs. lithium cells and are capable of less current. For certain applications (high current draw intermittent, or long life low current) they excel, and leaking isn't really part of that conversation.
For standard soda (Coke or Pepsi depending on location) Costco is rarely the cheapest deal at any given time but they are consistently fair. Supermarkets will have regular prices cases at nearly double Costco unit costs, but on sale they are moderately cheaper.
I’ve long since stopped worrying about saving a couple bucks per case while timing deals and simply buy from Costco instead. The couple bucks a month it runs me is worth not worrying about the mental overhead.
The #1 thing for me at Costco is the gas. I have the credit card, so I get 5% cash back on the first $7,000 of gas I purchase in a year. Being as that, as of now I am spending ~$70/week on fuel, I will not hit the max for the year.
But 5% cash back on ($70*52=)$3640 means I get $182/yr by default back to cover the $130 annual cost of the executive membership. Doesn't sound like a good deal until you also factor in that their fuel is typically 10 cents a gallon or more cheaper than the next least expensive fuel place, which means that for my roughly 650 gallons of fuel a year baseline costco gas saves me an additional $65.
So yeah, nothing really amazing, but the fact that having the membership lets me pocket something in the neighborhood of $120/yr on top of the occasional shopping trip and access is nice.
There are so many people like you (who only use it for gas) that they are now building Costco gas stations not attached to a warehouse. Massive stations like the ones near the warehouses.
I think I've gotten the hang of it fairly well. Coffee is over by the coolers but not in them, cat little is on the back wall, specialty cheese is near the meat, Kirland cheese is near the end of one of the coolers, cheap winter jackets are somewhere in the middle between the pants and the tortilla chips, motor oil is at the far right, bread on the left near the old people, and the big expensive life-optional stuff is at the front.
Everything else is either on the way between those points, or it doesn't exist today (because even if it is there, I'll never find it).
The "correct" way to shop at Costco is to wind through every aisle. They want you to discover what they have - what's new, what's gone, what's on sale, try some samples etc. There are some general anchors like the fridge, the alcohol, the produce section but it's otherwise pretty ephemeral.
It's not the kind of place where you go in with a shopping list, make point-to-point pickups and then checkout.
Ya I don't see the appeal either. Imo it's just a place that takes advantage of suburbanites' love of buying excessive amounts of crap they don't need while simultaneously avoiding the spaces outside their car, work, or home. All the more power to them!
I'll join on an occasional trip if I feel like it's a chicken month, but ultimately it seems like a place designed to make it as easy as possible to spend more than I normally would on large amounts of mediocre or bad food and products. It's not remotely a natural optimization of my normal buying habits.
Ironically, I do have a must buy item though, which is the plush blankets.
It makes way more sense to me to just always have a backpack and pick up a few items at a time from smaller shops or other chains, and pay to live closer to these places
> Who is buying a kayak, or shed while shopping for groceries?
Who's buying groceries while kayak shopping? The point is if you want to buy something, you can go to CostCo. The thing you want might be groceries, but sometimes people want other things.
I saw someone leaving buc-ees at 10:30pm who just purchased a huge fire pit and was franticly trying to jam it in the back of a large chevy. I can only imagine they went for stacks due to the poor planning
I hate going there. It's so crowded, the lines are massive, and all so you can save like $200 at the end of the year on some groceries. The other problem is that you end up impulse buying well over $200 worth of stuff you wouldn't have purchased if you just went to the regular grocery store. Oh but you have to go to the grocery store anyways after your 2 hour long Costco trip, because the shit they had last week is gone now. But hey at least you waited in line for another 40 minutes to save $3.00 on your tank of gas you bought while you were there.
I have friends who have membership to Costco, Sam's and BJs. And when they need to buy stuff they go to nearest market from home (none of above 3). Despite working from home forever, they just don't have time to go to these warehouse stores.
My takeaway is at certain income level and lifestyle, one can have all memberships but don't find use of any.
It's much closer to a restaurant supply store that happens to be open to normal people.
If I want to make tacos tonight, and I try to shop for that at Costco, I'm making tacos for a week or more. There's no small size of anything, which is the entire point.
I cannot fathom the people who do weekly or so grocery shopping there. How can you possibly plan out a months worth of pantry for a family like that? It's a skill I certainly don't have but families did for millennia when running small farms and such. Maybe the Navy could teach me how.
I'm a single person and I do almost all of my grocery shopping at Costco. I have a normal sized refrigerator, and a well stocked pantry. If you make tacos one night, make dishes the next three nights that use overlapping ingredients...
I'm from East Asia, where every supermarket brand is basically the same aside from a few different products.
When I moved to North America, this whole concept of tiered supermarkets felt really weird and exotic to me. Like, this is the most basic stuff you need, and you still need to tier it down?
I'm kinda used to it now, but it still feels very American to me.
China at least has this. The stuff you get at the Ole Supermarket inside a shopping mall is different from the stuff you get from the little store facing the street on the ground floor of your apartment building.
Sent me to the shelf, but one has to appreciate the word choice. Evokes the peanut oil spilling everywhere, the reach for geologic terminology captures the lithic aspects of the peanut butter underneath.
Once or twice a year I have a chance to go to costco in the middle of a work day and I'm absolutely blown away at how busy the place is at that time. People everywhere young and old, even kids! Long lines and nobody is rushed.
I want to live like Costco people because apparently they don't work in the middle of the day!
For several years I worked the weekend night shift. This left me with 4 free days each week to do whatever. I thought this put me on the fridges of society to some respect, and I would constantly wonder what all these people were out doing all day and why weren't they at work.
I think the same thing when a majority of businesses are primarily open 9-5 when they are consumer facing. I have to assume most consumers need hours on evenings and weekends, but I guess it all works out.
I suppose a decent number of people work on the weekend have have varying days off during the week and there are those who don't work for one reason or another (retirees, people with disabilities, single-income homes with more than a single person, vacation days, etc). I guess that all adds up.
It's interesting how Millennials seem to be embracing boring practicality as they get older. Brands like Costco, Toyota, Ikea, minivans, etc are all staging a comeback as middle-aged Millennials decide they don't have time to deal with hassles or money to pay for overpriced status symbols.
Indeed Costco is a very practical store. You can trust most of the food to taste good because they test it first, vs a throw everything at the wall and see what sticks approach to a standard grocery store. Trader Joe's is is probably the best in this regard.
The return policy also takes away a lot of concern. If you don't like it you can easily just take it back without any hassle.
I have a Costco that is walking distance from my office. If I need to decompress, I walk to Costco for lunch solo, get a hot dog and a slice of pizza, sit down, and watch both the people and what's in their cart. It's so diverse and pretty fascinating.
Fair, I did leave out the soda that comes with the hotdog. But that could be a diet soda. (and seems to frequently be, given that my local Costco has 4 diet coke spouts, as opposed to 1-2 of any others)
I did look up the calorie count for both. 550-ish for the hotdog, 650-ish for the pizza.
When I shop early I salute the people having breakfast in the food court. One afternoon I saw people at a table with an empty rotisserie chicken package, hittin' their macros. I had my baby with me one time, offering him bites of my hotdog and being praised for being a man spending time with my child as if I had vaccinated a needy village.
I shop at Costco not because of the price or the bulk formats. It's not always a good deal vs other places. The value to me is not having to worry about quality. Any product that is not satisfactory gets returned with no hassle.
Part of growing up is realizing that the places where a person eats or shops, what music and entertainment they consume, what clothes they wear - are entirely uncorrelated with their personality and character and worth. And cringing hard at your own past teenage past self who confused such superficial identity markers with personality.
Unfortunately, it sounds like the article's author is only on their first step of this realization.
Right, I noped out of this article when I realized it felt like a guy making up a whole population he could do some elevated punching down at to offset some ostensible self deprecation. What a chore.
Of course, one can overgeneralize the correlations between consumption preferences and personality (character is vague and worth practically undefined) but it seems absurd to claim they are entirely uncorrelated. Take the Big Five traits: conscientiousness, agreeableness, neuroticism, openness to experience, extroversion. Each has numerous obvious implications for consumer preferences. Do you mean something else by "personality" or perhaps "growing up"?
I'm quite curious what initially instills this juvenile idea in us. I expect it's advertising which actively seeks to foment this nonsense by implying that if you buy this or that you will become this or that.
Jarvis Cocker wrote Common People about a girl he did actually know, who was "identified" as Danae Stratou, daughter of a Greek textile magnate, and while she said "the only person who knows for sure is Cocker himself", emails between her and her husband indicated that she saw herself saying and doing several of the things he references, "yeah, I'm rather ashamed to admit it, that -does- sound like me and things I'd say then".
And then Disco 2000 was written about Deborah Bone, childhood friend who was a mental health nurse (who helped form Step2 and created the Brainbox), and said the only thing inaccurate about the song was that her home did not have "woodchips on the wall". She said, shortly before she died of myeloma, that she "did grow up and sleep with Jarvis Cocker, somebody had to, and it was perfectly innocent" (I think the implication is that they fell asleep together).
Not of any great relevance. I just see myself as a collector of information that might only be useful for music trivia nights...
You probably know the details better than I do (and perhaps there's a later twist I'm unaware of) but in 2022 Cocker denied that it was Stratou:
Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s This Cultural Life (via The Mirror), Cocker addressed claims that the inspiration was Danae Stratou, a Greek woman who attended St Martin’s at the same time as Jarvis, but confirmed that “it wasn’t her because she had blonde hair and the girl had dark hair.”
I wanna live like Costco people
I wanna do whatever Costco people do
Wanna sleep with Costco people
I wanna sleep with Costco people like you.
Well, what else could I do?
I said, "I'll... I'll see what I can do.
"And she just laughed and said 'Oh, you're so funny.' And I said 'Yeah, well, I can't see anyone else smiling in here'."
... which often mirrors my feelings in Costco, particularly near the registers, where oftentimes in my local stores it feels more akin to the Thunderdome.
I wonder how many other people do this: when my wife and I do long roadtrips, we use Costcos as waypoints. Need to refuel? Costco gas is always cheaper than whatever other fill up station is nearby. Need to re-up on snacks (and maybe see what weird snacks the locals have that we don’t have back home)? Costco. Realize you forgot to pack enough socks halfway between Los Angeles and Salt Lake City? No prob, the St George Costco had the same exact socks I have at home because all of my socks are from Costco. Ran over a nail and need a tire swapped? Costco tire warranty babbbyyy. Bathroom? Costco bathrooms are very basic but always clean.
In big adventure RPG games there’s always some kind of shop in every new area that is the same inside everywhere that you can reliably go to for whatever gear you need, to heal, to save your game, whatever. Costco is that but in real life.
Huh. It's the exact opposite of what I'd look for in a roadtrip waypoint.
Gas line. Nightmare parking lot to get in and out of. Long walk to the store. Long walk to find anything. Slow checkout.
I guess narrowing it to "cheap gas, availability of familiar goods and bathrooms, with an on-site tire shop" helps make it make a _bit_ more sense, but the (lack of) speed would just be a deal-killer for me.
Yes, many things are slightly - a few percent - cheaper than many other stores, per unit weight/volume, but it’s not a a big difference. Some things are more expensive though, like meat and fish. It seems “cheap” only if you do most of your other grocery shopping in premium grocery stores (eg Whole Foods). I do most of my grocery shopping in Market Basket, and it’s about the same as Costco for most things I buy. And everything comes in normal sized portions!
Costco’s real benefit is that everything they sell is pretty good stuff, and nothing is outrageously overpriced. Eg They sell Goya beans, for more per can than supermarket brand beans, but less than Goya beans in supermarkets. Many things are like this. You can assume that the things Costco sells are The Good Brands, but you can get most things cheaper if you’re not brand sensitive.
There are many things for which buying in bulk is a false economy: I will *ever again buy Costco-sized containers of eg yogurt covered raisins, or praline covered almonds! I suspect that every trip to Costco used to raise my average body weight for the next year by half a pound. Especially if I went to Costco hungry! Never go to Costco hungry!
> I love Adams crunchy peanut butter, but an 82-ounce jar is so massive and petroliferous with oil that you’d need a paint mixer to properly incorporate it all.
I cannot recommend Kirkland Natural Creamy Peanut Butter highly enough. Ingredients: 100% roasted Valencia peanuts. Sold as a package of two 1kg jars.
As a long-time Costco member, I can relate to this story. I don't expect to find everything I need there, but buying the 'staples' there saves money.
My biggest complaint has always been the enormous size of perishable items. Yes, you can buy a 10 lb bag of apples for much less than other stores; but does it really save you if almost half of it goes bad before you eat it all.
Even when my four always-hungry children lived at home, we had trouble consuming many things we bought. I always thought that Costco would make a killing if they broke up their fruit bags and assembled assorted fruit baskets to sell. Buy 10 lbs, but get it as a mix of apples, oranges, grapes, and lemons.
Also cut their chocolate cakes in half. They would sell more than twice as many.
I like Costco, but it also helps there's one around the corner from my house. That said, I prefer the shopping experience at Sam's, with their mobile checkout. Of course, they're currently building one just a mile from my house. :-)
My wife had the Costco membership and had a tendency to buy in quantities that were a bit much for the two of us. Our freezer was always packed. Now that she's passed, I went and got my own membership (and requisite Visa card), just for the things available there I can't get elsewhere. My goal is to try to avoid the allure of buying inappropriate amounts. We'll see how that goes.
Costco is the last holdout of true American abundance. In the 90s abundance seemed everywhere, even if out of reach. The difference in quality of a service or product was clear at higher price points. Now as a rich adult I generally feel poor, even at fancy restaurants. Nearly everything feels meagre, flimsy & rationed, despite being insanely expensive. Like that scene in Jojo Rabbit where the kids are wearing cardboard uniforms .
I buy 95% of my food and most of my household items from Costco. I will blindly buy any item without reading reviews. Out of thousands of purchases I can count the failures on one hand.
Many ridicule Costco for being excessive. But frugal buyers can produce great value out of 25 lbs of flour, 10 lb bags of rice and so on. With proper home economics you can still eat like a king on a lower-middle-class budget. I'm very proud of the nutritious and luxurious meals I produce with what most people are paying for Doritos & Mountain Dew.
I will never live out of reach of a Costco. It's the second most important factor when I live somewhere.
I'm 43, own a home, live in Seattle, and feel attacked by this article.
"every Costco shopper has a certain item or two they’re compelled to purchase on each visit"
Organic, single-serving guacamole and Magic Spoon cereal for me.
My toddler is obsessed with their mammoth two dollar slices of cheese pizza and talks constantly about wanting to go to Costco to have pizza with his little bestie.
Costco is such a family friendly place. My kids love going there.
They've made some deliberate decisions to make it family friendly:
1. The aisles are wide so the whole family can walk through the store together.
2. The kids love free samples
3. The food court is a great place to have an inexepensive dinner.
4. The store is designed so there's nothing really to grab at ground level if you're a little kid. Everything is up higher.
Contrast this with a standard grocery store: small aisles and tons of little things on the shelf at ground level (including random toys) that can get grabbed or knocked over. Every time I take my family to Albertsons I have to pick a dozen things off the ground that we accidentally knocked off.
I feel compelled to add that we took our toddler to Costco after daycare today. He had his slice of pizza, I got my guacamole and gluten-free, high protein Magic Spoon cereal. Somehow we spent $500. Everyone left happy and thoroughly exhausted.
> I will never buy Costco coffee—I know too much about coffee, and my allegiance to a coterie of indie micro roasters (Yes Plz subscription for life) and esoteric brewing methods has ruined me for life from enjoying the simple pleasures of a Kirkland Signature K-Cup pod.
You can pry the 2-lb bags of Mayorga Cafe Cubano dark roast coffee from my cold, dead hands.
An author who lives in Portland but gets a mail-order coffee subscription from California, no less. A half-dozen indie microroasters within 2 miles of him? _Not good enough_
I'm reading the comments here and confused by one thing... Do people here not purchase fresh fruit and vegetables on a regular basis (i.e. multiple times a week)? I am not an expert on Costco but it seems insane to visit a store the size of Costco every couple of days just to buy some tomatoes and parsley.
I usually buy ephemeral fruits and vegetables frequently, and in small quantities. So, no: I don't go to Costco for those things. That's in-and-out local grocery store stuff, not Costco trip stuff.
When I'm at Costco for other stuff I might buy some produce, though. It depends on what they've got today, the status of what they have (produce quality can vary quite a lot from day-to-day in any given store), and whether I expect to be able to use all of it before it becomes gross.
Mostly what I come home from Costco with is multipacks of [household-sized] canned goods, cheese (which keeps fine in the fridge), meat (to be frozen), and onions (big bag == big onions). Oh, and cat food and kitty litter. Canned V8 juice also comes from Costco at a fraction of grocery store prices. Their OTC medicine is cheap, which is important for stuff I take every day (yay pollen!). These are all things that I will use, and which I save a good deal of money on.
They don't have everything. Often, they very distinctly do not have what I want. If I go there expecting to find a particular flavor of dish detergent or canned salsa, I will probably be disappointed.
What they do have tends to be a very attractive combination of quality and price. Those purchases are successes.
These little successes feel better than getting shafted over and over again by Kroger.
I've become a Costco person in recent years. At least in my perception, inflation has affected grocery stores unevenly:
Whole Foods: eye-bogglingly expensive (and no, I don't think it always was)
Wegmans: substantially more expensive than a few years ago, and a noticeable decline in produce quality
Trader Joes: incredible value on many prepared foods, but not the best source for staples like rice or paper products.
Costco is not inflation-proof by any means but they have pretty much 0 margins and they're reliably the best value on just about whatever they sell. The selection can be limited in some ways compared to a supermarket, and they can be a bad place to be health conscious (as it can be hard to resist massive containers of ultra cheap and delicious treats of various kinds) or to try to try to be an ethical consumer (and please spare me the HN cynical line on this, I get it, I have no real agency and I'm pathetically guilt-ridden): I've read bad things about their meat sourcing, they rarely have coffee with bona fides like fair trade or shade grown, I see controversial products like bird's nest soup, etc.
My local Costco carries the fair trade artisanal coffee brand that is roasted in my city, just in a 3 pound bag of beans instead of a 1 pound bag of beans like at the bougie grocery store. I can understand not wanting the Kirkland brand coffee, but that is far from the only coffee brand for sale at Costco. I am a coffee snob of the highest order and I buy my beans at Costco.
That's true, but mostly due to simple logistical constraints, more exoticly prepared beans generally don't keep as well on the shelf and need to be used shortly after roasting. I do a pour over in a Chemex every morning and use the beans I buy at Costco which are a locally medium-roasted, but not specially prepared. For more exotic stuff I get them directly from a local roaster in smaller quantities to be used within a week.
It's probably very store specific. If you know the Market Basket in Somerville, MA, it's got a legendary produce section. I've been to locations in NH with crap.
IMO H-Mart is the safest bet in the Boston area for high quality produce (outside of farmers markets, natch)
Being "Costco people" is easy. The quality of the product is good, the prices are good, there's little "choice paralysis" and it's all under one roof. But socially, it's like having IKEA art on your walls. You don't want to have the same thing everyone else has; as a host (if you still do that sort of thing) or potluck participant, you have to somehow differentiate yourself. Of course you can cook interesting stuff from ingredients found at Costco, but serving any kind of ready made snacks or meal items from Costco is just lame given that your guests are probably Costco-istas too.
I tried to go the Costco route, but somehow it didn't click for me. The portion sizes were too large.
As a household of 1, it just doesn't make sense to buy that much of most things, unless I'm sure they're almost entirely non-perishable. Maybe it would be fine for my cereal or something, but not a lot of what I buy. And, by design, they limit their SKUs a fair amount.
So ultimately I end up in a situation where I can buy a couple things at Costco, but then still need to do regular grocery trips.
Now I need to drive to 2 separate stores, which is extra trips there and back.
The math just didn't work out. If I could truly do 100% of my grocery shopping there I would.
I've been a costco member for more than 10 years now since it's about a 7 minute drive from my home. It's really fun to discover new things they bring in, like a flea market kind of vibe.
These past 2 years it has gotten significantly worse. Too crowded. Too many people who have no common decency of not blocking the lane. And way way way too many instacart delivery people FLOORING IT to get their next item pickup and leave. Looking at their phone and bumping into people/stuff. I don't like the vibes.
The one cool thing they have now is the 9am executive hours where you can go in earlier than normal. That feels more like the costco of 2016 to me.
Costco is my least favorite part of middle age. Although, I do generally like their products and pricing.
For some reason my wife likes taking more time there than other places we shop for food, and I get anxious to get it over with. You can bet most of the times I wander off to get things off our list that she's herself wandered off, and the Costco we go to doesn't have good cell coverage. So I then end up both anxious about spending all day shopping, and annoyed that I can't find my wife.
I am sure I'm not the only one. I try to go alone, or stay in the car this happens so often.
I figured out that when I push the cart, my wife runs all over and I struggle to keep up and navigate the cart between the crowds and it's an anxiety inducing experience trying to keep up before she turns a corner, then another, never to be seen again.
When she is encumbered with navigating the cart, it's quite easy to stay nearby as all her movements have to be more considered. This also generally restricts her to the same lumbering speed as all the other carts in the store.
I like to pretend I'm driving a boat and enjoy the sightseeing and people watching. If he finds something he likes, he has to find me with the cart eventually!
But yes, you can buy many different items there. Many come in large packages. The public can be found there shopping too. You are not required to purchase every item. Welcome to the 90s and holy shit thanks for the journalism.
I let my Costco membership lapse because it's cheaper, healthier and more pleasant to buy 1) small quantities, of 2) fresh foods, in a 3) nice store, that is preferably 4) nearby, and 5) quietly forget to buy all the other crap you don't need.
Frasier, at a free sample station: I do thank you, but I'm afraid I'm rather particular about the provenance of my shellfish. To subject a scampi to the radiation of a microwave is not cooking, madam, it's an execution! My god, Niles, is that a '98 Chateau Latour in your cart?
Niles: I've already secured six cases! They're over there, just between the Kirkland Signature Leaf Blowers and the 5 pound bags of "Kickin' Queso Jalapeño Poppers"!
PSA: You don't need a Costco membership to buy from Costco.com. You pay a surcharge of 5%. A membership is $60, so if you spend less than $1200/yr on their website, it's better not to buy one.
I don't know what Costco parking lots in the PNW are like but in the NE, they're a nightmare. People racing around, lining up and jockeying for spots, enormous carts careening around and being left ... wherever because people can't be bothered to put them back. My family has a membership but I permanently opted out after one trip to the Danbury, CT location.
> otherwise you are rarely confronted by the staff here, and I like that.
That is, until they try to stop you from leaving the store with your property until you show them a receipt.
> ... I don't know what Costco parking lots in the PNW are like but in the NE...
I live near, and commute by, one of the PNW Costcos in the PDX area the author explicitly references. I can confirm that just the mere sight of the parking lot, at all hours, has been the primary factor in my refusing to get a membership. Plenty of friends and family I trust love Costco, and I'm sure they're right and that I'd find lots to appreciate, but that damn parking lot madness is such a hump for me to get over.
FWIW, I'm referring to the Beaverton Costco right next to Nike.
Nashua NH Costco is crowded most days, but not near what you're describing.
I also don't like the door check 'game.' Additionally, being hounded at checkout to upgrade your plan while juggling a 5 year old, dealing with payment, and a line full of people behind you is not enjoyable.
My secret is just parking immediately on the edge of the lot and walking the 100 yards on in. People will play this stupid game for 10 minutes getting steaming red waiting for a spot near the front and I'm already shopping.
This is a good option if there are any spots available. At my local Costcos (Danbury and Orange, CT) the lots are often completely full and there's a queue just to enter the lot.
My family and I recently completed this Costco 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle made by Dowdle Folk Art(1). And I have to say, I had a very similar feeling to what the author of this piece is describing. Lots of different people, all walks of life, and no words requiring a dictionary! (looking at you, "Contrapuntal")
> Contrapuntal to the list of things we must buy on each visit, there is perhaps a more controversial list.
That's... a very strange application of the word. I’ve only ever seen it used in the context of baroque music, interchangeable with the idea of counterpoint referring to independent melodic lines in a piece, such as you would see in Bach’s The Well-Tempered Clavier. Using it here feels forced and out of place.
Living in Japan, I have a membership because it's a good source of western food at a cheaper price than most import shops. Good bacon and cheese isn't common over here.
I've only been to Costco a handful of times in my life. It seems like each time, there were hordes of people standing lifelessly in a huge line waiting to check themselves out(sometimes with help from an employee), which took longer than it should. Then, once that task was accomplished, they'd then stand in another huge line waiting to leave. Is this the typical experience or did I just happen to pick the worst times/locations?
I happily pay more at places like Publix to -not- have to do that.
This was my experience, too. I have tried going at noon on weekdays, as soon as the store opens, and every other time folks on the internet have recommended. Every single time, it was an absolute slog to get through aisles full of oblivious people blocking areas with their carts and (hilariously) getting mad at you for asking them to move their cart.
Also, this may be my own bias coloring my perception but there was a palpable undertone among some of the shoppers of “at least we’re not Walmart customers”.
I’m sure quite a few Costco members enjoy the treasure hunt model they offer but I’d much rather have an option to order online and go pick up what I need or, failing that, labeled aisles.
To Costco’s credit, though, they refunded my membership fee in full as soon as I asked to cancel. And their return policy the one time I had to use it was exceptional as well. It’s a shame the rest of the experience has to be such a sensory overload.
> I have tried going at noon on weekdays, as soon as the store opens, and every other time folks on the internet have recommended.
Whoever told you to go at noon on a weekday was pulling your leg. That's when all the peeps with jobs go to shop and get a quick lunch on their lunch break. It's always packed then.
At open on a weekday is usually pretty good, but 30 minutes after open might be better (if you've got the executive membership with an exclusive hour, then be sure to go then). Never go on the weekend, unless maybe 30 minutes before closing, if you know what you want and where it is. Or you can probably go during the super bowl, but not before or after. Double don't go on the weekend before a weekday holiday.
In my experience, get there as early as possible and it's not bad. But that's the standard for these membership stores, although Sam's Club has the edge being able to use their app to scan your items and pay without having to stop anywhere (other than the line to get out.)
I have a Sam's Club membership primarily because it is much closer to me than Costco. I hate the crowds but it baffles me there are lines when the scan & go app exists! And I swear last time I went they weren't even scanning receipts, but you walked through some sort of gateway?
Costco actually has a better checkout experience than most places IMO. They always have basically all lanes open, and the employees are efficient at moving people through.
I love Wegmans for most groceries but their checkouts seem to be getting worse.
That's the takeaway - that people are supposed to be bored in line? I wasn't insulting the people, I was describing what to me is the awful human experience of shopping at Costco.
> there were hordes of people standing lifelessly in a huge line waiting to check themselves out
Where are the retail experiences where people waiting to checkout are expressing an abundance of joy in life to you? Is the problem the “horde”? Sure, popular places tend to have a lot of people. I’m not sure why Costco customers act way less fun to you than at other places? This whole comments reads like a petulant “everyone is a NPC but me” screed
so silly, right??! and of all the checkouts Costco is bussin! I am always with my daughter, we open a package of 85 croisants and eat like 5 while also opening 60lbs bag of walnuts and munch together while taking bets whether we picked the right line based on complex algorithms of who is working at checkout, who is in line and how much stuff they bought and another billions parameters :)
I deliberately take my time in self-checkout lines. If they are going to cheap out by not having cashiers, I'm not going to hustle to make their lines move faster.
I've been to Costco (UK) a couple of times. It mostly seems to be: 4x the quantity for 4x the price (i.e. same price as any other store). I don't get it? I honestly think a large majority of people think it being in bulk MUST equal a saving?
Is it just for like catering companies or families of 20 where the bigger size is kind of helpful?
They do some nice discounts on Macs online though (can't say I'm a fan of their customer service either though based on my experience returning a Macbook)
> They do some nice discounts on Macs online though (can't say I'm a fan of their customer service either though based on my experience returning a Macbook)
That is one area where I think they're starting to crack down, here, thanks to abuse. My ex- returned a glass-topped sit stand desk after 5 years, when she finished her degree, for a full refund. "Anything wrong with it?" "No." "Any reason you're returning it?" "Just don't like it now." "Okay, here you go".
And her mom, who would buy a Keurig, drink all the sample pods it came with (24-30 or so), and then return it to get a new one (and new sample pods), which blew my mind, what a pain in the ass, for that, not to mention...
I just returned it within a a few days, exercising my legal rights when purchasing an item over the internet. I wasn't that impressed with the device for the money having had the opportunity to demo it
The UK has almost nowhere that would accept a return for a refund after 5 years after having rented it for free.
You can barely exercise your legal rights when something breaks at year 5 of 6 (because of the burden of proof is on you that it was a manufacturing defect)
I don't know about Costco UK, but there are many staple items where the 4-pack of whatever costs about 1.5 times the single pack at my local mainstream grocery store. There's also a lot of items where the local mainstream grocery store tends to have something in that category on a loss leader sale below the costco price, so if you're brand insensitive or have room to stock up when your brand is on sale, you'll do better at the mainstream grocery; since you're also shopping at costco, probably at least one of those is true. And yeah, if you have particular tastes in certain categories, chances are you need to go somewhere else.
You can do better with corn in bulk at a grain elevator. Takes about 8 bushels (56 pounds, 25.4 kg) to provide the calorie requirements for an adult for a year. Current price for corn in USA is $5/bushel plus transport. So $40/person/year (modulo transport, cooking, dying of pellagra, etc.).
Look at Richie Rich paying $200 plus prorated membership for his subsidence calories (in white rice, no less, which is a premium starch in some Asian countries)…
Where I live (Puerto Rico) Costco is basically the only decent midrange to upper midrange store. There are a couple higher end butcher shops, but local groceries are "smart and final" or other discount-US grocery equivalent, with prices at mainstream NYC levels, while Costco is basically the same prices as most of the US, and ~70% of the selection of Bay Area Costco. Easy choice (along with Amazon and other online shopping).
As a European, I think I mostly liked Costco when I visited. But what I'll always remember is that pizza slice you can get when you leave. The amount of fat and especially salt made me feel like I'm about to have a stroke. I can totally understand how some Americans are unhealthy/obese. It was overall a great experience - 10/10 would do again.
I can't imagine you could buy a pie of that shit to take home.
There's nothing appealing about costco to me anymore. Living is suburban DC... The parking lots are packed and dangerous, there's too many people in the store, the produce quality isn't there, and it takes forever to checkout. It doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore, and I'm the perfect candidate for someone that could benefit from going there once in a while.
My favorite Costco story is when it opened up in my town, we joined. We were there one day and bumped into some very good friends of the family there (since passed sadly).
They were talking about how they were admiring all the services offered to members, and said they considered buying a cruise vacation package, but then immediately realized “we’d just be on the ship with people from Costco”
Costco is America's most important "third space". For many people including myself, it's a consistent weekly outing with friends, roommates, girlfriends, wife, the kids. I've even taken tourists there.
Notice how almost no one goes to Costco alone, and contrast it with the supermarket, where most people now go alone.
CostCo has dropped off a bit in the UK. They've oversold the memberships (which were being abused anyway) and now the stores are always crowded, often it seems with people who don't know what a shop is or who can't push a trolley in a straight line.
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The nearest costco to me is an hour and half away. I've been in costco only once, and I guess I got it, but I also was like: do i need this? This year they're opening one nearby (~10mins). I have this nagging growing feeling of fear I will be joining.
The real hooking factor is when you go and recognize items you are already buying in other stores in smaller quantities for more money. Then you start branching out further still.
i find it saddening to read things like this, it could have been written in the 20s, the 50s. there are no bulwarks, the world is more bland every day, and each time another rationalization on the way down. yet again another author fishing for sympathy for caving in. tongue in cheek of course. don't take it too seriously y'all, we're just keeping it real, nudge nudge. i want of this train. Dear snobs, all is forgiven, please come back.
"the solo adult men with AirPods in (also sold at Costco), listening to God knows what podcast: Are they thinking about a dead relative’s favorite Costco items, too?"
The main reason i don't shop at costco is the lack of serendipity. i won't set foot in a walmart for the same reason. My expectations for any random human encounter there are net negative.
I want to live like Costco people too, but my house isn't big enough. Fortunately, one family member shops there, and splits the stuff between two households.
This could possibly be the most cringe piece of coastal elite content I've ever read.
Aesthetically-minded hipster writes a think piece on reluctantly aging out of high school fears of being "uncool," finally grows up and has a family, but 15 years too late.
Discovers the concept of economies of scale and also that families in the center of the country who spend their weekends at Costco instead of marching at pride events might not be nazis after all...and actually it's kind of convenient to go to a big warehouse full of curated bulk items and buy shit when you have kids.
I imagine its exactly the type of thing boomer hippies (the hipsters of their generation) wrote about in the 80s/90s after they realized dropping acid in nudist drum circles gets old after a while and that communes don't actually work. Just rewrite the title to "I want to live like Kmart people," and voila, you've got a New Yorker thinkpiece from 1986.
It must be an issue with the European implementation, but I have a Costco not very far from home, and yet I never stepped inside.
Because simply asking to see what it sells requires me to subscribe upfront.
It's not like I cannot buy without a membership card; that is perfectly understandable. But I cannot even see what's sold inside, which prevents me from knowing if I actually want to become a member. They do have a "catalogue" of sorts... showing the prices of about 30 products or so. That's all. And the website describing the general aisles, with a few pictures.
So, they want me to subscribe to something before I can even see what they have to offer? What the heck is with that?
On the other hand, you can just walk straight to the food court and buy pizza, soda, and cookies, without being a member.
Is this how things work in the US as well? If so, how is that justified?
I can't think of another clothing retailer that has garments right there in front of you that you can touch and hold up to your body, the experience is far superior to just looking at photos.
You can do this at Target, Wal-Mart, The Gap (incl. Banana Republic, Old Navy), any department store (Macy's, Bloomingdales, Saks), Paul Stuart, Brooks Brothers. I'm struggling to think of anywhere you cannot do this. Did you drop some qualifier that would restrict "clothing retailer" to a smaller category?
huh? Have you never bought clothing in person before? Is Costco really your only exposure to buying clothes in a physical space? Is "big shop full of clothes" an American thing no one has ever pointed out to me?
With dynamic pricing and other consumer predatory schemes out there, Costco feels like the only one that fights for the consumer. The checkout is lightyears faster than any local supermarket, return policies are good, and I don't feel like the warehouse is trying to waste my time. The low price of good quality meat alone is worth the price of admission. If you cook, you come out doubly saving money.
"Something about the whole thing always registered to me as, like, lame—too normcore, too boring, perhaps even too cheugy to an informed and taste-driven millennial ur-consumer like me." -> What even is this? Get over yourself.
Remember that the CEO of Costco wears his name tag to work, and eats the Costco hotdog like everyone else. I'd buy that for a dollar!
when you consider the setup and infrastructure going to and fro the mega warehouse of dry and perishable goods, also considering the required equipment, (a sedan, or large car) - It begins to become apparent the genesis of costco largely rises out of Americas car culture and suburbia.
Alternatively elsewhere, small shops, many locally owned, butchers, vendors convenience stores replace the existence of 'costco'
In these facts, I dont know if its necessarily a bad thing, but there is something empty, soulless and anti social about it.
Maybe a few grape tomatoes for thought between the world salad of this article, "cognitive pattern. It is a jarring thoughtscape, remarkably compelling and nondiscursive and utterly hard to shake." - That is what the author too is getting at?
> You shift into Costco mode somewhere at the ten-minute driving mark. They’re always in far-off places, and so the last ten or twenty minutes of the drive feel like a rush
Or you just order from Costco as one more store on Instacart or similar, and don't make it part of your identity.
I have memories of a Costco similar to the author's, but I have no desire to ever go to a store again if I can help it.
This article seemed mildly interesting to perhaps kill 5 minutes. I clicked through only to be slapped by a cookie consent and a newsletter signup pop up, together they entirely obscure the content on mobile. Too much friction, so I decided to just close it, this saved me from wasting 5 minutes of my life reading, which I instead proceeded to use cleaning a toilet. All in all, a good outcome I would say.
Only an American could come up with an article like this, psychologizing about a supermarket.
Guys. Its a supermarket with a monthly fee. Based on your monthly expenses it might or might not be worthwhile to shop there. That's about all the philosophizing there is about it.
I find the quality of Costco food is lacking, especially things like Chips, which are usually quite stale. The overall experience is also off-putting, compared to a place like Whole Foods, that generally get me excited about cooking.
sorry but good god what an asshole this writer sounds like. a majority of people go to costco because it’s drastically simplifies the grocery shopping experience and saves money. easier to buy for 3 weeks at a time vs once a week, reduces decision paralysis on basic goods from fake variety at the grocery store, and again for a cheaper price than most places around
reducing the experience to “settling into the drudgery of middle age” scream more of a reflection of OP than any costco normal shopper
This is kind of a weird take on Costco, but I also somewhat resonate with it. I've always seen Costco as somehow the perfect aspirational ideal of the American middle class. Personally, I love Costco, and my love for it has grown as I've become more affluent, because I can actually attain that aspirational lifestyle. On any given day in my local Costco, I'm probably the highest earning person in the store, but that doesn't matter because I want the exact same Kirkland Signature toilet paper as the next guy. As someone who often obsesses over trying to acquire the best things so that they last longer (BIFL), Costco tickles my internal register of "good enough". I don't think I've ever regretted a purchase at Costco other than occasionally upsetting my wife for getting something that wasn't on the list.
I resisted joining Costco for many years, because it seemed too culty, or just too popular in general (with my assumption being that most popular things are bad). Eventually they sucked me in though, and yes, it really is good.
> And this is where we wait together, regardless of our age, our carts stocked with brightly colored goods. A slowly moving line, satisfying, giving us time to glance at the tabloids in the racks. Everything we need that is not food or love is here in the tabloid racks. The tales of the supernatural and the extraterrestrial. The miracle vitamins, the cures for cancer, the remedies for obesity. The cults of the famous and the dead.
I will brave the downvotes and say: I don’t like Costco.
It’s not out of snobbishness, their quality is excellent at excellent prices.
My problem is that I find I spend more at Costco than at conventional grocery stores like Trader Joe’s.
The paradox is, it’s cheaper, but I spend more. I buy things I wouldn’t normally buy, and ant higher quantities. Even worse, I somehow eat it all quite quickly.
I spend more and eat more when I shop at Costco.
Unfortunately that’s neither healthy for my wallet nor for my waistline.
I love Costco, but I get it. My wife and I always joke about how we can't leave without spending at least $100, and how that's only like 7 items sometimes.
We didn’t have Costco in our area when I was a kid, but iirc that’s why my parents stopped going to Sam’s Club: any money they saved on buying cheaper bulk things went into buying random extras.
When I lived in the US, I was a Trader Joe’s person. They had lots of interesting and gourmet-ish items at pretty reasonable prices. Not a lot in the way of fresh produce though, so needed to go to a supermarket for that.
Their staff felt a bit cultish, but they were always pretty friendly and helpful so from a customer perspective it was nice.
I tried Costco once and everything was too big. By the time we got to the end of anything we were absolutely sick of it.
If I’m being honest I find a lot of this kind of stuff pretentiously performative. It’s a wholesale market with a membership fee. The food is nutritious and cheap and there are economies of scale to be had.
There are no Costco people. There are no Whole Foods people. There are no Gus’s people. In San Francisco, I live a block from Whole Foods, a block from Safeway and a block past that is Gus’s. Costco is six blocks away. We go to all of these places at various times. My gym is near Gus’s. Whole Foods has the biggest selection. Safeway has Envy apples. Costco is where we get the base load of stuff when we do weekly shopping.
As commentary on consumerism has filtered down from philosophy to the masses it really has become incredibly middle-brow. Copy-paste opinions about shopping substitute for any intellectual examination of food availability. Like LLM text the language is sound but the ideas are incredibly shallow shadows of the ultimate concept.
It really brings home the idea that if you can’t appreciate living in an era of abundance where fruit of high quality is available throughout the year and it has been bred to high perfection and eggs, milk, and rice are practically costless compared to the past, that perhaps there is nothing that can bring you joy. All the “this is late stage capitalism where you consume consume consume without thought and reason” takes have the shape of meaning but carry nothing. They’re some kind of cargo cult mimicry of some concept.
We have solved food. Costco is the solved form. $2.99/lb of chicken.
> There are no Costco people. There are no Whole Foods people. There are no Gus’s people.
I think where you shop and what kind of products you buy says a lot about you. For example - I have two friend groups that sometimes meet up for drinks. One group drinks craft beer, fancy wine, etc. The other drinks relatively inexpensive beers and chu-hi. The experience in the two groups is completely different - everything from the conversation topics, manners, ideals, hobbies, how much people drink and for how long, etc. In both groups I have seen someone mention that they shop at a certain store, and elicit surprise from the other group members.
> In San Francisco, I live a block from Whole Foods, a block from Safeway and a block past that is Gus’s. Costco is six blocks away. We go to all of these places at various times. My gym is near Gus’s. Whole Foods has the biggest selection. Safeway has Envy apples. Costco is where we get the base load of stuff when we do weekly shopping.
I actually think this says quite a bit more about you than you may think. I can probably guess which way you vote, for instance, and where you stand on a range of social issues. I can probably guess how much income you earn, and whether you have a college degree. I may be wrong - we're dealing with probabilities after all - but demographics are real.
shopping at Costco reminds me of reading news in a bad way, Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect way.
And it's bit of a shame because there's this already implicit trust that have formed over the years, but it just seems really hard to keep enshittification at bay. For Costco to continue they really need to up their game and make consumer their absolute fan by first stop destroying their gut health. Junk food's fine, but chicken mince honestly don't need all that additives.
> Something about the whole thing always registered to me as, like, lame—too normcore, too boring, perhaps even too cheugy to an informed and taste-driven millennial ur-consumer like me. The kinds of brands I like to buy aren’t what they sell at Costco
Good example of how people can build identities through their brand choices and purchasing habits.
It’s a foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant if another company releases a better product. Yet the crossover between brands, identities, and lifestyles is deeply held by many people.
I know some will try to turn this into a criticism of Americans, but in my travels and international business experience I wouldn’t even rank Americans in the top 10 for integrating brands and identity. In some countries I had to make a conscious effort to try to wear clothes from acceptable brands and swap my functional laptop bag for something more stylish to avoid letting my purchasing habits become a point of judgment from others. It’s actually refreshing to come back to America where as long as you’ve made some effort to look more or less appropriate for the occasion few people care about the brand of your clothes, laptop bag, or car. Some people are proud of their Audi or designer bag, but I rarely run into situations where I’d be judged for arriving in a sensible Subaru instead of a Mercedes.
> "What's great about this country is America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca-Cola, and you can know that the President drinks Coke, Liz Taylor drinks Coke, and just think, you can drink Coke, too. A Coke is a Coke and no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking. All the Cokes are the same and all the Cokes are good.” - Andy Warhol
Unfortunately I think America is starting to lose this way a bit, with the influx of newer premium brands and the fracturing of American consumers into endless lifestyle personas. But there's still some truth left in it.
> where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest
To say that "the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest" by using Coke as an example is a significant oversimplification and is cherry picking examples to prove a point. The richest consumers buy plenty of consumer goods that the poorest cannot even dream of buying or even renting.
If there was a truffle-infused Coke with edible 24k gold flakes that cost 10x as much (and actually tasted good) you can be sure pretty much only the richest consumers would be drinking it, and that everyone who couldn't afford it would be doing everything in their power to keep up with the Joneses.
What percentage of "the poorest" own their own home or go on international trips more than once a year let alone owning multiple homes, luxury cars, and private jets?
Andy Warhol's quote is about aspiration and perceived attainment. The average person is not aspiring to drink a gold flake truffle-infused Coke.
The implication is the lack of a rigorous class hierarchy in America. Not that the rich don't live different lifestyles or consume more. But that niche luxury products were considered effete and un-American.
(Andy Warhol was almost certainly also being ironic - that the richest people in America publicly shared the same trashy taste as average Americans).
The closest analogue today might be an iPhone. Rich or poor, if you want the "best" phone you have an iPhone. Sure, there are gaudier and more expensive phones out there. But you're essentially using the same product as the richest Americans.
Fair point.
What about cars or houses?
> no amount of money can get you a better Coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking
Doesn't the fact that the original quote literally acknowledges "bums on the corner" imply that he wasn't referring to housing at all?
I have found the Coke machines at Costco to always have a perfect mixture.
In n Out is my favorite Coke. I think Costco and Chick Fil A are tied despite being pretty different.
“If you raise (the price of the) effing hot dog, I will kill you”
Personally I don't envy an "high-end" car (RR, McLaren, Ferrari, Porsche, etc.), or a big mansion which needs a horde of people to run.
I personally developed a feeling for things which are at the edge of "diminishing returns" curve. I get the things which are high-end enough, but not in the "pay 3x more to get 1% more" region.
I agree, but will say that having a well-built house in a great area is extremely expensive, especially if you happen to like walkable cities along the southern California coast.
A well built house doesn't have to be big, needs multiple staff on payroll, or come with a pool.
Buying high quality things is a thing, but buying things just because they are high end and flashy is something else.
If I failed to convey what I tried to say in my first comment, let me give another examples.
Personally, I'll pay pretty penny for a bass guitar, if its build quality and features is worth it, not because of hype or it's a signature model of someone else's.
I'll buy a high end computer or a car with all (meaningful) options installed, not because I want to show off but I'll need the features or processing power.
I buy high end audio gear (for listening or recording), not because to brag about it but to use it.
And when I buy these things, I use them until they run out of steam, not until they're out of fashion.
That fancy Lamborghini is going to be sitting in the same traffic as my Honda.
no - it will be getting very expensive servicing while you're enjoying 200K+ trouble-free miles
But it's not expensive to the person getting it serviced. Finance becomes a matter of perspective at a certain level, I imagine. You buy the Lambo because it's fun to drive, you buy the clothing with the most 000's at the end of the price because it's most likely the best. It's not 'expensive,' it's just... why would you take anything less than the best everytime?
> you buy the clothing with the most 000's at the end of the price because it's most likely the best
This is very rarely the case. For tailored or custom clothing, sure, but that doesn’t end up being the most expensive. Silly designer brands with lower quality do.
Which is of course entirely besides the point. While it’s receiving service the owner will be in their Honda accord (they drive it daily), but they will always have the top trim and will probably get a new one once it’s out of warranty and needs its first “real entropy” repair.
Being rich is better than being poor. The Warhol quote has nothing to do with that fact.
>Being rich is better than being poor.
As someone who started out very poor, and is now ~ 30x above that. I strongly subscribe to the idea that happiness from income is very logarithmic. The first 2-3x income was life changing. I'm talking going from eating pasta, rice and beans for most meals to fresh fruit and veg, lean cuts of meat. From renting a room in a noisy apartment with 4 other people to having my own place that was both safe and quiet. My reading list was suddenly more constrained by time instead of price or library backlog.
I suppose it's down to my starting position, a content disposition and a boring lack of imagination, but my expenses have now ~ 5x'd what they were when I was on the strugglebus, but still very modest, and I honestly can't identify any spending that would make my life better or make me happier long term.
It’s very true. When I got my first apartment on my own I was living on $3000/month (today’s dollars adjusted for inflation). Now I live on $20k and I can’t say there’s many things better about my day to day. I seem to spend a lot on things that don’t matter that much :(
I'm reminded of the Polish proverb that it's better to be rich & healthy than sick & poor.
You're equals in that regard, but try riding a motorcycle one day. I live in a country where lanesplitting is legal. There's nothing quite like getting passed by an extremely expensive car, and then at the traffic lights, cut in front of it.
Yeah, I switched to a bike too. Way better quality of life, and lane splitting is a godsend. In my area not allowing a bike to pass is actually a ticketable offense (though I've never actually heard of anyone getting a ticket for it). Either way, the cars know what to expect and the cars in the left-most lane hug the left side of the lane to give you room.
Sounds like an evolutionary advantage adapted by the Toxoplasma gondii in your brain to more efficiently deliver you to the big ghost cat in the sky.
It feels great until you die.
So do most nice things in life old boy.
[Honda Fireblade: throttle open and in the red, eyes closed and smiling.]
Unless they pay for the express lanes
Yeah, those are obnoxious and a fundamental undermining of America, imo.
Thank you! I don't get how many people are just accepting of them. I do hate the pay-to-play lanes ones, but the ones I faced driving out in Illinois where there's no viable alternative and you have to produce exact change are crazy, should be illegal.
It's going to be sitting here in my garage in hollywood hills. (and seven more lamborghinis in my lamborghini account)
In other words, it's still perceived as a sign of status.
Not in LA/socal. The secret is out. There's a bunch of underground tunnels that rich and well connected people can use, that the little people can not.
Is this actually true cause it reads like STRAIGHT paranoia. I imagine those tunnels are owned by the illuminati, right?
Why do you think musk was all about the small private tunnels for transportation but then he blabbed to the public and was forced to go quiet?
/s
As opposed to New York where they just take helicopters
As is that “off road adventure 4x4”, yet people still buy them.
The owner can afford to use the HOT lane at any price.
the lambo is a toy.
the people who have the real money are flying in private jets.
The real question is what about toilets. You'd think they're all the same, but a $700 Toto bidet with a heated seat that cleans your butthole with warm water is a better experience than using toilet paper.
My $200 home depot bidet does the same.
Toto survives by brand name reco only nowadays.
That and all the work they do for AI semiconductors.
A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now. Even the cheapest cars can have giant screens and climate control. I don't think they are equal to a Rolls Royce, but extreme luxury has greater diminishing returns now than at any point in history.
Where I live pretty much all new houses are being built with granite counter tops and hardwood floors. Whether that's a good thing is a whole other topic ...
> Where I live pretty much all new houses are being built with granite counter tops and hardwood floors. Whether that's a good thing is a whole other topic ...
When land and labor (and fees leveraged by the city, state, etc.) are extremely expensive, the additional cost for these "luxury" items is very low by comparison. The buyers for these homes are buying everything new and it makes little sense to save $10k or so on such a visible amenity that is expensive to retrofit afterwards, on a home that costs $500k.
It is the same reason why crank windows are gone from cars. They aren't really status symbols.
And when my kitchen had to get rebuilt after a fire, I got neither. There are better synthetics for countertops and good tile is generally better for the floors. Maybe new houses are being built with granite and hardwood floors but they're not necessarily the best choices. I've known lots of people who had issues with granite (and my contractor agreed) and my hardwood was pretty beaten up even before the fire though I still have plenty of very old hardwood flooring in other less-trafficked areas of the house.
Like car colors, new house design decisions tend to be driven a lot by various current fashions because they're the low risk for purchasing reasons whether by developers or perceived resale by buyers.
Personally, I didn't care. My new color schemes are muted but not neutral. And my kitchen/dining room choices were, I think, practical for the most part.
>It is the same reason why crank windows are gone from cars. They aren't really status symbols.
That has more to do with automotive engineering being tightly coupled to academic engineering and the latter having gone through a "people are idiots, rob them of the ability to put force on anything at every opportunity" phase.
A Tesla is a poorly built expensive semi-luxury car.
The first Teslas were poorly built expensive semi-luxury cars.
The current Model 3 and Model Y are properly built competitively priced cars with many luxury features (such as huge trunks, rear climate control, all wheel drive, etc) and gadgets (Netflix on huge touchscreen, self-driving, etc).
They are still out of reach as new to a lot of people. Let's call that premium market instead of luxury.
A Tesla Model 3, dual motor has a 0 to 60 speed of 4.3 seconds. My F-150 lightening extended range can do that it 3.8 seconds.
Tesla Model3 dual is 4.03 seconds, not 4.3 while the F-150 lightning standard range is 4.2.
The F-150 extended range is 3.8 as you state, but then the Tesla Model 3 performance comes in at 2.8.
https://www.0-60specs.com/tesla/model-3-0-60-times
https://www.fordoffeasterville.com/blogs/4896/ford-lightning...
Both are absurd and entirely unnecessary for vehicles not on a race track. Tesla's great trick was replacing BMW as the car your neighborhood prick who wants to look upscale buys by default.
> race track
I presume that F150 ain't getting round the corners very quickly.
I reckon optimising for straight line speed is a strange goal.
Right, there's no form of racing that is a straight line, is there.
Regardless, optimizing a pick up for 0-60 time is a strange goal, unless you have some express desire to launch 2x4s a great distance in a complicated way.
Faster than electric:
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/JATO_Rocket_Car
Optimizing for it? Probably not. But side effect of it's ability to tow 10,000 pounds that also makes it hella fun to drive? Absolutely.
You are dangerously close to initiating a new sport.
Someday, commentators filling air time on ESPN's "Need to Yeet" may bring up this comment as "the Casual Remark That Started it All".
This has to be sarcasm, right?
I was sad to see it discontinued. I hope the slate truck is gonna be good when it's released, cause I dig their emphasis on customization and repairability.
Me too, it's such a fantastic truck. Built like a tank, huge battery and insanely fast charging for a 400V architecture. The only thing that sucks about it is it's a bit bouncy, and the software can be stupid. But I love it.
We bought it mostly because we wanted an EV for power backup for the house. We get ice storms in the winter and it can knock out power for days, and we need to be able to keep almost 1,000 gallons of aquariums running during them. The F150 extended range has that in spades and was cheaper than the equivalent power wall system.
It's basically a whole house backup generator that we can happen to drive around.
The frunk on the F150-Lightning has not been praised enough. It's a really great truck, but having that giant storage space that locks makes it so much better than anything else out there if that's what you need.
You'd think they'd emphasize the singe cab at least a little since the frunk does the job most people use the second row for.
Lightning was crew cab only.
I know. I think that's dumb. At least offer extended if not single.
The fascinating thing for me was that they actually had trouble selling it ( and thus the production stop and fairly aggressive incentives to sell the remaining ones off ). I really do enjoy mine and I swear I was not a truck person.
it’s pretty much useless for anything you would actually use a truck for
You know how I know you're not an F150 lightning owner?
It's as capable, if not more so, than your standard F150 at truck duties in everything except towing. And it's a bit of a mixed bag there, it can tow way more than a standard f150, but it cuts the range to 1/3 so you have to charge pretty often. Still, 100 miles towing 10,000 pounds is nothing to sneeze at.
I owned one, and I'd say it's as capable in truck duties as a crew-cab short-bed F-150, which is to say, not very much. Can't fit a full sheet of drywall in the bed, etc. The short-bed crew-cab F-150 is by day a carpool vehicle with room for everyone's toolboxes and by night a family minivan that can hold everyone's sports bags. That was perfect for me, I knew what I was getting, but even the gasser short-beds are pretty useless as trucks.
i can’t imagine any situation where 100 miles of towing would be useful
I mean, there is a part of me that is kinda ok lightning being one of those 'if you know, you know' kinda cars. It is still kinda weird reading this, because it does not seem to be an isolated opinion. My extended family member voiced something similar.
like cybertruck? :)
Yeah I didn’t get one to do “truck stuff”. I pay people to do truck stuff for me, and use my “not a truck” truck for shuttling my family around. Never saw any R1T or F150 lightning or god forbid, Hummer EV truck owners do truck stuff either.
yes, those aren’t selling either
f150 power boost is superior, has all the features you mention but you can use gasoline to keep your generator going
Why would I want to lug around an engine everywhere I go? I'd only need it like once or twice a year.
As for the generator aspect, with its 135 kWh battery pack, I can power the aquariums for weeks and weeks.
>A Tesla will out accelerate all but the most niche cars now.
Claims presented without evidence. My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened. (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher. My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving. Neither of those cars are "niche".
> My slightly modified Subaru Wagon from '05 "out-accelerated" base Teslas - dead even in 1st gear, started pulling once the shift to 2nd happened.
Slightly modified is doing some heavy lifting there. No 2005 Subaru wagon in stock config is anywhere close to beating a Model 3.
> (Most) EVs cannot shift gears to get torque multiplication, so they start fast, but fall off as speeds get higher.
Pretty much irrelevant, because they’re still blisteringly fast up to 60 which is where most of the acceleration happens in day to day. Nobody really cares about 60-80 or 60-100.
> My Kia gas car will outrun all but the model 3 performance - which the average person is NOT driving.
What Kia is that? Even the stinger GT (which is definitely a niche car) is slower than a regular dual motor model 3.
'05 Legacy GT - turbo motor from the STI. With a tune, it was 300+ HP. MULTIPLE runs against Tesla model 3s from a stop - I won most of them.
'19 Stinger GT AWD. jb4 (piggyback) - dual model 3 couldn't pass me on track (he had more experience than I did) - he cornered a little better due to low center-of-mass, I pulled on him in the straights. Repeatedly.
> '05 Legacy GT - turbo motor from the STI. With a tune, it was 300+ HP. MULTIPLE runs against Tesla model 3s from a stop - I won most of them.
I'd believe it. I wouldn't call adding 20%+ horsepower to a car 'slightly' modifying it though. The original point still stands that your niche car (a performance version of the Subaru Legacy, with a tune on top of it) still barely manages to go toe-to-toe with a stock Model 3. If you left it stock, it would definitely be slower.
> '19 Stinger GT AWD. jb4 (piggyback) - dual model 3 couldn't pass me on track (he had more experience than I did) - he cornered a little better due to low center-of-mass, I pulled on him in the straights. Repeatedly.
So, you're proving my point? Stinger GT is already a niche car. You then threw a tune on it, which is even more niche. Compare it to a performance model 3 if you want to be fair in that case. I guarantee there's more performance model 3 owners than there are Stinger GT owners.
Another reason it's irrelevant is you just don't need the accel. Flooring a Tesla is fun once or twice, but if you floor it every chance you get I don't want to be your passenger. It's neither comfortable nor safe.
Good for safety and smiles though
EV motors can rev insanely high, so they don't need to shift gears, while most gas engines are limited to 6-7k RPM from factory. Thus the gassers need gears that essentially torque divide to reduce RPMs. You are very confused.
I’m guessing your ‘slightly modified Subaru’ is an ‘05 Impreza STi (276 HP stock) with a chip and higher boost? That is a niche car.
It’s not particularly noteworthy that the road version a vehicle used by Subaru’s WRC team can keep up with a Tesla if you modify the ECU and add more boost.
This doesn't make any sense. You can do a < 5 second 0-60 in your Subaru or Kia?
Comments like this are pretty useless unless you bring numbers.
I probably have a better house in Utah than many Silicon Valley CEOs have in the Bay Area, but they have better weather.
It's close to true about personal computers. The poorest can't afford Apple computers, but you don't need to be that rich to buy Apple hardware and what's up from that in terms of mainstream status? Nothing, as far as I can see. Specific groups might want a Framework laptop or System76, but those brands are invisible to most people, including, it seems, most rich people.
(And for servers and other business machines, well, other criteria apply, but owning something in the Top500 has to count for something in terms of prestige.)
> Or go on international trips more than once a year
Or, hell, go on trips period, let alone once a year. I went a couple states over last September to visit a friend and it damn near broke my wallet. I didn't even fly either. Just drove.
There was a time when some people were paying “10x” the price of regular water for “raw” water. It was stupid but there is little chance your average Jane and Joe on the street aspired to buy that water. Of anything it was a the butt of some of their jokes.
Hey! The president eats BigMacs dontcha know!
Admittedly that’s because he’s an overgrown child, but what the hey.
It's not the same, but concerts used to be affordable. Now they are insane. I'm incredibly fortunate that I have a high paying job and can afford to go to shows if I wanted to but I refuse to pay these insane ticket prices. Same with sports. I no longer have any desire to go to an MLB game and get fleeced with a $15 bud light. I'll go to some minor league game in a shitty stadium with no special amenities and enjoy a baseball experience. We are at the breaking point and it's showing.
Earlier today I read how World Cup resale tickets are dropping below face value for many of the upcoming matches. This evening I read that FIFA tripled the price for the best seats. Bifurcation indeed.
the minor league stadiums i've been to in Texas were on par with the mega stadiums, just smaller (and cheaper!)
you'll get a kick out of this. one concrt hall i went to recently was charging THIRTY THREE DOLLARS for a single shot of Whistle Pig. Not even the good stuff.
> with the influx of newer premium brands and the fracturing of American consumers
I don't find it unfortunate, but I also think this is a bit of a misdiagnosis of the problem.
Coke is a bad example of this because it's mostly unchanged (and when they did try to change it, it became infamous. The "new coke" change). For almost all other american consumer products, the old time well known brands have decided to cut corners and cheap out on production. It's particularly obvious with restaurants where so many of the old chains have moved over to pre-prepped microwaved foods instead of actually cooking in house.
Americans have learned that brands can't be trusted to maintain quality. If a company can get away with it, they'll use any sort of deception to raise the price or cheap out on the ingredients. And they relied heavily on "it's X brand" to keep selling the lower quality goods.
That, IMO, is what's driven americans to brand fracture. People have learned that for a lot of clothing there's no difference between what they get from Temu and what they get from Old Navy. In fact, there's a real good chance those goods were made in the same factory.
> you can drink Coke, too
I drink water. Which means I'm just like Cristiano Ronaldo[1].
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ZLS1V3iMw
American capitalism, for all its defects, was always a mass oriented endeavour in constrast with Continental Europe.
The mantra was sell more, more, more and more, and to do that, you need to sell things to poor people to. A French enterpreneur would be happy selling phones only for the upper middle class and above. In America the idea was to install as many landlines as possible and gain with scale.
Exactly. The deeper wisdom is that the current bifurcated US economy reveals the malaise at the heart of modern America.
When a company can make more profit by catering to the ultra-rich-only than selling a quality mass-market product at a reasonable price to masses, that says a lot about the economic segmentation of those masses.
> American capitalism, for all its defects, was always a mass oriented endeavour in constrast with Continental Europe.
I think it's important to call out that the "capitalism = more stuff" idea is a bit of historical revisionism.
Soviet leaders very specifically saw the goal of Communism was to create abundance and a post scarcity society. There are lots of quotes in particular from Khrushchev about this:
“The socialist system will outstrip capitalism in labor productivity. It will provide the people with more goods, more cultural benefits, and ensure a higher standard of living.”
“Communism is the highest form of organization of society for labor. On the basis of powerful productive forces, it ensures the highest productivity of labor and abundance of material and cultural values for the whole people.”
And it's worth pointing out that that this isn't a Soviet invention. Marx himself made it a central point that material deprivation was an ill (not a feature) of captialism:
"After the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly — only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety…”
“The possibility of securing for every member of society, by means of socialized production, an existence not only fully sufficient materially… but guaranteeing them the free development and exercise of their physical and mental faculties — this possibility is now for the first time here.”
When communist abundance failed to materialize, there was a concerted effort to reframe the promise of communism to be purely one of egalitarianism and turn overconsumption against the West as a criticism.
Soviet Ideology and Lenin in particular deturpated Marxism.
For Marx, capitalism is historically revolutionary precisely because it expands productive forces at a scale impossible under feudalism. In the Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels explicitly say the bourgeoisie created “more massive and more colossal productive forces” than earlier generations, and then argue that capitalism becomes self-contradictory because those productive forces outgrow capitalist property relations, producing crises of overproduction and destruction of wealth.
We can even say, that is a strict reading of Marx, communism is impossible if the problem of scarcity hasn't been solved before.
Marxism requires abundance as a material precondition for higher communism
> In the Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels explicitly say the bourgeoisie created “more massive and more colossal productive forces” than earlier generations, and then argue that capitalism becomes self-contradictory
and then left this thought (every system outgrows itself and becomes self-contradictory) applied to communism as an exercise to readers, which gave us Lenin and Stalin's (and Mao's) permanent bloody revolution as a pupil's halfbaked attempt at a solution, because their attempt to create communism contradicted itself way before it succeeded.
> I think it's important to call out that the "capitalism = more stuff" idea is a bit of historical revisionism.
As always with communism, there's the lofty ideals and quotes on what it should be, but then there's the contrasting reality of Continental Europe's run at communism producing way less stuff.
The irony is that, in contrast to their relative positions in the 1960s, communism (in the political-economic Marxian sense) vs capitalism (in the 2026 sense) is now more true to the original communist view above.
To wit, that end stage capitalism has become an ouroboros eating its own tail that profits off artificial scarcity, while communism's primary defect (an inability to execute economic planning at a pace, scale, and granularity required to run a country well) is now technologically-feasible.
Though the greatest enemy to communism was always the people who made up the party and their fallibility as human beings.
So you’re saying China is in the drivers’s seat to make Marxist-Communism a reality?
I would say that OpenAI, Anthropic and Donald Trump are the vanguard of the proletarian revolution.
Is this sarcasm?
Please tell me this is sarcasm.
I didn't say that this is their intention.
But it surely looks to me like they are accelerating a movement towards a giant crisis of the capitalist system.
So an unintended side effect?
I bet if they wrote a 100 year plan then taking a detour through selling things to Capitalist countries is part of the plan to getting to a Marxist utopia.
> Unfortunately I think America is starting to lose this way a bit, with the influx of newer premium brands
Witness Erewhon fruit juices/smoothies.
An Italian man once told me, "Coca-Cola is American champagne." Take it as you will.
It's only Coca-Cola if it comes from the Appellation d’Origine Contrôlée of Atlanta, otherwise it's only a sparking cola beverage.
I thought that was Miller High Life.
Was that during our prohibition?
Andy Warhol was an apologist for the toxic consumer culture in the US. It’s a big part of why he was so successful.
Coke is a great example. There’s no product more useless and unnecessary than that flavored fizzy sugar water. Or should I say, high fructose corn syrup water. If you drink it, why? Probably because you were indoctrinated since childhood. Same goes for pretty much all fast food. There’s nothing good or desirable about any of it unless you’ve been indoctrinated into thinking that.
> There’s nothing good or desirable about any of it unless you’ve been indoctrinated into thinking that.
Ah, that's too harsh.
Sugar water tastes good. Fast food is made quickly and it tastes good. There's no "indoctrination" that happens to make people realize that.
I agree that coke has 0 nutritional value. However, the flavor is agreeable to most people.
You were addicted as a child to something unhealthy, and that's why it's indoctrination.
> However, the flavor is agreeable to most people.
Only because most people have undergone that indoctrination.
You can't imagine that people could try Coke and think "what is this ridiculously sugary shit?" The reason you can't imagine that? Indoctrination.
Coke is amazingly popular around the entire world, though. You can go to China, India, South Africa, and find Coke for sale and selling well even though they have their own traditional beverages. Obviously sugar water isn't very good for you -- it's liquid candy, but the idea that people only drink it if they've been "indoctrinated" isn't very likely.
The turn-off with Coke is usually the carbonation. The appeal of sugar is quite primal.
No.
I have a son with severe autism. Indoctrination doesn't work on him because he doesn't even understand it.
We have actively kept soda away from him because it's bad for his teeth.
And yet, he absolutely loves the stuff (family members gave it to him). He even has severe food aversions limiting what he's willing to try.
You can't convince me that the only reason people like sugar water is because of indoctrination. That's just silly.
> You can't imagine that people could try Coke and think "what is this ridiculously sugary shit?" The reason you can't imagine that? Indoctrination.
You are replying to someone saying "agreeable to most people" (emphasis mine).
Very clearly, they are perfectly able to imagine what you claim they can't imagine.
Modern US coke doesn't taste much like the coke I drank growing up (late 70s, early 80s, before they switched over). I remember drinking "a perfect coke" on a hot day, it tasted almost "botanical". These days, the closest thing I can find is Mexican Coke (which they sell at Costco), it's a lot dryer (less sweet) tasting to me than US coke.
That's because Mexican Coke has sugar instead of high-fructose corn syrup.
Sometimes on a hot day for the short period the kid's napping I find myself at Home Depot searching for this or that tired from the work week under pressure as the clock ticks down having no idea what I'm doing and I make it to checkout tired no exhausted and I see the ice cold cooler the Coke its last moments before it's soaked with condensation open the door scan it rush to the car twist it open it screams wow sometimes there's nothing like an ice cold Coke.
There's two takes on America.
One: It's terrible that you're shopping at a big box hardware retailer instead of a local hardware store and drinking high fructose mass market soda.
The other: Home Depot usually has what's needed, at a decent price, nearby. And Coke from the cooler next to the cash register is convenient, cold, and delicious.
Neither of these are wrong, and they're both worth keeping simultaneously in mind: life should be both aspirational and satisfying.
The French, I guess kinda the paragons of mom and pop (well along with Italy and Japan) still built out lots of carrefours where lots of people go shopping for stuff while still enjoying the corner pastry shop and non-chain coffee shop.
As you say it’s not one or the other.
Just went to my neighborhood HW store yesterday. They didn't have any of what I needed, so now I'll be going to Home Depot.
I just wanted some landscaping rocks. I didn't think I was asking for much....
Home Depot Coke. $3, and in a plastic bottle. The worst Coke.
At least the grocery store sells cups at the register and there's delicious fountain Coke to be had on your way out the door.
What region are you in that grocery stores sell fountain drinks? Never seen this in the NW US.
Publix in the southeast and Wegmans in the northeast both have fountain drinks.
Midwest. Kroger, Meijer, plus Costco and Sam's Club.
Washington State has grocery stores that sell fountain drinks. Yoke's:
https://shop.yokesfreshmarkets.com/store/yokes-fresh-market/...
...also WinCo Foods. Or at least the closest one to me does, right next to the in-store pizza counter.
Indoctrination via decades of advertisements in clear demonstration. The imagery from this description are taken directly from coke advertisements. Either that or this is a parody.
Or, humor me, bubbly cold sugar water tastes good when you're hot and tired.
> Indoctrination via decades of advertisements in clear demonstration. The imagery from this description are taken directly from coke advertisements. Either that or this is a parody.
How can you be so sure you've broken free of the indoctrination, when what you have written is also the product of indoctrination? The only practical difference is the banner under which the indoctrination happened under.
I suppose but fizzy drinks while not as popular today were yet pretty popular before the aftermath of WWII unleashed a vigorous advertising industry. Sure before then you had roadside painted signs (T bar style) but it’s not attributable to saturation.
People have been drinking syrup mixed with water for centuries, maybe even Millenia.
Wikipedia dates the popularity of soft drinks to the medieval middle east, but the origins of sweet fruity water are thought to be ~400 BC Persia at least.
Coke Classic is much better as a cooking ingredient than it is a soft drink, IMO. Diet Coke is a different matter for me.
Absolute shit take. Coke provides untold joy to countless people. You can psychoanalyze why until youre blue in the face, but the joy is real.
> In some countries I had to make a conscious effort to try to wear clothes from acceptable brands and swap my functional laptop bag for something more stylish to avoid letting my purchasing habits become a point of judgment from others.
It is kind of fascinating, having come from such a culture, to realize that in the end, Americans, at least the average of the America I met, are not nearly brand conscious as I and everyone in my place supposed them to be.
Of course, America is a fucking giant and diverse place, and I think that even native born Americans have no fucking idea of how many different Americas exist, so, take my views of America with a giant grain of salt.
> It is kind of fascinating, having come from such a culture, to realize that in the end, Americans, at least the average of the America I met, are not nearly brand conscious as I and everyone in my place supposed them to be.
Speaking as an American with a formative decade overseas, I think some of that may come from the economics of international trade.
People think about a faraway place based on what gets transported and sold from there. If a country's most-visible exports are gourmet food, you'd start thinking that perhaps the average resident is a gourmand. In the case of the US, those "cultural exports" often involve branded goods, copyrighted media, food franchises, etc.
The brand that's 'Australian for beer' is very difficult to find in its domestic market!
That brand was in fact created for the American market, I recall. Australians also don't talk about "throwing another shrimp on the barbie". That's another Americanism. We call them prawns.
Oh boy. Next you’re gonna tell me the blooming onion isn’t an Australian cultural tradition! (lol)
I see you've played knifey-spoony before.
Savages
Nit: a gourmand is the opposite of a gourmet
Nit of the nit: there are multiple usages and one of them is
> One who is fond of delicate fare; a judge of good eating. (Cf. gourmet n.)
https://www.oed.com/dictionary/gourmand_adj?tab=meaning_and_...
How so?
Quantity.
The original usage of Gourmand was synonymous with gluttony and excess; while a gourmet might be satisfied with exquisitely prepared micro portions tucked away within an expansive plate criss crossed by a drizzle of ??, a gourmand wants the full stack pyramided to the maximal stope angle.
> The original usage of Gourmand was synonymous with gluttony and excess; while a gourmet might be satisfied with exquisitely prepared micro portions
Even if you removed the word "might", they wouldn't be opposites. With it, they're even further from opposites.
> they're even further from opposites.
I made no claim they were opposites, read again, that was another commenter.
I answered the question as to the distinction between two words, I did not assert the two words were opposite.
> I made no claim they were opposites, read again, that was another commenter.
I didn't say you made the claim. "Read again" right back at you...?
But come on, the comment you replied to was "How so?", asking how they were opposites.
You were clearly reinforcing the claim with your answer. If you didn't want to do that, you should have started with something like "They're not, but"
2: one who is heartily interested in good food and drink
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gourmand
Been a long time since it was purely about quantity.
Well, you had to go to #2 of several definitions in an American English dictionary for that secondary devolved meaning.
Additionally, "heartily interested" in English usage implies an enthusiastic excess, large amounts, etc.
Still, it appears we agree about the original and primary usage.
As does your link via #1
You're doing okay on stope angle I'm guessing.
"Going to definition #2" is an arbitrary rule that you just made up. Same with an American dictionary vs British or whatever.
The Oxford dictionary also has both definitions, with the general use going back to 1758.
> 2.1758–One who is fond of delicate fare; a judge of good eating. (Cf. gourmet n.)
[0]: https://www.oed.com/dictionary/gourmand_adj?tab=meaning_and_...
> an arbitrary rule that you just made up.
No, it's an observation that the first primary usage seemed to disagree (not that it did) and so it was observed that the second alt was used by the commenter above
OED has a lot to say about gourmand, Chesterfield in his 1758 letter that you quoted was saying that the Landgrave has a well stocked table .. good food and a lot of it, for he is a Gourmand. Following that Chesterfield example is a 1816 Coleridge extract from Statesman's Man that also about having a lot (but with no talent for preparation) - excess over taste:
And, again, the first 1a primary most common usage cited in the OED is: It's a usage that has morphed in recent times, sure .. but as seen in the OED for a great deal of time the emphasis has always been on the quantity of good food rather than mere quality of good food.This really gets on my nerves. ishouldstayaway provided a perfectly valid resource to support the initial statement that gourmand isn't just about quantity anymore.
> Well, you had to go to #2
This is clearly a disparaging remark meant to discredit their comment. So what if it's #2? It's a definition in multiple dictionaries. This usage warranted its own definition.
> in an American English dictionary
Same thing here- italicizing American as if it means anything. Again, both Merriam Webster and the OED carry both definitions.
> It's a usage that has morphed in recent times, sure
"Recent" being 1758. 268 years. Long enough that it doesn't warrant a nit anymore.
> the first 1a primary
Again: the non-quantity usage warranted a dictionary definition.
> Following that Chesterfield example is a 1816 Coleridge extract
Ignoring the 1804 extract before that and the extracts after it.
All in all I find this type of interaction (needing to be "correct" instead of accepting that there are multiple usages) to be extremely distasteful, leaving a sour taste in my mouth.
> instead of accepting that there are multiple usages
Yeah, maybe slow your roll and think about that, along with everything else you've projected.
Clearly I accepted there are multiple usages, I specifically mentioned multiple definitions above.
> Clearly I accepted there are multiple usages, I specifically mentioned multiple definitions above.
You mentioned it in a way that makes #2 sound irrelevant because it's not the "original and primary definition" and diminished it with "recent times".
This is what people are taking issue with.
You're not actually accepting that definition as a proper definition. You're treating it like a minor offshoot.
And I have no idea why you think they're projecting.
I accepted it as a secondary definition (because, as numbered, it is a secondary definition) that also happens to support the primary definition;
I suspect the two commenters are reading more into my comments than was intended.Let me guess: you're also the kind of insufferable (and similarly incorrect) pedant who insists that "decimate" still means "reduce by one tenth"?
No.
Try harder.
Gourmand still, in large parts of the English speaking world, carries large overtones of excessive eating under the guise of quality eating.
If I were to make a guess, I suspect that in your part of the world some of the French persuasion made frequent reference to those that overstack their plates as gourmands and it has since locally become synonymous with gourmet as the troll escaped them.
American here, only every heard it meaning someone who likes fancy food.
Never heard of it being a fat person, except in so far as the word is old fashioned enough to conjure the image of a fancy dressed fat person eating fancy food.
I have lived in the United States for all of my 59 years and have never heard or seen it used as meaning anything other than glutton.
Which is really no better evidence than you offer.
Same. "Gourmand" has always been linked to "gourmet" in my brain. However wrong according to the "dictionaries", I've seen it mean the same in colloquial use in a couple of languages I'm familiar with.
> Nit: a gourmand is the opposite of a gourmet
> The original usage of Gourmand was
Your original “well actually” is incorrect by your own admission. The correct statement is “a gourmand [was] [in some sense] the opposite of a gourmet”.
Not as punchy. I can see why you exaggerated, but as a fellow pedant I can’t approve of the misinformation.
> Of course, America is a fucking giant and diverse place, and I think that even native born Americans have no fucking idea of how many different Americas exist, so, take my views of America with a giant grain of salt.
I've been around a good amount of the US and yeah, being very judgey on brands just doesn't seem to be much of a thing. Maybe if I hung around rich people it'd be different, but I do know some rich people and they typically don't seem to give a shit either.
> Maybe if I hung around rich people it'd be different
Most rich people I know not only dont give a shit a brands, they actively judge you negatively for buying expensive brands that they see as non-utilitarian. Not even a tech thing either, maybe it's because chicago has a generally blue collar vibe and it would be different with rich people on the coasts, but I know many rich people and almost all of them judge for wasting money and buying into advertising psyops
Not only are we not all brand conscious, some of us are so brand-blind that we buy clothes with large ads printed all over.
Well, other countries are diverse too. What Aurornis experiences is just a tiny fraction of other countries.
> Of course, America is a fucking giant and diverse place, and I think that even native born Americans have no fucking idea of how many different Americas exist, so, take my views of America with a giant grain of salt.
And yet somehow, with first 3/4 of this sentence, you've given a more accurate story about America than is almost ever provided!
I mean there's probably some correlation between arriving at this conclusion and the fact that most Americans establishing any sort of presence outside the US are probably influencers who are being bought to wear product. Hasan, for example, has a pretty decent user base outside the US, and literally wears nothing but designer clothing (which I always found comically ironic, given his political views).
I had a recent conversation with a colleague out of SE Asia and it was surprising to me how little access they have to a diversity of product. For example, I was describing my homelab which uses a lot of Minisforum hardware (mostly due to size constraints) and I found out that, despite literally being geographically closer, said product could not be purchased in their country. So I would imagine that leads to more homogenization than what might occur in the States. But that's just my ignorant conjecture.
And yet, Thorsten Veblen was American. Have we mellowed out since his observations about "veblen goods"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
>build identities through [...] purchasing habits
> foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant
But you are, yourself, defining yourself partially here through your own purchasing habits. In fact you are doing it to a far more universal degree than most of the ones you criticize.
Not that I'm immune to it, but nor do I claim to be. I think it's useful signal just like anything else. Watch: My quintessential American habit is that I wear roughly the same nondescript black T shirt, black boxer briefs, black socks, and maybe an unlabeled black hoddie that I purchase off of Amazon, mostly just sorting by ratings. If at any point I reach into my closet and the stock-flow system that is my laundry habits have deemed it such that I am actually out of stock of any of these items, I immediately go to Amazon and purchase another 6- or 4- or 12-pack. If you feel you understand me better as a person after reading all that, you probably do.
Exposing my superficiality, perhaps: but it pains me that you don't wear pants.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
You mean leg prisons?
To add to your point: Someone should let the author know that considering oneself informed and taste-driven is itself cheugy. The performative aspect is the essence of cheug. So I hope he was being ironic.
Costco itself, in a way, is a sort of Wittgenstein's ladder, or Wittgenstein's warehouse, because eventually you realize that everything sold under the Kirkland label is just a de-badged top brand. If you still reach for brand names for staple goods at Costco knowing full well the Kirkland product is either the same or superior, then you know that the shadows of brand names still haunt you and occlude your sight. When you are able to escape these shadows and see the sun, then you are free.
While true concerning the quality of Kirkland brand, sometimes there are still differences that can matter. I love the Kirkland bacon but they don't sell a thick cut version (at least at my Costco) so sometimes I buy the "brand name" instead.
That's interesting. Where I live, the thing that sticks out in my mind the most about buying Kirkland bacon from Costco, is how ridiculously thick-cut it is. It's literally the thickest bacon I've ever encountered lol
You are correct, I may have exaggerated a bit.
I also find it funny that many of the people who look down on Costco rave about Trader Joe's and find it cool -- even though, like Kirkland, Trader Joe's products are mostly de-badged brands as well.
> but in my travels and international business experience I wouldn’t even rank Americans in the top 10 for integrating brands and identity.
You can't just say this and leave us hanging. Which countries?
> I know some will try to turn this into a criticism of Americans, but in my travels and international business experience I wouldn’t even rank Americans in the top 10 for integrating brands and identity.
Can you give a few examples of those brand-centric cultures? Which product categories do they follow? I've never seen anything like this, so if I were to go to one of the places that has this culture, I should probably know about it in advance.
China, India, Singapore, and Korea are a few off the top of my head.
It sounds like you’ve just been around toxic and superficial people in your international travels and then extrapolated from them to their whole countries.
Unfortunately, they have people like that everywhere.
Not necessarily.
South Korea is one example that I have intimate knowledge of where one's consumer habits (the clothes one wears, the car one drives, the logo on one's handbag) is the ultimate signal of status.
You're automatically pre-judged by complete strangers without having to say a single word.
There are always exceptions to the rule, but it is in fact an unspoken rule over there.
The same is true in India. I live in the US, and when I visit relatives in India, they are nonplussed that I can afford a fancier car but choose to drive a Toyota. Clothes, watches, my phone brand - everything is under constant analysis and people feel free to comment on everything. I am used to it now but it gets tiring.
Was going to say this. Am in the US, and have Indian friends, and they are much more brand conscious than the average American.
Living in Canada, I specially choose clothes without branding or branding I can remove.
I don't advertise for free.
Yeah, that's been my strategy since… college.
Nike logo? Polo logo?
Not a chance.
No-logo clothes are actually the ultimate flex now...
That's fine, ha ha. I kind of hate corporations.
Try my best to do the same:)
are you not describing "toxic and superficial" ? I specifically take issue with pre-judgement based on clothes, cars, and logos.
I think he was saying it was an unfair extrapolation to say that OP's limited experience with a small subset of people defined an entire nation.
I'm saying that in the case of South Korea, that extrapolation is very much accurate.
superficial maybe, "toxic" is your own personal idealogy
Nope, the US (especially the West Coast and Mountain States) is extremely non superficial in certain very odd ways: * Almost nobody cares what kind of car you drive. The richest people I know literally don't care and drive Subarus and Toyotas and Ford pickups. * Nobody cares about watches or jewelry. * Clothing? It's literally Costco or Walmart for people I know who have tons of money. Unless their wives/gfs/bfs/husbands buy them something fancy for their birthday. * Fancy wines and liquor? Wines yes, scotch yes. But it's not outrageous.
The things where you notice the money are private planes and nice houses/apartments (and multiples thereof) and art. And perhaps caring even less what people think of them.
In mountain states everything exposed to nature is just beaten into an average. The environment is so harsh it makes sense things affected aren’t much of a status symbol or at least don’t remain one for long hah.
Not just mountain states. I lived in one of the windy US deserts, and everything outside is minimally cared about because it's getting practically sand blasted several times a year.
Nobody is going to come to your funeral and tearfully wail that you had fabulous taste in handbags.
Brands may serve as camouflage when you're trying to conform, but conforming is not an identity. Your identity is based on what you create, not what you consume.
Depends on which funerals you go to.
I've absolutely heard eulogies that talk about stylish grandma was up to the very end. The could go on about how she never left the house without looking like she could have been ready for a photo shoot. How she brightened every gathering she was a part of, and even had this marvelous ability to pick the perfect accessories, including -- yes -- handbags.
You seem to be conflating two things that are different -- "fabulous taste", and "conforming/consuming". Putting together and accessorizing an outfit is an act of creation. Looking sharp is usually quite the opposite of conforming.
Remember that when you dress with style, you're brightening the day of the people who look at you, like a walking work of art. Some people look at it as vain, but other people understand it's making the world a more pleasant place, just like good manners or a helping attitude. If you can appreciate the way a tasteful statue adorns a park, you can appreciate the way a tasteful outfit -- handbag included -- does the same.
But, I won't be there to see how they feel about me at my funeral. I'm here now, to see how they treat me. So yes, doing things to conform / be one of the crowd may not be what people remember you for... but it may be what impacts your daily life.
Just an observation. My computer bag is older than most of my coworkers.
Disguises can be very useful, but one should be wary of becoming their disguise.
(If you're having to say this to someone, I suspect you are wasting your breath.)
The great thing about Costco is that everything they sell is reliably fine. Is it the best in the world? Probably not. But it's usually good. At worst it's average.
When I find myself reading Consumer Reports or The Wirecutter looking for "what is the best toothbrush" it's not that I actually need the best toothbrush. I'd be perfectly happy with a good toothbrush. What I'm trying to do is avoid spending a bunch of money on something that looked like a good option and turns out to be ineffective, unreliable, short-lived, or otherwise terrible. Most retailers are absolutely overrun with trash now.
Generally at Costco it's not a worry, if it's a crappy product they're not selling it.
This right here, other places have a store brand that can be good or mixed, as well as just plain trash in the aisles.
You know it's decent at Costco or you can return it in a few months when it craps out.
Meanwhile every other large retailer is trying to turn into a copy of Amazon where anyone can sell anything with no quality control
This is how I approach Costco. Everything there will meet a minimum standard, so I'm more willing to try something new. Also, the prices will pretty much always be fair. Could I track down a better deal somewhere else? Possibly but I usually don't want to expend that extra effort to save a buck or two.
> It’s a foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant if another company releases a better product.
Perhaps those folks found certain brands regularly have decent (enought) quality and stick with them, and/or they have a personal aesthetic that they've developed that may be 'limited' to certain brands.
Some folks also don't want to go through the effort of constantly/regularly (re-)evaluating things: they've found that Brand X gives them enough quality/value, and have stopped looking.
> Some folks also don't want to go through the effort of constantly/regularly (re-)evaluating things: they've found that Brand X gives them enough quality/value, and have stopped looking
This argument stops holding water when those same people start judging other people for not also using Brand X.
> Some people are proud of their Audi or designer bag, but I rarely run into situations where I’d be judged for arriving in a sensible Subaru instead of a Mercedes.
I agree. You can go into Costco and see a store full of individuals who happen to be shopping at Costco that day, or you can go to Costco and see the same people as slaves to an imagined Costco lifestyle that you can then write about for 800 words. It says more about the author than the shoppers. This article is the worst kind of lifestyle trend engineering.
Slaves to an imagined Costco lifestyle? That's not the vibe I picked up from the article at all.
I enjoyed reading about the writer realizing he's turning into his father and taking photos of things his dad used to buy to share with his mom. He spots people that may be falling in love. Clumsy people apologizing to nobody. He counts eight different languages.
I thought it was charming and a little nostalgic.
I would agree. The implicit (or actually pretty explicit in a couple of sentences) class disdain is so tiring.
You should probably read the whole article. Those sentences are dripping with irony that is entirely wrung out of them when they are quoted here.
> It’s a foreign concept for many of us who seek out the best product or deals for each purchase and will change brands in an instant if another company releases a better product.
For those of us who grew up in the era of the "Are you a Mac or a PC" [1], many Americans are intimately familiar with the concept of brand identity.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_a_Mac
Mac, yes. But I feel like being a "PC user" was never a coherent social identity. People use PCs for various reasons, usually pragmatic.
(Reflecting on it, I don't think I ever knew anyone who was "loyal" to Microsoft, or, dare I say, even particularly liked them as a company. At least certainly not the way people like Apple.)
In that sense, I feel as though Apple is the exception that proves the rule. There are really (almost) no other brands in Americans' everyday lives that elicit such a strong brand identity.
> But I feel like being a "PC user" was never a coherent social identity.
But there were people who were vocally non-Mac, dismissing it as “great for students and graphic designers”, but not a computer for real work.
(That was me in the 90’s. Of course eventually I began working on a Mac professionally.)
Yeah I could see that. I think Apple being naturally more vertically integrated (controlling the hardware and the software), was able to establish a stronger narrative around its identity early on in order to court certain types of people.
There are certain cases where brand attachment is stronger, but overall brand attachment in the US is pretty weak.
Where?
I feel like logos are 100% done now.
The best clothes here in Sweden, from our own Swedish brands, have no logos. And have not been for a long time. Scandinavian minimalism and quality is the best.
Asia is the one obsessed with brands. Europe is not. We care about quality.
But quality is strongly associated with brand. Showing off the logo might be taboo, but everyone can tell the difference between an IKEA kitchen and a Funkiskök.
Yes, but one is obviously better than the other.
I actually like this as someone with a big logo gucci bag is easy to frame right away as a terrible human.
No irony in judging someone as a “terrible human” based on superficial signals because they seemingly care about superficial signals?
Honest question: What does it matter if others judge you, in this time? Back in the day I understand; you'd be ostracized from the group or killed, but in this day and age people just give you a side eye or murmur at best. It really doesn't affect anything anymore. Why should we care?
I don't think much of class, but caring about brands is low class behavior (present in both the poor and the rich).
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Man, you must move in some shitty circles, no polite way of saying that. The other option is that its self-projection, I've met folks like that who overanalyzed to death what they thought others were thinking, usually being completely wrong since few other folks have OCDish personalities like them.
This is not how we generally work in Europe, but you were not precise of your destinations. Life in 2026 ain't some Victorian novel.
Heh, I haven't seen it myself, but I'm suddenly reminded about derision for having blue (or was it green?) bubbles.
South Korea?
-- I actively seek out the Kirkland clothes.
But there's a cult following for various Costco products including food. The frozen croissants, the ~$5 rotisserie chicken, the vodka. The generic clothes items, shirts, socks etc. The pizza.
I don't even have a Costco membership! Maybe this is a Socal/urban thing?
In any case, I think you're overthinking it, people love Costco.
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Feudal Japan had a measurement called the "koku", which is roughly the amount of rice needed to feed a person for a year: about 330 lb. You can now buy 50 lb. of rice at Costco for $30, which is a few hours of work at minimum wage.
To me, that is a modern marvel. I don't want people to buy things that they don't need, and I also don't like the crowds, but I can't help but feel grateful for a stocked grocery store that is accessible to basically everyone—isn't that the dream?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koku
I wish Costco were accessible to basically everyone. Among some poorer people I've got to know in the SF Bay Area, having the card and confidence in the means to use it are a mark of the middle class, an aspirational thing.
Membership is an up-front cost. That excludes those who can't part with the cash for no immediate benefit. Depending on what you buy, and what else is available around you, breakeven can take a good part of the year and a sizable number of purchases. Basically, you have to have the cash flow to play with money over time, even over a short timeline like an annual membership cycle.
Costco also sells many if not all items in relatively large quantity, so membership makes more sense for those who can afford to pre-buy and store more than they need. It's the inverse of something like a so-called dollar store, which is too often where poor people get stuck buying smaller than grocery-standard quantities at higher per-unit costs.
Of course, sometimes it makes sense to pool funds, buy together on one membership, and break packs. That costs coordination. Corner stores in poorer areas where I live often do this, with business memberships and resale certificates. At a margin, of course.
I can't pretend to truly understand what it's like not being able to afford Costco. But I've had some opportunities to hear people who see it as out of reach. And to make some trips with "guests".
I dont understand this. All Costco memberships are functionally $65 at most. How is this beyond literally anyone in America? Am I so out of touch? Why would corner stores have to pool together to get a membership when they absolutely negate the cost of the membership from the cashback? You only have to spend roughly $6,500/year for the executive membership of $130 to cost zero. That seems like something a corner store in any neighborhood wouldn't have much issue doing. As for the non store owners... $65 is the cost of one or two fast food meals. I don't believe this.
To maybe add some framing, 37% of Americans don’t have enough cash to cover a $400 unexpected expense. Obviously $400 > $65 but I think it puts some perspective on how tight cash flow is for a good chunk of the population.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/consumerscommunities/sheddata...
> enough cash to cover
You don't need to buy the membership with cash. Credit card, pay off $3-5 a week with your food savings, you'll barely pay any interest.
Also not having $400 would have to be the number after buying food with your paycheck, right? If you get the membership as part of your first food purchase, including that nice bag of rice, you'll be okay.
> You don't need to buy the membership with cash. Credit card, pay off $3-5 a week with your food savings, you'll barely pay any interest.
I’m guessing you don’t know many lower income people.
Not only are credit cards generally not part of the picture for these folks, but often they don’t even have bank accounts.
You’re not mathematically wrong, but you assume that everyone has a rational disciplined approach to their finances, and a reasonably stable income behind that.
And for buying in bulk (which is basically what Costco offers) to work, you need a larger amount of available cash up front, and a home with sufficient safe space for storage.
And of course you need some sort of transport to bring your bulk purchases home from the Costco, often built on cheap land away from dense housing.
> you assume that everyone has a rational disciplined approach to their finances, and a reasonably stable income behind that.
I'm not assuming that. If you get a paycheck at all you can impulse buy a $65 thing.
> And for buying in bulk (which is basically what Costco offers) to work, you need a larger amount of available cash up front, and a home with sufficient safe space for storage.
The bag of rice is cheap and compact, along with many other options. Your upfront need can be covered by your normal spend.
Yes it does need a mild amount of safety.
> transport
For sure, but I was responding about the $65 issue.
> > you assume that everyone has a rational disciplined approach to their finances, and a reasonably stable income behind that.
> I'm not assuming that. If you get a paycheck at all you can impulse buy a $65 thing.
Not to buy the membership, but to gain meaningful benefit from it afterwards by buying in bulk in the long term, despite the greater upfront cost, motivation, planning, etc. that that requires.
It doesn't require greater motivation or planning. You just say "oh yeah I have a membership I should go there".
If you want it, it's one choice to make. No extra discipline.
As someone who has shopped at Costco using public transportation, that’s where your IKEA bags come into play. And you avoid bulk liquids at all costs.
and what iphone model do these americans have?
I would be very very surprised if there were not adjustments that could be made that would significantly uplift these peoples situation
> and what iphone model do these americans have?
A smartphone is not an optional component of modern life. You need a smartphone to apply for many minimum wage jobs now
way to misrepresent what i said. you can do that from the cheapest secondhand phone. What do you think most of these people have?
You’re probably a professional with a good wage. The working poor are too poor to have much and too rich to be poor and get benefits. They are cashflow constrained.
When I coached little league, we had parents who walked miles to games because the bus fare (1.50) for 3-4 people would push them over the edge. Vulture companies like dollar general exist because they sell consumer staples in smaller quantities at a slightly lower price, but much higher unit cost.
Costco uses an upfront membership to allow you to buy large units of products at a consistently good price. The consumer needs excess cash flow for it to work. Saving on toilet paper doesn’t work if I can’t make my car payment.
I’ve never been “need to stop at the food bank” poor thankfully, but I have been “dinner this week is rice and 50¢ frozen pot pies”, “living with 4 other people to make rent”, “boss I need more hours or I literally can’t afford the gas to come to work for the hours you’ve scheduled me” poor. And even in those times one of my very first purchases was a BJs membership (Costco like club) because it was absolutely cheaper to buy a lot of my groceries and food stuffs that way.
It is possible to be too poor to afford a membership club (even Sam’s Club). But you absolutely do not need to be a “professional with a good wage” to afford it or benefit from it.
Why are the dollar stores “vulture companies”? Costco and Trader Joes only puts their stores in or on the border of higher income neighborhoods. At least Dollar General is willing to locate their stores near poorer people.
Dollar General now has a similar profit margin to Costco:
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DG/dollar-general/...
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/profit...
Dollar Tree is slightly higher but much more volatile:
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/DLTR/dollar-tree/p...
Shit I guess I'm out of touch lol
No, you are not out of touch. Functionally everyone can afford a Costco membership and buy staples in bulk at a higher upfront but lower unit costs. The GP's comment about a family of four walking miles to a Little League game because they couldn't afford the bus fare is an extreme outlier.
There's a large overlap between people who cannot "afford" to shop at Costco and people who spend hundreds of dollars a month on scratch-offs. Whether or not someone shops at Costco is mostly a function of preferences and behavioral choices, not dollars.
It’s a banana, Michael, what can it cost, $65?
Family and neighbors shared Costco memberships when I was growing up. It's still accessible today to anyone who wants it
These are not out of luck people if this is a long term Problem. These are people who are chronically bad at allocating resources.
Even if they could afford the 65$ membership (yes anyone car). They couldn’t afford the per package goods. Is this even alluring to them? They demonstrate poor basic economic understanding.
The downvotes are hilarious.
Probably the same people who dump money into scams fronting as homeless assistance organizations.
Of course, there is no counter argument, just emotion.
> $65 is the cost of one or two fast food meals.
Okay I'm really curious, where do you live and what are you eating for a "fast food meal"? That's at least 10x what I pay for a fast food meal, and although I know California and other places are expensive, I wouldn't have guessed they are that expensive.
These days Taco Bell for two people will easily hit $15-20 and that’s at the drive through. If you’re crazy enough to order it through door dash, that’s closer to $40
So two fast food meals is $15-20?
Okay but that's a far cry from "$65 for one or two fast food meals"
I've had friends homeless recently, Costco was the basis of the best choices of their poverty finance even when living out of a car.
I think it's accessible to even the poorest people who work in the US, but it doesn't mean it's cheap for them or worthwhile without a home/reasonable commute.
Time is a major commodity for people working 2 or more jobs and an hour and back commute to Costco is often not worth it.
> How is this beyond literally anyone in America?
not only is the membership cost up front, but because you're buying in bulk, the cost of the food is also up front; that doesn't work if you're literally living 2-week paycheck to paycheck. Nearly 40% of Americans have less than $500 in savings.
> $65 is the cost of one or two fast food meals ... Am I so out of touch?
yes
When I had less than $50 in savings and lived paycheck to paycheck, I still had a BJs membership. When I was growing up living in a single teacher income home and “K-Mart” was our luxury store, we had a BJs membership. Sales clubs like Costco and BJs are absolutely affordable even to the working poor.
> $65 is the cost of one or two fast food meals.
You mean for a family... I hope?
$65 is just the cost of one or two minutes of fuel for a private jet
You are out of touch
In San Diego, we have a discount store called GTM that buys Costco closeouts and scratch-and-dent items and resells them for less. It has a loyal base of bargain shoppers, and it feels a bit like a treasure hunt.
You can buy normal or even individual quantities, like a single roll of paper towels, with no membership required. I imagine other big cities have similar stores, probably in lower-income areas, that fill a similar role.
In many cases that is the desired effect:
Cashflow constraints are a good predictor for problematic behaviour.
Example: Being poor is not the reason for drug addiction, but drug addiction will make you poor in the long run.
The one good thing about this is: As low liquidity is often used as a classifier to gate access, a single kickstart payment can sometimes do wonders.
A security deposit for a flat and money for a Costco card can change lives.
And thereby it is necessarily impossible for Costco to be available to everyone. The spending dynamic you've described is Costco.
Costo makes almost no money on food sale, and almost all of its profit from the membership fee. It's required for their business model, which is VERY friendly for its employees. This is an example of capitalism done right.
This is such a misconception/oversimplification that drives me nuts and it is so common. It isn’t at all supported by their filings.
In past years their profits match the approximate amount of revenue from their memberships (which, I suspect is the origin of this idea), although recently their profit exceeds their membership revenue by a fair margin (total membership revenue was less than half of operating income for 2025). Membership is not what causes them to be profitable since the “cost” of the membership is operating the rest of the business. You can’t separate retail sales from membership sales since they mutually require each other in the business model. If they got rid of their retail sales (which are, in fact, more profitable than membership sales on their own) then the membership would be worthless. The reverse is not true.
It's true that in recent years profits have exceeded membership revenue, but that still comprises 67% of total profit. It is still a requirement for their business model to operate, unless you're arguing that they would be comfortable with significant losses in the lean years, which I would contest.
Historically speaking is that "enough food to keep someone alive for a year" or "the amount of rice one person eats in a year"?
There's 1655 calories in a pound of uncooked rice, so with 330lbs you are sitting at ~1500 calories a day for a whole year.
You wouldn't starve to death, but you'd absolutely want to supplement (both for more calories and probably for vitamins). But also you'd be eating that rice every single day pretty much, how else are you getting through that much rice?
Wouldn't you also need at least a little protein? and some lipids? For example, there is a lot more in Soylent than just rice flour. Oh, are we talking brown rice or white rice? That seems like it might make a huge difference, not only in nutrition, but also pooping.
For commoners in Feudal Japan, it would’ve been unpolished/brown rice, refining rice was labor intensive/expensive. When accessibility of white rice spread due to automation making it much cheaper, in the 1800s, it caused a huge epidemic of beriberi, which had once been a rich man’s disease, and killed a huge number of people.
There are famous stories of prisoners in Japanese prisons during the World Wars being healthier than their captors because they ate refined, white rice instead of the brown rice for the prisoners.
the biggest problem with white rice is the lack of fiber, the somewhat high glycemic index, and it has the same problem all processed grains have: lacking potassium, iron and magnesium. these days though white rice and other processed grains all come with added b-vitamins (before that started at the turn of the century, there were massive b-vitamin deficiencies popping up everywhere). white rice has less protein than most grains but at 9% of calories, that's still not bad though some variety wouldn't hurt.
don't get me wrong, white rice isn't the worst thing in your diet but i think it's great to diversify with some whole grains and lots of beans (a real superfood), many of which can be had for 2$ to 3$ per 2k calories.
The lameness is that brown rice is more expensive than white rice because it is a healthy choice.
I know, price is what the market will bear blah blah. There is just something that feels fundamentally wrong about a product cheaper to produce being sold at a higher price purely because its the better choice for your health.
Another cute principle in that category is convenience pricing. The 0.5L cola bottle with resealable twist cap is more expensive per liter than the 0.25L cans, purely because the bottle is more convenient to use on the go.
I don’t think it’s because brown rice is the healthier choice. I assume it’s because people buy it less and it spoils way, way faster.
And because people want it more. Economy of scale is off the charts for white vs. brown rice.
Isn't it also because white rice is more shelf stable?
> There is just something that feels fundamentally wrong about a product cheaper to produce being sold at a higher price purely because its the better choice for your health.
You just described almost all food sold in the US. The cheapest stuff is pure garbage. The more you try to escape the preprocessed garbage and get back to the raw, unprocessed, untreated, food, the more you pay. Insane, but true. (And then we wonder why Americans are so unhealthy.)
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/rice-disease-mystery-e...
Lack of thiamine will get you first but you can switch to Brown rice which has both
Err (150kg)(3500kcal/kg) = (5.25E5 kcal/E_koku)/(365 days) = ~1500 kcal/day. So not great working in the field or fighting for the average guy. But I feel like this is one of those things where the average lord didn't count how many fish you caught or what have you. So I bet if you had miso, fish, and like some vegetables from the outside your house, you would probably survive alright.
EDIT: the actual point is that it's probably not literal. Ease of quantifying and transporting dried rice over long distances without refrigeration probably had a lot of how they ended up with a Koku as useful measurement.
That much brown rice will have around 12 grams of fat and 35 grams of protein.
How much protein do you want for "at least a little"?
Supplement with the 50lb bag of beans that sits 20 feet away from the rice at my Costco and you are pretty much there.
rice and beans is a complete protein
weevils
I interpret as the latter:
> As a rule of thumb, one koku was considered a sufficient quantity of rice to feed one person for one year.
I assume "sufficient rice" means it needs to be supplemented, and this is supported by the footnote as well:
> Apparently 1.8 koku (1 koku and 8 to) was actually required for nourishment by a man each year, according to the conventional wisdom documented in a "home code" (kakun [ja]) of a certain merchant family in the Edo period.
That's about $200 a koku at Costco
Sometimes I do that and figure out how much time I work for something. For many, that is only one or two days of work to get a year of minimum calories.
If I decided to go full homestead and grow and process this myself, how long would that take? Way, way, WAY more than 2 days. Scale and specialization has done some amazing things and this is a great example of it.
Too bad in Japan that it's about 30USD for an 11 lb (5kg) of bad of rice. Japanese rice, in Japan, is nearly 5 times more expensive.
(Note that last year, 5kg bags were as much as 8000jpy for standard rice, prices have come down a bit, but not a lot.)
That’s because the rice sold in Japan is generally the highest quality, so it makes sense that it costs more than the rice exported overseas to places like American supermarkets and Costco. The rice you see in US stores is usually a lower grade than what stays in Japan, though not necessarily “low quality.” Japan has historically been pretty selective about what gets exported versus kept for domestic consumption.
There’s also been a rice shortage/crisis in Japan recently, which has pushed prices up even more. See here → https://www.borgenmagazine.com/japans-rice-crisis/ and here → https://old.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/1kthwmr/e/
I would guess that rice is also a lot better quality
Surely also restaurants and larger vendors have ways to buy rice in bulk in Japan - maybe they just don't have the American version for of this for consumers ? Sort of like how in the US people can go to a restaurant supply store (but often dont)
tariffs made Japanese rice farmers lazy.. just drop it and Japan will go back and eat rice
Rice is not created equal. Don't you need brown rice for the nutrients?
https://x.com/patrickheizer/status/2051972462414307659
people like to shit on carbs - but they have done wonders in terms of ensuring food security & population growth.
that same "koku" ensures - you can buy your portion of rice once a year & as long as you keep it dry - you're certainly sure you won't starve.
same applies to boxed pasta boxes, beans etc.
storing meat would surely be more expensive & a much bigger hustle.
> I don't want people to buy things that they don't need
What? This is 100% of 100% of us.
I have a really mixed feeling about Costco. I hate it, I going there, I hate the crowds, the parking, the people, being hawked a credit card, a cell phone, whatever the vendors are selling. It makes me feel like a pig in a slaughterhouse waiting to get out of the store, I feel like it's the platonic form of consumption. We all go to the nice little consumption center like good piggies to get our sustenance and to get milked further (maybe I should buy some electronics!)
Yet, I keep going. I like the cranberry bread, the cheap chicken, the granola, I like not thinking about what to buy so much. I like that it's of an acceptable quality at an acceptable price. I like that I can return stuff easily without getting shit for it. I like "scoring" deals on stuff that seems like a good value.
> Yet, I keep going.
Then I think Costco has done its perfect job and exactly the goal the founder set out to create: Quality goods at affordable prices.
They optimize for those 2 things first. Consequently, everything else becomes a management of chaos (the part that stresses you out and thusly hate).
If they did try to make the experience better, it would cost them someplace. And honestly, you're just at whole foods at that point.
The Costco episode on the Acquired podcast was really good, imo. It covered the trajectory from genesis till today. Highly recommended: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/costco
This is a great perspective! Somehow it makes it feel better to think of it that way, that basically this is likely as good as it can get on those two very important metrics, and that improving other things would probably cause those to decrease.
Better than optimizing for short-term shareholder value like most other firms...
This is relatable. I'm constantly baffled by the selection - half the items you find will be there in a month, the other half you will never see again, or maybe see seasonally. And then at random, they move things. Like halfway across the store.
I remember loving a Costco trip with friends at age 18, because we'd walk every aisle, and there were always so many cool things and at prices we could afford. But now as an adult with a stressful and rushed lifestyle due to children, it kills me that it's so difficult to find the 10 things I need quickly and get out, without walking every aisle. They clearly really want you to walk every aisle!
Perhaps worth noting that this Costco experience is localized. I've experienced it myself in Los Angeles when visiting, and when I lived in the Bay Area. No carts. Takes 10 minutes to get a parking spot, etc. But here in Montana Costco is very chill. The same people have worked there for 25 years and will ask you how your kids are doing. Plenty carts. Plenty parking. There is still the cell phone guy but even he can be defeated with a cheery "my company pays for my service".
Your observation makes sense given the population density and sheer number of people that the Bay Area has relative to Montana. If the Costco in where-you-are Montana weren’t chill, there would be similarities between that area and the Bay Area / LA.
The experience definitely differs. I’ve never even noticed a cell phone person in Canadian Costcos. There’s a booth off in the electronics section but no one bothers you. If you can get there on a Monday, the place seems fairly empty.
The one thing that brings me back there is their croissants. There are none other like it, and their product is a 12ct pack for a very reasonable price.
> There are none other like it
Heh, I guess you mean apart form true French ones. You won't find them anywhere else in the world, there is always something off in dough or overall process so result is different and worse.
But its true that ignorance is quite often a bliss.
You can buy them frozen, directly from the baking counter, in 144 count boxes... Just saying...
And the salmon
These days I just go to Sam's Club.
Hear me out.
It's right next to Costco, literally in the same mall.
Products are kind of shittier but they're good enough. But good enough is better for me because the rest of the experience is just better.
Walking through Sam's Club is often a breeze whereas through Costco I waddle like a penguin sandwiched between a waddle of penguins, each competing for enough space and quiet and mental clarity to score a good purchase.
It can be panic inducing.
At Sam's Club I don't even walk to a cash register. I pay with my phone and I'm out.
They don't even ask me to show my ID at the door.
Do they even have Sam's Club in the PNW? I've never seen one.
But even if they did, no way am I shopping at Sam's Club for the same reason that I'm never shopping at its parent company, Walmart. Walmart arguably did more to destroy small town America than any other company, and it also treats retail employees like shit. On the other hand, Costco is one of the best places to work as a retail employee (which is why they have so little turnover).
Not shopping at Sam's Club because its parent company destroys small town America is a perfectly reasonable sociopolitical stance so I respect it. Bravo.
But if you're still shopping at Costco then you don't really care about the effects that these big box stores have on small town economies.
You're just into performative activism.
But Costco does have better working conditions so I'll give you that.
>Not shopping at Sam's Club because its parent company destroys small town America is a perfectly reasonable sociopolitical stance so I respect it. Bravo.
Not saying you specifically, but it drives me up the wall that the same people who complain big business bad have so much overlap with the people who champion government policy that makes it so only the big businesses that can amortize the fixed costs of doing business over absurd quantities can exist competitively.
Which gov policy is that?
> But if you're still shopping at Costco then you don't really care about the effects that these big box stores have on small town economies.
Costco operates quite differently from Walmart and therefore does not have the same effect as Walmart.
Walmart carries a much much larger selection (~150K SKUs at a SuperCenter vs ~4K SKUs at a Costco) and therefore competes with local grocery stores and pretty much any local store that carry just about everything needed for day-to-day living.
Costco aims at a much narrower demographic, and is designed for bulk buying, which most people don't do, or might only do for a few items. That's why, though its prices might be lower than a local grocery, it doesn't necessarily put the grocery store out of business.
It did not, and does not, target small towns the way Walmart did (doesn't do it anymore much because all the small businesses are gone now).
Also, Costco has a much smaller footprint across in the US -- about 600 stores vs ~4600 Walmart.
> You're just into performative activism.
No. While I'd like to do my shopping at small local stores out of principle, and I do where I have a choice, most don't exist anymore, and I can't resurrect them. Even the small "local" grocery that I do shop at, it turns out (I found out quite by accident on Wikipedia) is now owned by some larger company. That means instead of the "best" options, I have to choose the "least worst" options.
Costco doesn't have any stores near small town economies...
Walmart does, and it achieved its dominance by deliberately targeting and destroying small town America economies.
Costco buisness centers are usually a lot quieter, and don't have the free sample venders clogging up the aisle. Memberships work for both.
Costco business centers for 50lb bag of bread flour.
Regular Costco for rotisserie chicken.
In life you can't have everything.
I've noticed that my local Costco business centers actually tend to have a larger selection of things like soft drinks and single-serving packaged snacks, and not in obscenely large quantities (any more than normal Costcos).
I mean, I just go first thing Sat/Sun morning.
Parking is easy, the store is quiet, there are no vendors set up yet.
I have my list of things I need, I get it, get out, easy.
Idk, I’ve never felt the pull of ‘I MUST buy some new electronics’ when I walk by the tvs.
I don’t really understand the hate against ’consumption’ either. I’ve gotta eat and I’ve gotta shit, so I might as well go and by the cheap toilet paper and food. I don’t pay attention to all the other stuff.
Watch the Costco clip from Idiocracy, matches your description to the letter.
Is the super-consumption aspect of it really so different than any other big box store?
The consumption aspect is perhaps similar, but the crowds at Costco are much, much worse (in quantity mainly) than any other grocery or big-box store I've ever been to.
I also refuse to go to Costco these days. Every once in a while my memory fades and I agree to accompany a family member or friend, and am quickly reminded why I should stick to Aldi.
I hate going there and mostly use Instacart to avoid having to, but even with a Instacart mark-up and tip it's cheaper and higher quality than most other options, happy to pay someone else to do my shopping.
Is it really higher quality? I had a membership for a year and didn't find much I was interested in purchasing food wise, at least.
> Is it really higher quality?
Yes, genuinely. At most stores, "store brand" equates to "cheap, lower quality". Kirkland Signature is sometimes higher quality than other brands, and there are items for which they're my preferred brand.
I’ve learned from FarmTok that Costco is a big reason farms maintain proper standards even going beyond what’s required from them to keep Costco’s business.
Products get made to the standards of the pickiest customer. The condiments and sauce industry has the (((same situation)))[1] going on. If Costco went poof tomorrow the change would only be a marginal one down to the standards of the next pickiest customer worth optimizing for which is probably only a hair's breadth away. If Costco was trying to drag the standards way up then farms would raise separate stuff for them.
[1] Many condiments are Kosher not because the recipe inherently is, but because it's easy to do without much downside so doing so pencils out handily. I couldn't resist the parenthesis joke.
If you use sameday.Costco.com I’ve heard it’s cheaper than actual instacart even though it is instacart, less some fees etc.
I’m in the same boat. The quality to terrible. No I don’t want a bunch of pumpkin seeds that you’re using as filler for products. The produce isn’t great either. A huge portion of the food is either premade factory food that’s chilled or frozen.
I don’t want a bunch of cellulose in my cheese either.
I seriously question if you’ve ever actually been to Costco. The produce is generally fine but everything else is good to great quality. I always load up with a huge wedge of parmigiano reggiano, Spanish olive oil, Barolo wine (all Kirkland branded and DOP labeled) for literally half the price of anywhere else. Everything else is generally solid too. Just looking around at the other Kirkland food I’ve got right now, their tofu, sparkling water, eggs, salted butter, huge loaf of sourdough that I freeze, are all solid. I’m struggling to think of a Kirkland signature food product I’ve been dissatisfied with.
Your local grocery store must be terrible if you think Costco has good food and produce. No, I’m not talking about wine, oil, or water. I buy those 3 things plus paper towels and toilet paper (not Kirkland toilet paper post Covid).
Everything you mentioned is a prepackaged, premade item. It’s not fresh. The Kirkland Parmesan is cut and sealed in a factory. Not cut by my local grocery or Whole Foods from a giant wheel that has the Italian markings.
The last bag of chicken breasts I got were almost the size of turkey breast and it was woody and stringy. Google if you don’t believe me.
> a giant wheel that has the Italian markings
Ah, therein lies the difference. You don't make any mention of taste or texture, just the marketing.
I think so.
Stuff like USDA Prime meats are substantially cheaper and same quality as anywhere else. I smoke a lot of meats though.
Organic produce is super cheap. Especially stuff like pre-cut broccoli, lettuce mixes, etc.
Protein powders, crackers, chips, organic yogurt, organic milk, organic eggs, cheese, prosciutto, etc.
Also liquor including decent beer and wine selection.
I get all this stuff, mid to high quality compared to Whole Foods or whatever grocery store. Sure, I could buy higher quality organic meats directly from the farmer over USDA Prime at Costco or more sustainable seafood and what not, but it would easily cost 3-5x.
I don't buy it alot, but people love the bakery - croissants, pies, cakes, etc. and they're high quality, comparable to most local bakeries.
I won't set foot in that place unless: (a) it's 30 minutes before closing, at which point the crowd has died down, or (b) I've toked up.
The one near my office is like Mad Max Fury Road if you try to go at lunch time. Good luck getting gas much less checking out with 200+ people all trying to get back to the office.
Costco's gimmick is relieving you of choice and price shopping. They find the best stuff and don't mark it up. If Consumer is your identity yet you fear executing its labors, let Costco step in and become your denomination of consumerism, complete with tithe, proscribed usury, and communion hot dog.
I wouldn't call it a gimmick when the business has been so successful for so many years. They target educated shoppers who want to buy quality at minimum markup and not think too hard about it. If I want a TV, I know Costco will have good ones at a good price. If I need socks, same. Their food is cheaper and better than Kroger. It's just a win-win for shoppers and Costco. The only tradeoff is selection and dealing with the crowds.
What you wrote sounds intelligent but belies an ignorance of the business model.
Parallel to that, I have to imagine Costco makes a lot of money off of impulse purchases, which are induced by uncertainty in the specific items they will have available, plus mutable store layouts.
Long ago in undergrad I took a retail marketing class and we did a field trip to Costco; the GM told us it was part of their policy to rearrange parts of the store occasionally so that you had to browse the entire place to check off your shopping list. This increases the likelihood that you stumble across new products. So it’s this combination of “best price/quality without decision fatigue” plus some impulse buying that works for them. The fact that they are figuring out the price/quality trade off for you up front probably also makes it easier to impulse buy with fewer regrets.
Yea so true. Unlike many with families here, I (a single 26M) recently got a costco membership for the gas savings, whenever i stop by costco in the middle of the month, i'm looking for one or two things. This time it happened to be peanut butter, it's insane the amount of times I had to tell myself, no you dont need this, get peanut butter and leave.
Ofcourse it's very convenient that their app doesnt show what aisle things belong to so that was a fun realization.
I have seen things move for no reason, but I have seen things remain where they are for a decade. I am in south bay and go to Sunnyvale Costco. They move their bread, the oil and bunch of stuff many times, but the wine (which I do not partake) has not moved, the batteries are exactly in the same spot for decade(s), I find my dishwasher liquid exactly in the same spot, and although I do not consume it any more, but I am 100% certain the eggo waffles have not moved an inch in 2 decades. Yes toilet paper has moved but it is right adjacent and is explained by making it easier than harder to find things.
Maybe it depends on the GM.
Hope I do not jinx it :)
The word is treasure hunt. Stores like Costco or TJ Maxx (there are others) use what they call the treasure hunt. They design the whole experience around you walking around hunting for that new piece of treasure that you have to buy.
Stuff that's not going to be restocked has asterisks on the shelf placard... or so I've been told and it seems to match my experience.
Yeah, this right here. I don't want to sift through thousands of options. Sometimes I just want a widget that is good quality and I don't want to get ripped off.
Exactly. Competition and choice is good for the market, but the ideal shopping experience is where there is exactly one option and it satisfies your needs.
Identifying as a rabid consumer is not a requirement of appreciating Costco. The end result of that gimmick is that it feels like they're looking out for their customers and offering them a valuable service as opposed to trying to suck them dry. Buy this blender; don't buy this blender; they don't care, just know that this is probably the one that will best meet your needs, it's the best deal you're going to find on it anywhere, and if you're unhappy with it for any reason they'll take it back.
It's a gimmick only for those who get sucked into buying things that they don't need. I've been a Costco shopper for decades, and sure have succumbed to some useless stuff, but my Costco list is 90% the same month to month. I get appalled when I see the same items on my list, that are smaller and in a pack of 1 instead of 2-4, for more money at other stores. If electronics were just like food, it would be like seeing a Macbook Pro for $2000 everywhere but it was $799 at Costco.
actually a 2pk for $2200 :P
Some companies serve the people and some companies want people to serve them.
The sabbath was always meant for man and that makes a lot of people very angry because whatever ideological or religious lip service someone gives their behavior demonstrate they hate man, or more subtly, love mankind like dollars in their pocket, stripping humans of their humanity.
This mendacious attitude is also a major driver of enshitification.
The internet and executive social distancing has made a huge swath of people lose touch with how unique individuals are, so they treat humanity with the bigotry and coldness that the law of large numbers has lead them to, which is ultimately very mean.
a bit out of left field. tell us how you really feel... about something that's definitely not this topic because this is nonsense
> If Consumer is your identity yet you fear executing its labors
This is an interesting take. Spending hours min-maxxing the "best" combination of product/price in every given category has always been peak consumerism as an identity to me. Subreddits filled with tens of thousands of posts and strongly held groupthink opinions about why knife brand x is the best option for you to open your amazon packages, or how much you need to try the new mechanical keyboard switch collaboration, deep dives on wirecutter, waiting for the right sale, etc.
I go to costco because I don't want to do any of that for my groceries and basic home needs. I need oil for my car this weekend, and beer and burgers to hang out after I'm done with it. I don't want to spend 10 hours reading about the best 5w30 oil (or should I get 0w20?), I want a high-quality option at a fair price.
The entire activity of going to buy a few things for around the house during the weekend is something that is performed by a consumer. This guy is exactly talking about you, but you aren't seeing it because your own internal identity isn't Consumer it's something like "guy who wants a chill weekend." However in the marketplace your identity is consumer.
I think we're just arguing semantics at this point. From an economic definition you, me, and everyone else who has to exchange money for goods and services is a consumer. I'm referring to consumer culture/consumerism, which wikipedia defines in a cleaner way than I can. Buying groceries period makes you a consumer, having a weird sense of superiority because you go to a specific grocery store is consumerism.
> In contemporary consumer society, the purchase and the consumption of products have evolved beyond the mere satisfaction of basic human needs,[1] transforming into an activity that is not only economic but also cultural, social, and even identity-forming.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism
What point are you even making?
We all have to eat, we all have to wipe our asses, we (mostly) all need to change the oil in our cars.
I don’t really see the purpose in describing the purchase of necessities as an identity.
I'm specifically trying to make the point that identity is not just a personal experience -- the experience of how you see yourself. Identity is also a label that can be placed upon you.
Parent Comment was trying to reject the personal identity of consumer while their words actively affirming their identity as a consumer in the marketplace. You can reject the personal identity of a consumer all you want, but businesses will still judge you by your actions (how much you spend).
Parent Comment was responding to a person talking about self-identity and not the mere fact that everyone buys things. "This guy is exactly talking about you" is completely wrong, OP was not talking about every person ever.
Open your car’s manual, or pop your hood and it’s likely written on the oil filler cap.
But you can spend endless time reading forum debates about whether the OEM specification is the optimal one for any given car, complete with lab test results, which was the point I was making.
I often times walk through a local store chain and see 30 types of mustard on the shelves and I think to myself: “Who needs so much choice?”
Another thing on the top of my mind is oatmeal - I’m not a oatmeal connoisseur but I can’t taste the difference between the 5-10 types of oatmeal in the store, not that I’ve an active choice to try them. Do we need that much diversity in oatmeal choices?
And so on and so on.
unfortunately when there are so many choices the usual reason is because they are all bad...
If there is wine on the dog, i I'm 100% in.
One area where I'd say Costco -is- a let down is electronics. Yes, you don't always need the latest and greatest, but in my area Costco was selling 2 and 3 year old model TVs that have been superseded by the manufacturer at their (low but still retail) same prices.
It feels like you really wanted to shoehorn the communion hot dog line in there.
Also the reason that small specialty shops, and mom-and-pop grocery, fruit, dairy, bakeries and butcher shops are largely gone. They just cannot compete with Costco and Sam's Club/Walmart's buying power.
A specialty shop can probably survive Costco much more easily than they can survive Walmart or any other conventional (American) grocery store. The grocery store carries 20 or 30 different olive oils, to select one example. Odds are all the snobbiest will find something they like... odds are even decent that in a blind taste test even the snobbiest would find something that they would be horrified to discover came from a normal grocery store.
Costco carries one or two options for a given thing, and are outright missing many things you might want. As nice as Costco is for buying things on a budget when you're going to use them up fully, I think it would be a bit of a challenge to make them your only grocery source. Doable as a sort of self-imposed challenge, no problem, there's certainly enough for that, but you'd be missing a lot of things, and/or wasting money on huge quantities of things you won't use. The quality is generally pretty decent (I may have more brand loyalty for "Kirkland" than almost any other brand) but not necessarily the most premium options. If you are the type to even consider the specialty shop in the first place you're more likely to be unsatisfied by Costco than a grocery store.
Costco is for bulk staples and commodities for me. Products that I really don't need the best of the best for, good enough is good enough and as long as I can use it all before it goes bad, I'd rather not waste more thought than needed for it. Milk, eggs, flour, flowers, microfiber towels, batteries, salt and pepper.
Then for all the niche stuff that I do truly care about, there's the specialty stores or really the farmer's market. That's where I'll indulge for the first press seasonal olive oils, all sorts of pluot/apriplums/plumpicots combinations, short shelf life wild berries, blueberry/orange/mint blossum honey and whatnot.
> Costco is for bulk staples and commodities for me
> Milk, eggs, flour, flowers, microfiber towels, batteries, salt and pepper
If you can walk out of Costco month after month with just those essentials, and never pick up any of the nice-looking and reasonably-priced goodies there, I think it's safe to say that you have the level of discipline required to be financially successful and not have to care about whether you're getting the best price per unit of whatever it is you're buying. :-)
Actual specialty shops survive just fine. There's plenty of value in real expertise. Run-of-the-mill stores selling the same commodity at a higher price are simply inefficient.
The idealized small mom-and-pop shops were largely put out of business by WWII and rationing more than anything. Supermarkets and department stores have more or less been the norm in the US since long before Wal-Mart began spreading across the country.
There are still plenty of produce stands, bakeries, and butcher shops in the country. Most of what was driven out of business were small bodega-style corner stores.
I would argue that corner stores were also driven out of business by suburbanization. If no one is within walking distance to a corner store, then it's not going to survive. Fewer people are going to drive to a corner store that costs more and stocks less than a supermarket.
They mostly exist now in a different form as gas station markets, or in dense urban areas like NYC, or some central business districts.
I will not buy coffee at Costco. I've had Costco coffee beans and it's terrible. I only buy premium beans at specialty shops and always will. The masses can drink their subpar coffee from Costco if they wish.
I remember reading costco has leverage on their supplier-producers, enough that they than enforce better standards above regulation (i.e. meats/produce), which is something mom-pop can't do.
99% of the reason for the mom-and-pop groceries dying out is that "our" Federal Gov't decided that it would stop bothering to enforce the law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson%E2%80%93Patman_Act
And note how the modern Democratic Party - the originators of that law back in 1936 - utterly failed to give a crap about the issue.
Robinson-Patman is a bad law. Even if it were a good law, it would be effectively impossible to enforce equitably and not capriciously, which is probably why it hasn’t been.
The government telling competitive buyers and sellers which kinds of price negotiation are legal and which are not is terrible economics because it attenuates price signals.
Pre-1980's, it seems to have been enforced well enough to keep a whole lot of mom-and-pop grocery stores in business.
I'm thinking the faded-out enforcement was due to a certain 1980's President, and his administration's "Greed is God" ethos. A lot of protections for the little guy got dumped on his watch.
You don’t have to guess. Wikipedia’s cite for the claim of decline says:
Enforcement of the RPA is overseen by the Federal Trade Commission, but cases have declined since the 1980s due to the complexity of the law and the requirement to prove intended damages. Juries in recent cases claiming RPA violations have not found the defendants guilty.
> note how the modern Democratic Party... utterly failed to give a crap about the issue
From the article on the Act -
"Enforcement of the RPA has declined since the 1980s. In 2022, FTC commissioner Alvaro Bedoya endorsed a revival of enforcing the RPA in order to curb price discrimination. In April 2024, sixteen members of Congress wrote to the FTC urging for a revival of the enforcement of the Act. In December 2024, the FTC sued liquor distributor Southern Glazer's under the Act, asserting that they charged small stores more than they charged large chains. On January 17, 2025, the closing days of the Biden Administration, the FTC filed a lawsuit against PepsiCo. In May 2025, The FTC voted to dismiss the PepsiCo suit but the suit against Southern Glazer's is proceeding."
It's a low bar but the Democratic party has given more of a crap about it than anyone else.
I get the allure, but it's not for me and my partner.
We live in a small apartment. We drive a small car. The pantry has a good amount of dry bulk & canned food, but we largely shop one week at a time.
Sure, we could "lock in" on two or three foods, buy weeks worth of them at a time, and save some money. But like most people we like a bit of verity. It's just not possible to buy such massive quantities of things with nowhere to store them.
What I want is an anti-costco. More like a bodega. Still curated, maybe a larger mark-up, but smaller quantities of everything. Half loaves of bread, small bags of frozen veg, enough sugar or flour to bake just a couple batches.
Trader Joe's is probably closest to what you want. It targets single shoppers with small quantities and low prices, and it rotates products frequently to keep things interesting.
Anecdotally I feel like a lot of TJ's shoppers shift into Costco shoppers as they age up.
The nice thing about Trader Joe's is that you can be in and out in 5-10 minutes if you're just buying weekly food items. The store is modestly sized and the checkout lines are short. I'm in there about once a week.
I go to Costco once every three months or so and buy paper towels, detergent, and other consumables that have long shelf lives. I don't feel drawn to it; it's just the warehouse for boring items to buy in bulk. Their hot dog is OK. But a lifestyle? No.
at what volume is the membership worth it?
4 shops/year I wouldn't have thought would justify the cost
We only shop regularly at three stores: Costco (every 2 weeks), TJs (random stuff that we don't need as much of or that is cheaper/better at TJs, like organic peanut butter, or sometimes their cheeses and marinated meats, oh, and the kids love TJ takis, also wine), and our local grocer (makes fresh bread daily, and we get meat, milk and eggs there because they source locally).
I'm reminded of a comedian's bit I heard recently (he does a lot of "crowd work")
> So, what do you guys want to do? Feel like pooling all the cash we have and going to Trader Joe's to buy an apple?
(TBH, I think he said "whole foods" there, but the sentiment is the same.)
Maybe it varies by location, but in my experience, Whole Foods is significantly more expensive than Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's is pretty affordable. It may not be Walmart cheap, but it's no worse than Target.
My wife and I shop at both Costco and TJs. They are our favorite stores...
We're a bit odd though. Highly budget conscious, 4 kidsto feed (including 2 teenagers), and European tastes in food.
I don't think this is abnormal. I think every family in my (middle class+) neighborhood does both Costco and Trader Joes. We don't have a convenient Whole Foods though.
Or vice versa as kids move out and you don't need all that food. We will shop at Costco monthly but TJ is way more common.
The basic membership is $65. If all you do is get a year's worth of detergent, toilet paper, and cleaning supplies chances are that will already pay for the membership. They also have grocery items that are kinda wholesale but not really. Pantry stuff like a bag of nuts that you can go through on your own in under a week that is marked down significantly from the grocery store. Oh also olive oil is another big one for me.
The issue for many apartment-dwellers is storage. You can't store a year's worth of detergent, toilet paper, and cleaning supplies in an apartment.
Costco really incentivizes shopping in bulk, from the huge value-pack sized portions to the focus on frozen & dry goods to the super-sized carts to the anxiety-inducing shopping experience. My wife and I shoot to go no more than once a quarter, just because it's a hassle.
We found our habits (and need for Costco) changed dramatically once we moved into a home and could now put in a chest freezer and pile toilet paper rolls in a corner.
Yes I'm cognizant of that. Not everything I get there is a large item. The dishwasher detergent for example goes under the sink. Bulk is basically a two pack. Coffee also just throw it in the pantry. Ditto for other drinks and food items. And electronics. I've gotten a MacBook air from Costco only for the extended warranty they offer. Another perk is free installs which I guess doesn't apply for apartment folks but I will say I got a dishwasher from them and the install being included was on it's own worth the price.
I actually only got Costco originally when I lived in Hawaii and it's kinda a requirement there but kept it cause it's actually really nice.
Is it a requirement in Hawaii because of the generally high prices of everything there?
It's just nice to have cause of the gas price discount and the fact that a lot of the product in US big box stores is sold at relatively sane prices with shipping and handling taken care of.
We live in a smaller place and my wife and I just piggyback off friends and end up going roughly once a quarter as well. We do have enough space for a year's worth of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, etc but even then it's often not worth the hassle of driving (we live in an urban enough area that we don't drive often), parking, fighting through lines, etc just to get stuff once a quarter.
>The basic membership is $65. If all you do is get a year's worth of detergent, toilet paper, and cleaning supplies chances are that will already pay for the membership.
Maybe savings are that large if you're comparing against regular prices at retailers, but if you wait for sales, they're as cheap, if not cheaper than Costco.
Depending on how close/far your Costco is, it could be worth it for fuel savings alone. They're generally $0.15-$0.30 / gallon cheaper than nearby gas stations. I've seen it as much as $0.60 / gallon cheaper on occasion. On top of that, their gas is Top Tier.
you could get the annual supply, then cancel your membership and get the membership refund. then repeat next year. Its within their rules.
Seems like quite a pain in the ass to save the equivalent of $7/month. If you value your time at all it's barely worth it.
The simpler variant of this is to obtain a gift certificate. They are required to let you spend it it, so you can get into the store that way. Bring cash, though -- they don't love that people do this, so they don't always take credit cards on these transactions.
If you ever visit Japan, you can buy a Costco membership there for $35 and use it in the US.
I heard you can also get someone with a membership to buy you a gift card, and use the reloadable gift card for continued access. (Or buy one for yourself and then cancel your membership.)
If you do most of your grocery shopping there like me, you can get the executive membership which gives you 2% cash back on everything at the end of the year which for me makes the membership completely free. Pay with the Costco credit card and you get an additional 2%.
to me this erodes trust in the Costco brand, they should've put these back in the prices, as this suggests everyone else are paying extra 4%
I’d rather just pay a bit more at Target and not even have to go inside, they bring your order out to your car for free.
For the kinds of people who post on HN, the real savings of a Costco membership is that they regularly have high-end electronics, appliances, and home furnishings at $50-100 or more off retail elsewhere. Get a robot vacuum or a couch or a VR headset for $100 off and your membership's already paid for itself that year. For several years, if you need to replace a refrigerator or washing machine.
> Get a robot vacuum or a couch or a VR headset for $100 off and your membership's already paid for itself that year
I think one danger with Costco is that it encourages overconsumption. It may feel like you're saving money - but you'd save even more just not buying a robot vaccum or VR headset.
If you do the research and decide you would benefit from a robot vacuum, compare different models to decide on the best fit for your needs, and then check prices at different stores and find that it's cheapest at Costco - then yeah I'd say you're saving money. But I'd venture to guess that most robot vacuums are just bought on impulse during Black Friday sales (for example) - which I don't think counts as saving money even if you get a big discount from the MSRP.
To be fair, this isn't a problem unique to Costco. I'm guilty of buying a lot of junk on Amazon.
> If you do the research and decide you would benefit from a robot vacuum, compare different models to decide on the best fit for your needs, and then check prices at different stores and find that it's cheapest at Costco - then yeah I'd say you're saving money.
That sounds like you might well be spending more time than the money you're saving.
Paired with a costco credit card it usually pays for itself.
There was a point where two friends and I each lived alone in an apartment, and I was the only one who had a (2-door) car. We still occasionally did Costco runs.
We'd go in and walk the store - the whole store - aisle by aisle.
If I saw something like a 2-pound bag of tortellini, but thought two pounds was too big a quantity for me, I'd ask, "does anybody want to split two pounds or tortellini?" One might say yes, so we'd throw the tortellini in the shopping cart.
At the end, one person (the membership holder) would pay, and we'd divvy up the result of our haul into reusable containers, in the parking lot. One of us would then take point on itemizing the receipt, and we'd pay back the person with the membership.
In hindsight, I think we did this more to socialize than to save money, but we definitely did save money. Even as a single apartment-dweller, I bought my fair share of 24-packs of yogurt and 5-pound bags of frozen vegetables.
Growing up as a kid, we lived in the sticks and the small local grocery store had a limited produce section. My mom joined a little co-op where each person would put in the same amount of cash, but one person would make a trip to the downtown farmer's market. The purchase was split evenly between each member. Each trip a different person made the trip so the variety changed not only by what was available but by the person making the trip's preferences.
This was my introduction to collective buying and at the same time the fact there's a bigger world out there than where one lives.
This is what I did with 3 roommates in college. We saved a ton of money that way.
After college, I only had one roommate and Costco didn't work as well. The quantities for certain things are just a bit much. Buying 36 eggs for 4 adults made sense. Buying 36 eggs for 2 adults... not so much. I ended up going to Costco for toilet paper and gas, and that's it.
To this day, I'm still the "spouse" on one of those college roommates' costco memberships, LOL.
Eggs last a long time in the fridge! I could definitely go through 36 eggs myself over the course of 3 weeks. :)
Actual conversation with a roommate from that time:
"Who's been eating all the eggs?"
"I'm not sure, how many eggs do you eat?"
"Not many, like 3 eggs in the morning."
"(Name), that's 21 eggs per week"
"... oh, yeah."
This friend was known as the mongoose for the rest of college.
Some stuff like milk is a nonstarter. But most everything else I will go to costco for even living in a small apartment. Big costco thing of olive oil is far cheaper than olive oil anywhere else and not too hard to store. pack of trash bags again easy to store cheaper than anywhere else. likewise for dish soap, just as wide as a standard bottle but square and far cheaper. A lot of stuff with longer shelf lifes that I eat anyway in maybe 1.5-2x the volume as sold in a regular grocery stores and works out to be cheaper still somehow than that smaller volume unit at the regular grocery store. Cereal. Oats. I will even get my creatine there. My rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide. My generic allergy medicine and psuedoephedrine (which is a RACKET at CVS by the way). There's been times I've had some baking in front of me and 24 rack of eggs made sense. I also get their golf balls and golf gloves. Cheap zinc sunscreen.
> What I want is an anti-costco. More like a bodega. Still curated, maybe a larger mark-up, but smaller quantities of everything. Half loaves of bread, small bags of frozen veg, enough sugar or flour to bake just a couple batches.
This is becoming even harder to achieve nowadays, there is all this variety in size of products and more and more over the years(at least in the midwest) it seems that grocery stores want to take the small product and apply minimums to deals.
there will be an 8oz offering and a 14 oz offering, the 8 oz will be on sale but only if you buy at least 2 or 3, its incredibly frustrating.
It has incidentally made my junk food habits better though, If i see 2 for 5$ for a package of cookies with no minimum purchase, I'll likely grab a box. As soon as they apply that minimum, i am gonna be thinking "do i really wanna eat all those cookies?" instead i end up with 0.
> the 8 oz will be on sale but only if you buy at least 2 or 3, its incredibly frustrating.
Have you tested this by buying just one, and checking the price on the receipt?
I ask because someone once told me this was illegal in the US; that a shop was allowed to display the sale price only for a larger quantity, but they had to honor the same price per unit if you only bought one. (I think we were discussing produce at the time, in case that matters.) I've long wondered if that was true or just an urban legend.
My grocery store does both. If the label says "Sale: 2/$5, Was: $3.99" and I buy one, I get charged $2.50. If the label says "2/$5, Single item: $3" and I buy one, I get charged $3.
Most likely that pricing rule was/is at a more local level. The national level in the US doesn't have anything like that, but there are some states or cities or counties that can and do.
iirc yes it did not apply on purchase as well, on the label it is always also explicit about cost if not bought in those quantities(2 for 5 in any quantity is still sometimes the actual offering). I am assuming my memory is correct because its baked into my shopping experience to ensure i am reading the label correctly now.
Meijer is slowly becoming a bad offender of these types of things, Jewel has been horrifying for years, to the point where i avoid their store entirely. The final straw was this limit applied to gallons of milk.
At my Winn Dixie and Publix (FL), tags often say "must by in quantities of 2." for products on sale.
The computers are not dumb. If you do not purchase the correct number of items, the discount is not applied. Also, if you do not have a member/loyalty account, you do not get those discounts. They now have a new level that requires you to have their app for "digital" coupons that are on top of the loyalty prices. There are many times where I don't input my number in until the very end, and then see it calculate all of the deductions. Sometimes it's not much, but I've seen it drop $30 from the "member" price discounts.
> The computers are not dumb.
Nobody has suggested that they malfunction.
I thought this was obvious, but to spell it out: I was suggesting that they might not necessarily be programmed to apply a different price depending on quantity. An item might have a flat price of $1 each, but labeled on the shelf/bin as "special: five for $5" to encourage larger purchases.
I have personally encountered this. Meanwhile, I do not recall an example of buying a quantity smaller than suggested and being charged a higher price per item. Hence my question about labeling and law.
> Also, if you do not have a member/loyalty account, you do not get those discounts.
I'm not talking about membership discounts.
> An item might have a flat price of $1 each, but labeled on the shelf/bin as "special: five for $5" to encourage larger purchases.
That's not a special, that's just math. I've only ever seen that kind of nonsense from Amazon. I've seen Buy 3 for $5, while the individual is $1.99. If you buy one you pay $1.99, if you buy two you pay $3.98, but if you buy three, you end up paying $5. The receipt will show 3 @ $1.99 with a discount under the item bringing the total to $5. My store routinely has various meat offerings of Buy 1, get 2 free. If you ring up one, it shows the price. If you ring up 3, it shows all three items, but discount the cheapest two prices so you only pay for the single highest priced item.
Major chains are not going to be futzing around with gotcha tags. They know they'll be called out for it. It would be the bodega style places that I'd be suspect of that kind of shenanigans.
> I'm not talking about membership discounts.
Why not? It clearly shows two different prices. If you are not using a discount/loyalty card, you pay the full price. A lot of times I've seen when you use a line with a human checker they'll have a card on stand by (probably their own) to get the points while giving the buyer the lower prices.
> That's not a special,
It is a special when the usual price is $2 each.
> Why not?
Because I'm not interested.
Counterpoint: Publix will absolutely show a special price of "2 for X" and will charge you X/2 if you only buy one. I did it just this morning.
> I ask because someone once told me this was illegal in the US; that a shop was allowed to display the sale price only for a larger quantity, but they had to honor the same price per unit if you only bought one.
No, WTF? That's not a thing, why would you even credit such obvious nonsense?
The thing is you can save a ton of money on a few non-food items to make it worth it. Just over-the-counter medicines save me a huge chunk of the membership fee. Then there are just random household goods: paper products, trash bags, dishwasher detergent, etc.
Their pharmacy is A+.
I get my dogs seizure meds there and they're about $10 a month but at a regular pharmacy they'd be $300+.
You can use the pharmacy without a membership.
Renting a car once a year through Costco Travel is worth the membership fee.
I've been seeing more and more of these "weird" membership perks. I had not seen the car rental until now. I've seen the vacations and other home repair/upgrade things. I'm in a perpetual disagreement with Enterprise that makes them not allow me to rent a car from them or their sub-brands (which is most of them now it seems). I might check into Costco's offerings for this summer. Thanks for the reminder.
It's great for canned goods and anything bulk for cooking, see: salmon.
We've been buying their "fresh" salmon (not freeze-packed) for years, until parasites started crawling out of one fillet. Statistically nothing, but the wife will never buy it again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Glasses is another place where the savings are astounding
I've been doing most of my grocery shopping at Costco for more than 20 years and I still don't understand this claim. I'm only shopping for my wife and I. I have a normal sized house, normal sized pantry, normal sized car. I just don't buy things in bulk that I can't use before they spoil and I freeze all meats. Most things at Costco are barely larger than standard size. You can buy a single gallon of milk, a single quart of creamer, 18 eggs, etc. It's never once been a problem. I fill in smaller things from Aldi (like if I need a bottle of mustard). I have plenty of variety - I'm buying raw ingredients and can make a wide variety of things from them.
Shopping like you're talking about (small quantities of everything) will easily double your grocery spending, and I don't know why you would do it unless there's something about the experience you really like. If that's what you want, the chain that comes to mind is Fresh Market if you're in the eastern US, or just a local market.
Yeah bodegas and specialty grocery stores are for this and tend to be frequent in dense or HCOL areas in the US. We shop at one (also because we're food snobs and cook a lot, so we strongly prefer not getting the "Costco basics" version of our staples) for most things and likewise shop roughly weekly.
Not sure if there's anything preventing this from happening in North America but in Japan there are stores that literally just sold broken down bulk items bought at Costco.
If you're willing to drive far and are in the western US, I highly recommend WinCo foods as a place to buy all your "normal" foods in individual units for very low prices no membership required. Theyre outside the center city usually.
I'm sorry you can't find a 2x2 foot space for extra food storage.
Almost everyone can, though. And then they can stock up tons of food in many varieties.
Next time you move apartments, consider getting one that's 5 square feet bigger.
sounds like you just want to live in europe (or probably anywhere outside of the US?). You can typically go buy a half (or quarter) loaf of bread from a baker, and street markets let you buy all the small quantities you want by the kilo
One of the few things I miss about living in Charlotte a few years back, it's the brand spanking new Lidl stores that popped up. Like mini Costcos' with decent pricing. Bright and cheery. I must've gone there daily, not least for exploring the middle mystery isle. There were Aldis' too, but they were 2 tiers below Lidl. I've been to both chains in Germany and Aldi and Lidl seemed on par there.
You can even buy half a baguette from a baker in France lol (They're already relatively small!). Love it - great for single people.
I think trader joe's is what people i know do for small curated quantities. They know what they're doing.
The shoppers there might still be the same costco members though :)
I think you’re describing Trader Joe’s for something at the giant chain level.
Trader Joes, Whole Foods, ALDI, Sprouts.
The author's view is alien to me. It paints Costco as some sort of cultural retirement home. A boring place for boring people, not just a big store in a warehouse. I know that displaying brand affinity towards some companies is seen as tasteful and praiseworthy in our cultures, but I didn't realize many people extended this view to something as basic and pragmatic as the place they go to buy flour or whatever.
Costco is a store... where coffee, usually gas and most food + home goods are reliable in quality and priced well comparatively. Comparing the price of salmon fillets at Costco to Whole Foods or elsewhere is eye-opening. Would I buy clothes or furniture from Costco? No - because both are bland. The end.
If the writer wants to make it anything more than that... They are a bit too obsessed with self-image vs wasting money and, dare I say, a loser for judging others over something as classist as personal finances. Feels like the write-up is just a statement piece meant to either rattle people for engagement or make the writer feel more hip than they actually are.
>> Would I buy clothes or furniture from Costco?
Careful - even Gen-Z is looking at Kirkland clothing for certain pieces, and some furniture (like the Murphy bed I bought from them) is better when it's bland and greige
No hate on people who buy that stuff - I like more eccentric style/colors and a specific fit that I've never seen at a Costco (athletic/form fitting vs bulky). Something like pajamas pants I would consider, but otherwise I've never had luck with their clothing and their furniture usually doesn't fit the decor of my house. I did snag a great kitchen island there last year that's held up really well, but otherwise I really don't like their couches, chairs, lawn decor, etc
I've found that the price of Costco dress shirts is good enough that I can just buy 4-6 at a time, pay to get them all tailored to be form-fitting, and I'm still hitting a good value:effort.
Costco also has a decent rotation of non-Kirkland "mall" brand clothing that frequently changes (probably intentionally so you have to come in regularly). My wife is always looking to find and replace the Lucky Brand t-shirts she found once in there.
I paid like $30 for Jeans from Costco 3 years ago and I'm shocked at how well its held up considering I wear it 90% of days.
> Careful - even Gen-Z is looking at Kirkland clothing for certain pieces […]
I've heard good things about their wool socks.
They used to be better but I stopped buying them after COVID related supply chain problems lowered the quality, at least a few years ago. Dunno if they rebounded. Supposedly they are made in the same factory as Smartwool
That seems improbable. I have bought "merino" socks from Costco and they are only something like 20% merino. I also have Smartwool socks and they are quite different.
I actually like Costco's generic black-and-orange athletic sock as a daily driver. I treat them poorly; we take off our shoes in the house but not socks. As they wear out, I throw them away; once a year I buy a new pack to refresh the losses. I use the Smartwool for activities but otherwise take good care of them. They last.
Yeah I never bothered to verify the claim of them being made in the same factory and only heard it from word of mouth from some folks.
Making two products in the same factory does not necessarily mean they are identical.
> Would I buy clothes or furniture from Costco? No - because both are bland. The end.
But they're like the gas and food at Costco - reliable in quality and comparatively well-priced. I'd buy clothes from other places if I knew where they were. Online shopping is a crapshoot and I mean that (almost) literally: they shoot crap into your mailbox. Department stores and clothes stores at the mall are overpriced for average quality. Ditto for IRL furniture stores.
I think you might be missing a subtle point about Costco, and how it fits into the social order.
Costco pledges (I have no idea if its true) that they offer goods at cost, no markup, and their profits (net income ? this is where it gets fuzzy) are simply the membership fees. In fact, I think there's a lawsuit from a Costco purchaser to get back some tariffs if Costco gets refunded tariffs.
So the idea is premium groceries (and homegoods, and tires, and pharma, etc) with zero retail markup.
Its a compelling idea, and it works because it actually seems to work. What you write is "priced well comparatively" is (according to the legend) the wholesale pricing at the quantities offered (again, I'm not sure about spoilage and some of the other details)
> I think you might be missing a subtle point about Costco
It's not a subtle point. Members buy a membership and if they shop there enough recoup the cost of the membership and more. It's their entire business model.
That assumes you believe they have no margin
> Would I buy clothes [...] from Costco?
Yes. Happily.
> It paints Costco as some sort of cultural retirement home.
which is fitting since the author used the phase "cheugy" unironically.
Yeah I shop at Costco often, I’m familiar with the folks who identify with it… I am pretty sure most folks I see there are really just shopping there.
It's America. We have mythology.
You'll never live like Costco people You'll never do what ever Costco people do Never fail like Costco people You'll never watch your life slide out of view And then dance and drink and screw Because there's nothing else to do
Are you sure you wanna live like costco people?
https://youtu.be/ainyK6fXku0
(I love the Shatner version, sorry!)
The entire Has Been album is a great work. I have many of the songs on rotation in my daily playlist. I'm very much looking forward to his heavy metal album which lands in a few months. Obviously also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdUMICxLXhM
I took her to a supermarket
I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere
So it started there
In that case I'll have a rum and Coca-Cola.
Fine.
hacker news really needs a best-of page the way craigslist did (sorry, does), just so I can nominate this. Made me discover a great song (and a great cover), with such a wry commentary (the song's and your own comment being spot on for the original drivel). Or like we used to say, you win the internet for today.
I think the most extreme hoi polloi, kings and paupers experience I've had in the U.S is at the DMV. No matter how rich you are, you have to show up in person with everyone else, from the poorest mentally ill welfare/SSDI recipient who has to get someone to help them because they can't read the forms in any language, to the extremely wealthy. Everyone has to sit there and wait on those generic plastic chairs.
False: the truly wealthy don't drive themselves anywhere.
They may not need to drive, but they need a state ID.
Passports are fine, and the facilities for getting them are nicer.
In many southern states the job is outsourced to private tag agents so there might be only a few actual DMV offices in big cities.
And in my experience this means you usually have to go to both the DMV and then across town to the tag agent.
Always found Costco's largest source of profits interesting:
> Revenue from membership fees accounts for the majority of the company's profits, accounting for over 72% of the company's net operating income in fiscal years 2022 and 2023, and 65.5% in fiscal year 2024.[115][a]
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costco#Business_model
The sentence you quoted from Wikipedia is nonsensical.
Comparing one revenue line to total net profit is a category error: the numerator and denominator measure different things.
In FY2024, Costco did $249.6B in net sales and collected $4.8B in membership fees. Gross margin on product sales was about $25B. That $25B is 5x the membership fee revenue. So, even if you consider membership fees as being free money, membership fees are only 16% of gross margin.
Moreover, without those product sales, the membership would be worth zero and no one would buy it.
Agreed it's a weird comparison, but I'd argue SG&A needs to come out of gross margin too for a fair comparison. You need a warehouse/staff/utilities/etc to sell merchandise, you need nothing to sell a membership (whether it's worth anything is another question of course).
In their 2025 filing, gross margin on merchandise was $30B, but SG&A cost $25B (with membership fees at $5.3B).
Note that $2.6B of those membership fees will go back to members as membership rewards, which is interesting too.
> The sentence you quoted from Wikipedia is nonsensical.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Feel free to click "edit" and fix it: that's kind of the whole point of Wikipedia. :)
It's a great model. We get the benefit of low prices, they get sustaining revenue that allows us to get those low prices.
I always found that weird because we get like 5x our membership dues back in rewards every year, so I guess we're the exception, rather than the rule?
The claim could be true even if every customer is exactly like you. The implication is that Costco doesn't really make money selling stuff, they just need to roughly break even. And "breaking even" here includes paying rewards on purchases. The fact that you earn a lot of rewards doesn't stop your membership dues from contributing to Costco's bottom line.
> The fact that you earn a lot of rewards doesn't stop your membership dues from contributing to Costco's bottom line.
It could also be similar insurance floats: premiums and claims generally even out, but they make their returns while they're holding people's money.
(Perhaps it's explained in their financial statements, but I've never been curious enough to check.)
Plus every manufacturer discount is technically advertising revenue for Costco (or any retailer).
Affiliations with providers of products like insurance, bottled water delivery, checks and the credit card are also sources of revenue.
If you have an executive membership they guarantee that you make back your membership dues. If you fall short you can just ask them to give you the difference (and then they will downgrade you to the regular membership).
But also remember regular members don't get cash back. The ratio is about 50/50. So about 40 million people pay for membership and don't get cash back.
> If you have an executive membership they guarantee that you make back your membership dues.
That's not quite their policy - their explicit policy is "The Reward is not guaranteed to be equal to or greater than the Executive upgrade fee paid." - but they will refund you if you ask for it.
Much like the In-N-Out secret menu, while it's not explicitly stated it's basically company policy.
Could be like gym memberships: where there's a population of folks that pay but don't make use of it (and don't bother cancelling).
The only year I broke even-ish on my executive membership was the year I bought an expensive engagement ring. All other years I (household of 3-4) went below break even. I lived 1/4th of a mile across the highway from them even. I just couldn’t make it work.
Then why keep signing up? You clearly don’t need the bulk quantities, so why put up with that inconvenience?
To justify the subscription I made the commitment to buy all my necessities there that I could, and in return I get back the equivalent of a month’s worth of free groceries.
That’s my point, it didn’t work and we did quit shopping there.
The prices never really worked out in our favor and the experience of finding a cool product we did truly love only to find it not stocked the following month is awful.
It really makes me wonder how astroturfed the brand is.
Out of curiosity, where do you shop instead? Around me the prices are better than any other stores except Aldi.
Charleston, SC circa 2018-2022
The membership has another impact on the balance sheet. It not only adds revenue, it also cuts loss from shoplifting
I grew up in a post soviet country. To me Costco, has perfected the soviet ideal of shopping more than any soviet economy ever could.
In a Costco, we are all equal. I could be shopping for the same set of beige slacks right next to the CEO of a multi-million dollar company and never know it. We'll own the same Waterpik. Identical towels. Our lawn furniture will look the same.
Everything is purchased at a fair price. And we know it's a fair price because it's Costco. The workers are happy because they are given a fair wage and respect by an executive team that doesn't think they're better than them.
Yes, you have to admit to yourself that a certain part of shopping at Costco is rejecting iconoclasm. You must be okay being part of a crowd. But the other side of that - are you able to surrender? Can you deny yourself when you find something that is legitimately good? Must you be different to the point of self-detrimental?
So yes, I will go to a store that has better olive oil or coffee or oranges. But how can you not love Costco?
> But how can you not love Costco?
I got my law degree there!
I like money.
Interestingly, my local subreddit loves to describe Costco as a late stage capitalist dystopia.
- fighting for space everywhere: fighting for a parking lot, avoiding people seeming to ram you with their shopping cart, waiting for the extended family of seven in front of you to pick a cereal so you can leave the aisle, waiting for traffic to clear so you can _leave_ the costco
- you have to pay to get in
- and then you have to pay extra to jump to the head of the line
- fights over rare stock like pokemon cards
It's wild that you can look at a physical testament of the sheer abundance and affordability that capitalism has created for almost every consumer good, and people will call it a dystopia because they experience traffic or fight over the right to buy cardboard childrens toys
I guess it feels less abundant when there's a million people in the store and you're basically in line to check out the minute you step in.
This is Costco literally suffering from success, they have had an enormous growth in subscriptions yet opening stores takes time, faces regulations, has limited availability
Ah yes, the bread lines were a sign of Soviet success! Enormous growth in demand they just had trouble keeping up with!
Could you please review and follow the site guidelines when posting here? Your account has unfortunately been breaking them in a few places. (Other examples: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48045387, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46948554).
Fortunately you're a good contributor generally, so this should be easy to fix. We'd appreciate it.
Would the world really be worse off without cardboard children's toys but also without people fighting over cardboard children's toys?
There is nothing about Costco that is causing the fighting.
It's entirely a unrelated subculture going insane about pumping up the prices of pieces of cardboard, and 30's-ish adults who never grew up mentally but now have disposable income.
Normal people buy whatever packs for the kids who proceed to play the game completely wrong.
Look, I get that everybody has a job and can't go during the week, but if you're going to Costco outside of working hours, you're doing it wrong. I dunno about fighting over pokemon cards, which like you do you, but crowding doesn't happen at 10 am on a tuesday.
people on reddit describe literally everything as late stage capitalist dystopia
Good comment, but IMHO the main reason to not love it so much is the annual membership fee. It sits well with cult cultivation. Other stores don't require it and they don't form a cult around them.
Costco derives the majority of their revenue from the membership fee, followed by services. They actually make very little on the products themselves as they have a hard cap on markups at like 11% or something around there.
The membership is the whole reason they can offer the deals they do.
> Costco derives the majority of their revenue from the membership fee,
Costco revenue is about 2% membership fee and 98% sales of merchandise and services (most of which is merchandise, not services.)
Now, the membership fee is its main source of profit (because the merchandise sales are extremely low margin), but not its main source of revenue.
> Costco derives the majority of their revenue from the membership fee […]
Costco derives the majority of their profits from the membership fee:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costco#Business_model
The annual membership fee is about customer selection, for me.
What it buys for me is, "not Walmart People". Totally worth the investment.
right, it buys Costco people. my local Haggens is a veritable paradise by comparison to the overcrowded warehouse that's too far away and closes too early to shop at after work. don't get me started on Fred Meyer clientele
On the contrary, the fact that they exclude free riders is what makes the whole thing possible.
The price is so low that it makes no real difference at this point. I barely go to my local CostCo (on the edge of being worth the annual fee myself!) because it's so incredibly crowded at all times that the savings are only worth it for more expensive items. In contrast, there are several BJ's nearby and the closest one to me is often blissfully sparse. No idea how they manage to stay in business in that location, but it's really nice.
There is no such thing as a free rider in this context, only a fee rider. After all, other supermarkets do fine without a fee. This is not Amazon Prime with free shipping that we're talking about. Charging for just the item still works.
I occasionally go into a Walmart. If a modest membership fee keeps those people out, I'm all for it.
I know what you're thinking, but if a Costco membership is elitism, then fine you can call me elitist. Along with apparently 30% of the American population over the age of 18. We're the big bad 30-percenters, I guess.
But the fee isn't an initiation ritual. It's what partially subsidizes the low prices, often at the expense of people who buy the membership and underutilize it, spending more money upfront than they save on later purchases.
The yearly fee is $65. If you save $5/month on what you buy you break even. Personally I save over $5/month just buying butter there vs buying from my local supermarket.
Most people can do even better with the executive membership if you spend ~$550 a month you'll get the $130 fee back in your rebate. That may seem like a lot but not if you buy most of your groceries there, or things like tires or book a vacation.
We get like 4-5x our exec. membership fee back in rewards cost every year - and I stopped buying tires/car batteries there (takes too long / quality no longer as good) and usually go to best buy for electronics (their return policy is no longer as good, and they often stock sub-par models, etc). Even with that, Costo is essentially paying us to save money.
Yeah, with TVs, Costcos in our area only stock one tier of Samsung models, but "worse" they're recently the 2-3 year old model that has already been superseded. And while the markup is minimal, you're still paying retail for a 3 year old model. Shades of Apple selling the Mac Pro 2019 (cheese grater) with a 4 year old Xeon processor at "full Apple" prices (I almost said full retail, but full Apple is a bit more), and with RAM prices from 4 years prior, too.
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> The bakery muffins really are smaller now than I remember them being as a kid
Costco bakery muffins are HUGE. If they're smaller now than they used to be, I'd argue maybe that's a good thing.
> They’re always in far-off places
My Costco is only about 1 1/2 miles away. Literally walked there for lunch once.
> the building, an aircraft hangar–size warehouse spectacle operated very much in line with casino design: a place with no outside source of light
Odd, the author mentions living in Portland, and every Costco in the Portland metro area has skylights.
Out of all the things I enjoy buying at Costco, the bakery section is mostly a miss. Cookies are bland and they make you buy bottom tier flavors like oatmeal to subsidize the macadamia's. Muffins are bland and tasteless. Bagels are just circular bread instead of a nice chewy outside. They also use carraway seeds in their everything seasoning, so too much licorice for my personal tastes. At .50 a pop I have no complaints on the croissants.
Maybe the East coast bakery just can't compete, but I find time and time again I want to buy something yummy and can't find anything that is worth it.
> They’re always in far-off places
That's yet another thinly disguised case of punching down: the author wants you to know that they are not the type of person who lives close to a Costco, typically in the suburbs. This author's attitude is so tiresome.
they recently stopped selling the iconic muffins, the new muffins are trash
I just got (at 38) a Costco membership this year, thanks to my in-laws gifting us a membership. There's another huge discount retailer here in Boston (BJs) that I have gone to for years, but Costco is another 10+ min drive away so I've resisted thus far. I will say... I'm still adjusting.
- No aisle signs or labels anywhere. I understand the retail strategy here but the lack of efficiency in MY experience kills me. Clearly they can't move the bakery, or meat department. But after ~5 visits I still have no idea where some basic products can be found.
- Who is buying a kayak, or shed while shopping for groceries?
- I continually make the mistake of going during the weekend when it is the most packed store on Earth. There were no less than 3 Cybertrucks in the parking lot.
I don't have the "must-buy" item yet, but every time I go, I feel like I need to take a nap after.
I have talked my wife out of us both nearly impulse-buying a mini greenhouse at Costco multiple times.
And the worst part is, I regret it. We need a greenhouse now and greenhouse prices are through the roof! I can't afford NOT to impulse buy a greenhouse at Costco 18 months ago now! I'll never make that mistake again.
Sometimes you just have to trust your Coscto instincts.
And let go of Costco regret.
I got a Costco greenhouse a few years ago, sorry they're overpriced now - I enjoy mine more than I expected and I thought it'd be fun.
I have had to repeatedly talk myself out of buying various greenhouses and sheds from Costco. They'd be so USEFUL darnit!
> No aisle signs or labels anywhere. I understand the retail strategy here but the lack of efficiency in MY experience kills me. Clearly they can't move the bakery, or meat department. But after ~5 visits I still have no idea where some basic products can be found.
What are you having trouble finding, out of curiosity? In my Costco everything is pretty much in the same general area. They might move stuff a little bit, but it's pretty consistent.
> Who is buying a kayak, or shed while shopping for groceries?
I see this as separate trips for the larger items. Nobody is buying appliances either when you buy meat or paper towels. Also, Costco never fully replaces a full grocery store in my experience. You just don't need things in the sizes they sell them for many goods. Certain foodstuffs are really designed for restaurants and not people. Like, who is buying the 40 lb bags of flour besides people VERY into baking or restaurants?
> What are you having trouble finding, out of curiosity?
Five employees couldn't find the macarons (I found them next to the raw chicken!?)
The snack bars are being moved around. Now some of the ones we buy are with the toothpaste!?
My wife asks me to pick up some sort of caffeine product. There's three spots they could be in she tells me to look. Sometimes that doesn't work either.
We're considering cancelling. We don't drive much and our vehicles are electric. Not a lot of extra money for their vacation packages.
I do agree that Costco's can be laid out pretty differently and I get confused. My home Costco flows in a circle where you first see:
1. appliances/bedding/toothbrushes 2. alcohol 3. refrigerated foods with the bakery/meat department 4. cleaning products and flats of drinks 5. dry foods
when this cycle is broken or changed in a different Costco I am visiting, I feel VERY lost
The biggest thing I've noticed is a Costco chirality. My home Costco was right-handed (enter on the right, things are in the same order you described, exit on the left), but then I moved and now my local Costco is left-handed (pretty much the same but mirrored, except, for whatever reason, the alcohol, which precedes the perishables rather than succeeding them). Kinda funny.
Flour lasts basically indefinitely in a deep freezer. I just emptied out the last bits of a bag bought during covid and it was fine.
This is in food grade air tight sealed buckets so ymmv.
Who wants to waste freezer space with 40 lbs of flour? Pretty bad use unless, again, you love baking or don’t have a use for it.
Also, most flour lasts well past the 12 month expiration just fine. Barely a need to freeze it.
Long ago we found that we saved more money shopping at Costco than the membership cost by a long shot. We even get the executive membership because they will refund the difference of you don’t get at least that back rewards (we always have).
For things that are acceptable, it’s usually hard to beat Costco. You have to give up variety, possibly brand choice, and maybe even buy more than you’ll use, but it works out to be significantly cheaper. There are categories, however, where Costco is never the cheapest (soft drinks) or where the commodity store brand is significantly worse than alternatives (batteries).
> where the commodity store brand is significantly worse than alternatives (batteries).
Kirkland batteries actually last longer than Duracell. They're some of the best alkaline batteries you can get, especially considering the price. Sure, lithium batteries will last longer, but the mAh per dollar is lower, so they'll still cost more.
https://youtu.be/8VumAfhdhAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ_tGjXm0Ng
It’s probably my own battery hygiene, but I’ve had so many Kirkland batteries leak over the years that I no longer trust them. I still buy batteries at Costco, but haven’t had the same issue with the name brand leaking.
Wild. I wonder what could cause that?
I don't use a lot of AA/AAA batteries, so I'll buy a pack from Costco and it'll sit in my drawer for 5+ years without issue. They go into a TV remote or bathroom scale or whatever and last a couple years with no issue.
The only time this happens to me is when there is a drain on the battery over a long time, or when you have two cells that don't have matching voltage and the lower one gets over-discharged. I've never had one go bad from sitting in a drawer or a box.
It’s always in a device. Typically low power, long duration (remotes, etc.)
I've actually had a whole pile of Duracell CR2023 batteries from Costco leak inside the packaging. (You can google for various reports/pictures of the problem.)
That has not been my experience at all. I think Kirkland batteries have less capacity than the premium brands. Also the point of lithium batteries is that they don't leak, not that they last longer.
> I think Kirkland batteries have less capacity than the premium brands
If you're comparing alkaline to alkaline, it's simply not true. The two videos I linked showed people testing it.
> Also the point of lithium batteries is that they don't leak, not that they last longer.
Well, they DO last longer by a significant margin. Again, this was tested in the second video I linked. The description in the video has a link to the spreadsheet of their data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KwTt0lu7_aytity4IE3S...
Kirkland Alkaline was on par with the Rayovac Fusion+ and Duracell Powerboost. Only Rayovac Fusion was noticeably better (oddly, the non-plus version was better), and even then, it's not significantly better considering the price.
In terms of dollars per mAh, Kirkland is #2, only behind AmazonBasics.
> Also the point of lithium batteries is that they don't leak, not that they last longer.
Not leaking is part of the point, but it's definitely not the only point. Alkaline batteries have half the capacity (roughly) compared to lithium cells. They also have lower voltages over time vs. lithium cells and are capable of less current. For certain applications (high current draw intermittent, or long life low current) they excel, and leaking isn't really part of that conversation.
> cheapest (soft drinks)
24 pack of v8 Energy Drinks are super cheap at Costco, usually $13.49 versus $17+ at other retailers.
For standard soda (Coke or Pepsi depending on location) Costco is rarely the cheapest deal at any given time but they are consistently fair. Supermarkets will have regular prices cases at nearly double Costco unit costs, but on sale they are moderately cheaper.
I’ve long since stopped worrying about saving a couple bucks per case while timing deals and simply buy from Costco instead. The couple bucks a month it runs me is worth not worrying about the mental overhead.
The #1 thing for me at Costco is the gas. I have the credit card, so I get 5% cash back on the first $7,000 of gas I purchase in a year. Being as that, as of now I am spending ~$70/week on fuel, I will not hit the max for the year.
But 5% cash back on ($70*52=)$3640 means I get $182/yr by default back to cover the $130 annual cost of the executive membership. Doesn't sound like a good deal until you also factor in that their fuel is typically 10 cents a gallon or more cheaper than the next least expensive fuel place, which means that for my roughly 650 gallons of fuel a year baseline costco gas saves me an additional $65.
So yeah, nothing really amazing, but the fact that having the membership lets me pocket something in the neighborhood of $120/yr on top of the occasional shopping trip and access is nice.
They also use "Top Tier+" gas.
There are so many people like you (who only use it for gas) that they are now building Costco gas stations not attached to a warehouse. Massive stations like the ones near the warehouses.
My first trip to Costco was also fairly recent.
I think I've gotten the hang of it fairly well. Coffee is over by the coolers but not in them, cat little is on the back wall, specialty cheese is near the meat, Kirland cheese is near the end of one of the coolers, cheap winter jackets are somewhere in the middle between the pants and the tortilla chips, motor oil is at the far right, bread on the left near the old people, and the big expensive life-optional stuff is at the front.
Everything else is either on the way between those points, or it doesn't exist today (because even if it is there, I'll never find it).
Seems good enough for now.
The "correct" way to shop at Costco is to wind through every aisle. They want you to discover what they have - what's new, what's gone, what's on sale, try some samples etc. There are some general anchors like the fridge, the alcohol, the produce section but it's otherwise pretty ephemeral.
It's not the kind of place where you go in with a shopping list, make point-to-point pickups and then checkout.
Ya I don't see the appeal either. Imo it's just a place that takes advantage of suburbanites' love of buying excessive amounts of crap they don't need while simultaneously avoiding the spaces outside their car, work, or home. All the more power to them!
I'll join on an occasional trip if I feel like it's a chicken month, but ultimately it seems like a place designed to make it as easy as possible to spend more than I normally would on large amounts of mediocre or bad food and products. It's not remotely a natural optimization of my normal buying habits.
Ironically, I do have a must buy item though, which is the plush blankets.
It makes way more sense to me to just always have a backpack and pick up a few items at a time from smaller shops or other chains, and pay to live closer to these places
> Who is buying a kayak, or shed while shopping for groceries?
Who's buying groceries while kayak shopping? The point is if you want to buy something, you can go to CostCo. The thing you want might be groceries, but sometimes people want other things.
The American mind must be studied.
I saw someone leaving buc-ees at 10:30pm who just purchased a huge fire pit and was franticly trying to jam it in the back of a large chevy. I can only imagine they went for stacks due to the poor planning
if nobody is buying them, you have to wonder why they are for sale. my guess is someone is buying them
Nah, Costco is so crowded and such long checkout lines. No one buys anything there.
I hate going there. It's so crowded, the lines are massive, and all so you can save like $200 at the end of the year on some groceries. The other problem is that you end up impulse buying well over $200 worth of stuff you wouldn't have purchased if you just went to the regular grocery store. Oh but you have to go to the grocery store anyways after your 2 hour long Costco trip, because the shit they had last week is gone now. But hey at least you waited in line for another 40 minutes to save $3.00 on your tank of gas you bought while you were there.
I have friends who have membership to Costco, Sam's and BJs. And when they need to buy stuff they go to nearest market from home (none of above 3). Despite working from home forever, they just don't have time to go to these warehouse stores.
My takeaway is at certain income level and lifestyle, one can have all memberships but don't find use of any.
It's odd to me thinking people consider Costco a grocery store. I realize they have groceries but that certainly isn't what I use it for.
Half the store is food - it's an excellent grocery store.
It's much closer to a restaurant supply store that happens to be open to normal people.
If I want to make tacos tonight, and I try to shop for that at Costco, I'm making tacos for a week or more. There's no small size of anything, which is the entire point.
I cannot fathom the people who do weekly or so grocery shopping there. How can you possibly plan out a months worth of pantry for a family like that? It's a skill I certainly don't have but families did for millennia when running small farms and such. Maybe the Navy could teach me how.
I'm a single person and I do almost all of my grocery shopping at Costco. I have a normal sized refrigerator, and a well stocked pantry. If you make tacos one night, make dishes the next three nights that use overlapping ingredients...
"It's weird that everyone doesn't behave exactly like me." I believe that's what the kids call main character energy.
Really? Even meats? Or drinks?
I'm from East Asia, where every supermarket brand is basically the same aside from a few different products. When I moved to North America, this whole concept of tiered supermarkets felt really weird and exotic to me. Like, this is the most basic stuff you need, and you still need to tier it down? I'm kinda used to it now, but it still feels very American to me.
China at least has this. The stuff you get at the Ole Supermarket inside a shopping mall is different from the stuff you get from the little store facing the street on the ground floor of your apartment building.
> petroliferous
Sent me to the shelf, but one has to appreciate the word choice. Evokes the peanut oil spilling everywhere, the reach for geologic terminology captures the lithic aspects of the peanut butter underneath.
Once or twice a year I have a chance to go to costco in the middle of a work day and I'm absolutely blown away at how busy the place is at that time. People everywhere young and old, even kids! Long lines and nobody is rushed.
I want to live like Costco people because apparently they don't work in the middle of the day!
For several years I worked the weekend night shift. This left me with 4 free days each week to do whatever. I thought this put me on the fridges of society to some respect, and I would constantly wonder what all these people were out doing all day and why weren't they at work.
I think the same thing when a majority of businesses are primarily open 9-5 when they are consumer facing. I have to assume most consumers need hours on evenings and weekends, but I guess it all works out.
I suppose a decent number of people work on the weekend have have varying days off during the week and there are those who don't work for one reason or another (retirees, people with disabilities, single-income homes with more than a single person, vacation days, etc). I guess that all adds up.
It's interesting how Millennials seem to be embracing boring practicality as they get older. Brands like Costco, Toyota, Ikea, minivans, etc are all staging a comeback as middle-aged Millennials decide they don't have time to deal with hassles or money to pay for overpriced status symbols.
Indeed Costco is a very practical store. You can trust most of the food to taste good because they test it first, vs a throw everything at the wall and see what sticks approach to a standard grocery store. Trader Joe's is is probably the best in this regard.
The return policy also takes away a lot of concern. If you don't like it you can easily just take it back without any hassle.
They learned their lesson from buying Allbirds shoes 10 years ago.
Embracing? Get older? This is just how my parents raised me.
I have a Costco that is walking distance from my office. If I need to decompress, I walk to Costco for lunch solo, get a hot dog and a slice of pizza, sit down, and watch both the people and what's in their cart. It's so diverse and pretty fascinating.
Hot dog and a slice? That's your calorie needs for the day.
Unless you are particularly sedentary, 1200 calories is pretty low for daily consumption.
I'm thinking their hotdogs are huge, like 1/2 lb?
And the slices are huge also.
And most people probably get a 32oz cup of sugar water with them.
Maybe I'm overestimating.
Fair, I did leave out the soda that comes with the hotdog. But that could be a diet soda. (and seems to frequently be, given that my local Costco has 4 diet coke spouts, as opposed to 1-2 of any others)
I did look up the calorie count for both. 550-ish for the hotdog, 650-ish for the pizza.
The hot dogs are 1/4 lb, with the bun it's probably 500-600 calories.
hotdogs are 1/4lb, sodas are ~22oz
If I eat just a hot dog or just a single slice, I'll still be hungry.
Eating a hot dog and a slice, or two slices, and I won't be hungry...for an hour or two.
...I need to get a doctor and ask about a GLP-1.
LOL, don't mess this up for me.
The food court is where we can all be ourselves.
When I shop early I salute the people having breakfast in the food court. One afternoon I saw people at a table with an empty rotisserie chicken package, hittin' their macros. I had my baby with me one time, offering him bites of my hotdog and being praised for being a man spending time with my child as if I had vaccinated a needy village.
I shop at Costco not because of the price or the bulk formats. It's not always a good deal vs other places. The value to me is not having to worry about quality. Any product that is not satisfactory gets returned with no hassle.
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My motto in life is, "If I need it and it's available at Costco, I buy it at Costco"
I don't feel the need to demonstrate my unique personality through where I buy groceries.
Part of growing up is realizing that the places where a person eats or shops, what music and entertainment they consume, what clothes they wear - are entirely uncorrelated with their personality and character and worth. And cringing hard at your own past teenage past self who confused such superficial identity markers with personality.
Unfortunately, it sounds like the article's author is only on their first step of this realization.
Right, I noped out of this article when I realized it felt like a guy making up a whole population he could do some elevated punching down at to offset some ostensible self deprecation. What a chore.
Of course, one can overgeneralize the correlations between consumption preferences and personality (character is vague and worth practically undefined) but it seems absurd to claim they are entirely uncorrelated. Take the Big Five traits: conscientiousness, agreeableness, neuroticism, openness to experience, extroversion. Each has numerous obvious implications for consumer preferences. Do you mean something else by "personality" or perhaps "growing up"?
I'm quite curious what initially instills this juvenile idea in us. I expect it's advertising which actively seeks to foment this nonsense by implying that if you buy this or that you will become this or that.
I'm guessing the title is a reference to Pulp - Common People
Jarvis Cocker wrote Common People about a girl he did actually know, who was "identified" as Danae Stratou, daughter of a Greek textile magnate, and while she said "the only person who knows for sure is Cocker himself", emails between her and her husband indicated that she saw herself saying and doing several of the things he references, "yeah, I'm rather ashamed to admit it, that -does- sound like me and things I'd say then".
And then Disco 2000 was written about Deborah Bone, childhood friend who was a mental health nurse (who helped form Step2 and created the Brainbox), and said the only thing inaccurate about the song was that her home did not have "woodchips on the wall". She said, shortly before she died of myeloma, that she "did grow up and sleep with Jarvis Cocker, somebody had to, and it was perfectly innocent" (I think the implication is that they fell asleep together).
Not of any great relevance. I just see myself as a collector of information that might only be useful for music trivia nights...
You probably know the details better than I do (and perhaps there's a later twist I'm unaware of) but in 2022 Cocker denied that it was Stratou:
Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s This Cultural Life (via The Mirror), Cocker addressed claims that the inspiration was Danae Stratou, a Greek woman who attended St Martin’s at the same time as Jarvis, but confirmed that “it wasn’t her because she had blonde hair and the girl had dark hair.”
https://www.nme.com/news/music/jarvis-cocker-is-on-a-quest-t...
Huh, interesting. I do know someone else (Katerina Kana) had claimed it was her, not Danae, but that Cocker hadn't commented on her claim.
> emails between her and her husband
If we're dropping random trivia it should probably be mentioned that her husband is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanis_Varoufakis
And browse and grab and queue because there is nothing else to do!
You’re probably right, but Pet Shop Boys also have a take on the theme - https://youtu.be/eQLpNpSXewo?si=bYSSBpoDAL2HKMI3
I'm a fan of the Shatner version after seeing it suggested here a few weeks back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuyV76SG6qg
I wanna live like Costco people I wanna do whatever Costco people do Wanna sleep with Costco people I wanna sleep with Costco people like you. Well, what else could I do? I said, "I'll... I'll see what I can do.
"And she just laughed and said 'Oh, you're so funny.' And I said 'Yeah, well, I can't see anyone else smiling in here'."
... which often mirrors my feelings in Costco, particularly near the registers, where oftentimes in my local stores it feels more akin to the Thunderdome.
“…and let the deals, wrap their arms around me”
—Death Cab for Cutie
Acquired did a fantastic podcast about the history of Costco. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/costco
Agreed. Recommended.
I wonder how many other people do this: when my wife and I do long roadtrips, we use Costcos as waypoints. Need to refuel? Costco gas is always cheaper than whatever other fill up station is nearby. Need to re-up on snacks (and maybe see what weird snacks the locals have that we don’t have back home)? Costco. Realize you forgot to pack enough socks halfway between Los Angeles and Salt Lake City? No prob, the St George Costco had the same exact socks I have at home because all of my socks are from Costco. Ran over a nail and need a tire swapped? Costco tire warranty babbbyyy. Bathroom? Costco bathrooms are very basic but always clean.
In big adventure RPG games there’s always some kind of shop in every new area that is the same inside everywhere that you can reliably go to for whatever gear you need, to heal, to save your game, whatever. Costco is that but in real life.
Huh. It's the exact opposite of what I'd look for in a roadtrip waypoint.
Gas line. Nightmare parking lot to get in and out of. Long walk to the store. Long walk to find anything. Slow checkout.
I guess narrowing it to "cheap gas, availability of familiar goods and bathrooms, with an on-site tire shop" helps make it make a _bit_ more sense, but the (lack of) speed would just be a deal-killer for me.
I don’t even think Costco is all that cheap!
Yes, many things are slightly - a few percent - cheaper than many other stores, per unit weight/volume, but it’s not a a big difference. Some things are more expensive though, like meat and fish. It seems “cheap” only if you do most of your other grocery shopping in premium grocery stores (eg Whole Foods). I do most of my grocery shopping in Market Basket, and it’s about the same as Costco for most things I buy. And everything comes in normal sized portions!
Costco’s real benefit is that everything they sell is pretty good stuff, and nothing is outrageously overpriced. Eg They sell Goya beans, for more per can than supermarket brand beans, but less than Goya beans in supermarkets. Many things are like this. You can assume that the things Costco sells are The Good Brands, but you can get most things cheaper if you’re not brand sensitive.
There are many things for which buying in bulk is a false economy: I will *ever again buy Costco-sized containers of eg yogurt covered raisins, or praline covered almonds! I suspect that every trip to Costco used to raise my average body weight for the next year by half a pound. Especially if I went to Costco hungry! Never go to Costco hungry!
> I love Adams crunchy peanut butter, but an 82-ounce jar is so massive and petroliferous with oil that you’d need a paint mixer to properly incorporate it all.
I cannot recommend Kirkland Natural Creamy Peanut Butter highly enough. Ingredients: 100% roasted Valencia peanuts. Sold as a package of two 1kg jars.
As a long-time Costco member, I can relate to this story. I don't expect to find everything I need there, but buying the 'staples' there saves money.
My biggest complaint has always been the enormous size of perishable items. Yes, you can buy a 10 lb bag of apples for much less than other stores; but does it really save you if almost half of it goes bad before you eat it all.
Even when my four always-hungry children lived at home, we had trouble consuming many things we bought. I always thought that Costco would make a killing if they broke up their fruit bags and assembled assorted fruit baskets to sell. Buy 10 lbs, but get it as a mix of apples, oranges, grapes, and lemons.
Also cut their chocolate cakes in half. They would sell more than twice as many.
Mortified that this guy calls himself a Portlander yet mail-orders subscription coffee from L.A.
I like Costco, but it also helps there's one around the corner from my house. That said, I prefer the shopping experience at Sam's, with their mobile checkout. Of course, they're currently building one just a mile from my house. :-)
My wife had the Costco membership and had a tendency to buy in quantities that were a bit much for the two of us. Our freezer was always packed. Now that she's passed, I went and got my own membership (and requisite Visa card), just for the things available there I can't get elsewhere. My goal is to try to avoid the allure of buying inappropriate amounts. We'll see how that goes.
Costco is the last holdout of true American abundance. In the 90s abundance seemed everywhere, even if out of reach. The difference in quality of a service or product was clear at higher price points. Now as a rich adult I generally feel poor, even at fancy restaurants. Nearly everything feels meagre, flimsy & rationed, despite being insanely expensive. Like that scene in Jojo Rabbit where the kids are wearing cardboard uniforms .
I buy 95% of my food and most of my household items from Costco. I will blindly buy any item without reading reviews. Out of thousands of purchases I can count the failures on one hand.
Many ridicule Costco for being excessive. But frugal buyers can produce great value out of 25 lbs of flour, 10 lb bags of rice and so on. With proper home economics you can still eat like a king on a lower-middle-class budget. I'm very proud of the nutritious and luxurious meals I produce with what most people are paying for Doritos & Mountain Dew.
I will never live out of reach of a Costco. It's the second most important factor when I live somewhere.
I'm 43, own a home, live in Seattle, and feel attacked by this article.
"every Costco shopper has a certain item or two they’re compelled to purchase on each visit"
Organic, single-serving guacamole and Magic Spoon cereal for me.
My toddler is obsessed with their mammoth two dollar slices of cheese pizza and talks constantly about wanting to go to Costco to have pizza with his little bestie.
Costco is such a family friendly place. My kids love going there.
They've made some deliberate decisions to make it family friendly:
1. The aisles are wide so the whole family can walk through the store together.
2. The kids love free samples
3. The food court is a great place to have an inexepensive dinner.
4. The store is designed so there's nothing really to grab at ground level if you're a little kid. Everything is up higher.
Contrast this with a standard grocery store: small aisles and tons of little things on the shelf at ground level (including random toys) that can get grabbed or knocked over. Every time I take my family to Albertsons I have to pick a dozen things off the ground that we accidentally knocked off.
I feel compelled to add that we took our toddler to Costco after daycare today. He had his slice of pizza, I got my guacamole and gluten-free, high protein Magic Spoon cereal. Somehow we spent $500. Everyone left happy and thoroughly exhausted.
> I will never buy Costco coffee—I know too much about coffee, and my allegiance to a coterie of indie micro roasters (Yes Plz subscription for life) and esoteric brewing methods has ruined me for life from enjoying the simple pleasures of a Kirkland Signature K-Cup pod.
You can pry the 2-lb bags of Mayorga Cafe Cubano dark roast coffee from my cold, dead hands.
Ruta Maya is quite good as well, probably not as big of a coffee snob as the author though.
An author who lives in Portland but gets a mail-order coffee subscription from California, no less. A half-dozen indie microroasters within 2 miles of him? _Not good enough_
I'm reading the comments here and confused by one thing... Do people here not purchase fresh fruit and vegetables on a regular basis (i.e. multiple times a week)? I am not an expert on Costco but it seems insane to visit a store the size of Costco every couple of days just to buy some tomatoes and parsley.
I usually buy ephemeral fruits and vegetables frequently, and in small quantities. So, no: I don't go to Costco for those things. That's in-and-out local grocery store stuff, not Costco trip stuff.
When I'm at Costco for other stuff I might buy some produce, though. It depends on what they've got today, the status of what they have (produce quality can vary quite a lot from day-to-day in any given store), and whether I expect to be able to use all of it before it becomes gross.
Mostly what I come home from Costco with is multipacks of [household-sized] canned goods, cheese (which keeps fine in the fridge), meat (to be frozen), and onions (big bag == big onions). Oh, and cat food and kitty litter. Canned V8 juice also comes from Costco at a fraction of grocery store prices. Their OTC medicine is cheap, which is important for stuff I take every day (yay pollen!). These are all things that I will use, and which I save a good deal of money on.
They don't have everything. Often, they very distinctly do not have what I want. If I go there expecting to find a particular flavor of dish detergent or canned salsa, I will probably be disappointed.
What they do have tends to be a very attractive combination of quality and price. Those purchases are successes.
These little successes feel better than getting shafted over and over again by Kroger.
I've become a Costco person in recent years. At least in my perception, inflation has affected grocery stores unevenly:
Whole Foods: eye-bogglingly expensive (and no, I don't think it always was)
Wegmans: substantially more expensive than a few years ago, and a noticeable decline in produce quality
Trader Joes: incredible value on many prepared foods, but not the best source for staples like rice or paper products.
Costco is not inflation-proof by any means but they have pretty much 0 margins and they're reliably the best value on just about whatever they sell. The selection can be limited in some ways compared to a supermarket, and they can be a bad place to be health conscious (as it can be hard to resist massive containers of ultra cheap and delicious treats of various kinds) or to try to try to be an ethical consumer (and please spare me the HN cynical line on this, I get it, I have no real agency and I'm pathetically guilt-ridden): I've read bad things about their meat sourcing, they rarely have coffee with bona fides like fair trade or shade grown, I see controversial products like bird's nest soup, etc.
I was a coffee snob, but now I'm buying coffee in Costco, you just have to do it online:
https://www.costco.com/p/-/kirkland-signature-organic-ethiop...
https://www.costco.com/p/-/mayorga-buenos-das-usda-organic-l...
I have no idea why do they not sell these(light roast) ones in warehouses.
My local Costco carries the fair trade artisanal coffee brand that is roasted in my city, just in a 3 pound bag of beans instead of a 1 pound bag of beans like at the bougie grocery store. I can understand not wanting the Kirkland brand coffee, but that is far from the only coffee brand for sale at Costco. I am a coffee snob of the highest order and I buy my beans at Costco.
They've got decent beans, but you can't get anything with more exotic processing techniques, e.g. lactic or carbonic maceration.
I get my beans for my summer cold brew at Costco, but my typical pour over beans elsewhere.
That's true, but mostly due to simple logistical constraints, more exoticly prepared beans generally don't keep as well on the shelf and need to be used shortly after roasting. I do a pour over in a Chemex every morning and use the beans I buy at Costco which are a locally medium-roasted, but not specially prepared. For more exotic stuff I get them directly from a local roaster in smaller quantities to be used within a week.
Whole Foods started wildly expensive, toned down a lot after the Amazon bought them, and then creeped back up to wildly expensive the last few years.
Huh, really? Re: Wegmans. For me they still have the best produce quality by far.
Agree their prices have gone up in general though.
It's probably very store specific. If you know the Market Basket in Somerville, MA, it's got a legendary produce section. I've been to locations in NH with crap.
IMO H-Mart is the safest bet in the Boston area for high quality produce (outside of farmers markets, natch)
Being "Costco people" is easy. The quality of the product is good, the prices are good, there's little "choice paralysis" and it's all under one roof. But socially, it's like having IKEA art on your walls. You don't want to have the same thing everyone else has; as a host (if you still do that sort of thing) or potluck participant, you have to somehow differentiate yourself. Of course you can cook interesting stuff from ingredients found at Costco, but serving any kind of ready made snacks or meal items from Costco is just lame given that your guests are probably Costco-istas too.
I love Costco. Jim Senegal (former CEO of Costco) is what I wish more CEOs were like.
I have a large family, so we buy almost everything at Costco.
When I was kid I was so mortified when my parents suggested to buy clothes at Costco.
Now I think half my clothes come from Costco.
I tried to go the Costco route, but somehow it didn't click for me. The portion sizes were too large.
As a household of 1, it just doesn't make sense to buy that much of most things, unless I'm sure they're almost entirely non-perishable. Maybe it would be fine for my cereal or something, but not a lot of what I buy. And, by design, they limit their SKUs a fair amount.
So ultimately I end up in a situation where I can buy a couple things at Costco, but then still need to do regular grocery trips.
Now I need to drive to 2 separate stores, which is extra trips there and back.
The math just didn't work out. If I could truly do 100% of my grocery shopping there I would.
I've been a costco member for more than 10 years now since it's about a 7 minute drive from my home. It's really fun to discover new things they bring in, like a flea market kind of vibe.
These past 2 years it has gotten significantly worse. Too crowded. Too many people who have no common decency of not blocking the lane. And way way way too many instacart delivery people FLOORING IT to get their next item pickup and leave. Looking at their phone and bumping into people/stuff. I don't like the vibes.
The one cool thing they have now is the 9am executive hours where you can go in earlier than normal. That feels more like the costco of 2016 to me.
There was the best university in the world -- Costco University, in the movie Idiocracy.
Costco is my least favorite part of middle age. Although, I do generally like their products and pricing.
For some reason my wife likes taking more time there than other places we shop for food, and I get anxious to get it over with. You can bet most of the times I wander off to get things off our list that she's herself wandered off, and the Costco we go to doesn't have good cell coverage. So I then end up both anxious about spending all day shopping, and annoyed that I can't find my wife.
I am sure I'm not the only one. I try to go alone, or stay in the car this happens so often.
I figured out that when I push the cart, my wife runs all over and I struggle to keep up and navigate the cart between the crowds and it's an anxiety inducing experience trying to keep up before she turns a corner, then another, never to be seen again.
When she is encumbered with navigating the cart, it's quite easy to stay nearby as all her movements have to be more considered. This also generally restricts her to the same lumbering speed as all the other carts in the store.
I like to pretend I'm driving a boat and enjoy the sightseeing and people watching. If he finds something he likes, he has to find me with the cart eventually!
This has nothing to do with Costco. You have described a relationship/communication problem, not a Costco problem.
It only happens at Costco. It's a Costco problem.
Importantly, I am not blaming Costco for my Costco problem.
It's giving "Frasier Crane goes to Costco."
But yes, you can buy many different items there. Many come in large packages. The public can be found there shopping too. You are not required to purchase every item. Welcome to the 90s and holy shit thanks for the journalism.
I let my Costco membership lapse because it's cheaper, healthier and more pleasant to buy 1) small quantities, of 2) fresh foods, in a 3) nice store, that is preferably 4) nearby, and 5) quietly forget to buy all the other crap you don't need.
Frasier, at a free sample station: I do thank you, but I'm afraid I'm rather particular about the provenance of my shellfish. To subject a scampi to the radiation of a microwave is not cooking, madam, it's an execution! My god, Niles, is that a '98 Chateau Latour in your cart?
Niles: I've already secured six cases! They're over there, just between the Kirkland Signature Leaf Blowers and the 5 pound bags of "Kickin' Queso Jalapeño Poppers"!
Martin: Oh I LOVE those, where?
PSA: You don't need a Costco membership to buy from Costco.com. You pay a surcharge of 5%. A membership is $60, so if you spend less than $1200/yr on their website, it's better not to buy one.
> the great parking lot of dreams
I don't know what Costco parking lots in the PNW are like but in the NE, they're a nightmare. People racing around, lining up and jockeying for spots, enormous carts careening around and being left ... wherever because people can't be bothered to put them back. My family has a membership but I permanently opted out after one trip to the Danbury, CT location.
> otherwise you are rarely confronted by the staff here, and I like that.
That is, until they try to stop you from leaving the store with your property until you show them a receipt.
> ... I don't know what Costco parking lots in the PNW are like but in the NE...
I live near, and commute by, one of the PNW Costcos in the PDX area the author explicitly references. I can confirm that just the mere sight of the parking lot, at all hours, has been the primary factor in my refusing to get a membership. Plenty of friends and family I trust love Costco, and I'm sure they're right and that I'd find lots to appreciate, but that damn parking lot madness is such a hump for me to get over.
FWIW, I'm referring to the Beaverton Costco right next to Nike.
Nashua NH Costco is crowded most days, but not near what you're describing.
I also don't like the door check 'game.' Additionally, being hounded at checkout to upgrade your plan while juggling a 5 year old, dealing with payment, and a line full of people behind you is not enjoyable.
My secret is just parking immediately on the edge of the lot and walking the 100 yards on in. People will play this stupid game for 10 minutes getting steaming red waiting for a spot near the front and I'm already shopping.
This is a good option if there are any spots available. At my local Costcos (Danbury and Orange, CT) the lots are often completely full and there's a queue just to enter the lot.
In my experience no one bothers checking the spots in the rear of the store by the workers smoking section.
That Danbury one is aggressive for sure. I've found the ones in the South Bay to be more crowded but less angry customers.
> That is, until they try to stop you from leaving the store with your property until you show them a receipt.
The accountholder is required to show it, It is in Costco's terms and conditions.
Sure. That doesn't make it any less confrontational and obnoxious for me. It's one of the primary factors in my decision not to shop there.
My family and I recently completed this Costco 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle made by Dowdle Folk Art(1). And I have to say, I had a very similar feeling to what the author of this piece is describing. Lots of different people, all walks of life, and no words requiring a dictionary! (looking at you, "Contrapuntal")
(1)https://boardwalkpuzzles.com/products/costco-treasure-hunt-1...
From the article:
> Contrapuntal to the list of things we must buy on each visit, there is perhaps a more controversial list.
That's... a very strange application of the word. I’ve only ever seen it used in the context of baroque music, interchangeable with the idea of counterpoint referring to independent melodic lines in a piece, such as you would see in Bach’s The Well-Tempered Clavier. Using it here feels forced and out of place.
Living in Japan, I have a membership because it's a good source of western food at a cheaper price than most import shops. Good bacon and cheese isn't common over here.
The lack of real bacon is shocking for sure.
I've only been to Costco a handful of times in my life. It seems like each time, there were hordes of people standing lifelessly in a huge line waiting to check themselves out(sometimes with help from an employee), which took longer than it should. Then, once that task was accomplished, they'd then stand in another huge line waiting to leave. Is this the typical experience or did I just happen to pick the worst times/locations?
I happily pay more at places like Publix to -not- have to do that.
This was my experience, too. I have tried going at noon on weekdays, as soon as the store opens, and every other time folks on the internet have recommended. Every single time, it was an absolute slog to get through aisles full of oblivious people blocking areas with their carts and (hilariously) getting mad at you for asking them to move their cart.
Also, this may be my own bias coloring my perception but there was a palpable undertone among some of the shoppers of “at least we’re not Walmart customers”.
I’m sure quite a few Costco members enjoy the treasure hunt model they offer but I’d much rather have an option to order online and go pick up what I need or, failing that, labeled aisles.
To Costco’s credit, though, they refunded my membership fee in full as soon as I asked to cancel. And their return policy the one time I had to use it was exceptional as well. It’s a shame the rest of the experience has to be such a sensory overload.
> I have tried going at noon on weekdays, as soon as the store opens, and every other time folks on the internet have recommended.
Whoever told you to go at noon on a weekday was pulling your leg. That's when all the peeps with jobs go to shop and get a quick lunch on their lunch break. It's always packed then.
At open on a weekday is usually pretty good, but 30 minutes after open might be better (if you've got the executive membership with an exclusive hour, then be sure to go then). Never go on the weekend, unless maybe 30 minutes before closing, if you know what you want and where it is. Or you can probably go during the super bowl, but not before or after. Double don't go on the weekend before a weekday holiday.
In my experience, get there as early as possible and it's not bad. But that's the standard for these membership stores, although Sam's Club has the edge being able to use their app to scan your items and pay without having to stop anywhere (other than the line to get out.)
Publix' pricing is obscene though.
I have a Sam's Club membership primarily because it is much closer to me than Costco. I hate the crowds but it baffles me there are lines when the scan & go app exists! And I swear last time I went they weren't even scanning receipts, but you walked through some sort of gateway?
Costco actually has a better checkout experience than most places IMO. They always have basically all lanes open, and the employees are efficient at moving people through.
I love Wegmans for most groceries but their checkouts seem to be getting worse.
How are people supposed to act while waiting in line to check out?
That's the takeaway - that people are supposed to be bored in line? I wasn't insulting the people, I was describing what to me is the awful human experience of shopping at Costco.
I was just struck by this line:
> there were hordes of people standing lifelessly in a huge line waiting to check themselves out
Where are the retail experiences where people waiting to checkout are expressing an abundance of joy in life to you? Is the problem the “horde”? Sure, popular places tend to have a lot of people. I’m not sure why Costco customers act way less fun to you than at other places? This whole comments reads like a petulant “everyone is a NPC but me” screed
so silly, right??! and of all the checkouts Costco is bussin! I am always with my daughter, we open a package of 85 croisants and eat like 5 while also opening 60lbs bag of walnuts and munch together while taking bets whether we picked the right line based on complex algorithms of who is working at checkout, who is in line and how much stuff they bought and another billions parameters :)
I deliberately take my time in self-checkout lines. If they are going to cheap out by not having cashiers, I'm not going to hustle to make their lines move faster.
I've been to Costco (UK) a couple of times. It mostly seems to be: 4x the quantity for 4x the price (i.e. same price as any other store). I don't get it? I honestly think a large majority of people think it being in bulk MUST equal a saving?
Is it just for like catering companies or families of 20 where the bigger size is kind of helpful?
They do some nice discounts on Macs online though (can't say I'm a fan of their customer service either though based on my experience returning a Macbook)
> They do some nice discounts on Macs online though (can't say I'm a fan of their customer service either though based on my experience returning a Macbook)
That is one area where I think they're starting to crack down, here, thanks to abuse. My ex- returned a glass-topped sit stand desk after 5 years, when she finished her degree, for a full refund. "Anything wrong with it?" "No." "Any reason you're returning it?" "Just don't like it now." "Okay, here you go".
And her mom, who would buy a Keurig, drink all the sample pods it came with (24-30 or so), and then return it to get a new one (and new sample pods), which blew my mind, what a pain in the ass, for that, not to mention...
I didn't abuse anything fwiw.
I just returned it within a a few days, exercising my legal rights when purchasing an item over the internet. I wasn't that impressed with the device for the money having had the opportunity to demo it
The UK has almost nowhere that would accept a return for a refund after 5 years after having rented it for free.
You can barely exercise your legal rights when something breaks at year 5 of 6 (because of the burden of proof is on you that it was a manufacturing defect)
Oh, I apologize if you read that as me implying you were abusing their return policy.
I don't know about Costco UK, but there are many staple items where the 4-pack of whatever costs about 1.5 times the single pack at my local mainstream grocery store. There's also a lot of items where the local mainstream grocery store tends to have something in that category on a loss leader sale below the costco price, so if you're brand insensitive or have room to stock up when your brand is on sale, you'll do better at the mainstream grocery; since you're also shopping at costco, probably at least one of those is true. And yeah, if you have particular tastes in certain categories, chances are you need to go somewhere else.
You can do better with corn in bulk at a grain elevator. Takes about 8 bushels (56 pounds, 25.4 kg) to provide the calorie requirements for an adult for a year. Current price for corn in USA is $5/bushel plus transport. So $40/person/year (modulo transport, cooking, dying of pellagra, etc.).
Look at Richie Rich paying $200 plus prorated membership for his subsidence calories (in white rice, no less, which is a premium starch in some Asian countries)…
Where I live (Puerto Rico) Costco is basically the only decent midrange to upper midrange store. There are a couple higher end butcher shops, but local groceries are "smart and final" or other discount-US grocery equivalent, with prices at mainstream NYC levels, while Costco is basically the same prices as most of the US, and ~70% of the selection of Bay Area Costco. Easy choice (along with Amazon and other online shopping).
As a European, I think I mostly liked Costco when I visited. But what I'll always remember is that pizza slice you can get when you leave. The amount of fat and especially salt made me feel like I'm about to have a stroke. I can totally understand how some Americans are unhealthy/obese. It was overall a great experience - 10/10 would do again.
I can't imagine you could buy a pie of that shit to take home.
There's nothing appealing about costco to me anymore. Living is suburban DC... The parking lots are packed and dangerous, there's too many people in the store, the produce quality isn't there, and it takes forever to checkout. It doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore, and I'm the perfect candidate for someone that could benefit from going there once in a while.
My favorite Costco story is when it opened up in my town, we joined. We were there one day and bumped into some very good friends of the family there (since passed sadly).
They were talking about how they were admiring all the services offered to members, and said they considered buying a cruise vacation package, but then immediately realized “we’d just be on the ship with people from Costco”
Costco is America's most important "third space". For many people including myself, it's a consistent weekly outing with friends, roommates, girlfriends, wife, the kids. I've even taken tourists there.
Notice how almost no one goes to Costco alone, and contrast it with the supermarket, where most people now go alone.
Costco is a theme park. So is Ikea.
Costco encapsulates the American Dream; offering quality, value, and fair dealing to upwardly mobile strivers from all backgrounds.
What's the best deal at Costco? The aluminum foil I got for 4x the price that lasted me 20x as long seems up there.
CostCo has dropped off a bit in the UK. They've oversold the memberships (which were being abused anyway) and now the stores are always crowded, often it seems with people who don't know what a shop is or who can't push a trolley in a straight line.
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The nearest costco to me is an hour and half away. I've been in costco only once, and I guess I got it, but I also was like: do i need this? This year they're opening one nearby (~10mins). I have this nagging growing feeling of fear I will be joining.
Don't fear it. Join us. There's a real reduction in your cognitive load, honestly. It's nice.
The real hooking factor is when you go and recognize items you are already buying in other stores in smaller quantities for more money. Then you start branching out further still.
Wow, reading some of these comments. I think I love my Costco.
If I'm grabbing an item or two and they haven't been moved I can be in and out in under 10 minutes.
Lethbridge AB, some of these other ones sound like an adventure.
i find it saddening to read things like this, it could have been written in the 20s, the 50s. there are no bulwarks, the world is more bland every day, and each time another rationalization on the way down. yet again another author fishing for sympathy for caving in. tongue in cheek of course. don't take it too seriously y'all, we're just keeping it real, nudge nudge. i want of this train. Dear snobs, all is forgiven, please come back.
"the solo adult men with AirPods in (also sold at Costco), listening to God knows what podcast: Are they thinking about a dead relative’s favorite Costco items, too?"
-- this is me. I am seen.
The main reason i don't shop at costco is the lack of serendipity. i won't set foot in a walmart for the same reason. My expectations for any random human encounter there are net negative.
Has anyone else noticed the lack of free soda cups after they switched back to Coca-Cola products?
Back in the Pepsi days there were always free cups around from people that didn't like Pepsi. Now - nada.
I want to live like Costco people too, but my house isn't big enough. Fortunately, one family member shops there, and splits the stuff between two households.
Costco culture is the haze of infinite feeds, sequels, casinos with no right turns, the feeling that there is no new art, and the death of the novel.
Stay repeat indulge enjoy
This could possibly be the most cringe piece of coastal elite content I've ever read.
Aesthetically-minded hipster writes a think piece on reluctantly aging out of high school fears of being "uncool," finally grows up and has a family, but 15 years too late.
Discovers the concept of economies of scale and also that families in the center of the country who spend their weekends at Costco instead of marching at pride events might not be nazis after all...and actually it's kind of convenient to go to a big warehouse full of curated bulk items and buy shit when you have kids.
I imagine its exactly the type of thing boomer hippies (the hipsters of their generation) wrote about in the 80s/90s after they realized dropping acid in nudist drum circles gets old after a while and that communes don't actually work. Just rewrite the title to "I want to live like Kmart people," and voila, you've got a New Yorker thinkpiece from 1986.
I've never been to Costco but there is a Sam's Club here. People talk about Costco hot dogs but Sam's Club hot dogs are pretty awesome.
It must be an issue with the European implementation, but I have a Costco not very far from home, and yet I never stepped inside.
Because simply asking to see what it sells requires me to subscribe upfront.
It's not like I cannot buy without a membership card; that is perfectly understandable. But I cannot even see what's sold inside, which prevents me from knowing if I actually want to become a member. They do have a "catalogue" of sorts... showing the prices of about 30 products or so. That's all. And the website describing the general aisles, with a few pictures.
So, they want me to subscribe to something before I can even see what they have to offer? What the heck is with that?
On the other hand, you can just walk straight to the food court and buy pizza, soda, and cookies, without being a member.
Is this how things work in the US as well? If so, how is that justified?
Yes it works that way in the US. You could go in with a friend with a membership or simply be reincarnated as a child of Costco members.
"I will never purchase Costco clothing"
Much of my wardrobe is from CostCo, effective suburban camouflage as well as being fine as clothes.
+1
I can't think of another clothing retailer that has garments right there in front of you that you can touch and hold up to your body, the experience is far superior to just looking at photos.
You can do this at Target, Wal-Mart, The Gap (incl. Banana Republic, Old Navy), any department store (Macy's, Bloomingdales, Saks), Paul Stuart, Brooks Brothers. I'm struggling to think of anywhere you cannot do this. Did you drop some qualifier that would restrict "clothing retailer" to a smaller category?
huh? Have you never bought clothing in person before? Is Costco really your only exposure to buying clothes in a physical space? Is "big shop full of clothes" an American thing no one has ever pointed out to me?
Ah, the terrible agony of realizing the hoi polloi aren't entirely wrong about everything after all.
With dynamic pricing and other consumer predatory schemes out there, Costco feels like the only one that fights for the consumer. The checkout is lightyears faster than any local supermarket, return policies are good, and I don't feel like the warehouse is trying to waste my time. The low price of good quality meat alone is worth the price of admission. If you cook, you come out doubly saving money.
"Something about the whole thing always registered to me as, like, lame—too normcore, too boring, perhaps even too cheugy to an informed and taste-driven millennial ur-consumer like me." -> What even is this? Get over yourself.
Remember that the CEO of Costco wears his name tag to work, and eats the Costco hotdog like everyone else. I'd buy that for a dollar!
when you consider the setup and infrastructure going to and fro the mega warehouse of dry and perishable goods, also considering the required equipment, (a sedan, or large car) - It begins to become apparent the genesis of costco largely rises out of Americas car culture and suburbia.
Alternatively elsewhere, small shops, many locally owned, butchers, vendors convenience stores replace the existence of 'costco'
In these facts, I dont know if its necessarily a bad thing, but there is something empty, soulless and anti social about it.
Maybe a few grape tomatoes for thought between the world salad of this article, "cognitive pattern. It is a jarring thoughtscape, remarkably compelling and nondiscursive and utterly hard to shake." - That is what the author too is getting at?
> You shift into Costco mode somewhere at the ten-minute driving mark. They’re always in far-off places, and so the last ten or twenty minutes of the drive feel like a rush
Or you just order from Costco as one more store on Instacart or similar, and don't make it part of your identity.
I have memories of a Costco similar to the author's, but I have no desire to ever go to a store again if I can help it.
This article seemed mildly interesting to perhaps kill 5 minutes. I clicked through only to be slapped by a cookie consent and a newsletter signup pop up, together they entirely obscure the content on mobile. Too much friction, so I decided to just close it, this saved me from wasting 5 minutes of my life reading, which I instead proceeded to use cleaning a toilet. All in all, a good outcome I would say.
this article is pretentious garbage and makes me glad i no longer live in the pacific northwest
First thing I did upon opening this comment thread was ctrl-F for "pretentious"
Only an American could come up with an article like this, psychologizing about a supermarket.
Guys. Its a supermarket with a monthly fee. Based on your monthly expenses it might or might not be worthwhile to shop there. That's about all the philosophizing there is about it.
I find the quality of Costco food is lacking, especially things like Chips, which are usually quite stale. The overall experience is also off-putting, compared to a place like Whole Foods, that generally get me excited about cooking.
Author missing out on good wine deals for no apparent reason.
This whole comment section reads of Costco astroturf haha
sorry but good god what an asshole this writer sounds like. a majority of people go to costco because it’s drastically simplifies the grocery shopping experience and saves money. easier to buy for 3 weeks at a time vs once a week, reduces decision paralysis on basic goods from fake variety at the grocery store, and again for a cheaper price than most places around
reducing the experience to “settling into the drudgery of middle age” scream more of a reflection of OP than any costco normal shopper
This is kind of a weird take on Costco, but I also somewhat resonate with it. I've always seen Costco as somehow the perfect aspirational ideal of the American middle class. Personally, I love Costco, and my love for it has grown as I've become more affluent, because I can actually attain that aspirational lifestyle. On any given day in my local Costco, I'm probably the highest earning person in the store, but that doesn't matter because I want the exact same Kirkland Signature toilet paper as the next guy. As someone who often obsesses over trying to acquire the best things so that they last longer (BIFL), Costco tickles my internal register of "good enough". I don't think I've ever regretted a purchase at Costco other than occasionally upsetting my wife for getting something that wasn't on the list.
>The kinds of brands I like to buy aren’t what they sell at Costco
If what food you buy is "brands", it's shit to begin with. Just that some of it is more expensive shit.
If you want to be uppity about it, buy mostly local, fresh produce and meats, not packaged brands, as much as you can.
Did anyone else read this in Anthony Bordain voice?
I don't get it, Costco is objectively great
I need that 82oz jar of Adam's at my costco
I want to do whatever Costco people do.
I resisted joining Costco for many years, because it seemed too culty, or just too popular in general (with my assumption being that most popular things are bad). Eventually they sucked me in though, and yes, it really is good.
The article had Don DeLillo vibes.
> And this is where we wait together, regardless of our age, our carts stocked with brightly colored goods. A slowly moving line, satisfying, giving us time to glance at the tabloids in the racks. Everything we need that is not food or love is here in the tabloid racks. The tales of the supernatural and the extraterrestrial. The miracle vitamins, the cures for cancer, the remedies for obesity. The cults of the famous and the dead.
I will brave the downvotes and say: I don’t like Costco.
It’s not out of snobbishness, their quality is excellent at excellent prices.
My problem is that I find I spend more at Costco than at conventional grocery stores like Trader Joe’s.
The paradox is, it’s cheaper, but I spend more. I buy things I wouldn’t normally buy, and ant higher quantities. Even worse, I somehow eat it all quite quickly.
I spend more and eat more when I shop at Costco.
Unfortunately that’s neither healthy for my wallet nor for my waistline.
I love Costco, but I get it. My wife and I always joke about how we can't leave without spending at least $100, and how that's only like 7 items sometimes.
We didn’t have Costco in our area when I was a kid, but iirc that’s why my parents stopped going to Sam’s Club: any money they saved on buying cheaper bulk things went into buying random extras.
WELCOME TO COSTCO I LOVE YOU
I'm going to law school there next semester.
It honestly disturbs me how true so many of the predictions from the Idiocracy have been.
When I lived in the US, I was a Trader Joe’s person. They had lots of interesting and gourmet-ish items at pretty reasonable prices. Not a lot in the way of fresh produce though, so needed to go to a supermarket for that.
Their staff felt a bit cultish, but they were always pretty friendly and helpful so from a customer perspective it was nice.
I tried Costco once and everything was too big. By the time we got to the end of anything we were absolutely sick of it.
normcore?
If I’m being honest I find a lot of this kind of stuff pretentiously performative. It’s a wholesale market with a membership fee. The food is nutritious and cheap and there are economies of scale to be had.
There are no Costco people. There are no Whole Foods people. There are no Gus’s people. In San Francisco, I live a block from Whole Foods, a block from Safeway and a block past that is Gus’s. Costco is six blocks away. We go to all of these places at various times. My gym is near Gus’s. Whole Foods has the biggest selection. Safeway has Envy apples. Costco is where we get the base load of stuff when we do weekly shopping.
As commentary on consumerism has filtered down from philosophy to the masses it really has become incredibly middle-brow. Copy-paste opinions about shopping substitute for any intellectual examination of food availability. Like LLM text the language is sound but the ideas are incredibly shallow shadows of the ultimate concept.
It really brings home the idea that if you can’t appreciate living in an era of abundance where fruit of high quality is available throughout the year and it has been bred to high perfection and eggs, milk, and rice are practically costless compared to the past, that perhaps there is nothing that can bring you joy. All the “this is late stage capitalism where you consume consume consume without thought and reason” takes have the shape of meaning but carry nothing. They’re some kind of cargo cult mimicry of some concept.
We have solved food. Costco is the solved form. $2.99/lb of chicken.
> There are no Costco people. There are no Whole Foods people. There are no Gus’s people.
I think where you shop and what kind of products you buy says a lot about you. For example - I have two friend groups that sometimes meet up for drinks. One group drinks craft beer, fancy wine, etc. The other drinks relatively inexpensive beers and chu-hi. The experience in the two groups is completely different - everything from the conversation topics, manners, ideals, hobbies, how much people drink and for how long, etc. In both groups I have seen someone mention that they shop at a certain store, and elicit surprise from the other group members.
> In San Francisco, I live a block from Whole Foods, a block from Safeway and a block past that is Gus’s. Costco is six blocks away. We go to all of these places at various times. My gym is near Gus’s. Whole Foods has the biggest selection. Safeway has Envy apples. Costco is where we get the base load of stuff when we do weekly shopping.
I actually think this says quite a bit more about you than you may think. I can probably guess which way you vote, for instance, and where you stand on a range of social issues. I can probably guess how much income you earn, and whether you have a college degree. I may be wrong - we're dealing with probabilities after all - but demographics are real.
Stopped reading at "cheugy". Born near Seattle and now lives in Portland - like two of the biggest non-conformist regions out there..
shopping at Costco reminds me of reading news in a bad way, Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect way. And it's bit of a shame because there's this already implicit trust that have formed over the years, but it just seems really hard to keep enshittification at bay. For Costco to continue they really need to up their game and make consumer their absolute fan by first stop destroying their gut health. Junk food's fine, but chicken mince honestly don't need all that additives.
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