Seems cool, and makes sense, but does seem like it's mostly going to be annoying.
It's available at a limited number of airports, and you have to apply 1-3 days in advance each time. Also could be annoying to travellers who have to compete with you for line, seat, or bathroom space.
But maybe more revenue from visitors means better staffing and resources for airports!
It's obnoxious enough to go through security and meet someone at their gate that for major airports, it was only done for picking up kids or old folks. It's not going to move the needle on how crowded it feels.
for smaller airports, it won't matter, my local airport has four gates, the terminal is maybe 300 feet end to end, so everyone currently waits outside of security, but it's like 10-20 folks. the few that make it to the gate won't matter at all.
I read somewhere that Pittsburgh airport was trying to do something like this cause the stores gateside were not available anywhere else.
In any case, like with airport lounges, it seems like “everyone” has some form of credit card that gives them Precheck/Global Entry for free, further dividing the commercial air experience.
I just had to pay to renew my TSA PreCheck. Because why? They already know my threat risk (zero), and in paying them again nothing changed except they took more money from me.
Allegedly there's an actual re-evaluation during the renewal. For example if you start showing up on terrorist watchlists your next renewal might not go through.
I think this is kinda true because my wife was involved in a customs incident and then was unable to renew pre check for a bunch of years, thought that was never given as a reason.
Why should the re-evaluation happen just at renewal? I'm assuming that whatever threat assessment systems they use are updating as relevant data comes in.
They are tracking each and every one of us already, it's just a scam. Of course the bigger scam is TSA as a whole -- security theater at $11B per year.
Of course none of this matters for the elite because they just go to their private jets and don't have to deal with any of the indignities we human cattle go through.
She innocently brought something from a country where it was legal to a country where it wasn't. It wasn't an obvious illegal thing and she voluntarily told customs that she was bringing it.
Leaving aside that the vast majority of people on such lists are nothing of the sort, your presence on them is evaluated if not every time you book a flight, but every time you check in for one.
Otherwise that's a pretty gaping loophole. "Get Precheck and then go to terrorist training camp, you're safe for a few years".
(All of this is notwithstanding the fact that all of this is absolute garbage security theater, and I say that as someone with Pre and Clear.
Instead of rolling back the ineffective and draconian security measures to pre-2001, they simply decided to monetize it. That tracks for this administration.
This new service is provided free to people who already have TSA Precheck. What I would like to know is if it's also available to those who have Global Entry. I let my TSA Precheck lapse after getting Global Entry because I saw no benefit to keeping it.
How, exactly, is it this administration's fault? They didn't create Precheck (which dates back to the Obama admin iirc), and this new facet of Precheck is explicitly stated to not cost extra. So I don't see how you can possibly blame the current administration for monetizing the security regime. At most they are continuing a bad policy that others started.
And to be clear, I think that Precheck is a stupid-ass program. If the security measures are truly necessary, then you shouldn't exempt anyone from them. And if they aren't necessary, then they should be abolished. Precheck always struck me as a tacit admission that the TSA is security theater while trying to make some extra money for the government. But again, that isn't some kind of sin unique to the Trump admin the way you implied.
But, if you don’t accept that, and believe that more physical passenger screening is important, adjusting the level of screening based on a per-passenger threat assessment seems reasonable.
Fun fact: It's expressly illegal to move around the cabin when the seatbelt sign is on while taxiing, but not when in the air.
Turbulence is probably the leading cause of injuries and deaths from modern air travel, but taxiing incidents at extremely rare and pretty much never result in injuries.
Yesterday, I saw an interesting Lufthansa training film from the 1970s explaining how aircraft crews should respond to hijacking. (In the early 1970s, hijackings occurred weekly.) Most of the recommendations from security experts turned out to be exactly wrong for 9/11: Don't attempt anything against the hijackers. Do everything the hijackers demand. Passengers should follow the instructions of the hijackers and should not try to be heros. On the other hand, they described locked cabin doors with TV monitors.
You mean you used to be able to just send a bag without flying yourself, and have someone else pick it up at the destination airport? Was this something that people did intentionally or did it happen accidentally?
I've never heard of this happening, and I'm skeptical. I fly a decent amount and my luggage gets misplaced likely in the low percents (more than 1%, less than 5%). I struggle to believe they'll be aware enough to unload a full cargo compartment.
But I could be wrong. Maybe it's just rare enough that I haven't run into it. I would expect it would delay the flight by a noticeable amount. And it would be fairly obvious that they're unloading luggage and then reloading it. It's not like they can just send someone in to climb around and find it. They pack them in tight.
Yeah, I meant doing that intentionally to send something to someone else for the cost of flight without having to wait days for shipping. Could you even get to the baggage claim area of an airport pre-9/11 without having flown into it?
> I meant doing that intentionally to send something to someone else
Someone told me they'd done that in the 70s. In their case, they were planning to travel and bring along stuff that belonged to a friend at their destination. At the last minute, they couldn't make the trip and they decided the easiest solution was to check the bags and scurry out of the airport. They were worried the airline would deny a refund, but they got their money back just fine.
Baggage claim was no problem. Anybody could (and mostly still can) access it. I remember a time where they kind of corralled it all in and checked your bag tag and stub to make sure you weren't wandering off with someone else's luggage. That was a chaotic, ineffective, and short-lived effort.
How is ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers not also theater? Airlines openly sell unattended cargo space on passenger flights and it's screened the same way as checked luggage.
Do you get to specify the plane it goes on? Can you purchase it untraceable, the way you can you a plane ticket with a prepaid card, check in and check luggage without any ID?
You can constrain the plane it goes on because there's only a small number of flights between city pairs with a given carrier.
You also can't buy a plane ticket for an anonymous person. It has to be for a legal person, which the government is informed of before the flight takes place. That ID is attached to the luggage when it's checked, which is how they can implement bag retrieval when the passenger doesn't board. I'm sure there's an airline somewhere out there accepting checked bags without tickets or ID, but it's not supposed to be allowed.
For air cargo, someone provides an ID, but it's usually the shipper or some other person with no real involvement beyond working in the supply chain. There's a chain of check boxes that says "I received this from an entity I have a legitimate business relationship with" and that's good enough in practice.
I didn’t blame the administration for starting Pre-Check: I’m faulting them for not ending it, instead adding another feature to it. The new gate access is free - for TSA Pre-Check enrollees. Meaning this will increase demand for the service. They could have done the population a (rare) solid and found a way to phase out the security theater.
> they simply decided to monetize it. That tracks for this administration.
But this administration didn't cause the monetization. I am fine with criticizing them for not ending the TSA - I too think they should end it. But your post implied some kind of corruption angle, one that is specifically due to this administration. And I don't think that criticism holds true. One must criticize them for only the things they've actually done, imo.
Seems cool, and makes sense, but does seem like it's mostly going to be annoying.
It's available at a limited number of airports, and you have to apply 1-3 days in advance each time. Also could be annoying to travellers who have to compete with you for line, seat, or bathroom space.
But maybe more revenue from visitors means better staffing and resources for airports!
This is great.
But airports are super busy and crowded these days. Imagine all the extra people if everyone took advantage of this
I don’t remember how it looked back in the day when you didn’t need Gateside.
It's obnoxious enough to go through security and meet someone at their gate that for major airports, it was only done for picking up kids or old folks. It's not going to move the needle on how crowded it feels.
for smaller airports, it won't matter, my local airport has four gates, the terminal is maybe 300 feet end to end, so everyone currently waits outside of security, but it's like 10-20 folks. the few that make it to the gate won't matter at all.
Yea I was thinking the major airports like Atlanta, Orlando, Denver, etc that are usually slammed
We will be happy to scan your face, x-ray your belongings, and add your latest known location to our database — no extra charge!
I read somewhere that Pittsburgh airport was trying to do something like this cause the stores gateside were not available anywhere else.
In any case, like with airport lounges, it seems like “everyone” has some form of credit card that gives them Precheck/Global Entry for free, further dividing the commercial air experience.
TUL (and probably plenty others) has free visitor passes, no precheck required
This is funny to see because this is exactly how it was before 9/11.
It's still worse; back then you didn't need to register at least a day in advance, and you didn't need a KTN.
Downside: Finding a seat at an already crowded gate just got harder.
Upside: loved ones get to hang out with loved ones for longer.
Getting back to some of what we had before [redacted] came to America.
I just had to pay to renew my TSA PreCheck. Because why? They already know my threat risk (zero), and in paying them again nothing changed except they took more money from me.
Allegedly there's an actual re-evaluation during the renewal. For example if you start showing up on terrorist watchlists your next renewal might not go through.
I think this is kinda true because my wife was involved in a customs incident and then was unable to renew pre check for a bunch of years, thought that was never given as a reason.
Of course, them doing it like that makes the security theater even more obvious, since they don't bother doing anything about it until renewal time.
Why should the re-evaluation happen just at renewal? I'm assuming that whatever threat assessment systems they use are updating as relevant data comes in.
They are tracking each and every one of us already, it's just a scam. Of course the bigger scam is TSA as a whole -- security theater at $11B per year.
Of course none of this matters for the elite because they just go to their private jets and don't have to deal with any of the indignities we human cattle go through.
Mind sharing what the incident was? Carrying too many valuables?
She innocently brought something from a country where it was legal to a country where it wasn't. It wasn't an obvious illegal thing and she voluntarily told customs that she was bringing it.
smuggling cheese and dried sausage?
Leaving aside that the vast majority of people on such lists are nothing of the sort, your presence on them is evaluated if not every time you book a flight, but every time you check in for one.
Otherwise that's a pretty gaping loophole. "Get Precheck and then go to terrorist training camp, you're safe for a few years".
(All of this is notwithstanding the fact that all of this is absolute garbage security theater, and I say that as someone with Pre and Clear.
Just like being "verified" is a monthly subscription on twitter/meta too. They are not verifying you each month.
In before we have to start renewing our birth certificates each year too.
You have to book it ahead of time?! What goober designed a system like this?
I imagine lack of a same day booking option makes this a nonstarter for most
Instead of rolling back the ineffective and draconian security measures to pre-2001, they simply decided to monetize it. That tracks for this administration.
This new service is provided free to people who already have TSA Precheck. What I would like to know is if it's also available to those who have Global Entry. I let my TSA Precheck lapse after getting Global Entry because I saw no benefit to keeping it.
It is. With Global Entry, you have a KTN.
> Who is Eligible
> TSA PreCheck members and those with Known Traveler Numbers (KTNs).
It says “to those with Known Traveler Numbers”
It was monetized quite a while back.
It's free?
As long as you have TSA precheck or a known traveler number, which costs money.
Lots of people get TKN's with their work, for free.
Someone is paying for it, which is what we're arguing about.
> Someone is paying for it, which is what we're arguing about.
Yeah, passengers without TSA Precheck are paying for it.
Your flight ticket already includes the TSA and airport fees.
TSA Pre-Check itself has an admin fee of $150 IIRC
How, exactly, is it this administration's fault? They didn't create Precheck (which dates back to the Obama admin iirc), and this new facet of Precheck is explicitly stated to not cost extra. So I don't see how you can possibly blame the current administration for monetizing the security regime. At most they are continuing a bad policy that others started.
And to be clear, I think that Precheck is a stupid-ass program. If the security measures are truly necessary, then you shouldn't exempt anyone from them. And if they aren't necessary, then they should be abolished. Precheck always struck me as a tacit admission that the TSA is security theater while trying to make some extra money for the government. But again, that isn't some kind of sin unique to the Trump admin the way you implied.
All of the post 9-11 measures other then:
- securing the cockpit
- training staff to resist hijacking
- ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers
Are worthless theater.
But, if you don’t accept that, and believe that more physical passenger screening is important, adjusting the level of screening based on a per-passenger threat assessment seems reasonable.
I should add, two other items that I think were added in this time period, which are not security related, but IMO are good are:
- seriously, you need to follow the instructions of the staff on board
- don't get (very) drunk before or after boarding, don't bring and drink your own alcohol
Fun fact: It's expressly illegal to move around the cabin when the seatbelt sign is on while taxiing, but not when in the air.
Turbulence is probably the leading cause of injuries and deaths from modern air travel, but taxiing incidents at extremely rare and pretty much never result in injuries.
Yesterday, I saw an interesting Lufthansa training film from the 1970s explaining how aircraft crews should respond to hijacking. (In the early 1970s, hijackings occurred weekly.) Most of the recommendations from security experts turned out to be exactly wrong for 9/11: Don't attempt anything against the hijackers. Do everything the hijackers demand. Passengers should follow the instructions of the hijackers and should not try to be heros. On the other hand, they described locked cabin doors with TV monitors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pzIbUW8jIw
> ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers
You mean you used to be able to just send a bag without flying yourself, and have someone else pick it up at the destination airport? Was this something that people did intentionally or did it happen accidentally?
You could check in, check your bags, and then walk out. They would not remove the bag from the plane.
Isn't that the case today? They're loading the baggage while people board and they don't hold the bag until you get your ticket scanned in.
I've always had the impression that they don't start loading the bags until after the gate is closed.
If the owner of a bag does not board the bag is removed.
I've never heard of this happening, and I'm skeptical. I fly a decent amount and my luggage gets misplaced likely in the low percents (more than 1%, less than 5%). I struggle to believe they'll be aware enough to unload a full cargo compartment.
But I could be wrong. Maybe it's just rare enough that I haven't run into it. I would expect it would delay the flight by a noticeable amount. And it would be fairly obvious that they're unloading luggage and then reloading it. It's not like they can just send someone in to climb around and find it. They pack them in tight.
Yeah, I meant doing that intentionally to send something to someone else for the cost of flight without having to wait days for shipping. Could you even get to the baggage claim area of an airport pre-9/11 without having flown into it?
> I meant doing that intentionally to send something to someone else
Someone told me they'd done that in the 70s. In their case, they were planning to travel and bring along stuff that belonged to a friend at their destination. At the last minute, they couldn't make the trip and they decided the easiest solution was to check the bags and scurry out of the airport. They were worried the airline would deny a refund, but they got their money back just fine.
Baggage claim was no problem. Anybody could (and mostly still can) access it. I remember a time where they kind of corralled it all in and checked your bag tag and stub to make sure you weren't wandering off with someone else's luggage. That was a chaotic, ineffective, and short-lived effort.
FWIW your bags may still occasionally travel without you (but you still have to board A flight)
> FWIW your bags may still occasionally travel without you (but you still have to board A flight)
This is false.
If you check into the airport early (4+ hours) your bag may go on an earlier flight without you.
And you can decide not to board your original flight.
How is ensuring checked bags have boarded passengers not also theater? Airlines openly sell unattended cargo space on passenger flights and it's screened the same way as checked luggage.
Do you get to specify the plane it goes on? Can you purchase it untraceable, the way you can you a plane ticket with a prepaid card, check in and check luggage without any ID?
You can constrain the plane it goes on because there's only a small number of flights between city pairs with a given carrier.
You also can't buy a plane ticket for an anonymous person. It has to be for a legal person, which the government is informed of before the flight takes place. That ID is attached to the luggage when it's checked, which is how they can implement bag retrieval when the passenger doesn't board. I'm sure there's an airline somewhere out there accepting checked bags without tickets or ID, but it's not supposed to be allowed.
For air cargo, someone provides an ID, but it's usually the shipper or some other person with no real involvement beyond working in the supply chain. There's a chain of check boxes that says "I received this from an entity I have a legitimate business relationship with" and that's good enough in practice.
No selective HUMINT is worthwhile?
I'm not sure what you mean
I didn’t blame the administration for starting Pre-Check: I’m faulting them for not ending it, instead adding another feature to it. The new gate access is free - for TSA Pre-Check enrollees. Meaning this will increase demand for the service. They could have done the population a (rare) solid and found a way to phase out the security theater.
You said:
> they simply decided to monetize it. That tracks for this administration.
But this administration didn't cause the monetization. I am fine with criticizing them for not ending the TSA - I too think they should end it. But your post implied some kind of corruption angle, one that is specifically due to this administration. And I don't think that criticism holds true. One must criticize them for only the things they've actually done, imo.
We don’t live in a pre-9/11 world. There’s no going back to that. If well implemented This seems a reasonable compromise.