> The ability to register for Signal without a phone number is a frequently requested feature.
I wonder if Signal missed the forest for the trees with a paid registration. I imagine privacy is the primary reason for registering without phone number and yet they ask one to register by giving them money which 99% of the case involves means of payment tied even tighter to one's identity than a phone number.
If this works without proprietary software, it might actually convince me to use Signal.
I already have a VoIP phone number through JMP and would be happy to use it for Signal, but I've read that registration isn't an option on the desktop client, even if I also have a phone number. I looked for a fork or alternate compatible client that allows registration but didn't find one.
So finally a basic feature they should have had at the outset, and as a paid option? I'm left wondering if they just purchase a SIP DID in the background, solely to allocate a phone number lolol.
I can't argue that Signal adoption rate hasn't been fantastic, but the paternalistic "opinionated" crypto has always rubbed me the wrong way. I remember the initial announcement claiming that binding themselves to Google Play was "more secure" because it would lead to more adoption. This is of course patently absurd when Google is one of your primary threat actors.
My "mobile phone" is not the center of my digital existence, and never will be. When I am home I leave it by the door, and use different devices - desktop, laptop, and a different pocket device for photos, afk, messaging, yardwork music, etc. So similarly, this argument that Signal is super sekoor by relying on treacherous hardware enclaves etc just falls super flat. If I'm not able to choose between competing open clients for each of my use cases, then I will always consider your system as a proprietary nuisance that I just need to mitigate my exposure to and cope with otherwise.
Opinionated is good. It means everyone gets the same predictable experience and it's easy to set up. On the opposite end of the spectrum you'd have something like IRC, which nobody uses because it's so hard to get started.
If we're just throwing around straw men, then a good example of "opinionated" is websites repeatedly hassling you with CAPTCHA "security checks". They're really concerned that you suffer their exact intended "experience", rather than being able to use your chosen software tools to view/analyze per your own needs.
Open clients/protocols/ecosystems create individual freedom and choices at the edges. One size does not fit all, even if you market it as an "experience".
We've had a lot of open systems and protocols, SIP, XMPP, Matrix, desktop Linux, Mastodon. It only gains adoption from the technologically savvy and fails to capture a regular user base.
My mother, a 70 year old retired special education teacher, got me and my extended family (21 people) on Signal. I didn't tell her about it, I didn't encourage her to use it, I didn't step her through the process. She doesn't know how to make a folder.
Signal hasn't beaten WhatsApp (which still uses Signal protocol) due to network effects, but it is a great solution for everyday users.
This relies on an implicit argument that a system being closed is required to encourage adoption, but without actually stating a concrete mechanism for that.
One such mechanism I often lament is that closed systems attract investment dollars seeking to capture a market then eventually enshittify, and that investment can be spent on marketing/polish/etc to drive adoption. I don't think this is the dynamic around Signal though, per se.
I can envision a world in which Signal still did everything to promote themselves that they did, while also not binding themselves to mobile phones, Google Play, phone numbers as identity, secure enclaves, etc - where they were just as successful at gaining "normie" adoption, while also having a free foundation. This is where my criticism is coming from.
Of course price is unknown, because it doesn’t matter, what matters is linking your real identity to signal. As I mentioned before, many times, that the main purpose of the phone requirement isn’t to fight “spam”, is to fight privacy and always have the option to expose the real person behind that account whenever needed. Most countries around the world require an ID to be issued a new phone number, rest will require payment of any sort to activate it, not to mention the ability to accurately track someone’s location only knowing their phone number, which is why it’s still used almost anywhere online as an ID, sometimes as “2FA” too, is to find you with little recourses whenever needed, and Canada now are having a unified single “login portal” for anything government wise, and as you guessed, the 2FA is only a phone number!
So Signal will try to fool some privacy conscious people with the “no phone number required anymore, we are private, woohoo!!” While linking your whole payment and KYC to that account. Hard pass.
> The ability to register for Signal without a phone number is a frequently requested feature.
I wonder if Signal missed the forest for the trees with a paid registration. I imagine privacy is the primary reason for registering without phone number and yet they ask one to register by giving them money which 99% of the case involves means of payment tied even tighter to one's identity than a phone number.
It might be done so that it only gives you a "ticket" to create an account, but they will not know what account was created.
If this works without proprietary software, it might actually convince me to use Signal.
I already have a VoIP phone number through JMP and would be happy to use it for Signal, but I've read that registration isn't an option on the desktop client, even if I also have a phone number. I looked for a fork or alternate compatible client that allows registration but didn't find one.
Maybe I'd pay $2 for this.
Will they accept Monero?
So finally a basic feature they should have had at the outset, and as a paid option? I'm left wondering if they just purchase a SIP DID in the background, solely to allocate a phone number lolol.
I can't argue that Signal adoption rate hasn't been fantastic, but the paternalistic "opinionated" crypto has always rubbed me the wrong way. I remember the initial announcement claiming that binding themselves to Google Play was "more secure" because it would lead to more adoption. This is of course patently absurd when Google is one of your primary threat actors.
My "mobile phone" is not the center of my digital existence, and never will be. When I am home I leave it by the door, and use different devices - desktop, laptop, and a different pocket device for photos, afk, messaging, yardwork music, etc. So similarly, this argument that Signal is super sekoor by relying on treacherous hardware enclaves etc just falls super flat. If I'm not able to choose between competing open clients for each of my use cases, then I will always consider your system as a proprietary nuisance that I just need to mitigate my exposure to and cope with otherwise.
Opinionated is good. It means everyone gets the same predictable experience and it's easy to set up. On the opposite end of the spectrum you'd have something like IRC, which nobody uses because it's so hard to get started.
If we're just throwing around straw men, then a good example of "opinionated" is websites repeatedly hassling you with CAPTCHA "security checks". They're really concerned that you suffer their exact intended "experience", rather than being able to use your chosen software tools to view/analyze per your own needs.
Open clients/protocols/ecosystems create individual freedom and choices at the edges. One size does not fit all, even if you market it as an "experience".
We've had a lot of open systems and protocols, SIP, XMPP, Matrix, desktop Linux, Mastodon. It only gains adoption from the technologically savvy and fails to capture a regular user base.
My mother, a 70 year old retired special education teacher, got me and my extended family (21 people) on Signal. I didn't tell her about it, I didn't encourage her to use it, I didn't step her through the process. She doesn't know how to make a folder.
Signal hasn't beaten WhatsApp (which still uses Signal protocol) due to network effects, but it is a great solution for everyday users.
This relies on an implicit argument that a system being closed is required to encourage adoption, but without actually stating a concrete mechanism for that.
One such mechanism I often lament is that closed systems attract investment dollars seeking to capture a market then eventually enshittify, and that investment can be spent on marketing/polish/etc to drive adoption. I don't think this is the dynamic around Signal though, per se.
I can envision a world in which Signal still did everything to promote themselves that they did, while also not binding themselves to mobile phones, Google Play, phone numbers as identity, secure enclaves, etc - where they were just as successful at gaining "normie" adoption, while also having a free foundation. This is where my criticism is coming from.
> Signal Login, one-time payment, price unknown
Of course price is unknown, because it doesn’t matter, what matters is linking your real identity to signal. As I mentioned before, many times, that the main purpose of the phone requirement isn’t to fight “spam”, is to fight privacy and always have the option to expose the real person behind that account whenever needed. Most countries around the world require an ID to be issued a new phone number, rest will require payment of any sort to activate it, not to mention the ability to accurately track someone’s location only knowing their phone number, which is why it’s still used almost anywhere online as an ID, sometimes as “2FA” too, is to find you with little recourses whenever needed, and Canada now are having a unified single “login portal” for anything government wise, and as you guessed, the 2FA is only a phone number!
So Signal will try to fool some privacy conscious people with the “no phone number required anymore, we are private, woohoo!!” While linking your whole payment and KYC to that account. Hard pass.