Why aren't the data centers footing the bill? If they want to suddenly spawn GW of load out of thin air then they can pay for the needed infrastructure without pushing that burden to other customers. Power companies have demand metering which offsets the cost of ensuring there is capacity available for commercial and industrial customer loads. Something similar should be levied against large single point of use customers like this.
I'd say there's a bit of a difference, and I live in a city that's been dealing with that as a problem over the last couple of years.
If you have a pro sports team in your region, then you have mindshare among a significant chunk of the American public for months out of the year through broadcasts, blogs, articles, and now sports books. If you are, oh, I don't know, Kansas City, it might get you mindshare you wouldn't have otherwise. It's hard to put a price tag on mindshare, so cities think that it's worth it.
If you have a data center, you have... a data center. I don't think "jeeze, I need to go up 29 or 35 to Iowa soon" each time I spin up a new GCP project in us-central1.
Ultimately a lot of states - particularly in the middle of the country - have political power that is held by rural interests, regardless of whether that's where most of the population lives in that state. Missouri is an example of this: two major progressive-leaning cities and two mid-sized college towns that puts about 60-70% of the population as urban, but very rural/conservative state government. That state government is made of people who don't grasp what the hell a data center is, how it's run, and what it brings to the local economy. They think it's a slice of Silicon Valley, but it's not (and honestly, thank God for that), and it won't bring that sort of employment, but they can't suss that out.
> Something similar should be levied against large single point of use customers like this.
Already exists and has for decades.
All the "rules" (literal laws in some cases) for how the cost is borne for grid upgrade costs are a complex web.
There's half a dozen different ways you "apply" to connect a large load or generation to the grid. They all come with different rules that make or break things. And all this has multi-year timelines.
Source: Trying to get someone else to develop solar on my property
Because they can make the rest of us pay for it and historically there's been little pushback against that. That's changing, but that's why they shove it off on the rest of us.
Socialize costs, privatize gains. If they didn't try to make someone else pay for it, some activist shareholder might attempt to make them try it. Then all of the other players in the space copy the same playbook and now it's practically mandated that if you want to compete in the data center development market, you must make someone else pay for the electricity, lest the returns on such an investment lag behind those who do.
Why should they? If demand for X goes up, and price goes up, the whole point of the price system is to incentivize all users of X to use less and producers of X to make more.
Here's an example where the benefit is obvious:
Say I set up a desalination plant for a city with water shortages. I use a lot of electricity; this drives up electricity prices. But I also sell the more scarce water, lowering the price of water. If I make more selling the water, then to first order I'm helping people overall- they value the water more than the electricity. Perhaps I put other, less efficient desalination plants out of use, or simply other uses of electricity that people value less than the water I provide.
Yeah, the issue with your example is that it's not a desalination plant serving local customers, but rather the entire world via a network. So rural customers have to pay for negative externalities that benefit others geographically distant from them. The benefit is not purely localized. Of course data centers bring jobs etc. I don't think we should ban them... but community level politics exist for a reason -- those that live in a geography should control the land surrounding them.
Because utilities are regulated monopolies that exist to benefit society. The companies building data-centers are well aware that the system isn't setup to handle a customer that suddenly doubles or triples the electric demand of a whole town over night. They are taking advantage of that until someone steps in.
Electricity production isn't a free market in the vast majority of municipalities. Market systems only work when demand and supply are relatively unconstrained. In this case, supply is strongly constrained.
The map in this article just shows density of data centers in each state. They do cite this [newsweek article](https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-electricity-costs-in-ever...) which does include a table that shows residential electricity cost changes by state.
- "The state-level numbers make that abstract claim concrete"
- "That’s not a market failure. That’s a policy choice."
And the map doesn't seem to link with the information in the article, and states like Hawaii don't link up at all with the points made. Very little data to back it up too, and instead it's linking to its own site. One weird example is when Microsoft is mentioned in regard to covering its own costs, but the link goes to an article about a protest at a Microsoft data center and has nothing to do with the pledge.
A brief skim of a few other articles on the site have similar issues. Is there a way to ignore or down-vote an entire domain?
Trash AI article with a useless map. It looks to be a screenshot from an interactive version in the linked Newsweek article[^1] that was mangled by the slop grinder.
The source map shows current electricity costs rather than projected ones. This makes more sense given NY just implemented a moratorium on new data centers (because who uses the Internet in New York anyway /s) but it was dark blue on there.
As someone who pays attention to Texas energy rates, I'm gonna call BS on atleast the TX portion of this as rates are at multi year lows. Here are the current rates (1 year contracts):
- Oncor (DFW) 11.6 kwh
- Centerpoint (Houston) 10.8 kwh
- AEP Texas Central 11.2 kwh
- AEP Texas North 11.8 kwh
- Texas-New Mexico Power 12.5 kwh
- Lubbick Power and Light 12.5 kwh
Not sure how this aligns with new datacenter builds but you can buy power cheap currently.
During the dot com days rich tech yuppies were accused of "driving up rents".
But I'm pretty sure rich tech bros didn't bid up rents. They simply could absorb the high rents set by profiteering landlords.
The real culprit was "systematic underproduction" of housing: special interests and politicians colluding to prevent a free market in housing.
It seems the "data center" is the new tech bro being accused of "driving up prices". But what about environmentalists who gutted nuclear and coal production? What about poorly conceived solar or geothermal production. Why do we not have more competition in energy?
I'm pretty sure data centers didn't guide energy policies and if they did they'd want cheap electricity too.
The tech bro and data center bad guy are red herrings to distract from bad public policy.
The article mentions this, but this is an opportunity not a problem.
If a hyperscaler wants to connect a 500MW datacenter, great. That's a huge investment, with various positive externalities. Requiring the builders of the datacenter to also pay for whatever transmission, substations and generation upgrades their demand requires is just not that big of a deal compared to the total size of the investment, which is part of why companies like Microsoft and Anthropic have committed to doing just this.
The article notes that some states are already moving to require this, and more should do the same.
There's a huge opportunity here; the AI buildout is probably the biggest wave of private industrial investment in decades, if not ever, and it comes at a time that we need to accelerate the buildout of our electrical grid. Let's have the hyperscalers pay for it in a way that makes this positive sum for everyone.
As an aside, it's kind of funny that this article reads like it was written by Claude.
Why aren't the data centers footing the bill? If they want to suddenly spawn GW of load out of thin air then they can pay for the needed infrastructure without pushing that burden to other customers. Power companies have demand metering which offsets the cost of ensuring there is capacity available for commercial and industrial customer loads. Something similar should be levied against large single point of use customers like this.
Similar to why do wealthy owners of sports teams make the public pay for their new stadiums or threaten to move the team?
I'd say there's a bit of a difference, and I live in a city that's been dealing with that as a problem over the last couple of years.
If you have a pro sports team in your region, then you have mindshare among a significant chunk of the American public for months out of the year through broadcasts, blogs, articles, and now sports books. If you are, oh, I don't know, Kansas City, it might get you mindshare you wouldn't have otherwise. It's hard to put a price tag on mindshare, so cities think that it's worth it.
If you have a data center, you have... a data center. I don't think "jeeze, I need to go up 29 or 35 to Iowa soon" each time I spin up a new GCP project in us-central1.
Ultimately a lot of states - particularly in the middle of the country - have political power that is held by rural interests, regardless of whether that's where most of the population lives in that state. Missouri is an example of this: two major progressive-leaning cities and two mid-sized college towns that puts about 60-70% of the population as urban, but very rural/conservative state government. That state government is made of people who don't grasp what the hell a data center is, how it's run, and what it brings to the local economy. They think it's a slice of Silicon Valley, but it's not (and honestly, thank God for that), and it won't bring that sort of employment, but they can't suss that out.
>Why aren't the data centers footing the bill?
> Something similar should be levied against large single point of use customers like this.
Already exists and has for decades.
All the "rules" (literal laws in some cases) for how the cost is borne for grid upgrade costs are a complex web.
There's half a dozen different ways you "apply" to connect a large load or generation to the grid. They all come with different rules that make or break things. And all this has multi-year timelines.
Source: Trying to get someone else to develop solar on my property
> Why aren't the data centers footing the bill?
Because they can make the rest of us pay for it and historically there's been little pushback against that. That's changing, but that's why they shove it off on the rest of us.
Socialize costs, privatize gains. If they didn't try to make someone else pay for it, some activist shareholder might attempt to make them try it. Then all of the other players in the space copy the same playbook and now it's practically mandated that if you want to compete in the data center development market, you must make someone else pay for the electricity, lest the returns on such an investment lag behind those who do.
Why should they? If demand for X goes up, and price goes up, the whole point of the price system is to incentivize all users of X to use less and producers of X to make more.
Here's an example where the benefit is obvious:
Say I set up a desalination plant for a city with water shortages. I use a lot of electricity; this drives up electricity prices. But I also sell the more scarce water, lowering the price of water. If I make more selling the water, then to first order I'm helping people overall- they value the water more than the electricity. Perhaps I put other, less efficient desalination plants out of use, or simply other uses of electricity that people value less than the water I provide.
Yeah, the issue with your example is that it's not a desalination plant serving local customers, but rather the entire world via a network. So rural customers have to pay for negative externalities that benefit others geographically distant from them. The benefit is not purely localized. Of course data centers bring jobs etc. I don't think we should ban them... but community level politics exist for a reason -- those that live in a geography should control the land surrounding them.
> Why should they?
Because utilities are regulated monopolies that exist to benefit society. The companies building data-centers are well aware that the system isn't setup to handle a customer that suddenly doubles or triples the electric demand of a whole town over night. They are taking advantage of that until someone steps in.
Electricity production isn't a free market in the vast majority of municipalities. Market systems only work when demand and supply are relatively unconstrained. In this case, supply is strongly constrained.
>they value the water more than the electricity
and yet I have a hard time believing they value the electricity less than the AI.
Let them drink tokens!
Because VCs are pumping fantasy money into the AI bubble and their data centers are pricing regular people out of daily neccessities?
The market isn't some magic tool to get optimal results. It's a way for capital to self-reproduce, not more, not less.
The map in this article just shows density of data centers in each state. They do cite this [newsweek article](https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-electricity-costs-in-ever...) which does include a table that shows residential electricity cost changes by state.
The map is a sad attempt at a choropleth with no legend, no hover or interactivity, and no information whatsoever other than opacity.
Crap article. Why is it filled with LLM-isms?
- "The state-level numbers make that abstract claim concrete"
- "That’s not a market failure. That’s a policy choice."
And the map doesn't seem to link with the information in the article, and states like Hawaii don't link up at all with the points made. Very little data to back it up too, and instead it's linking to its own site. One weird example is when Microsoft is mentioned in regard to covering its own costs, but the link goes to an article about a protest at a Microsoft data center and has nothing to do with the pledge.
A brief skim of a few other articles on the site have similar issues. Is there a way to ignore or down-vote an entire domain?
There is incredible irony in having a giant distracting color swirly and unnecessary AI tab on the right side of the article.
Trash AI article with a useless map. It looks to be a screenshot from an interactive version in the linked Newsweek article[^1] that was mangled by the slop grinder.
The source map shows current electricity costs rather than projected ones. This makes more sense given NY just implemented a moratorium on new data centers (because who uses the Internet in New York anyway /s) but it was dark blue on there.
[1]: https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-electricity-costs-in-ever...
As someone who pays attention to Texas energy rates, I'm gonna call BS on atleast the TX portion of this as rates are at multi year lows. Here are the current rates (1 year contracts):
- Oncor (DFW) 11.6 kwh - Centerpoint (Houston) 10.8 kwh - AEP Texas Central 11.2 kwh - AEP Texas North 11.8 kwh - Texas-New Mexico Power 12.5 kwh - Lubbick Power and Light 12.5 kwh
Not sure how this aligns with new datacenter builds but you can buy power cheap currently.
During the dot com days rich tech yuppies were accused of "driving up rents".
But I'm pretty sure rich tech bros didn't bid up rents. They simply could absorb the high rents set by profiteering landlords.
The real culprit was "systematic underproduction" of housing: special interests and politicians colluding to prevent a free market in housing.
It seems the "data center" is the new tech bro being accused of "driving up prices". But what about environmentalists who gutted nuclear and coal production? What about poorly conceived solar or geothermal production. Why do we not have more competition in energy?
I'm pretty sure data centers didn't guide energy policies and if they did they'd want cheap electricity too.
The tech bro and data center bad guy are red herrings to distract from bad public policy.
Its not even true. Paradoxically they lower power bills.
Can you give an example of where that’s happened? In my region rates are going up and data centers are driving it with expensive upgrades.
Indeed. It's not even really baffling, just load density supporting better economies of scale, translating into cheaper overall end rates.
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The article mentions this, but this is an opportunity not a problem.
If a hyperscaler wants to connect a 500MW datacenter, great. That's a huge investment, with various positive externalities. Requiring the builders of the datacenter to also pay for whatever transmission, substations and generation upgrades their demand requires is just not that big of a deal compared to the total size of the investment, which is part of why companies like Microsoft and Anthropic have committed to doing just this.
The article notes that some states are already moving to require this, and more should do the same.
There's a huge opportunity here; the AI buildout is probably the biggest wave of private industrial investment in decades, if not ever, and it comes at a time that we need to accelerate the buildout of our electrical grid. Let's have the hyperscalers pay for it in a way that makes this positive sum for everyone.
As an aside, it's kind of funny that this article reads like it was written by Claude.