> We discovered that Moonshot AI, the company that produces the Kimi family of models, silently forwarded customer requests to Claude, instead of processing them using Kimi. Moonshot then displayed Claude’s responses to users. These users thought they were using a Kimi model, but received responses from Claude instead.
> DeepSeek also silently relayed exchanges to Claude without informing DeepSeek customers.
> MiniMax built its own proxy network service through a shell company. This shell company has no obvious links to MiniMax and does not disclose its relationship to its parent company. This shell proxy network service only offers access to models developed by Anthropic and OpenAI. The service does not offer access to any Chinese models, including Minimax’s own.
DeepSeek, minimax and so on have razer thin margins but unlike openai and Anthropic they are actually making some profit. Doing this doesn't make any financial sense.
Maybe Anthropic is confusing Chinese AI providers with token resellers using the same alibaba infrastructure? Or maybe something like openrouter was switching between operators depending on price/demand/availability?
Also, how can Anthropic have such accurate information about state actors and cybercriminals? This is the same company that hacked itself and realised that first months later..
I’ve seen the supposed Kimi thinking output yap about Anthropic’s guidelines and whatnot on many occasions - could also be the result of distillation, but also that straight up being Claude’s output.
To be honest I've also gotten Kimi to do an okay proof of concept for SQLi though mostly in a more defensive role, like "Let's see how big of a problem this is", while Claude complained about CVP on the same task.
My understanding of what Anthropic are saying about this is that the labs in question aren't forwarding things to Claude to make money nor even to look better to the customers whose queries they forward to Claude but to get access to conversations between real users and Claude, which they can then use to help train their own models.
(I do not guarantee that I'm understanding right, and still less do I guarantee that what Anthropic say is actually true.)
For the first time ever, and that for just a short while. And after significant price hikes that has had their biggeat customers looking for alternatives.
Anthropic should not be the moral arbitrator of which research should and shouldn't be allowed. They even think just writing a grant itself of research they don't like needs to be stopped.
Conventional Weapons
-We identified a cell of threat actors based in northern Yemen
-We identified a China-based threat actor who used Claude
-We identified likely freelance Russia-based threat actors
-We identified a China-based actor who used Claude’s chat
-In this case, a Russia-based actor used Claude
-We identified a China-based threat actor who used Claude
Biological misuse
We are withholding the names of research institutions, the countries wherein the activity took place, and the specific biological agents or research techniques involved. The individuals implicated in these case studies are working scientists. We do not assert that they intended harm, and identifying them or their labs could expose them to harm.
For all we know, the boxes connecting to Claude from Yemen, Russia, and China could have been ORBs of actors from entirely different states. Attribution is non-trivial
"Look daddy government, all these bad guys are doing bad things and we stopped them. You should regulate AI in the US so that companies can't use open source models or buy from China."
The previous discussion shows no obvious signs to me of being flagged, but perhaps it did at some earlier point. What is your evidence that they flagged it, please?
(And by "they" do you mean Anthropic? How would they have the ability to do that?)
It’s to the point I don’t even read Anthropic’s marketing blog anymore lol. The ai psychosis is just so real when people take these fluff blog posts which never have evidence or reproducibility and treat them like gospel
> We discovered that Moonshot AI, the company that produces the Kimi family of models, silently forwarded customer requests to Claude, instead of processing them using Kimi. Moonshot then displayed Claude’s responses to users. These users thought they were using a Kimi model, but received responses from Claude instead.
> DeepSeek also silently relayed exchanges to Claude without informing DeepSeek customers.
> MiniMax built its own proxy network service through a shell company. This shell company has no obvious links to MiniMax and does not disclose its relationship to its parent company. This shell proxy network service only offers access to models developed by Anthropic and OpenAI. The service does not offer access to any Chinese models, including Minimax’s own.
DeepSeek, minimax and so on have razer thin margins but unlike openai and Anthropic they are actually making some profit. Doing this doesn't make any financial sense.
Maybe Anthropic is confusing Chinese AI providers with token resellers using the same alibaba infrastructure? Or maybe something like openrouter was switching between operators depending on price/demand/availability?
Also, how can Anthropic have such accurate information about state actors and cybercriminals? This is the same company that hacked itself and realised that first months later..
I’ve seen the supposed Kimi thinking output yap about Anthropic’s guidelines and whatnot on many occasions - could also be the result of distillation, but also that straight up being Claude’s output.
To be honest I've also gotten Kimi to do an okay proof of concept for SQLi though mostly in a more defensive role, like "Let's see how big of a problem this is", while Claude complained about CVP on the same task.
My understanding of what Anthropic are saying about this is that the labs in question aren't forwarding things to Claude to make money nor even to look better to the customers whose queries they forward to Claude but to get access to conversations between real users and Claude, which they can then use to help train their own models.
(I do not guarantee that I'm understanding right, and still less do I guarantee that what Anthropic say is actually true.)
Anthropic is profitable now
>https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmarkman/2026/08/17/anthropic...
For the first time ever, and that for just a short while. And after significant price hikes that has had their biggeat customers looking for alternatives.
You do this to distill a model.
You can submit your users' questions async too, but if you do it sync, then you can also RLHF on the users' behavior after the output.
> Illicit distillation
Really... what makes it illicit?
Felony contempt of business model.
Anthropic should not be the moral arbitrator of which research should and shouldn't be allowed. They even think just writing a grant itself of research they don't like needs to be stopped.
Quite the double standard here...
For all we know, the boxes connecting to Claude from Yemen, Russia, and China could have been ORBs of actors from entirely different states. Attribution is non-trivial
How is this a double standard?
A cell of actors in northern Yemen building guided rockets was not working on a PhD dissertation. You are allowed to use common sense sometimes.
I get the common sense, but is it misuse or not, and hiding the country makes it really suspicious at least to me.
This is just an advertorial. "Our AI is so powerful that Bad Guys could actually use it for real Bad Guy Work!"
I mean, yes any AI of sufficient intelligence and range of data will have this capability.
And yes, it makes the future really messy and all the nice little lines we've drawn on paper that make sense stop making sense.
"Look daddy government, all these bad guys are doing bad things and we stopped them. You should regulate AI in the US so that companies can't use open source models or buy from China."
The future is basically something between: AGI/ASI will kill us all and a privacy nightmare.
[delayed]
Welcome to cyberpunk.
Hopefully some sort of Delamain will show up and start replacing these exquisitely paid CEOs was well.
Previous discussion didn't go their way, so they flagged it:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49646988
This apparently is the backup submission.
The previous discussion shows no obvious signs to me of being flagged, but perhaps it did at some earlier point. What is your evidence that they flagged it, please?
(And by "they" do you mean Anthropic? How would they have the ability to do that?)
God the astroturfing from these companies is so fucking pathetic, these VC parasites really are a blight on humanity
If you agree about VCs being a blight upon humanity, I made https://novc.fyi to encourage and support founders building without VC.
they say on Hacker News
Wow they seem to have a really detailed understanding of the the threat actor.
It’s to the point I don’t even read Anthropic’s marketing blog anymore lol. The ai psychosis is just so real when people take these fluff blog posts which never have evidence or reproducibility and treat them like gospel
"Moonshot serves Claude instead of Kimi and collects exchanges for model training"
"DeepSeek serves Claude instead of its own models and collects exchanges for model training"
Obviously. This is how they were able to score so high in benchmarks.
Generated SEO slop is the misuse of AI. Very unlikely to find any guardrails to stop that kind of thing.