This Substack post by a journalist touring through Wisconsin and Michigan has been pretty interesting, at least for getting a new perspective on why there's some local opposition to data centers: https://jasmi.news/p/no-data-centers-in-my-backyard
I think it's pretty clear that most of the discussion around AI is just generally bullshit.
I've seen some articles on some data centres that were very loud because of gas turbines, but realistically, what percentage is that? Surely, I would assume it must be a minority, and it just seems like the state failing to actually follow reasonable laws around noise levels.
The US getting better power infrastructure and more energy seems like a long-term good thing. They've underinvested in it for a long time.
"A bit fake"? This is a massive understatement. It's a battle of glib, easily debunkable falsehoods between parties with huge budgets and no apparent shame — mostly the US tech sector (arguing for) vs. the CCP (against).
If you look at the outlandish claims of either side in any detail, it's hard to imagine anyone would fall for them. But here we are.
If you think outrage at data centers is merely a CCP plot, then you're going to be in for a bad time. Is China doing something similar to what Russia did during Black Lives Matter, promoting real and fake US accounts to stoke domestic discord? I'm sure. But did that mean there weren't real issues around policing and race in America? Of course not.
Same here. Techies like to say that data centers have always existed, so people must not be objecting to data centers, it must be something else, something nefarious. People don't object to the floors AWS has in some random office building that looks like every other building. Because those were built with planning by corporations usually seeking their own long-term sustainable self interest. If there were tax breaks given, it was usually during periods of economic growth.
Those aren't the kind of datacenters being pumped out and dropped onto communities today in this mad rush to win the new missile race with the new USSR. People are broke, we're in stagflation, none of these datacenters are bringing much of anything of value uniquely to the people who have to deal with their externalities. Even when they bring their own energy to not overload the grid and raise prices, it's usually an onsite literal jet engine powered by natural gas that screams as loud as, well, ever lived by an airport? Now imagine a low-flying plane exactly over your house, 24/7, forever.
I've had a "datacenter" in my apartment or house for decades. Usually it has been a minitower that runs pretty silently in a closet. I got my hands on a used rackserver with 128GB of DDR4 RAM, you know the kind that have fans as loud as a jet engine. Guess who didn't realize exactly how loud those are, even if they're in a closed closet? Or how much heat they generate, especially in the summer? Or exactly how much a sustained 500 watt load costs in California and how that will bump us over our baseline and into extra charges territory?
Yeah, I did to my family exactly what the data centers people are protesting did to those communities. Had I bought a Mac Studio (with even more compute) that sits in a cabinet, my wife would not have vetoed my data center. But I wanted to cut costs and didn't even think about the externalities, just about what I could do what that sweet sweet 128GB of DDR4.
I think ordinary US citizens have reasons to be wary of data centers in general. Because of the prevailing backlash on tech today, and concerns about fascism and surveillance, and harmful social media. There are many reasons for everyday Americans to hate on DCs without foreign influence telling them that they should.
As I've pointed out, time and time again, DCs are nothing new. DCs were, in previous eras, disguised and hidden in machine rooms and wiring closets in every single corporate HQ in every office park in all parts of our nation. There were lots of machine rooms when most services were on-prem and company-hosted.
The DC phenomenon is a consolidation and expansion of a prior phenomenon that was not so visible and rather difficult to fight, if you wanted to. Because every corporation could keep those machine rooms confidential, and they had a lot of leeway in what could be done with their owned or leased properties.
But now, as DCs pop up and externalize these machine rooms, they expose them directly to the public. Sometimes literally in their backyard. So they make noise, they don't create jobs, they suck resources, they don't pay a lot of taxes or even benefit from tax exemptions! There is very little to like, from an ordinary citizen's perspective. The tech sector can argue all they want. They're cooked, for now. Everything will be an uphill battle.
I don't think they were so much disguised as it was distributed compute. You can fantasize about taking 1000s of home solar installations off the grid at once, but a few datacenters at once and Bob's your uncle.
just gonna put this out there: ignorance is a global phenomenon, and if you act like someone making others aware is "fake" then you're just not going to survive reality, especially when billionaires have much greater reach than anyone else.
The thing is it's not the data centers that are actually the issue. It's the power.
Gas turbines are loud! And look at the news--many incidents of it being even louder than they had permits for.
And the reality is politicians never make new development bear the utility infrastructure cost of the development. Development ends up raising costs for the people already living there.
At this point anything that pours sand to the gears of "AI " industry is good, true or not. The other side is also not bothered by their talking points being real.
Only like this we can stop this hype insanity, prevent more damae and maybe even find some useful aspects hidden behind the endless hype.
This Substack post by a journalist touring through Wisconsin and Michigan has been pretty interesting, at least for getting a new perspective on why there's some local opposition to data centers: https://jasmi.news/p/no-data-centers-in-my-backyard
https://archive.is/0tDCq
I think it's pretty clear that most of the discussion around AI is just generally bullshit.
I've seen some articles on some data centres that were very loud because of gas turbines, but realistically, what percentage is that? Surely, I would assume it must be a minority, and it just seems like the state failing to actually follow reasonable laws around noise levels.
The US getting better power infrastructure and more energy seems like a long-term good thing. They've underinvested in it for a long time.
"A bit fake"? This is a massive understatement. It's a battle of glib, easily debunkable falsehoods between parties with huge budgets and no apparent shame — mostly the US tech sector (arguing for) vs. the CCP (against).
If you look at the outlandish claims of either side in any detail, it's hard to imagine anyone would fall for them. But here we are.
If you think outrage at data centers is merely a CCP plot, then you're going to be in for a bad time. Is China doing something similar to what Russia did during Black Lives Matter, promoting real and fake US accounts to stoke domestic discord? I'm sure. But did that mean there weren't real issues around policing and race in America? Of course not.
Same here. Techies like to say that data centers have always existed, so people must not be objecting to data centers, it must be something else, something nefarious. People don't object to the floors AWS has in some random office building that looks like every other building. Because those were built with planning by corporations usually seeking their own long-term sustainable self interest. If there were tax breaks given, it was usually during periods of economic growth.
Those aren't the kind of datacenters being pumped out and dropped onto communities today in this mad rush to win the new missile race with the new USSR. People are broke, we're in stagflation, none of these datacenters are bringing much of anything of value uniquely to the people who have to deal with their externalities. Even when they bring their own energy to not overload the grid and raise prices, it's usually an onsite literal jet engine powered by natural gas that screams as loud as, well, ever lived by an airport? Now imagine a low-flying plane exactly over your house, 24/7, forever.
I've had a "datacenter" in my apartment or house for decades. Usually it has been a minitower that runs pretty silently in a closet. I got my hands on a used rackserver with 128GB of DDR4 RAM, you know the kind that have fans as loud as a jet engine. Guess who didn't realize exactly how loud those are, even if they're in a closed closet? Or how much heat they generate, especially in the summer? Or exactly how much a sustained 500 watt load costs in California and how that will bump us over our baseline and into extra charges territory?
Yeah, I did to my family exactly what the data centers people are protesting did to those communities. Had I bought a Mac Studio (with even more compute) that sits in a cabinet, my wife would not have vetoed my data center. But I wanted to cut costs and didn't even think about the externalities, just about what I could do what that sweet sweet 128GB of DDR4.
Clearly not biased when you say the opposition is the CCP. Good lord.
I think ordinary US citizens have reasons to be wary of data centers in general. Because of the prevailing backlash on tech today, and concerns about fascism and surveillance, and harmful social media. There are many reasons for everyday Americans to hate on DCs without foreign influence telling them that they should.
As I've pointed out, time and time again, DCs are nothing new. DCs were, in previous eras, disguised and hidden in machine rooms and wiring closets in every single corporate HQ in every office park in all parts of our nation. There were lots of machine rooms when most services were on-prem and company-hosted.
The DC phenomenon is a consolidation and expansion of a prior phenomenon that was not so visible and rather difficult to fight, if you wanted to. Because every corporation could keep those machine rooms confidential, and they had a lot of leeway in what could be done with their owned or leased properties.
But now, as DCs pop up and externalize these machine rooms, they expose them directly to the public. Sometimes literally in their backyard. So they make noise, they don't create jobs, they suck resources, they don't pay a lot of taxes or even benefit from tax exemptions! There is very little to like, from an ordinary citizen's perspective. The tech sector can argue all they want. They're cooked, for now. Everything will be an uphill battle.
I don't think they were so much disguised as it was distributed compute. You can fantasize about taking 1000s of home solar installations off the grid at once, but a few datacenters at once and Bob's your uncle.
just gonna put this out there: ignorance is a global phenomenon, and if you act like someone making others aware is "fake" then you're just not going to survive reality, especially when billionaires have much greater reach than anyone else.
It's just NIMBYism, which itself is usually justified through fake science.
There's honest to goodness people who think we shouldn't disturb space rocks, because they will no longer be in their pristine natural state.
It isn't NIMBY.
The thing is it's not the data centers that are actually the issue. It's the power.
Gas turbines are loud! And look at the news--many incidents of it being even louder than they had permits for.
And the reality is politicians never make new development bear the utility infrastructure cost of the development. Development ends up raising costs for the people already living there.
At this point anything that pours sand to the gears of "AI " industry is good, true or not. The other side is also not bothered by their talking points being real.
Only like this we can stop this hype insanity, prevent more damae and maybe even find some useful aspects hidden behind the endless hype.