The "Sacred Alcohol of Stamina to Van Buren Coffee" part illustrates why I hold those "localization" attempts in contempt. "I have unanimously decided this name/sentence/reference is boring and I'm going to change it to make it 'more interesting'".
Just translate the thing. If you add random references that weren't there it's going to alter the discourse around the game that only knows of the localization dramatically.
You may say this sounds ungrateful, but those people altering the original works are ones setting the tone of the entire Western discourse of the games they re altering. People are going to talk about the localized version and any change introduced will become part of how it's perceived and discussed. This can include both accidental and intentional changes that completely change the tone, setting or relationships of the characters within. Like the infamous DeJap localization of Tales of Phantasia that made a character particularly horny, and that intentional change has stuck even after more serious official translations came out because many people only played that altered version.
I can understand altering stuff for censorship reasons even, but those changes made to make things "more interesting" are completely one-sided fanfic tier stuff and add links that weren't there. I've found more people than you'd believe that think Castlevania is supposed to be in the same world as Lord of the Rings because the localizations renamed several items to LotR references for no good reason.
This is a very common sentiment among laymen talking about translation, but it demonstrates a very fundamental misunderstanding of what language is and what translation achieves. Oftentimes there is no way to 1-to-1 translate a language as if you're translating between Python and Ruby; more often, translating a sentence to two different languages (like Japanese and English) is more akin to translating between Python and C. There are too many ways to get the point across and there is almost never an obvious direction to translate "directly". For example, when one uses a quirky phrase in English (say, "it's raining cats and dogs") there are two main ways to translate that to any other language (1) you'll use a similar phrase in the target language that conveys the meaning (which almost certainly won't involve "cats" and "dogs" but may involve other objects even potentially pop culture references), or (2) you'll just write that "it's raining a lot". From a laymen point of view (2) seems more appropriate because the translator doesn't have to "invent" something that doesn't exist in the original text and make an artistic choice, but systematic application of this makes the translated text very dry and unidiomatic in the language. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, when the original author wrote "it's raining cats and dogs" in English as opposed to "it's raining a lot" they meant to signal semantic information that'd be lost if we removed the phrase altogether. This could be emphasis, casual-speak, signaling damage caused by rain etc... So, often you need to support the target text with quirky phrases that are in use in the target language.
I know nothing about this Xanadu translation or video game translations in general. But the sentiment expressed is very naive. Translation is an art form in an of itself, and oftentimes good translation has to diverge from the original text quite a bit to be a good translation, especially if the two languages are very different languages.
But which thing? Language transmits information, intent, tone, sound and many other layers. Usually, there is no way to transport all of it to the target language, and the translator must choose what to sacrifice.
Japanese prose doesn't intend to be boring, and its target audience isn't bored by it. If you translate it in a way that sounds boring to an English audience, you aren't maintaining the intent of the author.
The famous example is Tina from FF6, a name exotic and exciting for a Japanese audience, but commonplace and boring for Westerners. Keeping such a word means missing its point.
I don't think this is really all that ambiguous. The 'thing' being the intent of the original author. Renaming Tina to Terra makes perfect sense in the context you mentioned. Renaming 'Sacred Alcohol of Stamina' to 'Van Buren Coffee' is a complete butchery of a translation done for somebody to be able to show how witty they are by adding a reference that basically nobody will get, and is still a butchery even when you know the reference.
This change is contradictory and nonsensical because alcohol plays a central role in Shadow Over Innsmouth, so the original item being an alcohol makes more sense. Also, this ignores the possibility that there might be other influences on the work, and that maybe the original name was intentional for other reasons. Or maybe the game was just poorly made and this is just covering over that.
The more infamous changes of older games at least reflected the localization standards of their era, and that the changes were done out of commercial or technical necessity. For this one the translator basically just admitted that they were bored.
It was giving me really strong nostalgia but I wasn’t able to place what exactly for. I haven’t played this before but it definitely evoked something. I don’t think Zelda… maybe memories of playing Golden Sun.
For the dialog, it’s ok because the whole screen darkens but the stats screen while walking around gets really busy with all the colours flowing around.
If you’re a fan of this, you might like Apple’s Liquid Glass designs.
I remember people coming up with transparent backgrounds for programs writen in VB6. The idea has been around for a while, but I guess there is a reason why it didn't take off.
The quickly moving colours triggers some people. Similar to flashing lights but less extreme. I’ve heard them call it “ants moving across the screen”. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a good design though, just that it isn’t universal. If an app/game /os can only have one theme, it must be universal.
The "Sacred Alcohol of Stamina to Van Buren Coffee" part illustrates why I hold those "localization" attempts in contempt. "I have unanimously decided this name/sentence/reference is boring and I'm going to change it to make it 'more interesting'".
Just translate the thing. If you add random references that weren't there it's going to alter the discourse around the game that only knows of the localization dramatically.
You may say this sounds ungrateful, but those people altering the original works are ones setting the tone of the entire Western discourse of the games they re altering. People are going to talk about the localized version and any change introduced will become part of how it's perceived and discussed. This can include both accidental and intentional changes that completely change the tone, setting or relationships of the characters within. Like the infamous DeJap localization of Tales of Phantasia that made a character particularly horny, and that intentional change has stuck even after more serious official translations came out because many people only played that altered version.
I can understand altering stuff for censorship reasons even, but those changes made to make things "more interesting" are completely one-sided fanfic tier stuff and add links that weren't there. I've found more people than you'd believe that think Castlevania is supposed to be in the same world as Lord of the Rings because the localizations renamed several items to LotR references for no good reason.
> Just translate the thing.
This is a very common sentiment among laymen talking about translation, but it demonstrates a very fundamental misunderstanding of what language is and what translation achieves. Oftentimes there is no way to 1-to-1 translate a language as if you're translating between Python and Ruby; more often, translating a sentence to two different languages (like Japanese and English) is more akin to translating between Python and C. There are too many ways to get the point across and there is almost never an obvious direction to translate "directly". For example, when one uses a quirky phrase in English (say, "it's raining cats and dogs") there are two main ways to translate that to any other language (1) you'll use a similar phrase in the target language that conveys the meaning (which almost certainly won't involve "cats" and "dogs" but may involve other objects even potentially pop culture references), or (2) you'll just write that "it's raining a lot". From a laymen point of view (2) seems more appropriate because the translator doesn't have to "invent" something that doesn't exist in the original text and make an artistic choice, but systematic application of this makes the translated text very dry and unidiomatic in the language. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, when the original author wrote "it's raining cats and dogs" in English as opposed to "it's raining a lot" they meant to signal semantic information that'd be lost if we removed the phrase altogether. This could be emphasis, casual-speak, signaling damage caused by rain etc... So, often you need to support the target text with quirky phrases that are in use in the target language.
I know nothing about this Xanadu translation or video game translations in general. But the sentiment expressed is very naive. Translation is an art form in an of itself, and oftentimes good translation has to diverge from the original text quite a bit to be a good translation, especially if the two languages are very different languages.
> Just translate the thing.
But which thing? Language transmits information, intent, tone, sound and many other layers. Usually, there is no way to transport all of it to the target language, and the translator must choose what to sacrifice.
Japanese prose doesn't intend to be boring, and its target audience isn't bored by it. If you translate it in a way that sounds boring to an English audience, you aren't maintaining the intent of the author.
The famous example is Tina from FF6, a name exotic and exciting for a Japanese audience, but commonplace and boring for Westerners. Keeping such a word means missing its point.
I don't think this is really all that ambiguous. The 'thing' being the intent of the original author. Renaming Tina to Terra makes perfect sense in the context you mentioned. Renaming 'Sacred Alcohol of Stamina' to 'Van Buren Coffee' is a complete butchery of a translation done for somebody to be able to show how witty they are by adding a reference that basically nobody will get, and is still a butchery even when you know the reference.
This change is contradictory and nonsensical because alcohol plays a central role in Shadow Over Innsmouth, so the original item being an alcohol makes more sense. Also, this ignores the possibility that there might be other influences on the work, and that maybe the original name was intentional for other reasons. Or maybe the game was just poorly made and this is just covering over that.
The more infamous changes of older games at least reflected the localization standards of their era, and that the changes were done out of commercial or technical necessity. For this one the translator basically just admitted that they were bored.
I spent way too much time watching the video of gameplay. It looks very good.
It was giving me really strong nostalgia but I wasn’t able to place what exactly for. I haven’t played this before but it definitely evoked something. I don’t think Zelda… maybe memories of playing Golden Sun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuz6nFfAXHc
I like the see-through UI.
For the dialog, it’s ok because the whole screen darkens but the stats screen while walking around gets really busy with all the colours flowing around.
If you’re a fan of this, you might like Apple’s Liquid Glass designs.
I remember people coming up with transparent backgrounds for programs writen in VB6. The idea has been around for a while, but I guess there is a reason why it didn't take off.
The quickly moving colours triggers some people. Similar to flashing lights but less extreme. I’ve heard them call it “ants moving across the screen”. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a good design though, just that it isn’t universal. If an app/game /os can only have one theme, it must be universal.