Libdragon has been improved massively in the past year or so, there are now simple demo games that show capabilities far beyond the original N64 games (bump mapping textures, HDR, seamless loading of massive overworld maps, etc.) Really talented core team, fun to give them a follow.
That[1] was James Lambert, who was also responsible for Portal 64[2] and is now developing a completely new N64 game. His Youtube channel is worth a follow.
I’ve been building quite an ambitious flash cart menu system for the N64 recently, and it’s been an absolute joy! Would really recommend anyone with a curious, hacker mindset that grew up with these consoles to explore this platform - it’s fascinating!
Here’s what I’m working on - it contains a comprehensive retail game metadata library & cheats database, can screenshot running games and execute frame-perfect tool-assisted speedruns: https://youtu.be/UyqtU0hgGRA?si=_YisdNOrQrSpdpNT
What flash cart does your system run on? And do you have any docs about how to get it up and running? I'd love to get TAS stuff running on my N64, has been a dream for a while
I'm tinkering with a PlayStation homebrew (voxel space renderer) and development for fifth generation consoles has never been easier.
Modern toolchains, programming languages, dev cartridges and libraries from the community makes all the difference. Outside of some niceties like ICE (gotta write that GDB stub for target hardware at some point), it's not that different from what you'd experience with modern embedded work.
I am still amazed my own minimalist PS1 tutorial series [1] became as popular as it did, given that prior to it basically all learning material on the internet was written around the decent-for-the-time-but-horrible-now Sony SDK and often based on 30-year-old example code full of 30-year-old C practices (in particular the complete disregard for aliasing and concurrency, which resulted in plenty of headaches once people started using those ancient libraries and example code with modern GCC). We even have bleeding-edge C++ SDK options [2] complete with an STL and coroutine support, so if anybody here wants to try their hand at PS1 homebrew development I would highly encourage checking out the modern tooling we have now.
To put this into perspective for youngsters, that horrible Sony SDK was considered a wonder for its time, and what kickstarted the movement away from Assembly into C for home console development, as main language.
Until then, only arcades had already made the switch.
On PS2, PS2Linux, Dreamcast there was already C++ support, by the way.
I’ve started to adapt my historic accounting of gaming away from hardware centric (console generations) and toward languages and compilers, and the force-multiplication they provided to developers which is tangibly evident in the products. Though these do correlate strongly with orders of magnitude of RAM being made available.
- Physical logic gate era of gaming.
- Assembly era
- C era
- OOP era
- Interpreted languages and game logic living in scripts on top of c++ engines
FWIW, interpreted languages living on top of a native code engine has been a pretty common theme throughout. It goes back to early PC days (when PC meant IBM, Apple II, etc), where it was common that engine would be written in ASM, but it would implement a VM with all of the game business logic would exist to ease porting to very differnt systems. Almost all the early LucasArts games were written this way (hence ScummVM), Another World, the Sierra Games, etc.
They decide what gets played legally. They decide what gets advertised - legally. They control your children's eyeballs since birth. Your children won't be told how to pirate Mario 64 or that it even exists. They control all the game reviews too.
Also the era exists whether or not you play the games from the era.
There is something so charming about the N64/PS1 era. They were so unique in their own right and you could tell at a passing glance which system was displaying on the screen even if you didn't know what game it was. Two radically different systems at the dawning of 3D console games.
I bought a MiSTer for me and my son and we played the heck out of Mario Kart 64 and Mario Golf. I think he picked up my "gaming is dead now" outlook since he doesn't really have any interest in new systems or games anymore
One gets the impression that gaming is dead when one's only contact with modern gaming consists of reading headlines about a handful of AAA games.
In reality, the gaming landscape has never been better, as game production has expanded in several directions:
- The barrier to entry into game development has been lowered; People who are talented in design but not programming now have the opportunity to create games
- AAA budgets have increased; those who enjoy large-scale productions will find increasingly large games
- There is still a market for old-school games, so plenty of (especially smaller) companies produce retromodern games
Heck, they even still produce commercial Commodore 64 games o_O
Of course, there is less room for radical innovation, but people do not play only radically innovative games. And regardless, innovation still exists today, especially in smaller-scale productions.
All we see out of mainstream AAA gaming is abused devs, private equity scalping, and mindless remaster regurgitation. Basically going through the same problems as Hollywood is with major films. You get a massive banger of a production every few years, and the rest is just endless money burning and developer harm.
Meanwhile the good indie devs are a dice roll on if they are gonna get recognized by the world at large and find success, just like small budget films.
My game library gets older by the day and I prefer it that way, but love it when an indie game bubbles to the surface and gets beloved by enough fans to break into the news cycle. Itch.io is the only place I look for games anymore unless something I need for the collection hits GoG finally.
This is a very rose tinted take.
AAA game development was far more brutal in the 90s.
Go look up the development of Sonic Xtreme in the 90s. A brutal development process in the 90s that led to more thsn half the development team camping out in Redwood City Sega office building for months until they all got so sick half the team went on medical leave. Or Quake, where the game development process literally broke the team.
>Or Quake, where the game development process literally broke the team.
Going by interviews with the team over the decades, they had clashing personalities and poor leadership.
> AAA game development was far more brutal in the 90s.
Honestly it's probably always been brutal going back even to the early days of Atari. Companies like EA have spent three decades destroying beloved studios for profit, only to now be chewed up and spit out by PE/VC bastards themselves. A fitting end really.
There were plenty of bad games back then, and worse, you only had the cover to guess what the game was all about, if you were lucky maybe some computer magazines with a proper review, and if even more lucky maybe a demo on a cover tape/floppy/CD.
Today you have dozens of influencers doing play through, videos of complete games, everyone and their dog writing blog posts.
You would go out, give you hard earned money as kid, regardless of pirated or original copy, and then get a garbage game with no money back.
> All we see out of mainstream AAA gaming is abused devs, private equity scalping, and mindless remaster regurgitation. Basically going through the same problems as Hollywood is with major films. You get a massive banger of a production every few years, and the rest is just endless money burning and developer harm.
The production ethics and the product are two distinct aspects.
Regarding the product itself, definitely the AAA gaming industry is, like Hollywood, a dysfunctional production model, but that doesn't mean that it's dead in terms of quality - some franchises do maintain high quality (Doom has been exceptional in this sense) but even in terms of new IP, in average, there at least couple of high quality entries in average, every year. Things could go better, but they're certainly far from "dead".
Main issue with AAA gaming was studios consulting people who wanted to tell gamers what they should want, using their capital on paying influencers and media to demonize said gamers for rejecting their games and so on.
That's what pisses off the mostly straight hetrosexual male crowd that make up most of the gaming market.
A big reason why many east asian game studios are doing so well by rejecting that tried and failed formula from the West.
You don't have to go full GamerGate non-sense to find plenty of issues that are hurting the AAA market. Private equity, shareholders, and greed have been far more damaging to gaming.
why can't you see that their greed has enabled the dynamics that brought AAA market to its where it is ? you dont think PE has influence on media with their vast resources ?
> That's what pisses off the mostly straight hetrosexual male crowd that make up most of the gaming market.
Honestly, the hell kinda remark is that?
It’s nothing to do with sexuality or “companies telling you what you want” but everything to do with companies putting out complete and utter slop and people ACTUALLY buying it all. They wouldn’t waste all that time and investment money if they knew there wasn’t a market for it, but guess what? There is.
Gamers seem to have the memory span of a goldfish. Horse armour? Bad. GTA VI at 80 bucks and no physical release on consoles? OMG YAAAAAASSSS GIVE ME MORE OF THE SAME HOOKER-SEX SIMULATOR WITH CRIMINAL ACTS SPRINKLED ON TOP!!!
Don’t complain about gaming companies’ behaviour if you keep giving your money to them.
As oldie, I only watch some console podcasts for drama entertainment.
As you pretty well point out, gaming in general is doing great, it is only the gaming version of movie blockbusters that is going down the drain.
They take years to make, there is a limited budget in time, money and amount of gamers for all of them, which naturally due to the laws of physics cannot make all of them a success.
AAA gaming is not like going to the movies that one invests at most 2h and it is done, up to the next thing.
I also find kind of ridiculous the whole memes around PC gaming, it never went away, that is where many of us have been playing the the 8 bit home computers.
I can naturally understand where they came from, most likely having grown with consoles and never been close to computers for gaming as a child, like we were in the 1980-90's.
My take is a bit reductionist but I have found that there is this huge divide nowadays between the AAA top of the town and the indie games at the bottom.
AAA you know what you are getting, big brash but usually really polished cutting edge stuff but also designed by commitment.
Then you have indie games that are high ambition but also very limited in what they can achieve. So you get a lot of things with brilliant ideas but dont always stick the landing. Two recent ones I have been going through are Skate story and Gecko gods. Both have wonder ambition but you keep hitting those issues when you realise, yeah it is an indie title.
There is a middle ground but it is so hard to find in between those two extremes.
Maybe that's why it's dead. Do you know what triggered the first video game crash? It was a flood of so low quality games that people gave up on the whole video gaming industry. No one wanted a game or a console until Nintendo rescued the industry with the NES lockout chip enforcing their quality control.
Hell with emulation the sky is the limit now too. I’d be bummed if my steam account exploded today but I’ve got countless other options available to me. Whenever I hear people act all snobby and claim there’s nothing to play today i tell them stop playing modern games and go play all the old games that are allegedly so much better and perfect. How they can’t find anything among modern Indies in particular is beyond me, but hey, emulation’s right there waiting for them. Hell I have RetroArch on my iPhone. I was playing a PSP game all last week on mine.
I love that. My wife and I are hopefully having kids soon and that's one thing I really want to encourage. Not to say that modern games aren't any good, but there's an increasing lack of respect for the player's time and wallet. The goal is shifting to maximizing value because they're getting more expensive to produce, but increasing the game price itself is a cardinal sin. Not to mention that live service games just out-earn non-service ones.
I hope it works out. I can see it working in the reverse: I play n64/ps1/ps2/gamecube games with my kid, they go to school and their friends are playing fortnight or valorant, and then you become the bad guy for trying to be an obstacle in that.
Don't forget NES, SNES and Genesis. 2d games are way easier for small kids like 3-4yo. I personally would recommend Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck in World of Illusions as you do Coop and can save the kid a lot.
I was surprised that children that didn't grow up with the graphic revolution, does not seem to care about graphics. They don't seem to care they are playing 40-30 year old games.
One thing that's absolutely shocking is how "hard" it is to actually play games these days. Sit down with anything modern and between software updates, EULAs, load times, network congestion, etc. it can easily be 15-20 minutes before you actually do something; especially if you're an infrequent player.
Pop in a game on N64/Gamecube and you're controlling the character within 10 seconds every time.
The modern upgrades for those generations really make them great - the 8BitDo kit to make an N64 controller wireless, N64 Summercarts, replacing the optical drive in Gamecubes with a memory card reader...
That's true for the big-advertising-budget AAA slop games. Go do a search for "best indie games 2025" and you'll find more amazing games made just last year than you could spend several whole years playing.
Let your kid go over to their friend's house to play Fortnite or Valorant. And let your kid's friend come over to yours to play Mario Kart.
I think as adults we get locked into a few things. I remember as a kid I would play anything I had access to and liked. Now it's more of one or two games at a time.
As a lifer of gaming (with a wife with similar tastes), prior to having kids my friends and I would have the discussions about "raising our kids right on the old games". I can't claim to be some classic purist, my last 25 years of gaming has been 90%+ Halo, with other competitive shooters and hardcore racing sims, but we still own almost all of our old systems.
My oldest is 7, and my youngest almost 5, and they came into gaming in a round-about way. My sister was visiting when the oldest was 3 or 4, and asked to play "an old Sonic 3D game". So, I pulled the Dreamcast out of storage, hooked everything up, and she played for all of 15 minutes before getting bored. However, my daughter was enamored. Immediately asked to play and even knowing how janky old Sonic was, I obliged.
Honestly, the rest is history. I'm not exaggerating when I say that our living room TV currently has a Dreamcast, a Gamecube, an Xbox One, PS3, PS4, and Switch hooked up to it. Both girls are huge Sonic fans, and play everything from rereleases of the Genesis games, to every brand new Sonic game that comes out, along with a whole mix of other age appropriate games (3D Marios, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, and Mario Kart all being staples in our household).
My point in all of this is that if you expose them to the older stuff at a young age and it clicks, they'll explore the gaming landscape in their own way. I've also got an 11 year old brother that plays Fortnite with his friends every day, but also is trying to collect every single Lego game that's come out since they started the Lego Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. series of games. Kids will like what they're going to like, but having parents that are enthusiastic about the breadth of what the medium has to offer will encourage them to dig being the modern offerings.
I heard that Roblox is itself a slop platform to the point where someone AI copies every single popular game onto Roblox full of micro transactions, and the Devs of these games are saying they'd rather you pirate the game than play the crappy Roblox knock-off of it.
Wouldn't surprise me. It's an endless stream of ruthlessly annoying, seizure inducing 'games' seemingly trying to one-up each other as to how over the top silly their visuals and audio track can be while having virtually the same gameplay for Every Single Game. Add to that, it's filled with every dark pattern imaginable to try and trick kids in to paying for something, anything. Seems like it was from the start designed to be the perfect slop utopia.
Btw they're getting sued for actual child labor violations as it turns out all the dark patterns they used to entice children to make games for them amounted to actual employment, paid in company scrip which is obviously illegal and super illegal when the employee is a child.
I'm a bit of an old-timer now (almost 45), but I enjoy a lot of the classics on GOG. And at a price that can't be beat. Totally no interest in playing modern games.
>I think he picked up my "gaming is dead now" outlook since he doesn't really have any interest in new systems or games anymore
This is interesting, as I was about to say that gaming has never been more alive than it is now - but it's true that at least the developments in hardware are not nearly as exciting as they used to be in the past. Maybe that's what he's feeling?
The hardware thing is a yes and no type of deal. Yes next gen hardware is largely boring but retro gaming hardware is amazing right now. I recently acquired a r36s which is an amazing system and apparently can also run things like Undertale or Stardew valley (yet to try out this part). I'm having a blast playing the Pokemon games.
It's true that open handhelds are where it's at right now. Steam Deck is also just simply a wonderful thing. Yet I know it's just somehow not the same as it's been before; architecturally, there's less innovation, just more of doing the "obvious right thing" here, and the big players, especially PS and Xbox are just sad attempts at dumbing down PCs to keep their walled gardens. So, nice things are still there, it's sadly just not as exciting.
I grew up playing diablo II and super smash bros (super nintendo before that!). While I don't have as much time for it these days, gaming couldn't be farther from dead, IMO. There are incredible games and worlds being created both from AAA and indie studios alike.
It's interesting people have this perspective, there are some Numbers that support it. But there endless layoffs, studios closing and it's impossible to get a game dev related job at the moment.
I've been on-and-off writing a Zig library for writing N64 games and it's indeed pretty wild how getting working code was as simple as telling the compiler to use LLVM's MIPS III target.
Of course, getting working code that actually does anything useful is a much different story (it's taking multiple days just to write the wrappers for RDP commands, for example; lots of cross-referencing between N64Brew wiki pages v. official SGI docs v. libdragon source code v. Peter Lemon's assembly code to figure out what all the different bitpacked fields really mean and how to best represent them), but it still feels magical that I can just use an ordinary toolchain and not some ancient proprietary monstrosity.
The same way it's done now with current generation consoles: the manufacturer would provide you with SDKs and development hardware once you paid them a decent chunk of money and signed an NDA. Prior to the fifth generation it was common for the SDK to be just an assembler, debugger and register-level hardware documentation, leaving the implementation of a kernel and game engine up to the game developer.
Sony however decided to provide a full C toolchain based on GCC as well as a set of very high level libraries that abstracted away basically all aspects of the PS1 [1], all the way up to implementing a ready-to-go 3D engine and MIDI sequencer. This was an unpopular move as the libraries were slow, inefficient and most game developers were used to having full control over the hardware, but it also allowed inexperienced devs to get started quickly (as proven by the thousands of low budget PS1 titles that used the high level APIs) and eventually contributed to the popularity of the console over its peers with worse tooling.
Sony would eventually go on to release some slightly lower level documentation for certain aspects of the console as well as APIs that better mapped to how the hardware actually worked under the hood. It wasn't however until years later that the hardware would be fully reverse engineered at the register level [2], and it took even longer for most homebrew to move away from the official SDK (which only really started happening a few years ago as accurate emulators and homebrew SDKs started popping up).
It may actually be helpful to emulation. There's a technique called High-Level Emulation, where instead of emulating the hardware registers that are twiddled by the SDK function, you recognize the call to the SDK function itself and emulate the whole function in one go. This can provide a massive speedup over low-level emulation, but relies on the game primarily using the SDK. This was also used to emulate the N64 on Windows 95.
They had stuff, but it was all proprietary. The N64 was a stripped-down implementation of the technology used on (high-end) SGI graphics workstations of the time. SGI certainly had all the required tools.
Recompilation projects aren't bit perfect, only decomps. They use a recompiled version of the compilers for Linux so that they don't need to emulated with QEMU like they used to, though.
> Does Modretro's target market buy this type of stuff? Or are they the type to just download and emulator and ROM.
Speaking as someone who spent all weekend playing his new M64: Yes, the target market often does buy the cartridge. I've got a brand new copy of Xeno Crisis sitting on my shelf, although Xibalba was a close 2nd. (Tied with Buck Bumble ;) )
That said, there's definitely a crowd that would rather buy a summercart and pirate all their roms. Personally, I'm interested in more thoughtful and intentional electronics, so I'm attracted to the idea of old school "buy the game on a cartridge" mentality.
It may be counterintuitive at first, but why wouldn't be possible? It's one of the perks of "offline" hardware without subscriptions or DRM. You build a piece of hardware (cartridge) that attaches to another one (console) and it works. As long as the console works, there shouldn't be a problem.
Agree. There is a wall coming for "retro" video game nostalgia once we reach the end of the purpose-specific hardware era. Like, you can build an emulator for WiiWare games, but what does it mean to release a "new" WiiWare game when they're just built using an API like OpenGL which is still being used in new games today? What does following the constraints of an older system like that result in besides just another, lower, quality setting? What does "retro" Fortnite look like in 10 years besides just worse shaders?
> It may be counterintuitive at first, but why wouldn't be possible?
For the same reason it wasn't possible at the time for a third-party to make N64 cartridges themselves to avoid Nintendo's fees. But I assume these lockout chips are replicated or circumvented by now.
Related to this, every ROM needs a "boot loader" that has to be signed and is verified by the lockout chip.
Nintendo's boot code is under copyright and thus cannot be used. So the boot code distributed with Libdragon is signed by finding a hash collision with a brute force tool running on the GPU[1]. Fun stuff!
The “development” version of that is even crazier: it's a very tiny signed bootloader that does nothing but copies the “real” bootloader into memory, then trampolines into it, such that even developing your own IPL3 doesn't require having to re-brute-force the signature for every build.
And on top of that, libdragon's IPL3 doesn't just blindly copy the first megabyte of ROM code into RDRAM like the official Nintendo one does, but actually expects the ROM data after it to be a full-blown ELF executable, which it parses out and copies pieces of to the specified places.
They might be able to get around it with an affirmative defense in court, but they obviously don't want to, lest they lose.
But it's legal to use the Sony and Nintendo trademarks in a similar way. The court ruled that since they are checked by the console, there was no way not to use them, and Nintendo lost their protection by doing so.
Fairly recently the chip was studied in detail and replicated. But like most systems of that era, I believe it was circumvented fairly quickly by pirates. The easiest way would be to piggyback a licensed cartridge - unlike the NES, it has to be one with the same region and bootloader as there are several lockout chip variants, but that basic technique still works.
I never saw a piggyback cartridge at the time though, or one that was obviously unlicensed. Of course, this could have more to do with Nintendo's legal pressure than with technological possibility.
The main pirating route at the time (a device (oh which there were several) that sat under the N64 and had either an Iomega Zip drive or a CD drive for holding ROMs), had a port for inserting a real cartridge to use its lockout chip.
As far as Nintendo's concerned, it is. Their method of piracy prevention at this point was putting a lockout chip on every cartridge, and attaching their license fee to the lockout chip. Your homebrew cartridge needs one too.
IANAL, but my understanding is that whatever patents and industrial design rights Nintendo had on the N64 expired long ago, so replicating N64 hardware is perfectly legal as long as you don't use the original logos and trademarks.
Iirc a talk about the Gameboy hardware @ Chaos Communication Congress correctly, the system _requires_ the Nintendo logo shown at game startup to be present, otherwise it won't boot. And showing the Nintendo logo without authorization/licensing from Nintendo is copyright infringement.
This is likely not the case on the N64, but it's an interesting bit of detail of how Nintendo goes about things.
Companies have been building and selling clones of Nintendo consoles for many years now. I suspect if Nintendo had a legal angle against this they would've exercised it a long time ago.
Eh, you'd have to pay me to use anything from Analogue.
ModRetro put their effort where it matters[0], whereas Analogue aren't even honest about their hardware, with baseless claims of 100% compatibility, recurring shipping delays or screwing preorders out of picking case shells. Which can't even be readily replaced.
I consider all homebrew stuff very cool but the number of games emulating PS1 / N64 aesthetics is so massively oversaturated at this point that I'm kind of burned out on it.
But in general, the thing that really impresses me is what people come up with working within these various constraints. Less is more.
Megadrive / genesis homebrew is where it's at for me. But tbh I am honestly kind of clueless when it comes to this stuff. Still trying to get parallax scrolling and foreground occlusion figured out for my "game."
> the number of games emulating PS1 / N64 aesthetics is so massively oversaturated at this point that I'm kind of burned out on it.
The point isn't just to be a novelty throwback aesthetic. It's the most accessible way for indie devs to make a 3D game without needing to worry about particularly high quality 3D models and animation.
Well, youre trading quality for accessibility. For some, that's acceptable. To me, the number of steam games that emulate that aesthetic is so massive that its become oversaturated in my view. And in fairness, there was a major quality dip when 3d graphics started becoming viable. A lot of n64 games just look like shit to me. conversely a lot of those genesis games still look amazing, esp when playing them as intended.
Super interesting article - thanks for sharing your journey. As AI slop takes over the internet, well written and original technical content like these will be important.
Also,
2026 web dev: 4MB of JavaScript to render a button.
2026 N64 dev: entire FPS in 1MB
if I am not wrong, the game described in this article, is presented in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gOJUEcKYRk, from Palmer Luckey[1]. Wild this guy find time and energy for this side quest. That's passion.
Anyone know a vendor that might sell SummerCart in amateur quantities? Doesn't need to do that specifically, but maybe there's custom low volume board makers, like with 3D printer economics.
Are you looking to make homemade homebrew carts? If the M64 carts are anything like ModRetro's chromatic carts, the boards will be flashable. ModRetro has also stated they're planning on open-sourcing the design, so if we're lucky there could be a large variety of people making flashable blank carts in the near future.
I'm really looking forward to the Epilogue 64 Operator. I have the GB Operator, and it's been amazing to be able to flash romhacks onto carts and play on bona-fide hardware.
AWS (and many others) is also then war profiteering company with JWCC, C2E, WildandStormy, not to mention all the other defense contractors that rely on their computer power to design and operate mass surveillance and killing of people. Is your agenda selectively blind?
not OP but yes, i consider the tech sphere's dive into mass surveillance to be war profiteering and have eliminated or minimized several in my life including amazon and spotify.
for the same reason GP assumed war profiteering. Guy is maybe and probably, based on his talks, interested in his homeland's defense. Maybe he's in it for the tech. Every defense company is war profiteering and thus unethical, especially this one? That's not only uncalled for, but absolutely cancerous thought as exemplified by the thread and poison it spreads.
Nobody has invaded the US in nearly a century, nor will they ever again with the advent of nuclear weapons; to this day no nuclear state has ever been invaded, least of all one which is isolated from any conceivable rival by two oceans. Ergo, no American in the business of manufacturing weapons is in it for "his homeland's defense". Peace is an option, if only Americans would allow it to be.
I have mixed feelings about it. I don't agree with how my country often ends up using these technologies, but defense tech and weaponry still seems pretty necessary. The US is not the only one doing this. Should they wait for their adversaries to have the upper hand? I don't think it's such a bad thing, as long as they can put the right people in charge. That's a whole other problem.
He's not a war profiteer, he's a peace profiteer. His philosophy is peace through strength, not profit through death. He even strongly emphasizes saving lives through weapons with better precision, which has been the trajectory of US weapons design for many decades. Russia is over there killing everything in sight and leveling entire cities including thousands of schools.
Your claim is similar to saying nobody should own a gun, because it should be illegal to defend yourself or others. So everyone who owns any kind of weapon is evil and bad? Only bad people are allowed to own weapons and we should just roll over?
Nobody should defend Ukraine from Russia? Anduril has been helping Ukraine since very early on.
In a 2024 speech, Luckey said "Societies have always needed a warrior class that is enthused and excited about enacting violence on others in pursuit of good aims. You need people like me who are sick in that way and who don't lose any sleep making tools of violence in order to preserve freedom." ( https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/01/palmer-luckey-every-countr... ). He's said in a Bloomberg interview that "there are actually things I would like to build that the DoD would not use and would not deploy, that they do think are beyond the pale" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLFpYha6Wc ), and he's said in an Axios interview that he would be willing to build nuclear weapons, as well as chemical weapons "in a specific vertical". He then elaborates by saying that it's a huge mistake that the US military isn't allowed to use tear gas in combat. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZfW3YTJ5Eg ) I'm having trouble believing that someone like this is inherently peaceful and should be getting multi-billion dollar contracts to manufacture drones that autonomously kill people. Maybe it's better to buy a Nintendo game from someone who doesn't think that the US is being held back by war crime treaties.
I've already seen all those quotes and interviews. You're mischaracterizing them.
He's probably not wrong that you have to be a certain kind of person that can stomach the inherent violence involved, that doesn't mean you want to kill innocent civilians. Yet you do have to be the kind of person who understands that civilian casualties can happen. Life is not kind to the mind that is fragile to the realities of nature. That's accurate.
As for nuclear weapons, he explicitly said he thinks they have done a lot to stabilize the world, which does put some limiters on how extreme war can be, because there is an extra red line that actually matters.
When it comes to chemical weapons, he already stated that no he wouldn't create biological or chemical weapons, but he thinks that there should be a special exception for non-lethal means like tear gas and pepper spray. It's like, a woman can take pepper spray out of her purse and use it against a criminal, but the US military can't use pepper spray to suppress enemies without killing them? Killing people is a more viable option than suppressing them? I think that's the argument he's making.
Starting a weapon company is different from owning a gun. You have control over that gun. Your weapons company, those weapons will be used to kill innocent people, there is no doubt. Weapons don't only get used for clean operations in war and there is almost always collateral damage.
It is a decision to start producing regardless of how well-intentioned it is. You will be profiting off of people being maimed and killed. Various people thought they solved war through new weapons only to create more effective killing machines. That's what WW1 was.
Palmer does not have to work on weapons nor justify making them. Building tech that will be used to murder people (and yes, it will happen) is a decision. Not funding his other hobby when he's getting money off US military contracts is hardly breaking his bank. He wants to build weapons? I don't want to buy his products. Easy.
Building more efficient weapons does not make us safer. Every dollar saved through "strength" and better weapons matters little to the parents who lost their kid when the most precise weapon in the world kills a bunch of schoolchildren like it did at the start of the Iran war. If you can't gaurantee your weapons won't get used for that, why would you build them? You cannot.
The problem is that China, Russia, Iran and so on have all been accelerating their weapons manufacturing. Go complain to them.
If nobody in the world was manufacturing any weapons and it was fully observable from space, nobody would have cause to manufacture these kinds of weapons. We do not live in that world.
At some point, any reasonable person should agree that if a country exists in an environment that contains many threats it might need to defend itself or others from, then it makes complete sense for it to develop weapons towards that aim. Countries are not people, people are people. So people make the weapons.
It just so happens that Palmer Luckey is a person. He can't sell weapons to any random person or country he wants, he can only sell them to the US or with permission of the US to a country that the US has a strategic interest in defending.
Precision weapons have helped reduce casualties. This is a fact. Please try to contradict this fact in the face of napalm bombing and nuclear bombs of yesteryears. Please try to tell me that precision weapons aren't better than just randomly aiming artillery at the sky and letting'er rip. Please do. I want to hear your well founded argument for this.
Hey, if your argument is that somebody has to build weapons, then that's your argument. I don't believe that's the situation and building weapons only encourages other countries to do the same. Notice virtually all of Russia's justifications are about US aggression, rightly or wrongly.
Is it more efficient than napalm? Great. It still will be used to kill people which I find to be gross, especially when innocents will die, too. If somebody has to build weapons and somebody has to fund said weapons maker, I'm glad it doesn't have to be me. Doesn't have to be Palmer either.
If killing people is gross (which I agree with), then we should kill the people that kill the people, right? Or should people that kill people run rampant, because nobody should ever kill them?
If they should be killed, then they should be killed with the minimum number of civilian casualties possible.
Countless millions of people died in World War 1 and World War 2. So many people died that we only have estimates, because there were too many to count individually.
If nobody pushed back against Japan, Germany, Russia, North Korea, China, Iraq, Iran and so on, the world would not be a better place. It would be a place where full on global war was legitimized as a viable global domination strategy. And global domination was in fact the goal back then. The problem is, we aren't sure that goal has ever gone away.
As a result, the entire world is a chess board with smaller countries being manipulated or compromised in various ways for some other grand strategy. For many years now we've accepted that there would largely be some sort of equilibrium or status quo. Except these smaller countries also have a mind of their own and their people universally reject being controlled and manipulated.
Russia with Ukraine. China with Taiwan. North Korea with South Korea. Venezuela with Guyana. Iran with Israel, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Now suddenly all of these countries are all the prowl almost simultaneously. If you only look at US action, look at the world we're reacting to. It's not as simple as some political propagandist hitjob soundbite on TV being the complete answer.
We're talking about a company whose primary customer is the US military. Said military is currently involved in a pointless war of aggression. It has carried out unprovoked attacks on at least two other countries just this year alone. When was the last time the it was used in self defense?
"Peace through strength" is a fine motto, but you can't claim that motto and then turn around and base your business on selling to an entity that routinely starts non-defensive wars.
If you don't understand history or what's going on in the world, everything will seem pointless and you will fall easy prey to anyone telling you what you should believe.
You have so many tools at your disposal for learning, you really have no reason to just have no idea what is going on unless you just don't prioritize your time that way. In which case, it's ok to understand that you don't know, but why hold your opinion so strongly then?
Come out and say what you want to say. Don't give me this nonsense about how I have no idea what's going on and you won't even deign to explain where you disagree.
It is completely logically unsupportable that the war is pointless, so your claim is so flat and empty that there is no need to do anything other than point out that weakness in your claim.
Go do a couple searches real quick and see what some of the points of the war may be. Many of them will be incorrect or incomplete, but you will come back with at least some reasons that exist.
I was talking about the war with Iran. Is that what you're referring to here? Just making sure, because this is a pretty wild thing to say about that particular war.
Sure, I can do searches and find people giving various reasons for the war. What's your point? Am I not allowed to disagree with people? If I can do a couple searches real quick and find some people saying A, I'm not allowed to claim not-A?
I don't see how logic dictates that there's a point to this war. I understand that some people believe the war is being carried out to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon or whatever, but how does it "logically" follow that there is necessarily a point to it?
Ok, so that's one reason. It's not the only reason, because we don't commit so many assets for simply one reason. It usually requires many simultaneous overlapping reasons for us to do that. It is not a simple careless whimsical thing to send that much military to a place for no reason.
So let's start with the nuclear thing.
Russia is a bad actor. It treats its own people poorly, doesn't have a free press, doesn't allow free speech, it blocks a bunch of the internet so it's harder for people to find the truth. You get thrown in prison because they don't like you. Under the Soviet Union they killed millions of their own people in stupid famines from poor authoritarian decision making. They throw you at the meat grinder of the front lines of poor wars and destroy everything, because they do not value human life. They got nukes to make their bad behavior invulnerable. Ok, so fine, the world is a little worse off, but that's Russia.
Russia spread communism to Korea, since they have had a long-term strategic interest in Korea as a basing for attacking Japan in order to control more warm water ports. Japan and Russia have had conflict around this since the 1800s. It's not new. So Korean war. Now North Korea has nukes. They make their people suffer. The world is a little worse off, but that's North Korea.
Russia spread communism to China for many reasons too. China killed countless millions of people through poor authoritarian decision making too, through yet more famines. They kill any of their own people who don't agree. They took over Tibet by force. They execute more of their own people than the entire world executes, combined. They started building up the largest military mankind has ever seen and now they have nukes. Now that they feel invulnerable, they engage in the largest influence and interference campaign in world history, manipulating countries at scale and spreading extreme propaganda worldwide. It is all pervasive in social media comments, YouTube and elsewhere. I've seen this shift happen personally, slowly. It is not organic. So fine, the world is a little worse off. That's China.
Russia tried to spread communism to Iran and helped the Islamic radicals overthrow the government, thinking the communists could have some control afterwards or exist as an alternative party. Instead the Islamic revolutionaries kill thousands of communists to say, "no, go away." Now we have an Iran that is explicitly friendly with Russia, China, North Korea and Venezuela, learning from North Korea's nuclear program, sending its scientists there. It engages in Islamic revolution in a way similar to how the Soviet Union was trying to spread communism before World War 2, with armed activist militant communist groups. They infiltrated Yemen and that caused the war there. They infiltrated Gaza and Lebanon and Iraq. Afghanistan HATES Iran, because of their attempts to infiltrate it with their radicals. Iraq went to war with Iran, because Iran was engaging in revolution inside their country. Now Iran had built up a huge conventional military just like its friends Russia, China and North Korea, and aims to get a nuclear weapon to make their bad behavior invulnerable.
Iran can't be compared the same way as other countries that have nuclear programs, because most countries aren't Russia, China and North Korea which Iran is patterning itself after and buys military hardware from.
We're done with "so fine, the world is a little worse off". This is domino theory. This is salami tactics, slicing little bits of the world one at a time until the steamroll is so strong it has passed the tipping point and physics no longer offers a way for you to push back the tide.
That is only 1 reason for attacking Iran and it is highly abbreviated. There are dozens of other reasons for attacking Iran, defending Ukraine and deterring China from attacking Taiwan. Dozens of other reasons for capturing Maduro and trying to reform Cuba.
The US doesn't want to have to do any of this. We'd rather just be left alone and leave others alone, but that is not the world we live in. There are people that seek global domination and they are not the ones that want you to have freedom of speech or value your life.
Is this some confusion over the meaning of “pointless”? It’s all well and good that you and various other people see these reasons for the war. But “pointless” doesn’t mean there’s no reason or motivation. It can just mean “ineffectual” or “futile.” It can both be true that one reason for this war is to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons, and that the war is pointless.
If you want to back up your original reply to me, then you need to not only show that there’s a reason for the war, but that the war can actually accomplish those things. And not only that, but that believing otherwise is so catastrophically ignorant that it can only come from a complete failure to be aware of basic facts.
You can argue there are reasons for the war, although I already agree. You can argue that the war has a chance of achieving those goals. I don't agree with that, but it’s certainly an argument that can be made. But don’t give me this stuff about how it’s logically impossible to hold the opposite position.
I saw a video from the ModRetro YouTube channel a few days ago and thought it was AI because it only had 10,000 subscribers. They’ve been at it since March of 2024 and have less than 400,000 views spread across 54 videos. Strong attention economy recession indicator that even a memeified billionaire can’t get organic attention on a platform like that.
Good Lord. You know that Anduril industries will keep making drones no matter how many discussions about retro gaming you ruin right?
This backlash can hurt modretro, it can affect the author of this game, but the impact on the defense industry is zero. And this thread, fuck, you'd think running JavaScript on an n64 would be the safest place to avoid yelling about US politics in 2026 but here we are. And there's nothing to be gained. A smart person doing cool work published a game through a fun and ethical company that is owned by a person that also owns a defense company, so let's all scream about murdering children. As if that protects anyone from anything.
I mean, that's just defense companies in general now. Would you rather have your own soldiers dying in a war, rather than robots? Ukraine is using AI in their targeting, is that something you condemn?
This is no different from the invention of machine guns or artillery. Yes, it's sad that these things will be used in war to kill (more) people. But intentionally avoiding that technology means you're just handicapping your own military and sacrificing others' lives for your principles.
This is the same concept as "separating art from the artist". i.e. can you appreciate the creation without associating it with the personal foibles of the creator?
If you went around scrutinizing the personal failings of every single creator and deciding not to support their art, you would cut yourself off from a huge chunk of human creation. Creators and builders are disproportionately imperfect people.
Harvey Weinstein, for example, is a serial abuser and genuinely evil person. He also was involved in an enormous number of Hollywood productions. Do you go out of your way to make sure to never watch or consume media associated with him? My guess is probably not. It's impractical and also I think the net benefit of this mindset, where we only allow people with certain moral characteristics to succeed, is a loss for society.
They're posting flamebait in an attempt to trigger HN's cool-down autokill and bury the root post. Usual red vs blue tribal conflict, influence campaign, or people reacting to something that makes them feel bad by pretending it doesn't exist, who knows.
I wish I could just leave earth until this whole "tech industry" thing blows over.
Yeah, I’m seeing this a lot too recently. I guess polarization comes for us all eventually. Nuance and cognitive dissonance are so painful for some they simply flatten their position to something that feels safely straightforward, even if ghoulish?
It common to reply to silly comments with more silliness. It's a obvious virtue signal, which rightfully draws ridicule. Some people use mocking as ridicule, and it says nothing about the person doing the mocking, since they're likely saying it as a joke.
It's not a good or acceptable thing for the level of discourse on this website to be a bunch of 8th-grade boys on Xbox Live. You can disagree with OP or be conservative or whatever, but saying you want to support a drone manufacturer for no self-interested reason but because you like drone warfare is not a proportionate response to someone saying something "silly".
I think if the ethos of hackernews has become supporting the MIC because they create nerd shit or to be contrarian then this site has long since lost the way.
but your position that people just making nuanced non-emotional purchase decisions is somehow flawed itself is the main point of contention, its similar to how vegetarians keep pushing their views and preferences as a yardstick to measure others who don't share the same values.
so the question here is why can you not tolerate people simply separating a product from the manufacturer of another niche that is completely legal and is demanded by sovereign nations?
Xbox is literally imploding right now, they laid off half the company and significantly raised the console price. If sales were good they never would've had to do game pass.
Besides, it's a dumb argument to compare military purchasing non-weapons commodities like controllers or toilet paper to a literal weapons company. It is almost literally impossible to live anywhere in the world without using a platform hosted on AWS or Azure. It is very easy to not buy things from the drone and now retro-console king. They are entirely different asks.
but the comforts you enjoy directly came from those very items you listed as unethical.
you could live off the grid in the cabins without internet if you truly believed in being free from the grips of the military industrial complex and the petrodollar you deeply feel guilty about
anything less and you risk sounding like a hypocrite
Genuinely what am I supposed to do if you can't read? Participating in the global economy is not the same thing as enthusiastically giving money to a company that only makes weapons of war because you love war. If you try to not use AWS in a modernized economy like the US you will probably die on the street and still have unwittingly used AWS anyways.
A friend of mine did posit the quandary that an "unpalatable" individual such as Luckey appears to be one of the few making consumer-friendly products: Removable, swappable battery packs, AA battery support, standard USB-C charging, easy interoperability, open sourced designs, exposed screws, teardown instructions, etc. Apparently ModRetro is even looking into making dumb TVs for gaming.
It's ironic, in another world HN commenters would be lauding Luckey and ModRetro for all these virtues.
Comparing a run-of-the-mill defense contractor to a serial rapist and murderer is certainly up there in the most unhinged justifications that I've seen on HN.
I don’t think the parent comment was trying to equate the two, but rather pushing the argument to its logical extreme to test show that the reasoning doesn’t hold consistently across cases. Whether they made a convincing argument is separate.
Taking it to a logical extreme is good practice for thinking from first principles, but always pair it up with going to the logical extreme in the other direction. That might look something like: "would you really eat at a restaurant owned by a habitual jaywalker?".
Run-of-the-mill. Ya know, a normal perpetuator of war profiteering. I mean he's your standard enabler of civilian bombing. Simply an average propagandist. Just a regular guy!
I suggest you look into the perception of self defense. Saving yourself and others via killing compared to killing to commit a crime are perceived very differently.
That’s not it. There are plenty of industrialists who have killed far more than any serial killer just for profit and they don’t get anything like the opprobrium given to serial killers.
if you were around long enough, you would know that:
A) thats not a rule
B) that was added to the guidelines because people were complaining about article choices.
> So you know, either go all in and live like you mean it or stop pointing fingers at only very select individuals.
Careful. You're one step away from playing out the "Yet you participate in society. Curious!" meme. Besides, many people who are not in the Anduril fan club already boycott Microsoft for their ethical transgressions.
You can't use that meme argument at the beginning and mention that it is perfectly possible to boycott the other company at the end. The whole point of the meme is that participating in society is unavoidable, right?
And I don't think you can use "one step away from" a meme arguments at all. Pattern matching to a cartoon is not a great tool for this in the first place, and once you've acknowledged that the pattern doesn't even match, what's the point?
> If we’re gonna go for a witch hunt then we better hack off Microsoft’s head as well, for instance, since even their Xbox controllers are used in military subs.
Militaries aren't unconditionally good or just. There are, to put it mildly, valid criticisms of how the products of western arms manufacturers are used by legal militaries.
Yeah I don't really like Luckey, or what I've heard from him anyways. But in the run up to launch the Chromatic, it became pretty clear that this guy, for whatever reason, is really passionate about gameboy. I have been less impressed with the other emulator/fpga machines. the chromatic is solid though.
> It's ironic, in another world HN commenters would be lauding Luckey and ModRetro for all these virtues.
Lot's of HN (and "social" media) commenters in this world evidently are; nothing ironic about it.
It's just many people have a radically different set of ethics which, once they become principles, can't be easily, or at all, compromised on. And just to be fair, it's not just the what, but the how (which extends not just to Luckey & Friends, but to Anduril & Friends).
I am nuanced enough to appreciate that these qualities are present in the products being produced and still not buy from this producer because of their industry ties. Hopefully someone without such ridiculously unpalatable PR is able to copycat their design and sell a competitor - and hopefully the lead they've laid sets the standard for easily replaceable parts for the market (though, I'd mention that retro gaming hardware is intentionally made to be as modular as possible in most circumstances anyways).
> I am nuanced enough to appreciate that these qualities are present in the products being produced and still not buy from this producer because of their industry ties.
ModRetro produces one thing I do have an interest in. A partly aluminium-cast version of the, to me, most ergonomic gamepad made so far: the classic trimaran-style N64 controller. But that marriage ain't gonna happen. And that goes for every other (future) product of theirs as well.
Certainly one of the most devisive controller designs, but the lack of two thumbsticks is precisely what I like about it. The pad centers one thumbstick and the trigger on opposite sides of the "main hull", with the rest of the inputs divided along two (remappable) zones, i. e. the outriggers. I have never held a controller in my hand with better ergonomics and holding adaptability. Even the size is just right for my hands.
It's the only pad that ever made FPS games on a console a joy to play for me; put in two analog sticks and you fuck with that formula. Its only serious weaknesses are the cheap plastic, especially for the thumbstick, and the weight (too light). Make a full metal version out of it, with some thumbstick material mods known from the PvP fighting game community, and it's the best. Well, at least for me.
> Lot's of HN (and "social" media) commenters in this world evidently are; nothing ironic about it.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's ironic that the one guy providing these consumer-friendly features is considered anathema by many of the people clamoring for those features. You, yourself even mention downthread that you'd otherwise be interested in the M64 Pro controller, but won't consider it.
I was just trying to make a genuine comment remarking on the dichotomy, but I guess people are more interested in making quippy one-liners.
> I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's ironic that the one guy providing these consumer-friendly features is considered anathema by many of the people clamoring for those features.
Yeah, I got that. I just don't think the fact that a to me detestable individual can have, or work for, an outfit that produces (some) good, interesting, or even highly impactful merchandise is at all remarkable. History is littered with such people, especially in the tech sector (e. g. Ford, von Braun, etc.).
This propaganda against Palmer Luckey completely lacks any critical thinking. Then again, I guess all propaganda is targeted at people who aren't critical thinkers to start with, so that's why it ends up working.
I've seen this astroturfing and spreading of lies increase since he delivered weapons to Taiwan so they can defend themselves. Probably the CCP amping up their influence campaign against him.
The whole point of Anduril is to create autonomous weapon systems that can kill people autonomously without human involvement. When you look at interviews and speeches that Palmer Luckey has given, they are always deeply unsettling. In a 2024 speech, he said "Societies have always needed a warrior class that is enthused and excited about enacting violence on others in pursuit of good aims. You need people like me who are sick in that way and who don't lose any sleep making tools of violence in order to preserve freedom." ( https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/01/palmer-luckey-every-countr... ). He's said in a Bloomberg interview that "there are actually things I would like to build that the DoD would not use and would not deploy, that they do think are beyond the pale" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLFpYha6Wc ), and he's said in an Axios interview that he would be willing to build nuclear weapons, as well as chemical weapons "in a specific vertical". He elaborates by saying that it's a huge mistake that the US military isn't allowed to use tear gas in combat. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZfW3YTJ5Eg )
Creating “autonomous weapon systems that can kill people without human involvement” is not the whole point of Anduril. That is against SROE which are controlled by the DoW and it’d be a monumental ethical dilemma if this were to be changed.
Also, Palmer is one of many Anduril co-founders, and is not the acting CEO. His opinions are an input but are not ground truth for the company. He has effectively been a marketing figurehead for years.
Please stop spreading disinformation. If people engaged with defense technology and ethics in defense with more earnest curiosity, we’d have more productive dialogue and a less polarized tech community.
> Creating “autonomous weapon systems that can kill people without human involvement” is not the whole point of Anduril. That is against SROE which are controlled by the DoW and it’d be a monumental ethical dilemma if this were to be changed.
> Right now, there are so many weapon systems that require manning. You know, if I can have one guy command and controlling 100 aircraft, that's a lot easier than having to have a pilot in every single one. And it puts a lot fewer American lives at risk.
> To be clear, "autonomy" does not mean remote controlled.
> Once an autonomous weapon is programmed and given a task, it can use artificial intelligence for surveillance or to identify, select and engage targets. No operator needed.
> If you were having to require the human operator to actually map every single action and say, "Hey, do this. If that, then this." It would take so long to manage it that you would be better off just remotely piloting it. It's the AI onboard all these weapons that makes it possible to make it so easy.
To me that seems like he's describing a system where you give it a task like "kill all the insurgents in X area" and it'll go and do it without needing an operator.
> Also, Palmer is one of many Anduril co-founders, and is not the acting CEO. His opinions are an input but are not ground truth for the company. He has effectively been a marketing figurehead for years.
If the company's really good at heart, I'm not sure they would have kept a guy who keeps telling the media that the company is working on autonomous weapons to kill people without requiring an operator, and that he's frustrated that he can't make what he REALLY wants to because of all the pesky war crime treaties.
You understand that drones are used for precision strikes instead of indiscriminate bombing, right ?
It's the opposite of "sponsoring a genocide" (if there actually ever was one happening…)
I came here to say the same thing. ModRetro is like if Palantir decided to start selling board games. The company is poison by association and Palmer Luckey certainly doesn't hide it (the drone part, for example).
I am in the process of using Claude Opus 5 to build an N64 game, and it really works. I've written no code and it is able to build a fully functional game.
I got it to write a skill for driving the Ares emulator via GDB Remote Serial Protocol and it uses that for its feedback loop.
What do you get out of that? The utility of having the end product (a generated game for an obsolete console) seems pretty small, and personally I would think the fun is in learning about the inner workings of the time capsule that is 90s hardware. Would you mind explaining?
It's just not the same. I made games for the PSP and Vita and it's "different" than making games for Windows or Playstation/Xbox. There's something about seeing your creation on a tiny handheld. I guess maybe nowadays we got desensitized to it because our phones are actual supercomputers which can run Fortnite without breaking a sweat, but making a device with 2MB of ram play your game as you imagined it is just hyper cool and (for me personally) is incredibly satisfying.
I'm not trying to be dismissive here - I am the type to be into the nitty gritty nerdy stuff that using Claude skips, BUT I have exactly zero experience developing anything for a legacy hardware platform in any capacity (with or without Claude) so genuinely curious to learn varying perspectives here.
Is it about the idea of the platform having limited capabilities (e.g. akin to Game Bub or MiSTer) or about tactile aesthetics (e.g. possibly vaguely comparable - though not really - to r36t or play.date) or something different entirely.
Honestly I think part of it is just that it's cool to see software running on this platform. I remember coding some trash apps on the 3DS back in the day simply because I could. It was great seeing code running somewhere it isn't strictly "supposed to"
If you enjoy this sort of thing I’d highly recommend pico-8 and tic-80. Both have pretty full featured dev environments and have a set of restrictions that make developing for them fun.
While I agree with you, I think it's interesting that LLMs have progressed enough to be able to write working code even for niche and heavily-constrained platforms like the N64. I'm sure it helps that modern toolchains make that easier (I don't expect very many LLMs to be able to put up with the old Windows 9x or IRIX toolchains, to say the least!).
If your game fits in the bounds of N64 hardware it makes perfect sense IMO. You basically get virtually all modern platforms for free. Much easier than wrestling with all the modern API that are "platform independent" but not really.
I mean, there is plenty of people out there who enjoy the process of making a game(they have a really clear idea of gameplay mechanics they think would be fun when put together) but they really don't enjoy programming at all. I guess it's kinda the same - I Want to see my game happen, I don't want to code it. Which isn't that different from where all the other tools are leading us anyway. Nowadays you can make a video game by just downloading an engine and building everything using the included scripting language most of the time - no need to understand rendering, IO, input or anything else.
> Nowadays you can make a video game by just downloading an engine and building everything using the included scripting language most of the time - no need to understand rendering, IO, input or anything else.
I don't disagree, but I don't see it as a positive, looking at the current game releases and their performance being shockingly unoptimised, there is a lot of lost real world value in knowing the lower level details, it's like anything really, sometimes you have to do the hard/unappealing work to create your best work.
Hmmm look, I can offer you my perspective on this.
I've been a low level engine programmer in video games all my working life. I worked on a few AAA games that sold 20M+ copies, I'm not saying this to boast, I'm saying this to say I know how the sausage is made. My literal day to day job is fixing issues like "The RHI thread on the Switch takes 0.5ms longer than it should" and optimizing things as much as possible.
I think if you asked me few years ago, I would have also taken the same stance you did - that these tools make it "too easy" and we get unoptimized crap out there.
But you know what, nowadays I feel like I mellowed out a lot. A lot of these so called "friendslop" games are horrible in terms of technical work. And you know what? They still bring joy to people. They still make people laugh and have a great time with the people they like. One of my favourite memories from a game I worked on was reading comments from people who said they were looking forward to just playing the game after work in the evening with their friends. Was optimizing the IO performance on PS4 essential to make the game happen? Sure. But what mattered more was that the game was actually fun to play.
Nowadays I see the improvement in tooling as nothing but a positive. There will always be hardcore engine programmers who know how to do this stuff, I have zero doubt about it. But allowing people to just download an engine and make the thing is absolutely fantastic. To say that it's bad - to me personally - that's gatekeeping. Saying you can't make a game unless you know how to write a renderer or a physics system is so offputting to people who want to make a game but just don't know how - we should be encouraging them, not chastising them for it. Little Big Planet did it well as one of the first games of that kind, if you recall that - just saying, here's a sandbox, make a thing that brings joy to other people. Isn't that what gaming is about?
And on a more serious, business side - it's kinda crazy that Epic lets you use UE for FREE until you start making serious money on the game that you made. You can start a company, hire people, and just start making the game you want to make without paying anything for the tooling. Very few other companies in the world let you do this.
You know thats completely fair. I'm not in the game industry but I see some friends and what they do and I do have to admit, I wouldn't be able for it so it's not really fair for me to critisise.
> it's kinda crazy that Epic lets you use UE for FREE until you start making serious money on the game that you made.
Thinking about how powerfull UE is, it is kind of insane.
I saw a comment on HN a few weeks ago, can't remember the context but it was something along the lines of "listening to somebody talk about their vibecoded project is like listening to somebody describe a dream they had last night - you end up just tuning them out, because nobody gives a shit"
On the subject of learning something... Compare your comment to the sibling from Flashtoo. One is genuinely inquisitive and displaying willingness to learn, the other is just dunking all over someone.
One thing that grates with that style of comment though is the implication (whether intended or not) that the link/post author wasted time and could have just had an LLM do it instead. And I think it’s important that we make clear that that style of comment is not welcome here.
If there’s elaboration on why an LLM is being used… do it in the original comment? Otherwise it’s just annoying and serves no purpose
I don't think anyone's implying that people writing software by hand, especially as a hobby, are wasting their time. Like not even if you attribute unreasonably bad faith can you extract that out.
We're living in an amazing time where an algorithm running on a GPU can create novel things by itself and it's just exciting to share what it can do.
I love reading about what people have managed to get running with Claude, because honestly it's amazing that these models can do any of the things they're now doing.
I also enjoy seeing what crazy, cool creative things people are doing.
> that the link/post author wasted time and could have just had an LLM do it instead. And I think it’s important that we make clear that that style of comment is not welcome here.
So if someone talks about how "X" was hard and the first comment mentions there's a library to do "X", is that rude? Or is there a carve-out for the scary AI?
If someone came in with a story about how they were able to easily create an N64 game with No-code/AI/Libraries and the first comment was "ha! I did the same thing in a cave with a box of scraps" that would also be rude.
God forbid people share anecdotes about projects they were working on. On HN...
I agree with dwroberts here. Flashtoo's comment is indeed a better faith engagement on paper, but you should consider the question whether the root comment was deserving of such good faith engagement in the first place.
Going into a post where someone talks about their cool programming hobby project that they do for fun to say "I just made this with AI instead, it was so easy and I didn't even have to do anything myself" is effectively also dunking on the author and disrespecting/devaluing the effort they put into whatever they submitted, just in a slightly more indirect way. Personally, if I read such a comment under something I created, I'd feel way more insulted than if they just called me a slur or something.
These sorts of comments are everywhere on HN now, every single post not directly related to AI has someone in the comments mentioning [latest AI product] and how they used it in relation to the topic of the post somehow, to the point that I'm starting to believe it's straight up astroturfing. I'd argue that such comments deserve to be dunked on, downvoted, or even flagged, unless you want all non-AI discussion on HN to die off.
> "I just made this with AI instead, it was so easy and I didn't even have to do anything myself" is effectively also dunking on the author and disrespecting/devaluing the effort they put into whatever they submitted
Yeah! How dare someone share an anecdote about a similar experience they had! On HN of all places.
Somebody sharing an experience isn't disrespectful, neither is talking about how they had an easier time doing so.
> Personally, if I read such a comment under something I created, I'd feel way more insulted than if they just called me a slur or something.
Yes, you anti's are certainly irrationally offended by AI.
> ... every single post not directly related to AI has someone in the comments mentioning ... how they used it in relation to the topic of the post somehow
Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, many people use AI?
> I'm starting to believe it's straight up astroturfing.
"Anyone who disagrees must be a shill" is certainly a take.
> I'd argue that such comments deserve to be dunked on, downvoted, or even flagged
So everyone that disagrees with your post should flag it right? Since flagging is just a value judgment on something you don't like?
> unless you want all non-AI discussion on HN to die off.
Libdragon has been improved massively in the past year or so, there are now simple demo games that show capabilities far beyond the original N64 games (bump mapping textures, HDR, seamless loading of massive overworld maps, etc.) Really talented core team, fun to give them a follow.
Demos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP8g2ngHftY
I recall seeing a demo of an N64 driving an Oculus Rift.
That[1] was James Lambert, who was also responsible for Portal 64[2] and is now developing a completely new N64 game. His Youtube channel is worth a follow.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha3fDU-1wHk
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAkSHzR-P7M
I’ve been building quite an ambitious flash cart menu system for the N64 recently, and it’s been an absolute joy! Would really recommend anyone with a curious, hacker mindset that grew up with these consoles to explore this platform - it’s fascinating!
Here’s what I’m working on - it contains a comprehensive retail game metadata library & cheats database, can screenshot running games and execute frame-perfect tool-assisted speedruns: https://youtu.be/UyqtU0hgGRA?si=_YisdNOrQrSpdpNT
What flash cart does your system run on? And do you have any docs about how to get it up and running? I'd love to get TAS stuff running on my N64, has been a dream for a while
I'm tinkering with a PlayStation homebrew (voxel space renderer) and development for fifth generation consoles has never been easier.
Modern toolchains, programming languages, dev cartridges and libraries from the community makes all the difference. Outside of some niceties like ICE (gotta write that GDB stub for target hardware at some point), it's not that different from what you'd experience with modern embedded work.
I am still amazed my own minimalist PS1 tutorial series [1] became as popular as it did, given that prior to it basically all learning material on the internet was written around the decent-for-the-time-but-horrible-now Sony SDK and often based on 30-year-old example code full of 30-year-old C practices (in particular the complete disregard for aliasing and concurrency, which resulted in plenty of headaches once people started using those ancient libraries and example code with modern GCC). We even have bleeding-edge C++ SDK options [2] complete with an STL and coroutine support, so if anybody here wants to try their hand at PS1 homebrew development I would highly encourage checking out the modern tooling we have now.
[1] https://github.com/spicyjpeg/ps1-bare-metal
[2] https://github.com/grumpycoders/pcsx-redux/tree/main/src/mip...
To put this into perspective for youngsters, that horrible Sony SDK was considered a wonder for its time, and what kickstarted the movement away from Assembly into C for home console development, as main language.
Until then, only arcades had already made the switch.
On PS2, PS2Linux, Dreamcast there was already C++ support, by the way.
I’ve started to adapt my historic accounting of gaming away from hardware centric (console generations) and toward languages and compilers, and the force-multiplication they provided to developers which is tangibly evident in the products. Though these do correlate strongly with orders of magnitude of RAM being made available.
- Physical logic gate era of gaming.
- Assembly era
- C era
- OOP era
- Interpreted languages and game logic living in scripts on top of c++ engines
- Fully Gen-AI era?
FWIW, interpreted languages living on top of a native code engine has been a pretty common theme throughout. It goes back to early PC days (when PC meant IBM, Apple II, etc), where it was common that engine would be written in ASM, but it would implement a VM with all of the game business logic would exist to ease porting to very differnt systems. Almost all the early LucasArts games were written this way (hence ScummVM), Another World, the Sierra Games, etc.
Zork comes to mind. I am pretty sure there are plenty more really early.
> Fully Gen-AI era?
Yeah, no.
Your historic accounting is not to be trusted by any means if “gen-AI era” is something that you really believe is happening.
It's happening whether you like it not, because billionaires love gen-AI and they're the ones who decide what gets made.
They don't decide what gets played.
They decide what gets played legally. They decide what gets advertised - legally. They control your children's eyeballs since birth. Your children won't be told how to pirate Mario 64 or that it even exists. They control all the game reviews too.
Also the era exists whether or not you play the games from the era.
Hey, that rhymes
There is something so charming about the N64/PS1 era. They were so unique in their own right and you could tell at a passing glance which system was displaying on the screen even if you didn't know what game it was. Two radically different systems at the dawning of 3D console games.
I bought a MiSTer for me and my son and we played the heck out of Mario Kart 64 and Mario Golf. I think he picked up my "gaming is dead now" outlook since he doesn't really have any interest in new systems or games anymore
> "gaming is dead now"
One gets the impression that gaming is dead when one's only contact with modern gaming consists of reading headlines about a handful of AAA games.
In reality, the gaming landscape has never been better, as game production has expanded in several directions:
- The barrier to entry into game development has been lowered; People who are talented in design but not programming now have the opportunity to create games
- AAA budgets have increased; those who enjoy large-scale productions will find increasingly large games
- There is still a market for old-school games, so plenty of (especially smaller) companies produce retromodern games
Heck, they even still produce commercial Commodore 64 games o_O
Of course, there is less room for radical innovation, but people do not play only radically innovative games. And regardless, innovation still exists today, especially in smaller-scale productions.
it should instead say "AAA gaming is dead now"
All we see out of mainstream AAA gaming is abused devs, private equity scalping, and mindless remaster regurgitation. Basically going through the same problems as Hollywood is with major films. You get a massive banger of a production every few years, and the rest is just endless money burning and developer harm.
Meanwhile the good indie devs are a dice roll on if they are gonna get recognized by the world at large and find success, just like small budget films.
My game library gets older by the day and I prefer it that way, but love it when an indie game bubbles to the surface and gets beloved by enough fans to break into the news cycle. Itch.io is the only place I look for games anymore unless something I need for the collection hits GoG finally.
This is a very rose tinted take. AAA game development was far more brutal in the 90s.
Go look up the development of Sonic Xtreme in the 90s. A brutal development process in the 90s that led to more thsn half the development team camping out in Redwood City Sega office building for months until they all got so sick half the team went on medical leave. Or Quake, where the game development process literally broke the team.
>Or Quake, where the game development process literally broke the team.
Going by interviews with the team over the decades, they had clashing personalities and poor leadership.
> AAA game development was far more brutal in the 90s.
Honestly it's probably always been brutal going back even to the early days of Atari. Companies like EA have spent three decades destroying beloved studios for profit, only to now be chewed up and spit out by PE/VC bastards themselves. A fitting end really.
But they released the game and the game was good. Unlike today.
There were plenty of bad games back then, and worse, you only had the cover to guess what the game was all about, if you were lucky maybe some computer magazines with a proper review, and if even more lucky maybe a demo on a cover tape/floppy/CD.
Today you have dozens of influencers doing play through, videos of complete games, everyone and their dog writing blog posts.
You would go out, give you hard earned money as kid, regardless of pirated or original copy, and then get a garbage game with no money back.
> it should instead say "AAA gaming is dead now"
> All we see out of mainstream AAA gaming is abused devs, private equity scalping, and mindless remaster regurgitation. Basically going through the same problems as Hollywood is with major films. You get a massive banger of a production every few years, and the rest is just endless money burning and developer harm.
The production ethics and the product are two distinct aspects.
Regarding the product itself, definitely the AAA gaming industry is, like Hollywood, a dysfunctional production model, but that doesn't mean that it's dead in terms of quality - some franchises do maintain high quality (Doom has been exceptional in this sense) but even in terms of new IP, in average, there at least couple of high quality entries in average, every year. Things could go better, but they're certainly far from "dead".
Main issue with AAA gaming was studios consulting people who wanted to tell gamers what they should want, using their capital on paying influencers and media to demonize said gamers for rejecting their games and so on.
That's what pisses off the mostly straight hetrosexual male crowd that make up most of the gaming market.
A big reason why many east asian game studios are doing so well by rejecting that tried and failed formula from the West.
You don't have to go full GamerGate non-sense to find plenty of issues that are hurting the AAA market. Private equity, shareholders, and greed have been far more damaging to gaming.
why can't you see that their greed has enabled the dynamics that brought AAA market to its where it is ? you dont think PE has influence on media with their vast resources ?
PE wants profit, why would they hurt profit?
> That's what pisses off the mostly straight hetrosexual male crowd that make up most of the gaming market.
Honestly, the hell kinda remark is that?
It’s nothing to do with sexuality or “companies telling you what you want” but everything to do with companies putting out complete and utter slop and people ACTUALLY buying it all. They wouldn’t waste all that time and investment money if they knew there wasn’t a market for it, but guess what? There is.
Gamers seem to have the memory span of a goldfish. Horse armour? Bad. GTA VI at 80 bucks and no physical release on consoles? OMG YAAAAAASSSS GIVE ME MORE OF THE SAME HOOKER-SEX SIMULATOR WITH CRIMINAL ACTS SPRINKLED ON TOP!!!
Don’t complain about gaming companies’ behaviour if you keep giving your money to them.
As oldie, I only watch some console podcasts for drama entertainment.
As you pretty well point out, gaming in general is doing great, it is only the gaming version of movie blockbusters that is going down the drain.
They take years to make, there is a limited budget in time, money and amount of gamers for all of them, which naturally due to the laws of physics cannot make all of them a success.
AAA gaming is not like going to the movies that one invests at most 2h and it is done, up to the next thing.
I also find kind of ridiculous the whole memes around PC gaming, it never went away, that is where many of us have been playing the the 8 bit home computers.
I can naturally understand where they came from, most likely having grown with consoles and never been close to computers for gaming as a child, like we were in the 1980-90's.
My take is a bit reductionist but I have found that there is this huge divide nowadays between the AAA top of the town and the indie games at the bottom.
AAA you know what you are getting, big brash but usually really polished cutting edge stuff but also designed by commitment.
Then you have indie games that are high ambition but also very limited in what they can achieve. So you get a lot of things with brilliant ideas but dont always stick the landing. Two recent ones I have been going through are Skate story and Gecko gods. Both have wonder ambition but you keep hitting those issues when you realise, yeah it is an indie title.
There is a middle ground but it is so hard to find in between those two extremes.
Maybe that's why it's dead. Do you know what triggered the first video game crash? It was a flood of so low quality games that people gave up on the whole video gaming industry. No one wanted a game or a console until Nintendo rescued the industry with the NES lockout chip enforcing their quality control.
Hell with emulation the sky is the limit now too. I’d be bummed if my steam account exploded today but I’ve got countless other options available to me. Whenever I hear people act all snobby and claim there’s nothing to play today i tell them stop playing modern games and go play all the old games that are allegedly so much better and perfect. How they can’t find anything among modern Indies in particular is beyond me, but hey, emulation’s right there waiting for them. Hell I have RetroArch on my iPhone. I was playing a PSP game all last week on mine.
I love that. My wife and I are hopefully having kids soon and that's one thing I really want to encourage. Not to say that modern games aren't any good, but there's an increasing lack of respect for the player's time and wallet. The goal is shifting to maximizing value because they're getting more expensive to produce, but increasing the game price itself is a cardinal sin. Not to mention that live service games just out-earn non-service ones.
I hope it works out. I can see it working in the reverse: I play n64/ps1/ps2/gamecube games with my kid, they go to school and their friends are playing fortnight or valorant, and then you become the bad guy for trying to be an obstacle in that.
Don't forget NES, SNES and Genesis. 2d games are way easier for small kids like 3-4yo. I personally would recommend Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck in World of Illusions as you do Coop and can save the kid a lot.
I was surprised that children that didn't grow up with the graphic revolution, does not seem to care about graphics. They don't seem to care they are playing 40-30 year old games.
One thing that's absolutely shocking is how "hard" it is to actually play games these days. Sit down with anything modern and between software updates, EULAs, load times, network congestion, etc. it can easily be 15-20 minutes before you actually do something; especially if you're an infrequent player.
Pop in a game on N64/Gamecube and you're controlling the character within 10 seconds every time.
The modern upgrades for those generations really make them great - the 8BitDo kit to make an N64 controller wireless, N64 Summercarts, replacing the optical drive in Gamecubes with a memory card reader...
of course with the GameCube your 10 seconds is significantly Ur into with the big long dyobololodololo dobololodelolodelolode PLOP
significantly cut into*
That's true for the big-advertising-budget AAA slop games. Go do a search for "best indie games 2025" and you'll find more amazing games made just last year than you could spend several whole years playing.
Let your kid go over to their friend's house to play Fortnite or Valorant. And let your kid's friend come over to yours to play Mario Kart.
I think as adults we get locked into a few things. I remember as a kid I would play anything I had access to and liked. Now it's more of one or two games at a time.
As a lifer of gaming (with a wife with similar tastes), prior to having kids my friends and I would have the discussions about "raising our kids right on the old games". I can't claim to be some classic purist, my last 25 years of gaming has been 90%+ Halo, with other competitive shooters and hardcore racing sims, but we still own almost all of our old systems.
My oldest is 7, and my youngest almost 5, and they came into gaming in a round-about way. My sister was visiting when the oldest was 3 or 4, and asked to play "an old Sonic 3D game". So, I pulled the Dreamcast out of storage, hooked everything up, and she played for all of 15 minutes before getting bored. However, my daughter was enamored. Immediately asked to play and even knowing how janky old Sonic was, I obliged.
Honestly, the rest is history. I'm not exaggerating when I say that our living room TV currently has a Dreamcast, a Gamecube, an Xbox One, PS3, PS4, and Switch hooked up to it. Both girls are huge Sonic fans, and play everything from rereleases of the Genesis games, to every brand new Sonic game that comes out, along with a whole mix of other age appropriate games (3D Marios, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, and Mario Kart all being staples in our household).
My point in all of this is that if you expose them to the older stuff at a young age and it clicks, they'll explore the gaming landscape in their own way. I've also got an 11 year old brother that plays Fortnite with his friends every day, but also is trying to collect every single Lego game that's come out since they started the Lego Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. series of games. Kids will like what they're going to like, but having parents that are enthusiastic about the breadth of what the medium has to offer will encourage them to dig being the modern offerings.
I dug out the Wii I bought for my daughter for my 6yo grandson. He thinks it's great...it's about the only thing that he'll put down Roblox for.
I heard that Roblox is itself a slop platform to the point where someone AI copies every single popular game onto Roblox full of micro transactions, and the Devs of these games are saying they'd rather you pirate the game than play the crappy Roblox knock-off of it.
Wouldn't surprise me. It's an endless stream of ruthlessly annoying, seizure inducing 'games' seemingly trying to one-up each other as to how over the top silly their visuals and audio track can be while having virtually the same gameplay for Every Single Game. Add to that, it's filled with every dark pattern imaginable to try and trick kids in to paying for something, anything. Seems like it was from the start designed to be the perfect slop utopia.
Btw they're getting sued for actual child labor violations as it turns out all the dark patterns they used to entice children to make games for them amounted to actual employment, paid in company scrip which is obviously illegal and super illegal when the employee is a child.
The only thing surprising about that is someone might be held accountable. Maybe good news?
I'm a bit of an old-timer now (almost 45), but I enjoy a lot of the classics on GOG. And at a price that can't be beat. Totally no interest in playing modern games.
“Old timer” “44 years old”
Now come on. The greybeard act was never believable nor interesting.
>I think he picked up my "gaming is dead now" outlook since he doesn't really have any interest in new systems or games anymore
This is interesting, as I was about to say that gaming has never been more alive than it is now - but it's true that at least the developments in hardware are not nearly as exciting as they used to be in the past. Maybe that's what he's feeling?
The hardware thing is a yes and no type of deal. Yes next gen hardware is largely boring but retro gaming hardware is amazing right now. I recently acquired a r36s which is an amazing system and apparently can also run things like Undertale or Stardew valley (yet to try out this part). I'm having a blast playing the Pokemon games.
It's true that open handhelds are where it's at right now. Steam Deck is also just simply a wonderful thing. Yet I know it's just somehow not the same as it's been before; architecturally, there's less innovation, just more of doing the "obvious right thing" here, and the big players, especially PS and Xbox are just sad attempts at dumbing down PCs to keep their walled gardens. So, nice things are still there, it's sadly just not as exciting.
> you could tell at a passing glance which system was displaying on the screen even if you didn't know what game it was
I always felt the same about the look of PS2 games
I demand Sega Saturn representation in this list!
I grew up playing diablo II and super smash bros (super nintendo before that!). While I don't have as much time for it these days, gaming couldn't be farther from dead, IMO. There are incredible games and worlds being created both from AAA and indie studios alike.
It's interesting people have this perspective, there are some Numbers that support it. But there endless layoffs, studios closing and it's impossible to get a game dev related job at the moment.
I've been on-and-off writing a Zig library for writing N64 games and it's indeed pretty wild how getting working code was as simple as telling the compiler to use LLVM's MIPS III target.
Of course, getting working code that actually does anything useful is a much different story (it's taking multiple days just to write the wrappers for RDP commands, for example; lots of cross-referencing between N64Brew wiki pages v. official SGI docs v. libdragon source code v. Peter Lemon's assembly code to figure out what all the different bitpacked fields really mean and how to best represent them), but it still feels magical that I can just use an ordinary toolchain and not some ancient proprietary monstrosity.
How did they do it back in the day? Was basically everything from the tooling etc. just created inhouse from scratch?
The same way it's done now with current generation consoles: the manufacturer would provide you with SDKs and development hardware once you paid them a decent chunk of money and signed an NDA. Prior to the fifth generation it was common for the SDK to be just an assembler, debugger and register-level hardware documentation, leaving the implementation of a kernel and game engine up to the game developer.
Sony however decided to provide a full C toolchain based on GCC as well as a set of very high level libraries that abstracted away basically all aspects of the PS1 [1], all the way up to implementing a ready-to-go 3D engine and MIDI sequencer. This was an unpopular move as the libraries were slow, inefficient and most game developers were used to having full control over the hardware, but it also allowed inexperienced devs to get started quickly (as proven by the thousands of low budget PS1 titles that used the high level APIs) and eventually contributed to the popularity of the console over its peers with worse tooling.
Sony would eventually go on to release some slightly lower level documentation for certain aspects of the console as well as APIs that better mapped to how the hardware actually worked under the hood. It wasn't however until years later that the hardware would be fully reverse engineered at the register level [2], and it took even longer for most homebrew to move away from the official SDK (which only really started happening a few years ago as accurate emulators and homebrew SDKs started popping up).
[1] https://psx.schnappy.xyz/sdk/Psy-Q/DOCS/LibOver47.pdf
[2] https://psx-spx.consoledev.net/
Crazy then that the Bleem and Bleemcast emulator were so early!
It may actually be helpful to emulation. There's a technique called High-Level Emulation, where instead of emulating the hardware registers that are twiddled by the SDK function, you recognize the call to the SDK function itself and emulate the whole function in one go. This can provide a massive speedup over low-level emulation, but relies on the game primarily using the SDK. This was also used to emulate the N64 on Windows 95.
https://www.retroreversing.com/playstation-2-development-har...
The Dreamcast dev kits came with CodeWarrior as an IDE iirc.
Visual Studio surely, as they had a collaboration with Microsoft using Windows CE for the Dreamcast.
https://jacobfilipp.com/MSJ/directx.html
"What happened to Windows CE on the SEGA Dreamcast?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKHSlBi5qok
"Making Dreams Come True - Sega's Katana!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIr9YnMgExA
Maybe it was for the Saturn and previous consoles?
They had stuff, but it was all proprietary. The N64 was a stripped-down implementation of the technology used on (high-end) SGI graphics workstations of the time. SGI certainly had all the required tools.
The N64 SDK docs, if not the SDK itself, leaked at one point. I would expect that by now the whole thing has leaked long ago.
Come to think of it, it must have, because the bit-perfect recompilation projects are using the exact compilers from the SDK.
You can buy CDs of the SGI SDK on ebay.
Recompilation projects aren't bit perfect, only decomps. They use a recompiled version of the compilers for Linux so that they don't need to emulated with QEMU like they used to, though.
Yeah, the full SDK leaked decades ago when the system was still economically relevant to Nintendo.
Yeah, pretty much.
They provide the devkit hardware, the specification technical documentation and the tool chain to compile the binary.
"Modretro customer service address and, to my surprise, heard back from the head of publishing within a day."
This makes me want to jump in. But also, I wonder how many people will ever buy and play your game.
Does Modretro's target market buy this type of stuff? Or are they the type to just download and emulator and ROM.
> Does Modretro's target market buy this type of stuff? Or are they the type to just download and emulator and ROM.
Speaking as someone who spent all weekend playing his new M64: Yes, the target market often does buy the cartridge. I've got a brand new copy of Xeno Crisis sitting on my shelf, although Xibalba was a close 2nd. (Tied with Buck Bumble ;) )
That said, there's definitely a crowd that would rather buy a summercart and pirate all their roms. Personally, I'm interested in more thoughtful and intentional electronics, so I'm attracted to the idea of old school "buy the game on a cartridge" mentality.
I wonder the dropoff for launch titles versus on-going new releases.
Great work! I didn't even know it was still possible to publish new games for old consoles like the N64.
It may be counterintuitive at first, but why wouldn't be possible? It's one of the perks of "offline" hardware without subscriptions or DRM. You build a piece of hardware (cartridge) that attaches to another one (console) and it works. As long as the console works, there shouldn't be a problem.
Agree. There is a wall coming for "retro" video game nostalgia once we reach the end of the purpose-specific hardware era. Like, you can build an emulator for WiiWare games, but what does it mean to release a "new" WiiWare game when they're just built using an API like OpenGL which is still being used in new games today? What does following the constraints of an older system like that result in besides just another, lower, quality setting? What does "retro" Fortnite look like in 10 years besides just worse shaders?
Well, one thing is that it would run on a Wii.
The NDS graphics processor takes binary-encoded OpenGL commands through a FIFO, didn't stop anyone writing NDS homebrew.
> It may be counterintuitive at first, but why wouldn't be possible?
For the same reason it wasn't possible at the time for a third-party to make N64 cartridges themselves to avoid Nintendo's fees. But I assume these lockout chips are replicated or circumvented by now.
Related to this, every ROM needs a "boot loader" that has to be signed and is verified by the lockout chip.
Nintendo's boot code is under copyright and thus cannot be used. So the boot code distributed with Libdragon is signed by finding a hash collision with a brute force tool running on the GPU[1]. Fun stuff!
[1] https://github.com/DragonMinded/libdragon/tree/trunk/boot#bu...
The “development” version of that is even crazier: it's a very tiny signed bootloader that does nothing but copies the “real” bootloader into memory, then trampolines into it, such that even developing your own IPL3 doesn't require having to re-brute-force the signature for every build.
And on top of that, libdragon's IPL3 doesn't just blindly copy the first megabyte of ROM code into RDRAM like the official Nintendo one does, but actually expects the ROM data after it to be a full-blown ELF executable, which it parses out and copies pieces of to the specified places.
Pretty slick stuff.
They might be able to get around it with an affirmative defense in court, but they obviously don't want to, lest they lose.
But it's legal to use the Sony and Nintendo trademarks in a similar way. The court ruled that since they are checked by the console, there was no way not to use them, and Nintendo lost their protection by doing so.
Fairly recently the chip was studied in detail and replicated. But like most systems of that era, I believe it was circumvented fairly quickly by pirates. The easiest way would be to piggyback a licensed cartridge - unlike the NES, it has to be one with the same region and bootloader as there are several lockout chip variants, but that basic technique still works.
I never saw a piggyback cartridge at the time though, or one that was obviously unlicensed. Of course, this could have more to do with Nintendo's legal pressure than with technological possibility.
The main pirating route at the time (a device (oh which there were several) that sat under the N64 and had either an Iomega Zip drive or a CD drive for holding ROMs), had a port for inserting a real cartridge to use its lockout chip.
Yeah, though piracy is not the same as publishing unlicensed original games (bootlegs) like Xibalba 64.
As far as Nintendo's concerned, it is. Their method of piracy prevention at this point was putting a lockout chip on every cartridge, and attaching their license fee to the lockout chip. Your homebrew cartridge needs one too.
I think a lot of the early flashcarts were piggybacks. I was never into that scene though.
Nintendo is notoriously litigious.
IANAL, but my understanding is that whatever patents and industrial design rights Nintendo had on the N64 expired long ago, so replicating N64 hardware is perfectly legal as long as you don't use the original logos and trademarks.
Iirc a talk about the Gameboy hardware @ Chaos Communication Congress correctly, the system _requires_ the Nintendo logo shown at game startup to be present, otherwise it won't boot. And showing the Nintendo logo without authorization/licensing from Nintendo is copyright infringement.
This is likely not the case on the N64, but it's an interesting bit of detail of how Nintendo goes about things.
Wow the ModRetro units are really polished... Look great with more than a nod to the original system designs.
Anyone know what Nintendo's stance is on the companies making these kind of "brand inspired" retro products?
> Anyone know what Nintendo's stance is on the companies making these kind of "brand inspired" retro products?
Undoubtedly their legal team is at work 24/7 finding every angle at which to unleash legal hell upon it.
Companies have been building and selling clones of Nintendo consoles for many years now. I suspect if Nintendo had a legal angle against this they would've exercised it a long time ago.
Just because they haven't found one doesn't mean they aren't looking.
Really? I think the ModRetro M64 is hideous compared to Analogue's 3D (their version of the N64)
Eh, you'd have to pay me to use anything from Analogue.
ModRetro put their effort where it matters[0], whereas Analogue aren't even honest about their hardware, with baseless claims of 100% compatibility, recurring shipping delays or screwing preorders out of picking case shells. Which can't even be readily replaced.
0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gOJUEcKYRk
I consider all homebrew stuff very cool but the number of games emulating PS1 / N64 aesthetics is so massively oversaturated at this point that I'm kind of burned out on it.
But in general, the thing that really impresses me is what people come up with working within these various constraints. Less is more.
Megadrive / genesis homebrew is where it's at for me. But tbh I am honestly kind of clueless when it comes to this stuff. Still trying to get parallax scrolling and foreground occlusion figured out for my "game."
> the number of games emulating PS1 / N64 aesthetics is so massively oversaturated at this point that I'm kind of burned out on it.
The point isn't just to be a novelty throwback aesthetic. It's the most accessible way for indie devs to make a 3D game without needing to worry about particularly high quality 3D models and animation.
Well, youre trading quality for accessibility. For some, that's acceptable. To me, the number of steam games that emulate that aesthetic is so massive that its become oversaturated in my view. And in fairness, there was a major quality dip when 3d graphics started becoming viable. A lot of n64 games just look like shit to me. conversely a lot of those genesis games still look amazing, esp when playing them as intended.
Obligatory link to an interview with three of the Goldeneye developers about the development of the game. I found it very fascinating.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bNN9XhGZ3Yw
(Also The Centre for Computing History YouTube channel is seriously underrated)
Super interesting article - thanks for sharing your journey. As AI slop takes over the internet, well written and original technical content like these will be important.
Also,
2026 web dev: 4MB of JavaScript to render a button. 2026 N64 dev: entire FPS in 1MB
Have you seen .kkreiger?
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Tried to see if it was possible to buy the Rom itself. But it seems like you would need to buy a physical copy at this point:
https://modretro.com/products/xibalba-64
Does compatibility with M64 imply N64 compat?
Yes. The game was mostly developed with an original N64.
The cartridges from Modretro only work on NTSC N64s, though. I'm told the next production run should work on PAL, too.
If you go into the "Specs" tab on the right, it explicitly lists the original N64 as compatible.
Could one of you geeks figure out controller input over IP for multiplayer please?
At some point I reallly gotta sit down and play around with Pyrite64, it looks super cool
Great writeup. Thanks author!
Strange choice to go for a raycaster with sprites on the N64. The hardware is basically begging to be fed textured polygons.
All geometry is rendered as textured polygons. The raycasting step only determines visibility.
But yes, the N64 isn't particularly well suited for this type of game (or anything 2D, really). I didn't know that when I started the project.
Raycasters in the modern age are generally an artistic decision, not a technical one.
if I am not wrong, the game described in this article, is presented in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gOJUEcKYRk, from Palmer Luckey[1]. Wild this guy find time and energy for this side quest. That's passion.
References: [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Luckey
Each person that dies by his weapons of war makes him stronger.
wowowowowow
Anyone know a vendor that might sell SummerCart in amateur quantities? Doesn't need to do that specifically, but maybe there's custom low volume board makers, like with 3D printer economics.
Are you looking to make homemade homebrew carts? If the M64 carts are anything like ModRetro's chromatic carts, the boards will be flashable. ModRetro has also stated they're planning on open-sourcing the design, so if we're lucky there could be a large variety of people making flashable blank carts in the near future.
I'm really looking forward to the Epilogue 64 Operator. I have the GB Operator, and it's been amazing to be able to flash romhacks onto carts and play on bona-fide hardware.
As open-source hardware they are on AliExpress no problem
what about a playstation/sega saturn game in 2026 ?
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AWS (and many others) is also then war profiteering company with JWCC, C2E, WildandStormy, not to mention all the other defense contractors that rely on their computer power to design and operate mass surveillance and killing of people. Is your agenda selectively blind?
not OP but yes, i consider the tech sphere's dive into mass surveillance to be war profiteering and have eliminated or minimized several in my life including amazon and spotify.
Did AWS post this article?
Why are you presenting your unfounded assumption as a gotcha? Do you have any basis whatsoever to believe GP supports AWS?
for the same reason GP assumed war profiteering. Guy is maybe and probably, based on his talks, interested in his homeland's defense. Maybe he's in it for the tech. Every defense company is war profiteering and thus unethical, especially this one? That's not only uncalled for, but absolutely cancerous thought as exemplified by the thread and poison it spreads.
Nobody has invaded the US in nearly a century, nor will they ever again with the advent of nuclear weapons; to this day no nuclear state has ever been invaded, least of all one which is isolated from any conceivable rival by two oceans. Ergo, no American in the business of manufacturing weapons is in it for "his homeland's defense". Peace is an option, if only Americans would allow it to be.
This is why I exited the tech industry.
They've all become war profiteers and fascist enablers.
The only way to live with my conscience was to choose not to be complicit.
Good to see Kotaku's admirable journalistic practice of posting a list of histrionic tweets is alive and well
I have mixed feelings about it. I don't agree with how my country often ends up using these technologies, but defense tech and weaponry still seems pretty necessary. The US is not the only one doing this. Should they wait for their adversaries to have the upper hand? I don't think it's such a bad thing, as long as they can put the right people in charge. That's a whole other problem.
Well, are those humans Iranian schoolchildren or Russian troops invading Ukraine? Hard to make a judgment without knowing.
He's not a war profiteer, he's a peace profiteer. His philosophy is peace through strength, not profit through death. He even strongly emphasizes saving lives through weapons with better precision, which has been the trajectory of US weapons design for many decades. Russia is over there killing everything in sight and leveling entire cities including thousands of schools.
Your claim is similar to saying nobody should own a gun, because it should be illegal to defend yourself or others. So everyone who owns any kind of weapon is evil and bad? Only bad people are allowed to own weapons and we should just roll over?
Nobody should defend Ukraine from Russia? Anduril has been helping Ukraine since very early on.
Let the guy have his little side modding hobby.
In a 2024 speech, Luckey said "Societies have always needed a warrior class that is enthused and excited about enacting violence on others in pursuit of good aims. You need people like me who are sick in that way and who don't lose any sleep making tools of violence in order to preserve freedom." ( https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/01/palmer-luckey-every-countr... ). He's said in a Bloomberg interview that "there are actually things I would like to build that the DoD would not use and would not deploy, that they do think are beyond the pale" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLFpYha6Wc ), and he's said in an Axios interview that he would be willing to build nuclear weapons, as well as chemical weapons "in a specific vertical". He then elaborates by saying that it's a huge mistake that the US military isn't allowed to use tear gas in combat. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZfW3YTJ5Eg ) I'm having trouble believing that someone like this is inherently peaceful and should be getting multi-billion dollar contracts to manufacture drones that autonomously kill people. Maybe it's better to buy a Nintendo game from someone who doesn't think that the US is being held back by war crime treaties.
I've already seen all those quotes and interviews. You're mischaracterizing them.
He's probably not wrong that you have to be a certain kind of person that can stomach the inherent violence involved, that doesn't mean you want to kill innocent civilians. Yet you do have to be the kind of person who understands that civilian casualties can happen. Life is not kind to the mind that is fragile to the realities of nature. That's accurate.
As for nuclear weapons, he explicitly said he thinks they have done a lot to stabilize the world, which does put some limiters on how extreme war can be, because there is an extra red line that actually matters.
When it comes to chemical weapons, he already stated that no he wouldn't create biological or chemical weapons, but he thinks that there should be a special exception for non-lethal means like tear gas and pepper spray. It's like, a woman can take pepper spray out of her purse and use it against a criminal, but the US military can't use pepper spray to suppress enemies without killing them? Killing people is a more viable option than suppressing them? I think that's the argument he's making.
You should actually watch the stuff you link.
Starting a weapon company is different from owning a gun. You have control over that gun. Your weapons company, those weapons will be used to kill innocent people, there is no doubt. Weapons don't only get used for clean operations in war and there is almost always collateral damage.
It is a decision to start producing regardless of how well-intentioned it is. You will be profiting off of people being maimed and killed. Various people thought they solved war through new weapons only to create more effective killing machines. That's what WW1 was.
Palmer does not have to work on weapons nor justify making them. Building tech that will be used to murder people (and yes, it will happen) is a decision. Not funding his other hobby when he's getting money off US military contracts is hardly breaking his bank. He wants to build weapons? I don't want to buy his products. Easy.
Building more efficient weapons does not make us safer. Every dollar saved through "strength" and better weapons matters little to the parents who lost their kid when the most precise weapon in the world kills a bunch of schoolchildren like it did at the start of the Iran war. If you can't gaurantee your weapons won't get used for that, why would you build them? You cannot.
I thought Tony Stark already made this point.
The problem is that China, Russia, Iran and so on have all been accelerating their weapons manufacturing. Go complain to them.
If nobody in the world was manufacturing any weapons and it was fully observable from space, nobody would have cause to manufacture these kinds of weapons. We do not live in that world.
At some point, any reasonable person should agree that if a country exists in an environment that contains many threats it might need to defend itself or others from, then it makes complete sense for it to develop weapons towards that aim. Countries are not people, people are people. So people make the weapons.
It just so happens that Palmer Luckey is a person. He can't sell weapons to any random person or country he wants, he can only sell them to the US or with permission of the US to a country that the US has a strategic interest in defending.
Precision weapons have helped reduce casualties. This is a fact. Please try to contradict this fact in the face of napalm bombing and nuclear bombs of yesteryears. Please try to tell me that precision weapons aren't better than just randomly aiming artillery at the sky and letting'er rip. Please do. I want to hear your well founded argument for this.
Hey, if your argument is that somebody has to build weapons, then that's your argument. I don't believe that's the situation and building weapons only encourages other countries to do the same. Notice virtually all of Russia's justifications are about US aggression, rightly or wrongly.
Is it more efficient than napalm? Great. It still will be used to kill people which I find to be gross, especially when innocents will die, too. If somebody has to build weapons and somebody has to fund said weapons maker, I'm glad it doesn't have to be me. Doesn't have to be Palmer either.
If killing people is gross (which I agree with), then we should kill the people that kill the people, right? Or should people that kill people run rampant, because nobody should ever kill them?
If they should be killed, then they should be killed with the minimum number of civilian casualties possible.
Countless millions of people died in World War 1 and World War 2. So many people died that we only have estimates, because there were too many to count individually.
If nobody pushed back against Japan, Germany, Russia, North Korea, China, Iraq, Iran and so on, the world would not be a better place. It would be a place where full on global war was legitimized as a viable global domination strategy. And global domination was in fact the goal back then. The problem is, we aren't sure that goal has ever gone away.
As a result, the entire world is a chess board with smaller countries being manipulated or compromised in various ways for some other grand strategy. For many years now we've accepted that there would largely be some sort of equilibrium or status quo. Except these smaller countries also have a mind of their own and their people universally reject being controlled and manipulated.
Russia with Ukraine. China with Taiwan. North Korea with South Korea. Venezuela with Guyana. Iran with Israel, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Now suddenly all of these countries are all the prowl almost simultaneously. If you only look at US action, look at the world we're reacting to. It's not as simple as some political propagandist hitjob soundbite on TV being the complete answer.
We're talking about a company whose primary customer is the US military. Said military is currently involved in a pointless war of aggression. It has carried out unprovoked attacks on at least two other countries just this year alone. When was the last time the it was used in self defense?
"Peace through strength" is a fine motto, but you can't claim that motto and then turn around and base your business on selling to an entity that routinely starts non-defensive wars.
If you don't understand history or what's going on in the world, everything will seem pointless and you will fall easy prey to anyone telling you what you should believe.
You have so many tools at your disposal for learning, you really have no reason to just have no idea what is going on unless you just don't prioritize your time that way. In which case, it's ok to understand that you don't know, but why hold your opinion so strongly then?
Come out and say what you want to say. Don't give me this nonsense about how I have no idea what's going on and you won't even deign to explain where you disagree.
It is completely logically unsupportable that the war is pointless, so your claim is so flat and empty that there is no need to do anything other than point out that weakness in your claim.
Go do a couple searches real quick and see what some of the points of the war may be. Many of them will be incorrect or incomplete, but you will come back with at least some reasons that exist.
I was talking about the war with Iran. Is that what you're referring to here? Just making sure, because this is a pretty wild thing to say about that particular war.
Sure, I can do searches and find people giving various reasons for the war. What's your point? Am I not allowed to disagree with people? If I can do a couple searches real quick and find some people saying A, I'm not allowed to claim not-A?
I don't see how logic dictates that there's a point to this war. I understand that some people believe the war is being carried out to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon or whatever, but how does it "logically" follow that there is necessarily a point to it?
Ok, so that's one reason. It's not the only reason, because we don't commit so many assets for simply one reason. It usually requires many simultaneous overlapping reasons for us to do that. It is not a simple careless whimsical thing to send that much military to a place for no reason.
So let's start with the nuclear thing.
Russia is a bad actor. It treats its own people poorly, doesn't have a free press, doesn't allow free speech, it blocks a bunch of the internet so it's harder for people to find the truth. You get thrown in prison because they don't like you. Under the Soviet Union they killed millions of their own people in stupid famines from poor authoritarian decision making. They throw you at the meat grinder of the front lines of poor wars and destroy everything, because they do not value human life. They got nukes to make their bad behavior invulnerable. Ok, so fine, the world is a little worse off, but that's Russia.
Russia spread communism to Korea, since they have had a long-term strategic interest in Korea as a basing for attacking Japan in order to control more warm water ports. Japan and Russia have had conflict around this since the 1800s. It's not new. So Korean war. Now North Korea has nukes. They make their people suffer. The world is a little worse off, but that's North Korea.
Russia spread communism to China for many reasons too. China killed countless millions of people through poor authoritarian decision making too, through yet more famines. They kill any of their own people who don't agree. They took over Tibet by force. They execute more of their own people than the entire world executes, combined. They started building up the largest military mankind has ever seen and now they have nukes. Now that they feel invulnerable, they engage in the largest influence and interference campaign in world history, manipulating countries at scale and spreading extreme propaganda worldwide. It is all pervasive in social media comments, YouTube and elsewhere. I've seen this shift happen personally, slowly. It is not organic. So fine, the world is a little worse off. That's China.
Russia tried to spread communism to Iran and helped the Islamic radicals overthrow the government, thinking the communists could have some control afterwards or exist as an alternative party. Instead the Islamic revolutionaries kill thousands of communists to say, "no, go away." Now we have an Iran that is explicitly friendly with Russia, China, North Korea and Venezuela, learning from North Korea's nuclear program, sending its scientists there. It engages in Islamic revolution in a way similar to how the Soviet Union was trying to spread communism before World War 2, with armed activist militant communist groups. They infiltrated Yemen and that caused the war there. They infiltrated Gaza and Lebanon and Iraq. Afghanistan HATES Iran, because of their attempts to infiltrate it with their radicals. Iraq went to war with Iran, because Iran was engaging in revolution inside their country. Now Iran had built up a huge conventional military just like its friends Russia, China and North Korea, and aims to get a nuclear weapon to make their bad behavior invulnerable.
Iran can't be compared the same way as other countries that have nuclear programs, because most countries aren't Russia, China and North Korea which Iran is patterning itself after and buys military hardware from.
We're done with "so fine, the world is a little worse off". This is domino theory. This is salami tactics, slicing little bits of the world one at a time until the steamroll is so strong it has passed the tipping point and physics no longer offers a way for you to push back the tide.
That is only 1 reason for attacking Iran and it is highly abbreviated. There are dozens of other reasons for attacking Iran, defending Ukraine and deterring China from attacking Taiwan. Dozens of other reasons for capturing Maduro and trying to reform Cuba.
The US doesn't want to have to do any of this. We'd rather just be left alone and leave others alone, but that is not the world we live in. There are people that seek global domination and they are not the ones that want you to have freedom of speech or value your life.
Is this some confusion over the meaning of “pointless”? It’s all well and good that you and various other people see these reasons for the war. But “pointless” doesn’t mean there’s no reason or motivation. It can just mean “ineffectual” or “futile.” It can both be true that one reason for this war is to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons, and that the war is pointless.
If you want to back up your original reply to me, then you need to not only show that there’s a reason for the war, but that the war can actually accomplish those things. And not only that, but that believing otherwise is so catastrophically ignorant that it can only come from a complete failure to be aware of basic facts.
You can argue there are reasons for the war, although I already agree. You can argue that the war has a chance of achieving those goals. I don't agree with that, but it’s certainly an argument that can be made. But don’t give me this stuff about how it’s logically impossible to hold the opposite position.
I saw a video from the ModRetro YouTube channel a few days ago and thought it was AI because it only had 10,000 subscribers. They’ve been at it since March of 2024 and have less than 400,000 views spread across 54 videos. Strong attention economy recession indicator that even a memeified billionaire can’t get organic attention on a platform like that.
that's wild, it's not like the videos are hosted on an irrelevant platform like bluesky or something. Who knows
The article isn't "about" ModRetro, please engage with the actual material instead of off-topic political tirades.
> Modretro agreed to publish the game as a physical launch title for their M64 (a modern N64 clone), complete with cartridge, packaging and manual!
The article says the game is published by ModRetro.
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Good Lord. You know that Anduril industries will keep making drones no matter how many discussions about retro gaming you ruin right?
This backlash can hurt modretro, it can affect the author of this game, but the impact on the defense industry is zero. And this thread, fuck, you'd think running JavaScript on an n64 would be the safest place to avoid yelling about US politics in 2026 but here we are. And there's nothing to be gained. A smart person doing cool work published a game through a fun and ethical company that is owned by a person that also owns a defense company, so let's all scream about murdering children. As if that protects anyone from anything.
Do you see all weapons companies as bad?
Is SAAB bad making JAS Gripen being soon used against Russia?
I find your and similar views to be very childish. And somewhat suspicious.
Who would benefit from the west investing less in weapons systems? It boils down to what side you are on honestly.
> which makes human-killing robots
I mean, that's just defense companies in general now. Would you rather have your own soldiers dying in a war, rather than robots? Ukraine is using AI in their targeting, is that something you condemn?
This is no different from the invention of machine guns or artillery. Yes, it's sad that these things will be used in war to kill (more) people. But intentionally avoiding that technology means you're just handicapping your own military and sacrificing others' lives for your principles.
Anduril is not "just" anything.
This is the same concept as "separating art from the artist". i.e. can you appreciate the creation without associating it with the personal foibles of the creator?
If you went around scrutinizing the personal failings of every single creator and deciding not to support their art, you would cut yourself off from a huge chunk of human creation. Creators and builders are disproportionately imperfect people.
Harvey Weinstein, for example, is a serial abuser and genuinely evil person. He also was involved in an enormous number of Hollywood productions. Do you go out of your way to make sure to never watch or consume media associated with him? My guess is probably not. It's impractical and also I think the net benefit of this mindset, where we only allow people with certain moral characteristics to succeed, is a loss for society.
I think one thing we can all agree on is that if you despite the artist, you shouldn't give him money.
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Yes. It's not impractical, it's baseline human decency.
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They're posting flamebait in an attempt to trigger HN's cool-down autokill and bury the root post. Usual red vs blue tribal conflict, influence campaign, or people reacting to something that makes them feel bad by pretending it doesn't exist, who knows. I wish I could just leave earth until this whole "tech industry" thing blows over.
I've never heard of cool-down autokill. Where is that mentioned?
Yeah, I’m seeing this a lot too recently. I guess polarization comes for us all eventually. Nuance and cognitive dissonance are so painful for some they simply flatten their position to something that feels safely straightforward, even if ghoulish?
Social media’s a helluva drug.
It common to reply to silly comments with more silliness. It's a obvious virtue signal, which rightfully draws ridicule. Some people use mocking as ridicule, and it says nothing about the person doing the mocking, since they're likely saying it as a joke.
It's not a good or acceptable thing for the level of discourse on this website to be a bunch of 8th-grade boys on Xbox Live. You can disagree with OP or be conservative or whatever, but saying you want to support a drone manufacturer for no self-interested reason but because you like drone warfare is not a proportionate response to someone saying something "silly".
I think if the ethos of hackernews has become supporting the MIC because they create nerd shit or to be contrarian then this site has long since lost the way.
but your position that people just making nuanced non-emotional purchase decisions is somehow flawed itself is the main point of contention, its similar to how vegetarians keep pushing their views and preferences as a yardstick to measure others who don't share the same values.
so the question here is why can you not tolerate people simply separating a product from the manufacturer of another niche that is completely legal and is demanded by sovereign nations?
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> And ? Are you upset that Google/Microsoft/Oracle sells their tech to the military?
Yes
> Xbox controller is used on nuclear subs too.
I have never played an Xbox, nor do I have any interest in doing so. There is nothing interesting about the Xbox.
You're saying things about yourself, not the Xbox or MS.
There is something interesting about the Xbox, as evidenced by its sales record.
Xbox is literally imploding right now, they laid off half the company and significantly raised the console price. If sales were good they never would've had to do game pass.
Besides, it's a dumb argument to compare military purchasing non-weapons commodities like controllers or toilet paper to a literal weapons company. It is almost literally impossible to live anywhere in the world without using a platform hosted on AWS or Azure. It is very easy to not buy things from the drone and now retro-console king. They are entirely different asks.
but the comforts you enjoy directly came from those very items you listed as unethical.
you could live off the grid in the cabins without internet if you truly believed in being free from the grips of the military industrial complex and the petrodollar you deeply feel guilty about
anything less and you risk sounding like a hypocrite
Genuinely what am I supposed to do if you can't read? Participating in the global economy is not the same thing as enthusiastically giving money to a company that only makes weapons of war because you love war. If you try to not use AWS in a modernized economy like the US you will probably die on the street and still have unwittingly used AWS anyways.
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A friend of mine did posit the quandary that an "unpalatable" individual such as Luckey appears to be one of the few making consumer-friendly products: Removable, swappable battery packs, AA battery support, standard USB-C charging, easy interoperability, open sourced designs, exposed screws, teardown instructions, etc. Apparently ModRetro is even looking into making dumb TVs for gaming.
It's ironic, in another world HN commenters would be lauding Luckey and ModRetro for all these virtues.
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Comparing a run-of-the-mill defense contractor to a serial rapist and murderer is certainly up there in the most unhinged justifications that I've seen on HN.
I don’t think the parent comment was trying to equate the two, but rather pushing the argument to its logical extreme to test show that the reasoning doesn’t hold consistently across cases. Whether they made a convincing argument is separate.
I literally was trying to equate the two.
Taking it to a logical extreme is good practice for thinking from first principles, but always pair it up with going to the logical extreme in the other direction. That might look something like: "would you really eat at a restaurant owned by a habitual jaywalker?".
Except pushing it to the logical extreme is what makes it wrong.
Nevermind that he literally was equating the two and explicitly says so.
Yeah, one of them kills school kids for money. The other does it for the love of the game.
Run-of-the-mill. Ya know, a normal perpetuator of war profiteering. I mean he's your standard enabler of civilian bombing. Simply an average propagandist. Just a regular guy!
Wait, Ted Bundy was a defense contractor? I didn't know that.
He meant Anduril as the defense contractor.
It's funny how retail versus wholesale death is seen so differently.
Kill a few dozen people with your own hands and people are (rightfully) horrified.
Run a business that enables the killing of orders of magnitude more people, and you can be a respected pillar of society.
Killing instantly becomes respectable if it's done legally and for profit.
I suggest you look into the perception of self defense. Saving yourself and others via killing compared to killing to commit a crime are perceived very differently.
That’s not it. There are plenty of industrialists who have killed far more than any serial killer just for profit and they don’t get anything like the opprobrium given to serial killers.
I'm getting very tired of the redditification of HN. This place used to not be like this.
There is explicitly a rule against complaining about the redditification of HN.
your account is 5 months old, also that's not a rule.
> Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.
if you were around long enough, you would know that: A) thats not a rule B) that was added to the guidelines because people were complaining about article choices.
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> So you know, either go all in and live like you mean it or stop pointing fingers at only very select individuals.
Careful. You're one step away from playing out the "Yet you participate in society. Curious!" meme. Besides, many people who are not in the Anduril fan club already boycott Microsoft for their ethical transgressions.
You can't use that meme argument at the beginning and mention that it is perfectly possible to boycott the other company at the end. The whole point of the meme is that participating in society is unavoidable, right?
And I don't think you can use "one step away from" a meme arguments at all. Pattern matching to a cartoon is not a great tool for this in the first place, and once you've acknowledged that the pattern doesn't even match, what's the point?
> If we’re gonna go for a witch hunt then we better hack off Microsoft’s head as well, for instance, since even their Xbox controllers are used in military subs.
Sounds like a great idea! I'm all for it
exactly. who in their right mind would ever hate Microsoft?
Account created 2 minutes before this comment was made.
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Are domestic influence campaigns fair game?
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Countries have militaries.
Militaries aren't unconditionally good or just. There are, to put it mildly, valid criticisms of how the products of western arms manufacturers are used by legal militaries.
As well as military industrial complexes!
Yeah I don't really like Luckey, or what I've heard from him anyways. But in the run up to launch the Chromatic, it became pretty clear that this guy, for whatever reason, is really passionate about gameboy. I have been less impressed with the other emulator/fpga machines. the chromatic is solid though.
> It's ironic, in another world HN commenters would be lauding Luckey and ModRetro for all these virtues.
Lot's of HN (and "social" media) commenters in this world evidently are; nothing ironic about it.
It's just many people have a radically different set of ethics which, once they become principles, can't be easily, or at all, compromised on. And just to be fair, it's not just the what, but the how (which extends not just to Luckey & Friends, but to Anduril & Friends).
I am nuanced enough to appreciate that these qualities are present in the products being produced and still not buy from this producer because of their industry ties. Hopefully someone without such ridiculously unpalatable PR is able to copycat their design and sell a competitor - and hopefully the lead they've laid sets the standard for easily replaceable parts for the market (though, I'd mention that retro gaming hardware is intentionally made to be as modular as possible in most circumstances anyways).
> I am nuanced enough to appreciate that these qualities are present in the products being produced and still not buy from this producer because of their industry ties.
ModRetro produces one thing I do have an interest in. A partly aluminium-cast version of the, to me, most ergonomic gamepad made so far: the classic trimaran-style N64 controller. But that marriage ain't gonna happen. And that goes for every other (future) product of theirs as well.
Controller was terrible, if only for lack of two thumb sticks. Going back to GoldenEye, my second favorite game of all time... It's miserable.
> [...] if only for lack of two thumb sticks.
Certainly one of the most devisive controller designs, but the lack of two thumbsticks is precisely what I like about it. The pad centers one thumbstick and the trigger on opposite sides of the "main hull", with the rest of the inputs divided along two (remappable) zones, i. e. the outriggers. I have never held a controller in my hand with better ergonomics and holding adaptability. Even the size is just right for my hands.
It's the only pad that ever made FPS games on a console a joy to play for me; put in two analog sticks and you fuck with that formula. Its only serious weaknesses are the cheap plastic, especially for the thumbstick, and the weight (too light). Make a full metal version out of it, with some thumbstick material mods known from the PvP fighting game community, and it's the best. Well, at least for me.
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> Lot's of HN (and "social" media) commenters in this world evidently are; nothing ironic about it.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's ironic that the one guy providing these consumer-friendly features is considered anathema by many of the people clamoring for those features. You, yourself even mention downthread that you'd otherwise be interested in the M64 Pro controller, but won't consider it.
I was just trying to make a genuine comment remarking on the dichotomy, but I guess people are more interested in making quippy one-liners.
> I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's ironic that the one guy providing these consumer-friendly features is considered anathema by many of the people clamoring for those features.
Yeah, I got that. I just don't think the fact that a to me detestable individual can have, or work for, an outfit that produces (some) good, interesting, or even highly impactful merchandise is at all remarkable. History is littered with such people, especially in the tech sector (e. g. Ford, von Braun, etc.).
This propaganda against Palmer Luckey completely lacks any critical thinking. Then again, I guess all propaganda is targeted at people who aren't critical thinkers to start with, so that's why it ends up working.
I've seen this astroturfing and spreading of lies increase since he delivered weapons to Taiwan so they can defend themselves. Probably the CCP amping up their influence campaign against him.
Who else did he deliver weapons to?
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I don't get it. Modretro is for retro gamers. What does that have to do with those things you listed ?
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Tech killing innocents? Citation needed.
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Giving people context is gatekeeping now?
you just defined gatekeeping
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where did I say you should buy the product? I have no stake, I simply bought it because the original article said we shouldn't buy it.
contrarian and virtue signaling are very different. i could totally care less if you choose not to buy it.
i respect diversity
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I remain eternally grateful that HN's developers created an indicator that an account was created very recently.
For those not aware, look for the green name highlight.
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what makes him/them a war criminal?
The whole point of Anduril is to create autonomous weapon systems that can kill people autonomously without human involvement. When you look at interviews and speeches that Palmer Luckey has given, they are always deeply unsettling. In a 2024 speech, he said "Societies have always needed a warrior class that is enthused and excited about enacting violence on others in pursuit of good aims. You need people like me who are sick in that way and who don't lose any sleep making tools of violence in order to preserve freedom." ( https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/01/palmer-luckey-every-countr... ). He's said in a Bloomberg interview that "there are actually things I would like to build that the DoD would not use and would not deploy, that they do think are beyond the pale" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLFpYha6Wc ), and he's said in an Axios interview that he would be willing to build nuclear weapons, as well as chemical weapons "in a specific vertical". He elaborates by saying that it's a huge mistake that the US military isn't allowed to use tear gas in combat. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZfW3YTJ5Eg )
Creating “autonomous weapon systems that can kill people without human involvement” is not the whole point of Anduril. That is against SROE which are controlled by the DoW and it’d be a monumental ethical dilemma if this were to be changed.
Also, Palmer is one of many Anduril co-founders, and is not the acting CEO. His opinions are an input but are not ground truth for the company. He has effectively been a marketing figurehead for years.
Please stop spreading disinformation. If people engaged with defense technology and ethics in defense with more earnest curiosity, we’d have more productive dialogue and a less polarized tech community.
> Creating “autonomous weapon systems that can kill people without human involvement” is not the whole point of Anduril. That is against SROE which are controlled by the DoW and it’d be a monumental ethical dilemma if this were to be changed.
From a 60 Minutes interview Luckey did last year ( https://www.cbsnews.com/news/palmer-luckey-ai-powered-autono... ):
> Right now, there are so many weapon systems that require manning. You know, if I can have one guy command and controlling 100 aircraft, that's a lot easier than having to have a pilot in every single one. And it puts a lot fewer American lives at risk.
> To be clear, "autonomy" does not mean remote controlled.
> Once an autonomous weapon is programmed and given a task, it can use artificial intelligence for surveillance or to identify, select and engage targets. No operator needed.
> If you were having to require the human operator to actually map every single action and say, "Hey, do this. If that, then this." It would take so long to manage it that you would be better off just remotely piloting it. It's the AI onboard all these weapons that makes it possible to make it so easy.
To me that seems like he's describing a system where you give it a task like "kill all the insurgents in X area" and it'll go and do it without needing an operator.
> Also, Palmer is one of many Anduril co-founders, and is not the acting CEO. His opinions are an input but are not ground truth for the company. He has effectively been a marketing figurehead for years.
If the company's really good at heart, I'm not sure they would have kept a guy who keeps telling the media that the company is working on autonomous weapons to kill people without requiring an operator, and that he's frustrated that he can't make what he REALLY wants to because of all the pesky war crime treaties.
Sponsoring a genocide, I would guess?
Which genocide are you referring to, and what method of sponsorship?
You understand that drones are used for precision strikes instead of indiscriminate bombing, right ? It's the opposite of "sponsoring a genocide" (if there actually ever was one happening…)
What?
Nah this money came from selling Oculus. That’s what made him a billionaire…
I came here to say the same thing. ModRetro is like if Palantir decided to start selling board games. The company is poison by association and Palmer Luckey certainly doesn't hide it (the drone part, for example).
Only military using Anduril in combat is Ukraine defending from russia
That is patently false as a look through the company's wiki page(s) will confirm [1].
1. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anduril_Industries]
I am in the process of using Claude Opus 5 to build an N64 game, and it really works. I've written no code and it is able to build a fully functional game.
I got it to write a skill for driving the Ares emulator via GDB Remote Serial Protocol and it uses that for its feedback loop.
What do you get out of that? The utility of having the end product (a generated game for an obsolete console) seems pretty small, and personally I would think the fun is in learning about the inner workings of the time capsule that is 90s hardware. Would you mind explaining?
Not the OP, but when I was kid I used to draw game level for 8-bit systems back when I wasn’t allowed on a computer (screen time).
My point is, people get enjoyment out of game design too. It’s not just about nerding out on technical specs.
> My point is, people get enjoyment out of game design too.
The plot-twist here is: The game design is made by Claude too :)
I guess the curiosity here is in why game design for a modern target platform wouldn't garner the same enjoyment.
It's just not the same. I made games for the PSP and Vita and it's "different" than making games for Windows or Playstation/Xbox. There's something about seeing your creation on a tiny handheld. I guess maybe nowadays we got desensitized to it because our phones are actual supercomputers which can run Fortnite without breaking a sweat, but making a device with 2MB of ram play your game as you imagined it is just hyper cool and (for me personally) is incredibly satisfying.
I'm not trying to be dismissive here - I am the type to be into the nitty gritty nerdy stuff that using Claude skips, BUT I have exactly zero experience developing anything for a legacy hardware platform in any capacity (with or without Claude) so genuinely curious to learn varying perspectives here.
Is it about the idea of the platform having limited capabilities (e.g. akin to Game Bub or MiSTer) or about tactile aesthetics (e.g. possibly vaguely comparable - though not really - to r36t or play.date) or something different entirely.
Honestly I think part of it is just that it's cool to see software running on this platform. I remember coding some trash apps on the 3DS back in the day simply because I could. It was great seeing code running somewhere it isn't strictly "supposed to"
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If you enjoy this sort of thing I’d highly recommend pico-8 and tic-80. Both have pretty full featured dev environments and have a set of restrictions that make developing for them fun.
But they aren't real hardware platforms.
Yep, I made several games for the Pico-8, it's really really fun.
While I agree with you, I think it's interesting that LLMs have progressed enough to be able to write working code even for niche and heavily-constrained platforms like the N64. I'm sure it helps that modern toolchains make that easier (I don't expect very many LLMs to be able to put up with the old Windows 9x or IRIX toolchains, to say the least!).
Just as there are people who like programming for its own sake, there are also people who like making AI do things, for its own sake.
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If your game fits in the bounds of N64 hardware it makes perfect sense IMO. You basically get virtually all modern platforms for free. Much easier than wrestling with all the modern API that are "platform independent" but not really.
I mean, there is plenty of people out there who enjoy the process of making a game(they have a really clear idea of gameplay mechanics they think would be fun when put together) but they really don't enjoy programming at all. I guess it's kinda the same - I Want to see my game happen, I don't want to code it. Which isn't that different from where all the other tools are leading us anyway. Nowadays you can make a video game by just downloading an engine and building everything using the included scripting language most of the time - no need to understand rendering, IO, input or anything else.
There's a time and place for everything.
> Nowadays you can make a video game by just downloading an engine and building everything using the included scripting language most of the time - no need to understand rendering, IO, input or anything else.
I don't disagree, but I don't see it as a positive, looking at the current game releases and their performance being shockingly unoptimised, there is a lot of lost real world value in knowing the lower level details, it's like anything really, sometimes you have to do the hard/unappealing work to create your best work.
Hmmm look, I can offer you my perspective on this.
I've been a low level engine programmer in video games all my working life. I worked on a few AAA games that sold 20M+ copies, I'm not saying this to boast, I'm saying this to say I know how the sausage is made. My literal day to day job is fixing issues like "The RHI thread on the Switch takes 0.5ms longer than it should" and optimizing things as much as possible.
I think if you asked me few years ago, I would have also taken the same stance you did - that these tools make it "too easy" and we get unoptimized crap out there.
But you know what, nowadays I feel like I mellowed out a lot. A lot of these so called "friendslop" games are horrible in terms of technical work. And you know what? They still bring joy to people. They still make people laugh and have a great time with the people they like. One of my favourite memories from a game I worked on was reading comments from people who said they were looking forward to just playing the game after work in the evening with their friends. Was optimizing the IO performance on PS4 essential to make the game happen? Sure. But what mattered more was that the game was actually fun to play.
Nowadays I see the improvement in tooling as nothing but a positive. There will always be hardcore engine programmers who know how to do this stuff, I have zero doubt about it. But allowing people to just download an engine and make the thing is absolutely fantastic. To say that it's bad - to me personally - that's gatekeeping. Saying you can't make a game unless you know how to write a renderer or a physics system is so offputting to people who want to make a game but just don't know how - we should be encouraging them, not chastising them for it. Little Big Planet did it well as one of the first games of that kind, if you recall that - just saying, here's a sandbox, make a thing that brings joy to other people. Isn't that what gaming is about?
And on a more serious, business side - it's kinda crazy that Epic lets you use UE for FREE until you start making serious money on the game that you made. You can start a company, hire people, and just start making the game you want to make without paying anything for the tooling. Very few other companies in the world let you do this.
You know thats completely fair. I'm not in the game industry but I see some friends and what they do and I do have to admit, I wouldn't be able for it so it's not really fair for me to critisise.
> it's kinda crazy that Epic lets you use UE for FREE until you start making serious money on the game that you made.
Thinking about how powerfull UE is, it is kind of insane.
Urgh. Cool story...
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I saw a comment on HN a few weeks ago, can't remember the context but it was something along the lines of "listening to somebody talk about their vibecoded project is like listening to somebody describe a dream they had last night - you end up just tuning them out, because nobody gives a shit"
On the subject of learning something... Compare your comment to the sibling from Flashtoo. One is genuinely inquisitive and displaying willingness to learn, the other is just dunking all over someone.
One thing that grates with that style of comment though is the implication (whether intended or not) that the link/post author wasted time and could have just had an LLM do it instead. And I think it’s important that we make clear that that style of comment is not welcome here.
If there’s elaboration on why an LLM is being used… do it in the original comment? Otherwise it’s just annoying and serves no purpose
I don't think anyone's implying that people writing software by hand, especially as a hobby, are wasting their time. Like not even if you attribute unreasonably bad faith can you extract that out.
We're living in an amazing time where an algorithm running on a GPU can create novel things by itself and it's just exciting to share what it can do.
I love reading about what people have managed to get running with Claude, because honestly it's amazing that these models can do any of the things they're now doing.
I also enjoy seeing what crazy, cool creative things people are doing.
> that the link/post author wasted time and could have just had an LLM do it instead. And I think it’s important that we make clear that that style of comment is not welcome here.
So if someone talks about how "X" was hard and the first comment mentions there's a library to do "X", is that rude? Or is there a carve-out for the scary AI?
If someone came in with a story about how they were able to easily create an N64 game with No-code/AI/Libraries and the first comment was "ha! I did the same thing in a cave with a box of scraps" that would also be rude.
God forbid people share anecdotes about projects they were working on. On HN...
I agree with dwroberts here. Flashtoo's comment is indeed a better faith engagement on paper, but you should consider the question whether the root comment was deserving of such good faith engagement in the first place.
Going into a post where someone talks about their cool programming hobby project that they do for fun to say "I just made this with AI instead, it was so easy and I didn't even have to do anything myself" is effectively also dunking on the author and disrespecting/devaluing the effort they put into whatever they submitted, just in a slightly more indirect way. Personally, if I read such a comment under something I created, I'd feel way more insulted than if they just called me a slur or something.
These sorts of comments are everywhere on HN now, every single post not directly related to AI has someone in the comments mentioning [latest AI product] and how they used it in relation to the topic of the post somehow, to the point that I'm starting to believe it's straight up astroturfing. I'd argue that such comments deserve to be dunked on, downvoted, or even flagged, unless you want all non-AI discussion on HN to die off.
> "I just made this with AI instead, it was so easy and I didn't even have to do anything myself" is effectively also dunking on the author and disrespecting/devaluing the effort they put into whatever they submitted
Yeah! How dare someone share an anecdote about a similar experience they had! On HN of all places. Somebody sharing an experience isn't disrespectful, neither is talking about how they had an easier time doing so.
> Personally, if I read such a comment under something I created, I'd feel way more insulted than if they just called me a slur or something.
Yes, you anti's are certainly irrationally offended by AI.
> ... every single post not directly related to AI has someone in the comments mentioning ... how they used it in relation to the topic of the post somehow
Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, many people use AI?
> I'm starting to believe it's straight up astroturfing.
"Anyone who disagrees must be a shill" is certainly a take.
> I'd argue that such comments deserve to be dunked on, downvoted, or even flagged
So everyone that disagrees with your post should flag it right? Since flagging is just a value judgment on something you don't like?
> unless you want all non-AI discussion on HN to die off.
Least hyperbolic Anti-AI comment.
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So is Nintendo Online a popular service? I'm curious if I should get it.