I've been saying for a while that given a proper harness, small local models can perform incredibly well. When you have a system that can try everything, it will eventually get it right as long as you can prevent it from getting it wrong in the meantime.
Lol, I love that framing. Yeah, the small models have impressed me a lot during this work. The reasoning can be quite good, and definitely sufficient for a lot of cases. Just gotta nudge em back on track Every now and then and they'll figure it out.
Essentially, yes that's right! There's some subtlety in how to let it know it was wrong (returning things as tool errors because it trained on that), but that's the gist of it - sort of a self-correcting architecture.
That is the whole challenge, actually! A new metric I'm going to dogfood into forge is ETTWS - estimated time to working solution.
A simple retry loop around your whole workflow could, in some cases, be all you need. But it could mean many blind attempts to get through a workflow successfully. And hopefully there isn't a payment step partway through!
The fewer hard errors nix the whole workflow, the lower your ETTWS.
This is a thousand unusually smart monkeys who speak every major human language fluently and are proficient in every major programming language, but sometimes still make bizarre mistakes and need to be put back on track.
Had a couple thoughts in this realm, and am working them into my own harness. Curious to see what others think. I'm not sure if this is generalizable, as my harness is fairly specialized:
- Breaking down a problem into a planned execution, with executing agent providing the initial plan which includes explicit objectives such as which tools it calls and what it would consider to be a successful execution.
- The harness then executes the plan in order
- Each step that involves a tool call will be executed by breaking down the tool call into component parts: the harness interrogates the agent for a valid parameter value for the current tool argument. The tool definition contains validators for each argument. If the validator fails, the harness rewinds the conversation and injects the failure reason into the next try.
- Once the agent produces a valid response for the argument, the harness proceeds to the next argument.
- Once all the arguments have been filled, the harness calls the tool. It passes the agent's initial expected value along with the actual value, along with any errors that may have been produced and asks the agent if it is satisfied with the result. If it isn't, the agent provides a reason and the harness then retries the tool call process from the beginning rewinding the conversation and inserting the reasoning for the retry.
- The agent may request to re-plan if it discovers a flaw in its initial plan. The harness will also attempt to re-plan if the agent produces too many failures in a row.
This proves to be quite effective at reducing tool call failures. One benefit is that the sub-agent gets a perfect conversation history where it makes no mistakes. I'm not sure if it's actually better at completing tasks though, I haven't tried to benchmark it.
I went through a similar (in philosophy) exercise with my small-model agentic coding harness - built on forge.
A few things I noticed related to your points:
- on conversation rewind, I implemented a similar tool call collapse on the main agent (the one you chat with). Once it was done with a task, the tool call history was collapsed to keep the context clean - it was more about hygiene than size.
- the harness interrogating the model bit is a bit different, I haven't tried that approach. Forge relies on model self-correction in a bid to avoid having bespoke error modes, but I guess if you can abstract and automate the interrogation based on schema or something that could work!
Overall I like the clean conversation history aspect, but I suspect that you might be doing a lot of round trips for tools with many args, versus "letting it fail and giving it one nudge". That being said, it's an interesting idea for harder scenarios/tasks!
The tool-call ambiguity point — yeah, I hit that at frontier scale too. Running Claude Code, Codex, and Gemini CLI in parallel for daily dev, the most common failure mode I see is grep/find returning exit code 1 (no matches): the model reads it as "the tool failed" instead of "search ran, here's the negative space," then either bails or retries with slightly different syntax instead of broadening the search.
The retry-nudge layer maps almost 1:1 to what I do manually multiple times an hour: "no, that wasn't a tool failure, the file just doesn't contain that pattern, try X." Encoding it at the framework level is the right shape.
Have you looked at whether these guardrails close the smaller frontier-model gap on long-horizon tasks? My intuition is the 87→99 delta on Sonnet won't quite hold past ~50 steps, where context drift starts dominating more than retry semantics.
That's where frontier pulls ahead for sure, at least on the big frontier models - though I haven't formalized those findings because...time.
Necessary disclaimer, forge isn't concerned, technically, with model quality, just execution of tool calls. Now for the actual answer...
What I found to be the limiting factor with small models in the 14B range was "effective attention". Beyond a certain point, still well within their training context window size, I start to see degradation. I don't have hard numbers for it, but that's where an Opus and the like can just keep going for ages. I did come up with a tool call message history collapse that I might dogfood into forge one day (effectively clean up the message history intelligently so the model doesn't lose track as easily).
That being said, my coding eval suite for my agentic coding harness does have some refactor tasks and feature additions (everything is done on an actual sandboxed repo) and the small models can knock out those tasks even while pushing the 50-60 tool call mark. But I wouldn't trust them to do more than 1 of those in the same session.
The "effective attention" framing nails what I keep noticing too. Sonnet's official context is huge in principle, but in a real coding session where the agent is reading 30+ files, running grep, processing test output, emitting diffs — somewhere around 60-80k effective tokens I can feel it start to "skim" earlier context rather than reason over it. The thing it forgot isn't out of window; it's just not weighted highly enough anymore.
The tool-call history collapse is a problem I'd pay real money to have solved cleanly. My crude manual version: keep the function calls but drop or summarize the responses for anything older than ~15 turns. Most of the "what was I doing" signal lives in the calls, not the outputs. Letting the model itself mark "I'm done with that thread, compress the responses" feels like the right abstraction, but I haven't seen anyone ship it well yet.
A per-model "compaction aggressiveness" knob in Forge could be interesting — the small-model effective-attention cliff might respond to earlier/heavier trimming.
>The tool-call history collapse is a problem I'd pay real money to have solved cleanly.
It's general attention collapse and it happens everywhere once you start noticing it.
The simplest example, which even frontier models fail at, is something of the form `A and not B', which they keep insisting means `A and B' after the text gets pushed far enough back in the context.
The only solution, I think, that is even theoretically capable of fixing this is using a different form of attention. One which innately understands tree-like structures and binds tree nodes close together regardless of overall distance from the end of the stream.
Incidentally this is what I'm also working on at $job.
Forge does have tiered compaction, and it's configurable! Defaults are currently probably a bit on the high side for catching effective attention, but that might be a part of the code that interests you the most.
src/forge/context/ - specifically TieredCompact in strategies.py. That's the furthest I took it. The tool-call collapse in particular has been useful in agentic coding, but I haven't formalized/generalized it yet. I think within forge it'll be a callable tool that will rely on the model knowing when to trigger it (as you said - "I'm done with the task, can collapse"). That's the part I need to abstract out of my bespoke implementation.
At the moment TieredCompact is naive. It uses context thresholds the consumer determines and fires when those thresholds are hit. It just does different things at different threshold levels.
Your idea of using task shape to dynamically set those thresholds (or even move to model-triggered) I think is the key but is a trickier implementation. That's what I haven't gotten around to yet.
Definitely on my todo list but happy to check out a PR if you have something in mind.
Honestly probably not a PR from me right now — I'm in the middle of shipping something else — but the design idea I keep returning to is splitting the trigger into two signals:
1. Runtime-computed "context pressure" — tokens-since-last-compaction, depth of tool-call nesting, response/call ratio in recent turns. The runtime computes this; the model never sees it.
2. Model-emitted "natural breakpoint" — a tool call the model fires when it perceives it's done with a thread (file closed, task complete, branch abandoned).
Compaction fires on the AND of both. Keeps the model from compacting mid-reasoning-chain, and keeps the runtime from waiting until 90% context for the model to notice on its own.
The "model triggers it" pattern is exactly the right shape, but there's a subtle failure mode in it: models are notoriously bad at perceiving their own context pressure. Asking "are you done with that thread?" lands well; asking "would compacting now help you?" doesn't, because the model lacks a reliable internal signal for "I'm starting to skim." You almost have to tie the compaction trigger to task-shape signals (file closed, test passed, agent reports a milestone hit) rather than self-assessment.
Going to actually go read TieredCompact tonight — curious whether you've ended up tying triggers to task signals or kept them on model self-report.
The general tone (it just feels like it's an LLM) but also check the account history. It's a 2018 account that had never commented until today's flood of suspicious comments.
Tangentially related: Since you are at Texas Instruments, I wonder if you could find out what the status is of the intellectual property for the TI Explorer lisp machines. I know who owns the IP for Genera, but wasn’t able to find out about TI’s lisp OS
Very cool work ! I'm running harness system myself and could measure improvement of token use of 2x to 10x on gsm8k only by running a math harness - i'm confident the future is bright for people who will know how to sell tech that is appropriately scaled to one's need. We absolutely do not need to run Claude 123 for most tasks and we better prepare for the rag-pull !
Something very similar I was experimenting with on, but had different results that you may be interested in, some of my findings were interesting
This was part of testing out how well a tool of mine worked (github.com/jsuppe/loom), which aims to be used to extracts requirements, specs, creates tests. At first I had no intention of using it for code generation but then tried it out with some early success. I tried splitting the work by using the tool with different frontier models, and then providing work to a local ollama instance running one of several models. Not all local models had the same outcome, not all coding languages had the same outcome. I also found in this experiment, when nailing down the coding tasks I wanted to set up positive and negative scenarios- which is where I found setting guardrails can sometimes backfire with inversion- this essentially elaborates on previous work by Khan 2025 (https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.22251); the most interesting finding to me was that if you give guardrails with a rationale, it reduces compliance and may cause the inversion
For coding tasks I found that the improvement was not only ability to use a lower cost model for these broken down tasks, but wall clock time was improved over using frontier model alone, with equivalent outcomes.
I've had a few reversions as well along the way, including in upcoming v0.7.0 patch. Some models benefitted, others regressed - overall better on harder scenarios or I wouldn't be releasing, but yeah - not intuitive.
The biggest challenge has been balancing the desire to hyper optimize for my favorite models, versus average behavior, versus consumer needs.
Interestingly enough we have found the same net result -- structural guardrails are the unlock for smaller models. Our approach in particular layers three things: a parse rescue for malformed/incorrect tool calls (similar to your retry nudges), content-level intervention (diff size rejection, checkpoint forcing) and state machine enforcement on top (per-phase tool restriction, transition guards). On 13B models we saw completion of a selection of SWE-bench tasks went from ~20% to 100%. With frontier models we saw a reduction in API calls from reduced thrashing.
One of the most surprising findings was when a 9B model self-corrected through 4 tool parse failures within the guard rails. It tried to use a complex tool (patch_file), kept failing and eventually downshifted to a simpler tool (edit_line) that it could actually execute. The guardrails didn't make the model smarter, it just narrowed the execution space until it could find something that worked.
Nice! I'm not surprised at your findings (anymore). Mechanical reliability is the key to small models, and it's a big unlock. I've seen the same thing you just described. And the agnostic nudges forge sends at inspired by exactly that. Just show the model how it failed, gracefully, and it'll likely figure a way out of it itself.
Forge doesn't have a SWE-specific eval, but I've built a custom coding harness (not public yet but maybe soon) built on forge and saw the same behavior you seem to have seen in agentic coding.
Thank you! It was a really fun rabbit hole to fall into and I found a bunch of counterintuitive stuff.
I'm in the same boat, tuning models wasn't super interesting, though I might do a focused spike on behavior -focused fine tuning. But the harness matters almost more than the model in many cases.
> One thing I really didn't expect: the serving backend matters. Same Mistral-Nemo 12B weights produce 7% accuracy on llama-server with native function calling and 83% on Llamafile in prompt mode.
I thought Llamafile was just a model and llama.cpp bundled in to a single binary - is this the difference between Llamafile injecting a default sysmtem prompt vs hitting the raw llama-server endpoint with no harness?
That seems like comparing apples to apple pie, there's some ingredients missing.
I was surprised as well. I did go with an extreme (but true) example in the post. In this case, native function-calling template likely is in play.
However, that doesn't explain the Lamaserver prompt vs llamafile at ~ +4pts, or vs Ollama (at ~ +30ish pts) that sits almost perfectly between llamaserver native and llamafile.
The backend affects almost all model families, and was just something I've never seen really talked about.
I genuinely don't, sadly. I'm a mathematician originally, evolved organically into ML then AI - but I never really was a SWE.
I feel like there's some backend decoding or chat template thing going on at a much lower level than what I'm best at. Maybe it's injecting headers or something that eventually compounds to model confusion? I really have no idea.
I really hope folks better than me at backend stuff take a look and dive into it though because it's definitely under-reported and super consistent across model families and backends ranging from ollama, lama.cpp native, prompt, llamafile, and even vLLM that I didn't formally benchmark in the repo.
Maybe I am reading it wrong but I don't think this does what it claim it does or at least how it sounds.
Basically this is a tool auto-complete that has a workflow element to it with certain steps that need to happen in certain order. In other words the order is defined in advance. Am I correct?
Basically execute step 1 first, then step 2 and finally step 3 and this is the schema for each step. That is effectively the guardrail and there is retry logic.
If it is the case, this is obviously useful but in a very specific set of problems where the solution is kind of known in advance. A workflow automation might work but this is kind of N8N where each step is LLM step.
Anyway, I might me wrong but I wanted to share a few thoughts.
Partially correct, but an important distinction to call out.
You don't have to define the workflow steps. You can just expose the set of tools to the model and let the LLM call whatever it wants in any order, and every guardrail except the prerequisite step enforcement is still there to help.
If your workflow does have step enforcement, that can also be conditional. For example like Claude code does read required before edit. You can define a conditional enforcement where the agent must have called read before edit, and even force the same file path. That doesn't mean the model has to call edit at all...
But maybe I could have been clearer in the docs on the workflow pieces.
Why this entire tool chain instead of building within something like pi code?
I've been exploring this area and a project like https://github.com/itayinbarr/little-coder (not my work) lets me mix and match with my current setup or any plugins built for pi.
Mainly because I have plenty of use cases and not all of them need or want pi. Forge isn't an orchestration framework and is not coding specific, it lives one level lower - if I understand pi correctly.
The proxy mode should integrate seamlessly, and the middleware guardrail mode could be lifted into pi.
As for little coder, I love it! I wanted forge to be more generic than just agentic coding as there's many more agentic workflows worth optimizing with small models.
Funny timing. I’ve been building something adjacent, though from a different angle: not primarily local-model reliability, but a control layer around agent execution, tools, routing, and operator intent. I was calling these "synthetic models", but decided yesterday "LLM middleware" is a clearer description.
The common thread I see is treating the harness around the model as first-class infrastructure. Forge seems focused on tool-call correctness and recovery; Wardwright is more about controlling what the agent is supposed to do, where work gets routed, and how the operator stays in the loop.
Curious whether you see those as complementary layers. I’m planning to try Forge and would be interested in seeing whether they fit together cleanly.
I've just read through your readme and I have zero clue what this does. Something about proxying model calls and applying "policies" to them? But what kind of things does it actually do, what benefits are there? That should be at the top of the readme.
I'm sorry to hear that! I'll take a fresh look at docs in my upcoming release.
In a nutshell, it applies guardrails around LLM calls to make them more reliable - specifically small models but works on all: "on multi-step agentic workflows through guardrails (rescue parsing, retry nudges, step enforcement) and context management (VRAM-aware budgets, tiered compaction).".
It'll try to parse malformed tool calls, it'll automatically compact if needed, it'll enforce any workflow requirements you define (ie, read before edit) - and it does so with domain-agnostic guardrails. It catches and feeds errors back to the model in a structured way so the model self-corrects (hopefully).
Each guardrail can be removed as desired by a consumer. It can be used as a building block library (WorkflowRunner approach), it can be integrated into existing source (middleware), or it can be a drop-in addition to an exiting workflow (proxy mode).
I think that comment was aimed at my Wardwright link, not Forge, given mention of policies and proxying model calls! I think your docs are in much better shape ;-)
Name was just a portmanteau of Calcifer's forge, because Howl’s moving castle seemed like a good metaphor for what I was trying to do… I had synthetic models as apiece there but I realized a) it was out of place and b) it was my favorite feature there
What are "guardrails" in this context? Is it correctly understood that this would sit between my pi agent and llama-server, and it would do what exactly?
It would help ensure that the model executes its tool call correctly. So if you give Pi a task like booking travel... Pi decides to book a flight, hotel, car. It gets the flight in one go, but then sends "here is the payload : [json blob]" to hotel booking API and the whole thing throws an error and the workflow dies, with partial completion. Forge would catch the error and nudge the model by injecting a message into the conversation history, with a helpful error message "You replied with text, you must call a tool", the model reads it, and submits a tool call.
Big frontier models need this less than small models.
I haven't specifically tested this with Hermes, but I would expect so. Hermes is orchestrating things - it decides it needs to...whatever you want, book a trip for you. Forge will help make sure that the API calls to hotel booking sites parse correctly or gracefully retry.
Without forge, I'd guess a small model used for Hermes would have to retry entire workflows when an uncaught exception triggerd when it tried to reply with text when "calling a tool" ("Here is the tool call: [json blob]"). The issue there becomes partial successes can lead to state changes that need to be addressed (it booked the flight already, home it doesn't double-book).
Forge won't help with model reasoning quality though. If it the model thinks the right thing to do is to book 3 buses for your trip, forge doesn't care, it'll just make sure those api calls land.
Thank you! I completely agree - especially for always-on systems like agents crawling databases or doing audits and the like. The sheer volume of calls will be enormous and being able to run it on simple hardware with a small model that fits instantly changes the economics of it.
Plus it's cool to see a little 8B model writing code :)
have you considered implementing the addition of a leading canary sentinel that fires at the earliest/cheapest possible point instead of only on lag of some actual load-bearing constraint violation?
Do you mean catching errors as tokens stream back versus waiting for the full message? If so, then no I hadn't looked into that. This was mostly geared towards local models so token cost isn't really a big deal, though latency might be.
And if you didn't mean that then please elaborate :)
In a nutshell, yes. It tries to anyways, but at the end of the day, some models get stuck and you hit a max iterations error that forge will raise, with some context, and the consumer can choose what it wants to do at that point.
I'd like to think so! ;). It has some brains, but the key insight was to send the model domain-agnostic nudges. I don't need to know what you're trying to do, the LLM already knows, I just need to nudge it back on the structural side: text response vs tool call, arg mismatch, etc. and let its knowledge of the context fill in the blanks (otherwise I'd need a massive library of every possible failure mode).
The other insight was doing it at tool call level and not workflow level, which addresses the compounding math problem more directly.
Maybe similar to Instructor [1] which was a cool tool for json and structured output enforcement combining pydandic with ai retry loops very handy for when models don't have that covered
In proxy mode, here's what forge applies on each request (handler.py builds these):
Response validation: ResponseValidator(tool_names) checks each tool call against the declared tools array. If the model emits a call to a name not in tools[], or a malformed call shape, it's caught before the response goes back.
Rescue parsing: When the model emits tool calls in the wrong format — JSON in a code fence, [TOOL_CALLS]name{args} (Mistral), <tool_call>...</tool_call> (Qwen XML) — rescue parsers extract the structured call and re-emit it in the canonical OpenAI tool_calls schema. This is the biggest practical lift, especially on Mistral-family models that ignore native FC and emit their own bracket syntax.
Retry loop with error tracking: ErrorTracker(max_retries=N) — if validation fails, forge retries inference up to N times with a corrective tool-result message on the canonical channel, rather than returning a malformed response to your caller. From your perspective the proxy looks like a single request that just took a few extra ms.
What proxy mode does NOT do (because it's single-shot, not multi-turn): prerequisite/step enforcement (those need a workflow definition spanning turns), context compaction, session memory. For that surface you wrap the WorkflowRunner class in Python — proxy mode trades that depth for "use forge with your existing setup, no Python rewrite."
So yes — the proxy is fortifying the response shape and retry behavior of /v1/chat/completions. The full agentic guardrails are at the Python class level above it.
For greenfield projects, I've been building on forge native using WorkflowRunner so I get all guardrails. But obviously as a drop-in replacement in existing systems then proxy is the way to go.
the funniest thing I see in opencode with tool calling is the model calls 10.0 and opencode says it's an error because the spec is an integer, even though it's obvious to anyone that if a float can be coerced properly to a integer, then that should be a success.
Yeah it's a delicate balance between precise and silly, and too permissive.
I'm definitely still iterating on forge, but so far sending the model a friendly and gracefully handled error message works wonders (instead of barfing a stack trace or something).
This seems pretty awesome; being able to use an 8B model for tool calling would be perfect.
Interested in using this for Home Assistant using a Mac Mini as my server. Does it run on MacOS?
How is the latency when using the proxy? I’m using Claude Haiku 4.5 for my voice assistant right now and it’s pretty fast, but if I could keep the LLM local, it’d be even better.
I have an open GitHub issue for macOS hardware detection. I don't have a Mac myself to do dev on but happy to accept a fork! I did assign a buddy to that issue but she's been slacking - call her out :p.
Latency is dependent on the guardrails firing, effectively. If nothing fires, it's a passthrough, for all intents and purposes, very little overhead. But if a retry nudge fires then that's another LLM call.
As a consumer for a home assistant, a retry nudge firing is something I'd catch, and have my voice model output a pre-baked "one sec, trying again" sort of filler message or something.
I only just skimmed it, but will try to dive deeper in a bit.
I think we share a lot on tool definitions/schemas. Forge will let a consumer define a tool, set of tools, pydantic schema for each, etc. outlines seems to be similar with their task definition.
I think where we differ is what happens when that doesn't work...and the model still doesn't get the contract right. Something like a pydantic-valid string path for glob, that points to a non-existent thing. Glob will error, forge catches, and nudges the model. Forge does very little model output manipulation (just a basic regex parse to try to find json/XML), the core of it is in the retry mechanisms.
Once I dig into it more I'll try to highlight other deltas.
Yes it does! I haven't published those evals yet, but I'm actually running 24-35B class models on a custom coding harness built on forge (even 120B class recently).
I just need more GPU wall clock time to get more evals done. ETA is...a few weeks? Got distracted by the coding harness.
But the results are the same. Reforged models do better than bare, even at those sizes. As for published results, I ran forge on Anthropic models and reforged doe better than bare for them as well :)
>But the results are the same. Reforged models do better than bare, even at those sizes
>I haven't published those evals yet
Don't forget to post the complete settings for those evals, please, because local LLMs' failure modes are often caused by incorrect setups (bad quants, bad chat templates, non-recommended temperatures, ridiculously small context, not enabling "preserve thinking" etc.). In my setup I've never seen Qwen3.6-27b get truly stuck so far. What it usually gets wrong are poor architectural decisions or forgetting to update something.
Good call! The latest forge version has per-model-parameter configs sourced from official sources (can be overridden), that's what I'll use for evals and each eval set will be paired with a commit hash. But I'll make sure to call out the location of the params and maybe highlight some for the popular models.
For the paper - more academic in nature - I wanted to isolate the model performance variable from guardrail lift. The delta is what mattered more than final score. For the paper, everyone got temp=0.7 - that was intentional.
As for Qwen3.6, it's really solid. It'll do really well on forge I can call that now. When I pushed it into agentic coding specifically and the eval suite I use there (separate from forge), even it needed help on long-running tasks - but it's definitely a top model right now.
However, entirely possible there are better settings than the "official recommendations" I found - which would be a neat finding in itself.
Exactly what I was thinking - even on frontier or near-frontier models I still see my agents get stuck in these pointless loops where it's very obvious to me what they need to do to get "unstuck".
Yeah, it's a useful framework even with frontier. And it definitely lifts "cheap" frontier models like Haiku into more solid territory. I haven't done a ton of forge integrations into frontier (like pointing claude code into proxy mode) yet, but if you run into any issues let me know!
And we're off! It's working great with DeepSeek V4, although DeepSeek V4 Pro tends not to really run into problems anyway being near-frontier, but I definitely see improvement with Flash.
Hey I'm really impressed and hoping to connect. I followed you on X just now, is that a decent place to shoot you a DM? I don't want anything from you, we just seem to be working on similar things (I'm working on our internal agent harness here, at a healthcare startup).
Neat! Historically I've been most active on LinkedIn but the AI community seems very X-leaning so I'll make sure to pay closer attention there. Good luck with the harness, happy to connect!
Hello. Interesting project! Haven't gone through it yet, but want to consider using this in my CS master's capstone. While you have benchmarks I may create my own specific scenarios and comparisons vis-a-vis hosted inference to highlight specific economic benefit. Any suggestions?
Very cool! I would look at the tokens returned by each of the calls. You can map those to API costs per input/output tokens. Forge should be capturing those (or can, as passthrough from llama.cpp).
At least, if I understand your economic benefit angle correctly.
For scenarios to get inspired by I'd look at those tagged "model_quality" or "advanced_reasoning".
I would expect so! I'm currently running Gemma 4 E4B evals and it's behaving the same. Better with guardrails. There might be a floor where any error nudge confuses the model more than helps, but I haven't found it across many 8B families and now Gemma 4 E4B.
This is a neat project, but the description made me realize that I don't actually know what the term "guardrails" means.
... which lead me to realize that it's one of those terms with multiple meanings - like "agent" or even "AI" itself - but where people who use it may not be aware of how many different definitions are floating around.
In this project it refers to validating tool calls - fixing invalid tool responses, making sure certain required tool calls have been made, maintaining an error budget after which the task is abandoned with an error.
Other projects might use "guardrails" to mean protecting against unsafe content (Llama Gaurd), refusing off-topic queries (NVIDIA NeMo Guardrails "topical rails", filtering PII, detecting jailbreaks, or human-in-the-loop checks of specific actions.
I've even seen people talk about running a coding agent in a sandbox (Docker, Firecracker etc) as a form of guardrail.
That's a fair point, and frankly something that might not age well in my docs one day. I genuinely don't know what the industry will standardize on when it comes to the use of the term "guardrails". I've seen the sec definitions as well.
You're 100% right about how I meant it and what it means within Forge though, but it's something that might lead to doc changes as things evolve.
I'm thinking of it like a guardrail that keeps your car from driving off the edge of a road, but in this case, it keeps your tool calls from driving off a cliff.
I'd be curious about the eval methodology. In production coding tasks, the gap between benchmark scores and actual workflow integration can be significant. What does the error recovery loop look like?
Absolutely, benchmarks are a different breed. Forge's eval is deliberately scoped as a stress test of the recovery loop, not a measure of end-to-end agentic quality.
Scenarios range from basic 2-step workflows, to more complex ones with dead ends, breadcrumbs, misleading names.
Concrete example:
Task: get, analyze and report on Q3 sales data.
Model emits: analyze_sales(quarter="Q3"). This skipped the fetch step. Forge's response validator catches it before the tool function runs. Instead of letting the bad call hit the real impl (which would error or hallucinate), forge replies on the canonical tool-result channel.
We send this to the model:
tool_result: [PrereqError] analyze_sales requires fetch_sales_data
to be called first. Available next steps: fetch_sales_data
Model emits a corrected fetch_sales_data(...) on the next turn.
Three enforcement paths use this same channel: prerequisite violations, premature terminal calls, unknown-tool retries.
We also have rescue parsing for known templates (Jason OpenAI style, XML like granite, etc) where we try to parse tool calls that might be malformed.
And lastly bare text response nudges. Small models love to chat, we need them to call tools!
Best guess is it's native mode. The function calling template is just broken for Nemo.
I did go with an extreme example in the post (but true). Other deltas are smaller but still statistically significant. 30 pt swing between llamserver prompt vs ollama, 4-5pt swing between llamafile and llamaserver prompt.
Hi! Yes, I definitely think so. I've seen variance across all model families I looked at. The magnitude changes, but the presence of variance is a constant.
The https://swival.dev harness already has retry nudges, step enforcement, error recovery, context awareness, etc. to try to support small models as much as possible.
Curious to see how it compares with forge, and if both could be combined.
I'd assume they could be combined. A coding harness would own the agentic workflow by nature, forge guardrails would help tool calling.
I haven't given it a thorough read yet but I think their guardrails might be more focused on the workflow level. They are doing error capture at tool level with warnings to the model, but I'd need to dig deeper. On the surface definitely the same design philosophy! Maybe Forge makes error nudges more of a first-class citizen?
Our compaction strategies might be the most similar of all the pieces. Cool find!
I guess it's that, and yes, much as they learned speech patterns from us, now we start to learn from them.
I play with local models a lot but also have limited time and the conciseness, polish and human indication in presentation has become a major quality indicator. I've wasted too much time with slop projects or people's LLM-induced delusions and now take a pretty strict line on what I'm willing to spend my time on. Even if this ends up with some false positives, there's just so much happening these days it doesn't really matter...
Thank you for mentioning it. Too bad you got downvoted to hell as usual when anybody dares to do it.
The original post and every comment by OP is so full of retarded AI crap ("the biggest surprise!", "one thing I didn't expect!", "the biggest challenge!", etc. etc.") that is absolutely painful to read. I still can't believe most people (especially here on HN, I thought we were a bit better than this) can't notice all this crap.
What's much worse, it's that all these people posting this useless slop are so horribly dishonest ("I definitely use LLMs to help write things - but this is my draft!") that it makes me nauseous... This is the worst time to be an internet user if you have more than 2 points of IQ.
AI usage is great. The problem is the asymmetry in effort between generating text automatically, and then further amplifying this via posting it, while then expecting human eyeballs to spend the time reading it. It is antisocial.
If you're generating AI text you shouldn't expect humans that you aren't paying to bother reading it, purely out of politeness. Brian Cantrill has a great piece on this: https://rfd.shared.oxide.computer/rfd/0576
I've been saying for a while that given a proper harness, small local models can perform incredibly well. When you have a system that can try everything, it will eventually get it right as long as you can prevent it from getting it wrong in the meantime.
Lol, I love that framing. Yeah, the small models have impressed me a lot during this work. The reasoning can be quite good, and definitely sufficient for a lot of cases. Just gotta nudge em back on track Every now and then and they'll figure it out.
If I understood correctly, the model will get it right because it knows when it isn't right.
Essentially, yes that's right! There's some subtlety in how to let it know it was wrong (returning things as tool errors because it trained on that), but that's the gist of it - sort of a self-correcting architecture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology
I was expecting this https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-missile-knows-where-it-is
A thousand monkeys on a thousand typewriters…
That is the whole challenge, actually! A new metric I'm going to dogfood into forge is ETTWS - estimated time to working solution.
A simple retry loop around your whole workflow could, in some cases, be all you need. But it could mean many blind attempts to get through a workflow successfully. And hopefully there isn't a payment step partway through!
The fewer hard errors nix the whole workflow, the lower your ETTWS.
This is a thousand unusually smart monkeys who speak every major human language fluently and are proficient in every major programming language, but sometimes still make bizarre mistakes and need to be put back on track.
This is fun for you?
Had a couple thoughts in this realm, and am working them into my own harness. Curious to see what others think. I'm not sure if this is generalizable, as my harness is fairly specialized:
- Breaking down a problem into a planned execution, with executing agent providing the initial plan which includes explicit objectives such as which tools it calls and what it would consider to be a successful execution.
- The harness then executes the plan in order
- Each step that involves a tool call will be executed by breaking down the tool call into component parts: the harness interrogates the agent for a valid parameter value for the current tool argument. The tool definition contains validators for each argument. If the validator fails, the harness rewinds the conversation and injects the failure reason into the next try.
- Once the agent produces a valid response for the argument, the harness proceeds to the next argument.
- Once all the arguments have been filled, the harness calls the tool. It passes the agent's initial expected value along with the actual value, along with any errors that may have been produced and asks the agent if it is satisfied with the result. If it isn't, the agent provides a reason and the harness then retries the tool call process from the beginning rewinding the conversation and inserting the reasoning for the retry.
- The agent may request to re-plan if it discovers a flaw in its initial plan. The harness will also attempt to re-plan if the agent produces too many failures in a row.
This proves to be quite effective at reducing tool call failures. One benefit is that the sub-agent gets a perfect conversation history where it makes no mistakes. I'm not sure if it's actually better at completing tasks though, I haven't tried to benchmark it.
I went through a similar (in philosophy) exercise with my small-model agentic coding harness - built on forge.
A few things I noticed related to your points: - on conversation rewind, I implemented a similar tool call collapse on the main agent (the one you chat with). Once it was done with a task, the tool call history was collapsed to keep the context clean - it was more about hygiene than size.
- the harness interrogating the model bit is a bit different, I haven't tried that approach. Forge relies on model self-correction in a bid to avoid having bespoke error modes, but I guess if you can abstract and automate the interrogation based on schema or something that could work!
Overall I like the clean conversation history aspect, but I suspect that you might be doing a lot of round trips for tools with many args, versus "letting it fail and giving it one nudge". That being said, it's an interesting idea for harder scenarios/tasks!
I've been writing my own, out of curiosity, with gemma4. I've been surprised how far I'm getting.
Very cool! Hopefully you'll share it someday!
The tool-call ambiguity point — yeah, I hit that at frontier scale too. Running Claude Code, Codex, and Gemini CLI in parallel for daily dev, the most common failure mode I see is grep/find returning exit code 1 (no matches): the model reads it as "the tool failed" instead of "search ran, here's the negative space," then either bails or retries with slightly different syntax instead of broadening the search.
The retry-nudge layer maps almost 1:1 to what I do manually multiple times an hour: "no, that wasn't a tool failure, the file just doesn't contain that pattern, try X." Encoding it at the framework level is the right shape.
Have you looked at whether these guardrails close the smaller frontier-model gap on long-horizon tasks? My intuition is the 87→99 delta on Sonnet won't quite hold past ~50 steps, where context drift starts dominating more than retry semantics.
That's where frontier pulls ahead for sure, at least on the big frontier models - though I haven't formalized those findings because...time.
Necessary disclaimer, forge isn't concerned, technically, with model quality, just execution of tool calls. Now for the actual answer...
What I found to be the limiting factor with small models in the 14B range was "effective attention". Beyond a certain point, still well within their training context window size, I start to see degradation. I don't have hard numbers for it, but that's where an Opus and the like can just keep going for ages. I did come up with a tool call message history collapse that I might dogfood into forge one day (effectively clean up the message history intelligently so the model doesn't lose track as easily).
That being said, my coding eval suite for my agentic coding harness does have some refactor tasks and feature additions (everything is done on an actual sandboxed repo) and the small models can knock out those tasks even while pushing the 50-60 tool call mark. But I wouldn't trust them to do more than 1 of those in the same session.
The "effective attention" framing nails what I keep noticing too. Sonnet's official context is huge in principle, but in a real coding session where the agent is reading 30+ files, running grep, processing test output, emitting diffs — somewhere around 60-80k effective tokens I can feel it start to "skim" earlier context rather than reason over it. The thing it forgot isn't out of window; it's just not weighted highly enough anymore.
The tool-call history collapse is a problem I'd pay real money to have solved cleanly. My crude manual version: keep the function calls but drop or summarize the responses for anything older than ~15 turns. Most of the "what was I doing" signal lives in the calls, not the outputs. Letting the model itself mark "I'm done with that thread, compress the responses" feels like the right abstraction, but I haven't seen anyone ship it well yet.
A per-model "compaction aggressiveness" knob in Forge could be interesting — the small-model effective-attention cliff might respond to earlier/heavier trimming.
>The tool-call history collapse is a problem I'd pay real money to have solved cleanly.
It's general attention collapse and it happens everywhere once you start noticing it.
The simplest example, which even frontier models fail at, is something of the form `A and not B', which they keep insisting means `A and B' after the text gets pushed far enough back in the context.
The only solution, I think, that is even theoretically capable of fixing this is using a different form of attention. One which innately understands tree-like structures and binds tree nodes close together regardless of overall distance from the end of the stream.
Incidentally this is what I'm also working on at $job.
Forge does have tiered compaction, and it's configurable! Defaults are currently probably a bit on the high side for catching effective attention, but that might be a part of the code that interests you the most.
src/forge/context/ - specifically TieredCompact in strategies.py. That's the furthest I took it. The tool-call collapse in particular has been useful in agentic coding, but I haven't formalized/generalized it yet. I think within forge it'll be a callable tool that will rely on the model knowing when to trigger it (as you said - "I'm done with the task, can collapse"). That's the part I need to abstract out of my bespoke implementation.
At the moment TieredCompact is naive. It uses context thresholds the consumer determines and fires when those thresholds are hit. It just does different things at different threshold levels.
Your idea of using task shape to dynamically set those thresholds (or even move to model-triggered) I think is the key but is a trickier implementation. That's what I haven't gotten around to yet.
Definitely on my todo list but happy to check out a PR if you have something in mind.
Some additional info on my current public hack is also at: https://github.com/antoinezambelli/forge/blob/main/docs/USER...
Honestly probably not a PR from me right now — I'm in the middle of shipping something else — but the design idea I keep returning to is splitting the trigger into two signals:
1. Runtime-computed "context pressure" — tokens-since-last-compaction, depth of tool-call nesting, response/call ratio in recent turns. The runtime computes this; the model never sees it.
2. Model-emitted "natural breakpoint" — a tool call the model fires when it perceives it's done with a thread (file closed, task complete, branch abandoned).
Compaction fires on the AND of both. Keeps the model from compacting mid-reasoning-chain, and keeps the runtime from waiting until 90% context for the model to notice on its own.
The "model triggers it" pattern is exactly the right shape, but there's a subtle failure mode in it: models are notoriously bad at perceiving their own context pressure. Asking "are you done with that thread?" lands well; asking "would compacting now help you?" doesn't, because the model lacks a reliable internal signal for "I'm starting to skim." You almost have to tie the compaction trigger to task-shape signals (file closed, test passed, agent reports a milestone hit) rather than self-assessment.
Going to actually go read TieredCompact tonight — curious whether you've ended up tying triggers to task signals or kept them on model self-report.
That's a very insightful observation. How could you explain that using the analogy of a pancake breakfast?
I almost said "it's jarring to see a human speaking fluent claude" but then I realized you're just a spambot.
Generated comments are not allowed.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#generated https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47340079
Why do you think their comment is AI generated? I didn’t get that from it but I’m no expert.
The general tone (it just feels like it's an LLM) but also check the account history. It's a 2018 account that had never commented until today's flood of suspicious comments.
Maybe the m dash?
AI slop
Tangentially related: Since you are at Texas Instruments, I wonder if you could find out what the status is of the intellectual property for the TI Explorer lisp machines. I know who owns the IP for Genera, but wasn’t able to find out about TI’s lisp OS
Very tangential! I'll try but it might take me a while.
Who owns the IP for Genera?
Very cool work ! I'm running harness system myself and could measure improvement of token use of 2x to 10x on gsm8k only by running a math harness - i'm confident the future is bright for people who will know how to sell tech that is appropriately scaled to one's need. We absolutely do not need to run Claude 123 for most tasks and we better prepare for the rag-pull !
Something very similar I was experimenting with on, but had different results that you may be interested in, some of my findings were interesting
This was part of testing out how well a tool of mine worked (github.com/jsuppe/loom), which aims to be used to extracts requirements, specs, creates tests. At first I had no intention of using it for code generation but then tried it out with some early success. I tried splitting the work by using the tool with different frontier models, and then providing work to a local ollama instance running one of several models. Not all local models had the same outcome, not all coding languages had the same outcome. I also found in this experiment, when nailing down the coding tasks I wanted to set up positive and negative scenarios- which is where I found setting guardrails can sometimes backfire with inversion- this essentially elaborates on previous work by Khan 2025 (https://arxiv.org/abs/2510.22251); the most interesting finding to me was that if you give guardrails with a rationale, it reduces compliance and may cause the inversion
For coding tasks I found that the improvement was not only ability to use a lower cost model for these broken down tasks, but wall clock time was improved over using frontier model alone, with equivalent outcomes.
I've had a few reversions as well along the way, including in upcoming v0.7.0 patch. Some models benefitted, others regressed - overall better on harder scenarios or I wouldn't be releasing, but yeah - not intuitive.
The biggest challenge has been balancing the desire to hyper optimize for my favorite models, versus average behavior, versus consumer needs.
Interestingly enough we have found the same net result -- structural guardrails are the unlock for smaller models. Our approach in particular layers three things: a parse rescue for malformed/incorrect tool calls (similar to your retry nudges), content-level intervention (diff size rejection, checkpoint forcing) and state machine enforcement on top (per-phase tool restriction, transition guards). On 13B models we saw completion of a selection of SWE-bench tasks went from ~20% to 100%. With frontier models we saw a reduction in API calls from reduced thrashing.
One of the most surprising findings was when a 9B model self-corrected through 4 tool parse failures within the guard rails. It tried to use a complex tool (patch_file), kept failing and eventually downshifted to a simpler tool (edit_line) that it could actually execute. The guardrails didn't make the model smarter, it just narrowed the execution space until it could find something that worked.
Brief: https://statewright.ai/research
Nice! I'm not surprised at your findings (anymore). Mechanical reliability is the key to small models, and it's a big unlock. I've seen the same thing you just described. And the agnostic nudges forge sends at inspired by exactly that. Just show the model how it failed, gracefully, and it'll likely figure a way out of it itself.
Forge doesn't have a SWE-specific eval, but I've built a custom coding harness (not public yet but maybe soon) built on forge and saw the same behavior you seem to have seen in agentic coding.
Impressive work, love seeing tools that boost local LLM reliability without touching the model itself
Thank you! It was a really fun rabbit hole to fall into and I found a bunch of counterintuitive stuff.
I'm in the same boat, tuning models wasn't super interesting, though I might do a focused spike on behavior -focused fine tuning. But the harness matters almost more than the model in many cases.
> One thing I really didn't expect: the serving backend matters. Same Mistral-Nemo 12B weights produce 7% accuracy on llama-server with native function calling and 83% on Llamafile in prompt mode.
I thought Llamafile was just a model and llama.cpp bundled in to a single binary - is this the difference between Llamafile injecting a default sysmtem prompt vs hitting the raw llama-server endpoint with no harness?
That seems like comparing apples to apple pie, there's some ingredients missing.
I was surprised as well. I did go with an extreme (but true) example in the post. In this case, native function-calling template likely is in play.
However, that doesn't explain the Lamaserver prompt vs llamafile at ~ +4pts, or vs Ollama (at ~ +30ish pts) that sits almost perfectly between llamaserver native and llamafile.
The backend affects almost all model families, and was just something I've never seen really talked about.
Do you have any suspicion about what is different between the backends?
That's an absolutely bonkers statistic: it would mean spurious differences in hosting container overwhelm the performance differences between models.
I genuinely don't, sadly. I'm a mathematician originally, evolved organically into ML then AI - but I never really was a SWE.
I feel like there's some backend decoding or chat template thing going on at a much lower level than what I'm best at. Maybe it's injecting headers or something that eventually compounds to model confusion? I really have no idea.
I really hope folks better than me at backend stuff take a look and dive into it though because it's definitely under-reported and super consistent across model families and backends ranging from ollama, lama.cpp native, prompt, llamafile, and even vLLM that I didn't formally benchmark in the repo.
I wouldn't expect such difference
Maybe I am reading it wrong but I don't think this does what it claim it does or at least how it sounds.
Basically this is a tool auto-complete that has a workflow element to it with certain steps that need to happen in certain order. In other words the order is defined in advance. Am I correct?
Basically execute step 1 first, then step 2 and finally step 3 and this is the schema for each step. That is effectively the guardrail and there is retry logic.
If it is the case, this is obviously useful but in a very specific set of problems where the solution is kind of known in advance. A workflow automation might work but this is kind of N8N where each step is LLM step.
Anyway, I might me wrong but I wanted to share a few thoughts.
Partially correct, but an important distinction to call out.
You don't have to define the workflow steps. You can just expose the set of tools to the model and let the LLM call whatever it wants in any order, and every guardrail except the prerequisite step enforcement is still there to help.
If your workflow does have step enforcement, that can also be conditional. For example like Claude code does read required before edit. You can define a conditional enforcement where the agent must have called read before edit, and even force the same file path. That doesn't mean the model has to call edit at all...
But maybe I could have been clearer in the docs on the workflow pieces.
The docs should start with that with a very clean explanation how it works. Basically first paragraph. :)
Otherwise you should expect churn.
But also it should really go into some detail how is this different from tool calls with type enforcement on expected parameters.
That's good feedback, thank you! I have an update landing shortly so I'll make sure to clarify in the docs! I appreciate it!
Why this entire tool chain instead of building within something like pi code?
I've been exploring this area and a project like https://github.com/itayinbarr/little-coder (not my work) lets me mix and match with my current setup or any plugins built for pi.
Mainly because I have plenty of use cases and not all of them need or want pi. Forge isn't an orchestration framework and is not coding specific, it lives one level lower - if I understand pi correctly.
The proxy mode should integrate seamlessly, and the middleware guardrail mode could be lifted into pi.
As for little coder, I love it! I wanted forge to be more generic than just agentic coding as there's many more agentic workflows worth optimizing with small models.
Funny timing. I’ve been building something adjacent, though from a different angle: not primarily local-model reliability, but a control layer around agent execution, tools, routing, and operator intent. I was calling these "synthetic models", but decided yesterday "LLM middleware" is a clearer description.
Very early prototype, so I’m looking more for architectural/conceptual reactions than polish: https://wardwright.dev / https://github.com/bglusman/wardwright
The common thread I see is treating the harness around the model as first-class infrastructure. Forge seems focused on tool-call correctness and recovery; Wardwright is more about controlling what the agent is supposed to do, where work gets routed, and how the operator stays in the loop.
Curious whether you see those as complementary layers. I’m planning to try Forge and would be interested in seeing whether they fit together cleanly.
Conceptually I think definitely! Forge has no opinion on what the agent should be trying to do, that's the "middleware"'s job, so to speak.
Forge is just trying to make sure that when the model decides to do something, thee execution is reliable.
As for software integration, let me know if you run into any issues and I'll be happy to take a look or try to patch something!
Harnesses as first class infra all the way. I'll take a look at your work and see if I spot any obvious tensions.
I've just read through your readme and I have zero clue what this does. Something about proxying model calls and applying "policies" to them? But what kind of things does it actually do, what benefits are there? That should be at the top of the readme.
I'm sorry to hear that! I'll take a fresh look at docs in my upcoming release.
In a nutshell, it applies guardrails around LLM calls to make them more reliable - specifically small models but works on all: "on multi-step agentic workflows through guardrails (rescue parsing, retry nudges, step enforcement) and context management (VRAM-aware budgets, tiered compaction).".
It'll try to parse malformed tool calls, it'll automatically compact if needed, it'll enforce any workflow requirements you define (ie, read before edit) - and it does so with domain-agnostic guardrails. It catches and feeds errors back to the model in a structured way so the model self-corrects (hopefully).
Each guardrail can be removed as desired by a consumer. It can be used as a building block library (WorkflowRunner approach), it can be integrated into existing source (middleware), or it can be a drop-in addition to an exiting workflow (proxy mode).
I think that comment was aimed at my Wardwright link, not Forge, given mention of policies and proxying model calls! I think your docs are in much better shape ;-)
lol - my bad! but thanks!
Ironically, the project this idea emerged out of for me is also called Forge, actually Calciforge… https://calciforge.org / https://github.com/bglusman/calciforge
Name was just a portmanteau of Calcifer's forge, because Howl’s moving castle seemed like a good metaphor for what I was trying to do… I had synthetic models as apiece there but I realized a) it was out of place and b) it was my favorite feature there
What are "guardrails" in this context? Is it correctly understood that this would sit between my pi agent and llama-server, and it would do what exactly?
It would help ensure that the model executes its tool call correctly. So if you give Pi a task like booking travel... Pi decides to book a flight, hotel, car. It gets the flight in one go, but then sends "here is the payload : [json blob]" to hotel booking API and the whole thing throws an error and the workflow dies, with partial completion. Forge would catch the error and nudge the model by injecting a message into the conversation history, with a helpful error message "You replied with text, you must call a tool", the model reads it, and submits a tool call.
Big frontier models need this less than small models.
Would putting this between a small model and an agent like Hermes improve performance?
I haven't specifically tested this with Hermes, but I would expect so. Hermes is orchestrating things - it decides it needs to...whatever you want, book a trip for you. Forge will help make sure that the API calls to hotel booking sites parse correctly or gracefully retry.
Without forge, I'd guess a small model used for Hermes would have to retry entire workflows when an uncaught exception triggerd when it tried to reply with text when "calling a tool" ("Here is the tool call: [json blob]"). The issue there becomes partial successes can lead to state changes that need to be addressed (it booked the flight already, home it doesn't double-book).
Forge won't help with model reasoning quality though. If it the model thinks the right thing to do is to book 3 buses for your trip, forge doesn't care, it'll just make sure those api calls land.
guardrails this well-designed matter way more than just throwing bigger models at agent tasks tbh
Thank you! I completely agree - especially for always-on systems like agents crawling databases or doing audits and the like. The sheer volume of calls will be enormous and being able to run it on simple hardware with a small model that fits instantly changes the economics of it.
Plus it's cool to see a little 8B model writing code :)
have you considered implementing the addition of a leading canary sentinel that fires at the earliest/cheapest possible point instead of only on lag of some actual load-bearing constraint violation?
Do you mean catching errors as tokens stream back versus waiting for the full message? If so, then no I hadn't looked into that. This was mostly geared towards local models so token cost isn't really a big deal, though latency might be.
And if you didn't mean that then please elaborate :)
So, this basically ensures that models call the right tools with the correct format?
In a nutshell, yes. It tries to anyways, but at the end of the day, some models get stuck and you hit a max iterations error that forge will raise, with some context, and the consumer can choose what it wants to do at that point.
Ah, so it a "smart" retry mechanism?
I'd like to think so! ;). It has some brains, but the key insight was to send the model domain-agnostic nudges. I don't need to know what you're trying to do, the LLM already knows, I just need to nudge it back on the structural side: text response vs tool call, arg mismatch, etc. and let its knowledge of the context fill in the blanks (otherwise I'd need a massive library of every possible failure mode).
The other insight was doing it at tool call level and not workflow level, which addresses the compounding math problem more directly.
Maybe similar to Instructor [1] which was a cool tool for json and structured output enforcement combining pydandic with ai retry loops very handy for when models don't have that covered
[1] https://github.com/567-labs/instructor
Interesting! I'll look into that. Would mean another dep/integration but might be more robust.
> # External mode — you manage llama-server, forge proxies it
> python -m forge.proxy --backend-url http://localhost:8080 --port 8081
This is a good example because I've currently stuck with llama.cpp's UI. I can read your code (or throw Gemma at it =p ) but thought I'd ask anyway.
In this example, what is it exactly that your proxy is fortifying? The HTTP SSE requests? (Those would be `/chat/completions`.)
Yes that's correct !
/v1/chat/completions is the entry point.
In proxy mode, here's what forge applies on each request (handler.py builds these):
Response validation: ResponseValidator(tool_names) checks each tool call against the declared tools array. If the model emits a call to a name not in tools[], or a malformed call shape, it's caught before the response goes back.
Rescue parsing: When the model emits tool calls in the wrong format — JSON in a code fence, [TOOL_CALLS]name{args} (Mistral), <tool_call>...</tool_call> (Qwen XML) — rescue parsers extract the structured call and re-emit it in the canonical OpenAI tool_calls schema. This is the biggest practical lift, especially on Mistral-family models that ignore native FC and emit their own bracket syntax.
Retry loop with error tracking: ErrorTracker(max_retries=N) — if validation fails, forge retries inference up to N times with a corrective tool-result message on the canonical channel, rather than returning a malformed response to your caller. From your perspective the proxy looks like a single request that just took a few extra ms.
What proxy mode does NOT do (because it's single-shot, not multi-turn): prerequisite/step enforcement (those need a workflow definition spanning turns), context compaction, session memory. For that surface you wrap the WorkflowRunner class in Python — proxy mode trades that depth for "use forge with your existing setup, no Python rewrite."
So yes — the proxy is fortifying the response shape and retry behavior of /v1/chat/completions. The full agentic guardrails are at the Python class level above it.
For greenfield projects, I've been building on forge native using WorkflowRunner so I get all guardrails. But obviously as a drop-in replacement in existing systems then proxy is the way to go.
the funniest thing I see in opencode with tool calling is the model calls 10.0 and opencode says it's an error because the spec is an integer, even though it's obvious to anyone that if a float can be coerced properly to a integer, then that should be a success.
Yeah it's a delicate balance between precise and silly, and too permissive.
I'm definitely still iterating on forge, but so far sending the model a friendly and gracefully handled error message works wonders (instead of barfing a stack trace or something).
This seems pretty awesome; being able to use an 8B model for tool calling would be perfect.
Interested in using this for Home Assistant using a Mac Mini as my server. Does it run on MacOS?
How is the latency when using the proxy? I’m using Claude Haiku 4.5 for my voice assistant right now and it’s pretty fast, but if I could keep the LLM local, it’d be even better.
I have an open GitHub issue for macOS hardware detection. I don't have a Mac myself to do dev on but happy to accept a fork! I did assign a buddy to that issue but she's been slacking - call her out :p.
Latency is dependent on the guardrails firing, effectively. If nothing fires, it's a passthrough, for all intents and purposes, very little overhead. But if a retry nudge fires then that's another LLM call.
As a consumer for a home assistant, a retry nudge firing is something I'd catch, and have my voice model output a pre-baked "one sec, trying again" sort of filler message or something.
The dashboard github link appears to be broken
Yeah I'm sorry about that - I thought that link would work. Here is the fixed one (dashboard inside): https://github.com/antoinezambelli/forge/tree/main/docs/resu...
How does this differ from dottxt's Outlines[0] on the technical level? Are you using some JSON grammar to force the LM head distribution to follow it?
[0]: https://github.com/dottxt-ai/outlines
I only just skimmed it, but will try to dive deeper in a bit.
I think we share a lot on tool definitions/schemas. Forge will let a consumer define a tool, set of tools, pydantic schema for each, etc. outlines seems to be similar with their task definition.
I think where we differ is what happens when that doesn't work...and the model still doesn't get the contract right. Something like a pydantic-valid string path for glob, that points to a non-existent thing. Glob will error, forge catches, and nudges the model. Forge does very little model output manipulation (just a basic regex parse to try to find json/XML), the core of it is in the retry mechanisms.
Once I dig into it more I'll try to highlight other deltas.
Curious if this would help larger local models? Qwen 3.6 varieties of deepseek4?
Yes it does! I haven't published those evals yet, but I'm actually running 24-35B class models on a custom coding harness built on forge (even 120B class recently).
I just need more GPU wall clock time to get more evals done. ETA is...a few weeks? Got distracted by the coding harness.
But the results are the same. Reforged models do better than bare, even at those sizes. As for published results, I ran forge on Anthropic models and reforged doe better than bare for them as well :)
>But the results are the same. Reforged models do better than bare, even at those sizes
>I haven't published those evals yet
Don't forget to post the complete settings for those evals, please, because local LLMs' failure modes are often caused by incorrect setups (bad quants, bad chat templates, non-recommended temperatures, ridiculously small context, not enabling "preserve thinking" etc.). In my setup I've never seen Qwen3.6-27b get truly stuck so far. What it usually gets wrong are poor architectural decisions or forgetting to update something.
Good call! The latest forge version has per-model-parameter configs sourced from official sources (can be overridden), that's what I'll use for evals and each eval set will be paired with a commit hash. But I'll make sure to call out the location of the params and maybe highlight some for the popular models.
For the paper - more academic in nature - I wanted to isolate the model performance variable from guardrail lift. The delta is what mattered more than final score. For the paper, everyone got temp=0.7 - that was intentional.
As for Qwen3.6, it's really solid. It'll do really well on forge I can call that now. When I pushed it into agentic coding specifically and the eval suite I use there (separate from forge), even it needed help on long-running tasks - but it's definitely a top model right now.
However, entirely possible there are better settings than the "official recommendations" I found - which would be a neat finding in itself.
If it's worth it to you, you could try running it on Deepseek v4 flash which is very cheap right now...
Exactly what I was thinking - even on frontier or near-frontier models I still see my agents get stuck in these pointless loops where it's very obvious to me what they need to do to get "unstuck".
Yeah, it's a useful framework even with frontier. And it definitely lifts "cheap" frontier models like Haiku into more solid territory. I haven't done a ton of forge integrations into frontier (like pointing claude code into proxy mode) yet, but if you run into any issues let me know!
And we're off! It's working great with DeepSeek V4, although DeepSeek V4 Pro tends not to really run into problems anyway being near-frontier, but I definitely see improvement with Flash.
That was fast! It's great to hear it's working well :)
I'm attempting to make a replica of your Anthropic method that will do the same for DeepSeek. I'll let you know how it goes.
For our local Qwen, your setup works great out of the box!
Hey I'm really impressed and hoping to connect. I followed you on X just now, is that a decent place to shoot you a DM? I don't want anything from you, we just seem to be working on similar things (I'm working on our internal agent harness here, at a healthcare startup).
Neat! Historically I've been most active on LinkedIn but the AI community seems very X-leaning so I'll make sure to pay closer attention there. Good luck with the harness, happy to connect!
Happy to answer questions about the eval methodology, the backend findings, or anything in the repo. I'll be around.
super interesting work. It will take me a few days to dig in and really understand it. But I'm looking forward to it.
I run small models at home, so I'm very curious.
That's awesome! Let me know if quick start is causing issues or anything else you'd like to dig into.
Out of curiosity, what models are you running?
dashboard link is dead
Does this work? https://github.com/antoinezambelli/forge/tree/main/docs/resu...
yes, that link works for me.
Hello. Interesting project! Haven't gone through it yet, but want to consider using this in my CS master's capstone. While you have benchmarks I may create my own specific scenarios and comparisons vis-a-vis hosted inference to highlight specific economic benefit. Any suggestions?
Very cool! I would look at the tokens returned by each of the calls. You can map those to API costs per input/output tokens. Forge should be capturing those (or can, as passthrough from llama.cpp).
At least, if I understand your economic benefit angle correctly.
For scenarios to get inspired by I'd look at those tagged "model_quality" or "advanced_reasoning".
Do you think a similar approach would work with smaller models, like 1.5B models?
I would expect so! I'm currently running Gemma 4 E4B evals and it's behaving the same. Better with guardrails. There might be a floor where any error nudge confuses the model more than helps, but I haven't found it across many 8B families and now Gemma 4 E4B.
I've been working on the same thing and even nearly called it forge. Instead I called it hammer.
I'll be keen to look through the code on this!
Oh no! I have code-hammer coming out soon :D. Everyone is building stuff these days :p.
Always happy to see folks looking into small local models!
This is a neat project, but the description made me realize that I don't actually know what the term "guardrails" means.
... which lead me to realize that it's one of those terms with multiple meanings - like "agent" or even "AI" itself - but where people who use it may not be aware of how many different definitions are floating around.
In this project it refers to validating tool calls - fixing invalid tool responses, making sure certain required tool calls have been made, maintaining an error budget after which the task is abandoned with an error.
Other projects might use "guardrails" to mean protecting against unsafe content (Llama Gaurd), refusing off-topic queries (NVIDIA NeMo Guardrails "topical rails", filtering PII, detecting jailbreaks, or human-in-the-loop checks of specific actions.
I've even seen people talk about running a coding agent in a sandbox (Docker, Firecracker etc) as a form of guardrail.
That's a fair point, and frankly something that might not age well in my docs one day. I genuinely don't know what the industry will standardize on when it comes to the use of the term "guardrails". I've seen the sec definitions as well.
You're 100% right about how I meant it and what it means within Forge though, but it's something that might lead to doc changes as things evolve.
I'm thinking of it like a guardrail that keeps your car from driving off the edge of a road, but in this case, it keeps your tool calls from driving off a cliff.
I'd be curious about the eval methodology. In production coding tasks, the gap between benchmark scores and actual workflow integration can be significant. What does the error recovery loop look like?
Absolutely, benchmarks are a different breed. Forge's eval is deliberately scoped as a stress test of the recovery loop, not a measure of end-to-end agentic quality.
Scenarios range from basic 2-step workflows, to more complex ones with dead ends, breadcrumbs, misleading names.
Concrete example: Task: get, analyze and report on Q3 sales data.
Model emits: analyze_sales(quarter="Q3"). This skipped the fetch step. Forge's response validator catches it before the tool function runs. Instead of letting the bad call hit the real impl (which would error or hallucinate), forge replies on the canonical tool-result channel.
We send this to the model: tool_result: [PrereqError] analyze_sales requires fetch_sales_data to be called first. Available next steps: fetch_sales_data
Model emits a corrected fetch_sales_data(...) on the next turn.
Three enforcement paths use this same channel: prerequisite violations, premature terminal calls, unknown-tool retries.
We also have rescue parsing for known templates (Jason OpenAI style, XML like granite, etc) where we try to parse tool calls that might be malformed.
And lastly bare text response nudges. Small models love to chat, we need them to call tools!
That's a huge gap for llama.cpp server - any idea why?
Best guess is it's native mode. The function calling template is just broken for Nemo.
I did go with an extreme example in the post (but true). Other deltas are smaller but still statistically significant. 30 pt swing between llamserver prompt vs ollama, 4-5pt swing between llamafile and llamaserver prompt.
Hi Antoine!
Interesting point about backend variance. Do you think serving layer should become part of standard LLM eval reporting?
Hi! Yes, I definitely think so. I've seen variance across all model families I looked at. The magnitude changes, but the presence of variance is a constant.
Interesting!
The https://swival.dev harness already has retry nudges, step enforcement, error recovery, context awareness, etc. to try to support small models as much as possible.
Curious to see how it compares with forge, and if both could be combined.
Oh interesting - I hadn't come across that!
I'd assume they could be combined. A coding harness would own the agentic workflow by nature, forge guardrails would help tool calling.
I haven't given it a thorough read yet but I think their guardrails might be more focused on the workflow level. They are doing error capture at tool level with warnings to the model, but I'd need to dig deeper. On the surface definitely the same design philosophy! Maybe Forge makes error nudges more of a first-class citizen?
Our compaction strategies might be the most similar of all the pieces. Cool find!
no different from how the mcdonalds system can turn any random person on the street to a smiling cog in the machine.
I get a strong LLM smell in your description. If you couldn't bother to write it, why should I bother to read it?
I definitely use LLMs to help write things - but this is my draft!
Maybe I've been spending too much time reading the evals and I now sound like an LLM...
Either way, here I am - happy to answer any questions!
I guess it's that, and yes, much as they learned speech patterns from us, now we start to learn from them.
I play with local models a lot but also have limited time and the conciseness, polish and human indication in presentation has become a major quality indicator. I've wasted too much time with slop projects or people's LLM-induced delusions and now take a pretty strict line on what I'm willing to spend my time on. Even if this ends up with some false positives, there's just so much happening these days it doesn't really matter...
Best of luck with Forge!
Thank you for mentioning it. Too bad you got downvoted to hell as usual when anybody dares to do it.
The original post and every comment by OP is so full of retarded AI crap ("the biggest surprise!", "one thing I didn't expect!", "the biggest challenge!", etc. etc.") that is absolutely painful to read. I still can't believe most people (especially here on HN, I thought we were a bit better than this) can't notice all this crap.
What's much worse, it's that all these people posting this useless slop are so horribly dishonest ("I definitely use LLMs to help write things - but this is my draft!") that it makes me nauseous... This is the worst time to be an internet user if you have more than 2 points of IQ.
If you are so outright against using AI, why would he care if you read his article about AI?
AI usage is great. The problem is the asymmetry in effort between generating text automatically, and then further amplifying this via posting it, while then expecting human eyeballs to spend the time reading it. It is antisocial.
If you're generating AI text you shouldn't expect humans that you aren't paying to bother reading it, purely out of politeness. Brian Cantrill has a great piece on this: https://rfd.shared.oxide.computer/rfd/0576