Two Chinese EV here in Brazil. One BYD Seal for me and one Geely EX5 for wife and son.
They're amazing super quality cars. Cheap maintenance. There's no other can compete for quality + price. We was explored for decades from ocidental companies. No more.
Out of curiosity - how exactly does BRICS affect the entire situation? I don't know much about how it's structured and what it brings to member countries.
I'm asking just because BYD is building plants and selling cars in Europe too, despite EU's tariffs on Chinese cars.
Do you think Brazil wouldn't be an interesting enough market for Chinese automakers without BRICS?
In the UK there's been a large increase as well as they're rock solid for a lower price. Am I odd for not considering one due to security concerns? I just can't wrap my head around buying what is essentially these days a smartphone on wheels from a hostile state that is probably sending data back to China. Car privacy these days is already bad enough.
Of course the simple answer is don't be hostile to PRC and PRC won't be hostile back. If security sharing concern (read FVEY circumventing domestic security laws), then bring Huawei back and I'm sure PRC, a surveillance state would be happy to spy on UK citizens on MI5 behalf just like the NSA. Or if you want to be spied on less, get a PRC car who are more likely to limit reporting to your home gov on strict lawful interception requirements... plus they literally won't have as much compute as US to track your everything, and whatever little compute they have, they're wasting tokens on microdrama videos. Like all those future US data centers going to be doing something. This comment 43% satire.
For the average person in the US or UK, this is probably an improvement over having a domestic car brand doing the surveillance and funneling the data to agencies and politicians that actually have incentives to infringe on your rights or crack down on you for political activism that goes against the current regime in power.
> from a hostile state that is probably sending data back to China.
In terms of data privacy which state isn't hostile? I'd like an EV which is not connected, but out of available choices, I don't care if it's China or the US or someone else.
I probably even prefer China since they usually collect data but not on a personal level. It feels like the US products say "link to all accounts, tell us everything about you", while the Chinese products are monitoring things in a more generic way.
I own a BYD, in another minor western aligned country..
I assume that all players are spying on me. Americans, Chinese, they are effectively the same. I just comfort myself by telling myself that if they both have my data then there is less leverage over me overall.
This would happen everywhere where they shout "free market " from the rooftops would stop import tariffs.looking at Germany and the usa, specifically.
In Spain, they dont do that and adaption and dealerships for Chinese EVs is taking off nicely, I ask every single owner I can if they're happy with the service and the cars and all of them have never been happier. Subjective, yes, but I welcome the Chinese cars and free markets:-)
That’s cool until the EU decides that they’ve had enough of poor people driving their own cars and introduce tariffs or outright ban them. Then, how are you going to have them repaired? Maybe they even make it so that you can’t pass inspection with a Chinese car.
When I order a Uber I just want a BYD… They should add the option in the app. Using the "Comfort" option increases the chance to get one, but I still get very bad/old cars occasionally.
Or maybe BYD could just start its own ridesharing service.
BYD is available in both South Korea and Japan and making inroads. The biggest barrier is a deep distrust of Chinese brands, not tariffs, plus in Japan's case favorable tax treatment of "kei" (light) cars, a Japan-only segment that BYD has just entered.
Exactly the countries where brand loyalty has a culture status. If you let go of that, there are only a few sensible economic options left, BYD high on that list.
You mean the countries that still have native automotive industries and an understanding of the strategic value of heavy industry in both economic and martial terms?
Assuming the blue wave continues for 2 more years, I've been wondering if the Democrats are going to open up America to Chinese EVs as a way to punish Elon for his engagement with the GOP
US car makers can be cheaper too if they put workers in slave-like conditions, even aside the Chinese govt subsidies and investment.
One example from Brazil since that's the topic:
> Brazilian prosecutors have filed a lawsuit accusing electric carmaker BYD of human trafficking and keeping its workers in “slavery-like conditions” in its biggest market outside China.
> The investigation found the Chinese workers were brought to Brazil under false pretences and their visas did not match their jobs.
> Prosecutors said the workers were found working in “slavery-live conditions” and with "minimum comfort and hygiene”, calling them victims of international human trafficking
> The workers were forced to sleep on beds that did not have mattresses and as many as 30 people shared a bathroom, MPT alleged.
What kind of vehicles are people replacing with BYDs? I always assumed Brazilians drove mostly "legacy" VW or Nissans, but I looked at VW's Brazilian website and you all seem to have most of the same vehicles that are available in Europe and North America, including the ID.4!
Funny because I live in Hungary, the country with the highest VAT in EU (27%), and BYD is not the cheapest at all. Neither in the EV and ICE (hybrid) category
some models also charge much faster, and go further than Western alternatives
cheap, fast, good, its a rare moment to pick all three and the market is
most reservations about EVs are based on range anxiety, charging time and cost. only people with a certain level of advantage will pay to experience inconvenience, and that issue disintegrates at a certain threshold for a much broader population
As usual, it's a debate where I'm not interested in either side. I don't want huge, over-sized, over-luxurious, over-priced American cars. I don't want somehow-even-more-luxurious, tracking hell, iPad hell Chinese cars.
can you explain why is tracking an issue? Google/Android and Apple both do live tracking and Brazilians seems to be fine with using both US made and China made smartphones and cars.
Whats the real argument for a Brazilian, why they should be concerned with this ludicrous claims from USA: "muh China is tracking you going to Copacabana beach. Stop buying Chinese EV for $20k, buy Tesla for $60k instead and you will be safe!!!!11"
With the Republicans thrown out enmass last night maybe we can go back to the full switch over to becoming an electro state again, and leave this oil and gas bullshit in the past. I’m still not OK with opening our doors to BYD, but I want our own manufacturers to come up to speed and to build out massive charging infrastructure.
The irony of course is that Trump had a mandate to inflict some tariff pain in the name of rebuilding American manufacturing, and managed to completely spaff that up the wall with non-strategic and idiotic tariffs on friends and neighbours.
Two Chinese EV here in Brazil. One BYD Seal for me and one Geely EX5 for wife and son.
They're amazing super quality cars. Cheap maintenance. There's no other can compete for quality + price. We was explored for decades from ocidental companies. No more.
Thanks GOD for BRICS.
Out of curiosity - how exactly does BRICS affect the entire situation? I don't know much about how it's structured and what it brings to member countries.
I'm asking just because BYD is building plants and selling cars in Europe too, despite EU's tariffs on Chinese cars.
Do you think Brazil wouldn't be an interesting enough market for Chinese automakers without BRICS?
In the UK there's been a large increase as well as they're rock solid for a lower price. Am I odd for not considering one due to security concerns? I just can't wrap my head around buying what is essentially these days a smartphone on wheels from a hostile state that is probably sending data back to China. Car privacy these days is already bad enough.
Of course the simple answer is don't be hostile to PRC and PRC won't be hostile back. If security sharing concern (read FVEY circumventing domestic security laws), then bring Huawei back and I'm sure PRC, a surveillance state would be happy to spy on UK citizens on MI5 behalf just like the NSA. Or if you want to be spied on less, get a PRC car who are more likely to limit reporting to your home gov on strict lawful interception requirements... plus they literally won't have as much compute as US to track your everything, and whatever little compute they have, they're wasting tokens on microdrama videos. Like all those future US data centers going to be doing something. This comment 43% satire.
For the average person in the US or UK, this is probably an improvement over having a domestic car brand doing the surveillance and funneling the data to agencies and politicians that actually have incentives to infringe on your rights or crack down on you for political activism that goes against the current regime in power.
> from a hostile state that is probably sending data back to China.
In terms of data privacy which state isn't hostile? I'd like an EV which is not connected, but out of available choices, I don't care if it's China or the US or someone else.
I probably even prefer China since they usually collect data but not on a personal level. It feels like the US products say "link to all accounts, tell us everything about you", while the Chinese products are monitoring things in a more generic way.
I own a BYD, in another minor western aligned country.. I assume that all players are spying on me. Americans, Chinese, they are effectively the same. I just comfort myself by telling myself that if they both have my data then there is less leverage over me overall.
As opposed to the US/UK/EU company scooping up all your data?
That's what most of us in the rest of the world feel about American cars and services. At least now, you split some and send your car data to China.
USA under Biden banned Chinese cars for exactly those reasons.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/fact-sheet-safegua...
[dead]
This would happen everywhere where they shout "free market " from the rooftops would stop import tariffs.looking at Germany and the usa, specifically.
In Spain, they dont do that and adaption and dealerships for Chinese EVs is taking off nicely, I ask every single owner I can if they're happy with the service and the cars and all of them have never been happier. Subjective, yes, but I welcome the Chinese cars and free markets:-)
Yeah the car industry an industry notable for being free market with no subsidies whatsoever.
That’s cool until the EU decides that they’ve had enough of poor people driving their own cars and introduce tariffs or outright ban them. Then, how are you going to have them repaired? Maybe they even make it so that you can’t pass inspection with a Chinese car.
Spain and Germany have the same import tariff rates for everything. (Obviously?)
[dead]
When I order a Uber I just want a BYD… They should add the option in the app. Using the "Comfort" option increases the chance to get one, but I still get very bad/old cars occasionally.
Or maybe BYD could just start its own ridesharing service.
BYD taking over most of the world aside from the United States, Korea, Germany and Japan.
BYD is available in both South Korea and Japan and making inroads. The biggest barrier is a deep distrust of Chinese brands, not tariffs, plus in Japan's case favorable tax treatment of "kei" (light) cars, a Japan-only segment that BYD has just entered.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/chinese-evs-win-o...
You forgot India.
The thing all these countries have in common is their own Automobile sector which is a huge part of the economy that they need to protect.
Germany is being taken over, too. Perhaps slower than other markets but sales of Chinese cars are booming.
Exactly the countries where brand loyalty has a culture status. If you let go of that, there are only a few sensible economic options left, BYD high on that list.
You mean the countries that still have native automotive industries and an understanding of the strategic value of heavy industry in both economic and martial terms?
Assuming the blue wave continues for 2 more years, I've been wondering if the Democrats are going to open up America to Chinese EVs as a way to punish Elon for his engagement with the GOP
US car makers can be cheaper too if they put workers in slave-like conditions, even aside the Chinese govt subsidies and investment.
One example from Brazil since that's the topic:
> Brazilian prosecutors have filed a lawsuit accusing electric carmaker BYD of human trafficking and keeping its workers in “slavery-like conditions” in its biggest market outside China.
> The investigation found the Chinese workers were brought to Brazil under false pretences and their visas did not match their jobs.
> Prosecutors said the workers were found working in “slavery-live conditions” and with "minimum comfort and hygiene”, calling them victims of international human trafficking
> The workers were forced to sleep on beds that did not have mattresses and as many as 30 people shared a bathroom, MPT alleged.
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/china/byd-china-ev-sued-b...
That’s what happens when the state intentionally heavily subsidized an industry to destroy existing competition
who would have thought people would flock to less costly alternatives (I'm brazilian and have tons of friends that have bought BYD models recently)
How are they being received generally in Brazil?
What kind of vehicles are people replacing with BYDs? I always assumed Brazilians drove mostly "legacy" VW or Nissans, but I looked at VW's Brazilian website and you all seem to have most of the same vehicles that are available in Europe and North America, including the ID.4!
Funny because I live in Hungary, the country with the highest VAT in EU (27%), and BYD is not the cheapest at all. Neither in the EV and ICE (hybrid) category
some models also charge much faster, and go further than Western alternatives
cheap, fast, good, its a rare moment to pick all three and the market is
most reservations about EVs are based on range anxiety, charging time and cost. only people with a certain level of advantage will pay to experience inconvenience, and that issue disintegrates at a certain threshold for a much broader population
what are the high cost ones?
I live in a very small city in Brazil, BYD is a very common brand here.
As usual, it's a debate where I'm not interested in either side. I don't want huge, over-sized, over-luxurious, over-priced American cars. I don't want somehow-even-more-luxurious, tracking hell, iPad hell Chinese cars.
can you explain why is tracking an issue? Google/Android and Apple both do live tracking and Brazilians seems to be fine with using both US made and China made smartphones and cars.
Whats the real argument for a Brazilian, why they should be concerned with this ludicrous claims from USA: "muh China is tracking you going to Copacabana beach. Stop buying Chinese EV for $20k, buy Tesla for $60k instead and you will be safe!!!!11"
Not sure what Brazil's total EV numbers are , but Germany's total EV share is 37%, which is more than gas and diesel,combined.
article that says and is titled like that :)
https://electrek.co/2026/11/04/germany-electric-car-sales-re...
With the Republicans thrown out enmass last night maybe we can go back to the full switch over to becoming an electro state again, and leave this oil and gas bullshit in the past. I’m still not OK with opening our doors to BYD, but I want our own manufacturers to come up to speed and to build out massive charging infrastructure.
The irony of course is that Trump had a mandate to inflict some tariff pain in the name of rebuilding American manufacturing, and managed to completely spaff that up the wall with non-strategic and idiotic tariffs on friends and neighbours.