It’s astonishing how America has been led to this point where a certified con artist frauds is in charge of the world empire of lies. The only real silver lining seems to be that he is ending his vile and pathetic life of fraud and criminality and abuse by exposing his putrid character as he is unraveling America in a likely irreversible way.
President Genocidal Rapist Pederast Rug Pull, the last President of the fake American empire of lies, the emperor with no clothes, exposing his vile and disgusting true self.
Is really rather epic, like a story one would imagine has been made up about a historical figure if we hadn’t witnessed it all unfold in real time.
I would love to hear from HN republicans why they think this amount of self enrichment and corruption is okay.
Add to this all the paid-for pardons, the shady stock trades, the never ending vacations at his own properties, the plane deal and much, much more.
No whataboutisms or anonymous downvotes, I’m genuinely curious why people continue to support him.
Ultimately, in a democracy, legitimacy really boils down to how much people are willing to tolerate, and that’s a very malleable metric, adjusted through fear, greed, hope, and all of the deceptions as well as legitimate plans that contribute to those motivations.
The people that I know that support him tend to have simplistic worldviews, and largely see him as a wrecking ball destroying what they were previously dissatisfied with. I suppose that’s not too far off, actually. It’s kind of like “giant meteorite for 2028” vibes, except they mean it.
Notably, the only people who wish for a political devolution are ones who haven’t lived through one. This doesn’t end well.
I living in a Republican part of the country, I think they believe power is its own morality.
A God that murders people because his feelings got hurt while demanding no one murder, a husband beats his wife and kids because he wasn't respected - these are valid in their moral framework, cruel asymmetrical power structures.
There is a dominant race, a dominant gender, and a dominant country in their view. Laws exist only to control the weak.
These people love Trump because he represents the slave owning, male-dominated, terrorist rebels that form the myth of who we are as a nation. His corruption and enrichment is why they love him.
Trump is almost amoral. It’s why he can’t understand at a basic level why his corruption would even be considered a scandal at all. In his mind, of course I’m using the presidency to enrich myself, my family, and my friends; that’s the whole point of gaining power. Of course I’m selling presidential pardons for cash, what’s the point of getting access to that power if I don’t sell my access to it.
I noticed the same patterns in my religious family. I live in a largely secular country, and the only people I know who talk down on “other people” all claim to be religious.
People are really bad at acknowledging a mistake so they rather double down. It's way past anything rational, it's a cult. Doesn't matter what the leader/party does, it's always okay.
Ape-brained tribalism. Apparently many humans just operate without standards & principles, whether from incompetence or personal benefit. Good luck fixing that.
Integrity not to burn down the system and/or enrich themselves? All of them: Biden, Obama, Bush43, Clinton, Bush41, etc (maybe Nixon the least). If Hillary Clinton or Harris would were elected they would have been as well.
You may be disagree with their policies, and think perhaps they're helping certain special interest groups, but has anyone tried to enrich themselves while in office (versus book deals and speaking fees once they're out)?
> Let's say we got rid of Trump, but then who is going to be the alternative in your opinion?
You seem to be using the "they're all as bad as eachother" argument. But previous US presidents haven't used their office for enrichment on this scale - and so it seems likely that there are alternative potential presidents who would behave with integrity and dignity.
But isn't that the case? They are all as bad and corrupt in their own merit. Coming back to the original question, do you have anyone concrete in mind that can be the alternative to Trump?
Has any other president fired the the FBI directory because he wouldn't swear personal loyalty to him (like Trump did Comey)? Did any other president try to do a (self) coup?
You may disagree with their policies (and even values), but would have anyone else tried to do an end-run around the Constitution? Pence went through with the 2020 election certification even when people were literally calling him for to be lynched.
The Boeing wag given to the US government. Not to Trump personally. It's stated explicitly in the wikipedia link you provided.
> Any Democratic candidate, including Harris and Clinton. With GOPers: Pence, Cruz, Rubio, Kasich, DeSantis, etc.
So you're fine with any other crook, but not Trump. Got it.
Further, wikipedia is not a credible source link in-case you didn't know. Anyone can edit the pages there and somethings are verified and sometime once could even make up facts and link to fake articles.
Had you ever been to a college and used wikipedia link as a source reference when writing a paper you would've known. But I guess for you it's just asking from some probabilistic token generator I guess.
I read you argue in favour of far-right German anti-immigration politics a few days ago, in which you admitted living in .de, now you're saying that there is no one better than Trump for US citizens?
How would you know and why would you have such a strong opinion?
Do you also happen to astroturf rightoid politics on Twitter by any chance? I heard it's a common pastime.
you seemed so obsessed with me. I simply asked a question. Also I'm entitled to have my opinions. I don't even know what astroturf rightoid means.
Also your framing of "I read you argue in favour of far-right German anti-immigration politics a few days ago" intended to discredit my question, like would it be valid only the questions came from far-left antifa supporters?
Antifa is an American political construct to rally the neofascists behind. In Europe it just means ‘antifascist’, and is still something to be proud of.
> But anyone with a decent amount of dignity, humility, empathy and confidence will do.
Is that enough though? That's more like saying running a country based on vibes. One could argue that a person needs strong leadership, someone putting national interest above else and work for the interest of the people that elected the person.
If you think about it the president or any other elected person, their whole job is to serve people. Do what the people voted that person to do by putting aside all personal preferences, belief and ideologies. In that regards, I wonder dignity, humility, empathy would have anything to do with governing
Its really interesting how he was able NOT to stumble upon these! My high-stake bet still is: All of the "major people around a distinct circle" are highly involved, meaning: Lot of politicians/gov people etc.
They will try to resist until last breath to not disclose them.
Why more Gov people and not Billionaires: While a few Bilns maybe amongst there, the thing is as Billionaire you can already affort anything everybody wants, but a Gov person cant do that, even if the person is rich/wealthy
People like to forget that Elon Musk also wanted to party on the island. And that he lied about that before the email came out.
These people have enablers everywhere. It’s exactly like the abuse in the catholic church. The people in power can’t do without the enablers that make excuses for them.
I think any HN'er who previously voted republican has experienced enough disappointment; I doubt there would be anyone left.
The most important point for every political faction however is to realize that the problems aren't solved when the current president steps down. The real power that pushes the agenda rest in the hands of a loosely connected network of 'think tanks', religious organizations, tech billionaires and media moguls. They are hidden from the public discourse, simply because they are able to manage it, and as such are a formidable opponent.
I don't think it's OK, but it's semi-understandable given the lawfare undertaken by Democrats after his first term.
I would say that despite whatever pardons (which I believe can only be federal, not state?), he pro-actively gives himself and colleagues, family etc when he leaves office he will be spending the rest of his life fighting spurious court case after court case, none of which will be cheap.
In that regard, having massive personal wealth makes some kind of sense.
You're going to have a very uphill battle making a case that he's making America stronger in any commonly held definition of the word. Partisanship is a hell of a drug, man...
This is just the amount we know about. How about all the stuff we don’t know?
Double if you include the family
Self defeating question, if we don't know about it we don't know.
Rhetorical question, not really self defeating.
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When the leader of a political party is misaligned with the total social benefit to the society, the story as old as stories themselves
[dead]
It’s astonishing how America has been led to this point where a certified con artist frauds is in charge of the world empire of lies. The only real silver lining seems to be that he is ending his vile and pathetic life of fraud and criminality and abuse by exposing his putrid character as he is unraveling America in a likely irreversible way.
President Genocidal Rapist Pederast Rug Pull, the last President of the fake American empire of lies, the emperor with no clothes, exposing his vile and disgusting true self.
Is really rather epic, like a story one would imagine has been made up about a historical figure if we hadn’t witnessed it all unfold in real time.
[flagged]
If sarcasm, this is very funny.
After 6 years of this drama I fail to see the fun in sarcastic comments that remind me of Poe’s law.
I hate to break it to you but this drama has been going on for 10+ years. Remember birther conspiracies?
I would love to hear from HN republicans why they think this amount of self enrichment and corruption is okay. Add to this all the paid-for pardons, the shady stock trades, the never ending vacations at his own properties, the plane deal and much, much more.
No whataboutisms or anonymous downvotes, I’m genuinely curious why people continue to support him.
Ultimately, in a democracy, legitimacy really boils down to how much people are willing to tolerate, and that’s a very malleable metric, adjusted through fear, greed, hope, and all of the deceptions as well as legitimate plans that contribute to those motivations.
The people that I know that support him tend to have simplistic worldviews, and largely see him as a wrecking ball destroying what they were previously dissatisfied with. I suppose that’s not too far off, actually. It’s kind of like “giant meteorite for 2028” vibes, except they mean it.
Notably, the only people who wish for a political devolution are ones who haven’t lived through one. This doesn’t end well.
I living in a Republican part of the country, I think they believe power is its own morality.
A God that murders people because his feelings got hurt while demanding no one murder, a husband beats his wife and kids because he wasn't respected - these are valid in their moral framework, cruel asymmetrical power structures.
There is a dominant race, a dominant gender, and a dominant country in their view. Laws exist only to control the weak.
These people love Trump because he represents the slave owning, male-dominated, terrorist rebels that form the myth of who we are as a nation. His corruption and enrichment is why they love him.
Trump is almost amoral. It’s why he can’t understand at a basic level why his corruption would even be considered a scandal at all. In his mind, of course I’m using the presidency to enrich myself, my family, and my friends; that’s the whole point of gaining power. Of course I’m selling presidential pardons for cash, what’s the point of getting access to that power if I don’t sell my access to it.
I noticed the same patterns in my religious family. I live in a largely secular country, and the only people I know who talk down on “other people” all claim to be religious.
People are really bad at acknowledging a mistake so they rather double down. It's way past anything rational, it's a cult. Doesn't matter what the leader/party does, it's always okay.
Ape-brained tribalism. Apparently many humans just operate without standards & principles, whether from incompetence or personal benefit. Good luck fixing that.
Let's say we got rid of Trump, but then who is going to be the alternative in your opinion?
how about anyone else with an ounce of integrity?
Lol. Who was the last president with integrity?
> Who was the last president with integrity?
Integrity not to burn down the system and/or enrich themselves? All of them: Biden, Obama, Bush43, Clinton, Bush41, etc (maybe Nixon the least). If Hillary Clinton or Harris would were elected they would have been as well.
You may be disagree with their policies, and think perhaps they're helping certain special interest groups, but has anyone tried to enrich themselves while in office (versus book deals and speaking fees once they're out)?
The question was about integrity, not enrichment.
*more integrity. that would make anyone i guess more qualified
> Let's say we got rid of Trump, but then who is going to be the alternative in your opinion?
You seem to be using the "they're all as bad as eachother" argument. But previous US presidents haven't used their office for enrichment on this scale - and so it seems likely that there are alternative potential presidents who would behave with integrity and dignity.
> "they're all as bad as eachother"
But isn't that the case? They are all as bad and corrupt in their own merit. Coming back to the original question, do you have anyone concrete in mind that can be the alternative to Trump?
> But isn't that the case?
No, it isn't. There are people of good will and integrity in US politics. As there are is almost all countries.
"They're all as bad as eachother" is just a lazy excuse for cynicism and inaction.
> There are people of good will and integrity in US politics. As there are is almost all countries.
Yep, and over the last year I’ve watched them get slaughtered in primaries.
> But isn't that the case?
No.
Has any other president fired the the FBI directory because he wouldn't swear personal loyalty to him (like Trump did Comey)? Did any other president try to do a (self) coup?
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capito...
Did any other president receive hundreds of millions of dollars in value as a gift?
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_VC-25B_Bridge
> Coming back to the original question, do you have anyone concrete in mind that can be the alternative to Trump?
Any Democratic candidate, including Harris and Clinton. With GOPers: Pence, Cruz, Rubio, Kasich, DeSantis, etc.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Republican_Party_presiden...
You may disagree with their policies (and even values), but would have anyone else tried to do an end-run around the Constitution? Pence went through with the 2020 election certification even when people were literally calling him for to be lynched.
Examples where former presidents firing people for lack of loyalty, here is a list of them (https://washingtonian.com/2017/07/03/brief-history-president...). Spoiler: Trump is not the only president that did that
The Boeing wag given to the US government. Not to Trump personally. It's stated explicitly in the wikipedia link you provided.
> Any Democratic candidate, including Harris and Clinton. With GOPers: Pence, Cruz, Rubio, Kasich, DeSantis, etc.
So you're fine with any other crook, but not Trump. Got it.
Further, wikipedia is not a credible source link in-case you didn't know. Anyone can edit the pages there and somethings are verified and sometime once could even make up facts and link to fake articles.
> Further, wikipedia is not a credible source link in-case you didn't know.
@grok what is a credible source?
/s of course
Had you ever been to a college and used wikipedia link as a source reference when writing a paper you would've known. But I guess for you it's just asking from some probabilistic token generator I guess.
I read you argue in favour of far-right German anti-immigration politics a few days ago, in which you admitted living in .de, now you're saying that there is no one better than Trump for US citizens?
How would you know and why would you have such a strong opinion?
Do you also happen to astroturf rightoid politics on Twitter by any chance? I heard it's a common pastime.
you seemed so obsessed with me. I simply asked a question. Also I'm entitled to have my opinions. I don't even know what astroturf rightoid means.
Also your framing of "I read you argue in favour of far-right German anti-immigration politics a few days ago" intended to discredit my question, like would it be valid only the questions came from far-left antifa supporters?
Antifa is an American political construct to rally the neofascists behind. In Europe it just means ‘antifascist’, and is still something to be proud of.
I specifically requested no whataboutisms.
There is no whataboutisms in my reply
another candidate that has expressed willingness to lead. Kamala Harris for example.
Kamala Harris? you have to be kidding
As a European, I’d say Bernie Sanders would be your best candidate.
But anyone with a decent amount of dignity, humility, empathy and confidence will do.
> But anyone with a decent amount of dignity, humility, empathy and confidence will do.
Is that enough though? That's more like saying running a country based on vibes. One could argue that a person needs strong leadership, someone putting national interest above else and work for the interest of the people that elected the person.
If you think about it the president or any other elected person, their whole job is to serve people. Do what the people voted that person to do by putting aside all personal preferences, belief and ideologies. In that regards, I wonder dignity, humility, empathy would have anything to do with governing
+1 for Bernie Sanders!
You forgot to mention the Epstein files
Its really interesting how he was able NOT to stumble upon these! My high-stake bet still is: All of the "major people around a distinct circle" are highly involved, meaning: Lot of politicians/gov people etc.
They will try to resist until last breath to not disclose them.
Why more Gov people and not Billionaires: While a few Bilns maybe amongst there, the thing is as Billionaire you can already affort anything everybody wants, but a Gov person cant do that, even if the person is rich/wealthy
People like to forget that Elon Musk also wanted to party on the island. And that he lied about that before the email came out.
These people have enablers everywhere. It’s exactly like the abuse in the catholic church. The people in power can’t do without the enablers that make excuses for them.
I think any HN'er who previously voted republican has experienced enough disappointment; I doubt there would be anyone left.
The most important point for every political faction however is to realize that the problems aren't solved when the current president steps down. The real power that pushes the agenda rest in the hands of a loosely connected network of 'think tanks', religious organizations, tech billionaires and media moguls. They are hidden from the public discourse, simply because they are able to manage it, and as such are a formidable opponent.
> whataboutisms
Not a Trump supporter but from the ones I've spoken to it's mostly this. Something like, "They all do it, he's just honest about it."
[flagged]
Why are you assuming this is corruption?
I don't think it's OK, but it's semi-understandable given the lawfare undertaken by Democrats after his first term.
I would say that despite whatever pardons (which I believe can only be federal, not state?), he pro-actively gives himself and colleagues, family etc when he leaves office he will be spending the rest of his life fighting spurious court case after court case, none of which will be cheap.
In that regard, having massive personal wealth makes some kind of sense.
//edit// deleted the alleged "Whataboutism"
> No whataboutisms
Couldn't even follow the ask in your first sentence.
That's only the last sentence, and I've deleted it for you. Why not engage with the thrust of the argument?
What about, how the ask is completely nonsensical and incoherent?
It also came with a request for no-downvotes... What's next? A request for only responses that agree with me?
Here's my request: Upvotes only. Please don't respond.
Whataboutism is what's known as a "fallacy" in debate. Wikipedia has a nice list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it's "nonsensical and incoherent"
It wasn't my post, but I read it as "please don't downvote the answers"
what's wrong with that if he's making America strong? well-deserved I guess?
I wonder if you are, maybe accidentally, implying that any president before has made America weaker?
I'd argue that actively trying to make enemies out of friends is in no way going to make America stronger. Quite the opposite.
You're going to have a very uphill battle making a case that he's making America stronger in any commonly held definition of the word. Partisanship is a hell of a drug, man...
Please explain / define how America is "strong" today?
I think fundamentally there is a difference in the definition of “America” at play here too.
He has certainly made gas prices stronger
And US lack of munitions stronger.
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Trump is single handedly doing all of the things, with nobody backing or should I say black-mailing him.
I think he wrote all of those executive orders that he signed on his first week too.
This orange guy is so bad, it's all his fault that everything is happening. Let's keep focusing on the orange lightning rod.